Tribute & Gifts

Scouse Gits · November 29, 1999, 10:20

How do I get them?

I notice that several posters seem to gain serious income from gifts & tribute, but I can find no rhyme or reason to the availability of such handouts. What are the necessary criteria? How do you avoid getting declarations of war instead?
Bemused, Scouse Git[1]

DaveV · November 29, 1999, 11:34

For tribute:

1. Be on the same continent as an AI.

2. Be 'supreme' in power.

If you can satisfy these two conditions, you should be able to squeeze the AI for everything he's worth. This works great on small maps, where you'll usually find most (or all) of the AIs sharing your continent.

Establishing an embassy is helpful, so you can monitor the AIs' cash positions. Ask for tribute whenever an AI has more than 50 gold. Keep asking every turn if they refuse; eventually, they'll either pay up or declare war. After they declare war, they'll usually beg for peace within a couple turns. Often, you can refuse a cease fire and they'll pay you for one. Or, you can use their declaration of war as the impetus to go on the offensive against them.

Gifts are another topic entirely, which I'll leave to a more peaceable player.

Havelock Vetinari · November 29, 1999, 11:38

Occasionally I have been offered gifts by the AI, rather than just threatening to not kick their arse in exchange for loot. Sometimes if you refuse these they return with a better gift, like money and science as opposed to just money. Sometimes they declare war. But thanx to Mr UN and Ms Womans Suffrage, I don't mind that at all

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May you live in Interesting Times...

Scouse Gits · November 29, 1999, 11:40

Thanks DaveV a promprt and useful reply - now lets see if there is a peaceful version?

geofelt · November 29, 1999, 19:52

If the civ's attitude to you is hostile, you won't get any tribute, and you will get war most of the time. Look for a civ that is at least uncooperative.
Also, I don't think you have to be supreme, just more powerful than the victim.
If a civ offers you a cease fire, consider rejecting it, they will often give you gold for it. After accepting a cease fire, and getting gold, also refuse to sign a peace agreement if they have any gold left. You will likely get it also. If rejected, you can usually ask for a cease fire and peace the next turn.
What I like best is when the civ asks me to take pity on them, and they will give me all their gold and knowledge to spare them.
Getting this gold will often leave a civ with almost none, making it cheaper to bribe it's cities, even if you need to pay double to preserve your spotless reputation.

Graag · November 30, 1999, 04:09

Giving gifts to the ai is extremely handy and often underused, especially in ai.
If an ai is neutral to you, and far behind in tech and military gifts can be given to get them to trade maps. Once maps are traded they frequently reveal very useful info about other, better ais and human civs. Also this can be a useful tool to let you wipe out a weak ai quicker.

Graag

Scouse Gits · November 30, 1999, 06:25

Oh, Geofelt!

I like it! I like IT! I LIKE IT!!!

Did I say I like it?
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Scouse Git[1]

MyOlde · November 30, 1999, 14:21

Geofelt,

I've never had a civ beg me for mercy. Does this happen only on Deity? In my past couple of Emperor games I've reduced one or more civs to the capital city which I then besiege (cause I can't buy it). Even then they've never begged to be spared.

Peter Hennesy · November 30, 1999, 15:41

Only ever saw it in the tutorial with the Sioux. Never since. And Ive had a few AIS on the ropes

Be interested to know what the conditions are.

Steve Clark · November 30, 1999, 17:02

Same question from me as the last two posters. Perhaps their attitude towards you makes a difference? Since I play militaristically, I never had a civ liked me more than neutral.

BlackJack · November 30, 1999, 19:25

Ignoring the fact that I'm "tribute challenged", I think there're at least a couple of things that have to come together to be a successful bully: (1) being Supreme tends to make the other civs "uncooperative - bad for tribute and bad for trade; (2) proximity seems to help most of all - drop off a couple of units in their neighborhood and they aren't as likely to "ignore your feeble threats;" (3) being the discoverer vs. the discoveree seems to matter; (4) being willing to, and successful at, rough 'em up a bit seems to help - I think I've been successful at getting tribute from Supreme/Mighty AIs because I defeated their units in recent encounters; (5) yeah, disposition matters, as does their nature - but I think (1)-(4) mollifies the effect of both; (6) I think your reputation matters; and (7) somewhere in here, like a year ago, there's a thread - The Fine Art of Demanding Tribute(?) - where a lot of folks who sound like they really know what they're talking about go into this at length.

War4ever · November 30, 1999, 19:44

I have had the ai give me all their tech and money many times... i have notice that it happens frequently in the beginning of a game when you have destroyed a couple of their cities and refuse them when they sue for peace.... although sometimes they just declare war... stubborn fools.... it also tends to happen when a civ faces near extinction which is similar to the other description i gave.

If you strike fear in a civ they will give you everything they have to survive... at which point i just destroy them anyway... no such thing as a peace treaty with the ai.

DaveV · December 1, 1999, 01:10

My theory on tribute: you have to have more troops than the AI on his home continent (the one where his capital is). I've had incredibly weak AIs on another continent bluster and threaten me, but I never have trouble with an AI on my continent. You *can* extort tribute even if they're uncooperative - one game, I spent dozens of turns trying to goad the Chinese into war by demanding tribute every turn. Occaisionally, they would cough up some money (see my log file in http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HT...tml?date=19:54 ). In that same game, the Zulus and Greeks would declare war instead of paying up once in a while. After a couple turns, I would contact them again. They would ask for a cease fire. I refused, they offered cash to sign. Then I signed a peace treaty, and their attitude was back to neutral. Taking over an AI city will greatly increase their willingness to offer a cease fire.

Once I had space flight, all the AIs would instantly declare war if I asked for tribute.

ZhugeLiang · December 1, 1999, 06:46

I've noticed that if the comp suprise attacks you for no reason and doesn't gain anything in 5-6 turns he will ask for a cease-fire and more often than nought you can refuse and get him to give you more than half of his money, then refuse a treaty if he has atleast 50$ he will give it to you for a treaty. I think the reason for this is, in the beggining if a comp attacks you and loses while you expand and build more units he suddenly goes from the supperior to the inferior and wants to smooth over any hard feelings. As far as a guy given me all his money and tech to spare him, i've only seen that in civ1 never had it happen in civ2, even when i was about to take his last city and he had more tech and money he always told me to get lost.

Scouse Gits · December 1, 1999, 07:46

I've certainly had offers of "all our gold and knowledge", but I have a sneaking suspicion that it was on v2.08 before I upgraded to v2.42 - anyone had it on v2.42?

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Scouse Git[1]

gambler · December 1, 1999, 08:46

Yes, I'm sure I found it in v2.42 and in TOT, in the Sci-Fi scenario, just a couple of week ago.

And about tributes, you don't need to be "Supreme", in a lot of OCC I got tribute while I was "Mighty".