How many times/When will they learn?

[Big Dave]

Space is gone, no PBEM, no hotseat, no more than 8 players. So Activision is right on track for a Thanksgiving release.... of CTP1.

And you sheeple are going to let them fleece you again. Don't do it, rise up on your hind legs and tell them "Enough!" Look at the facts, look at their track record. Two patches, if your lucky. And don't forget that (in the U.S.) it's an election year, too! So Activision will promise you 2 chickens in every pot and you'll all bleat and get in line.

If you (that's right, I'm talking to you) don't stand up and say "No more", if you don't stop giving your money to unethical companies for shoddy products then shoddy products are all you (and I) will ever get. Don't believe me? Look at Windows.

The choice is yours.

------------------
Big Dave

My karma ran over my dogma.

[Atahualpa]

I guess it is worth a try. If it turns out good I'll stick with it!
Damn Big Dave, you dont know if it will be bad. Maybe it will be great (though I have lost some faith in that sentence). Nevertheless every game is worth a try.
If you dont try it, you dont know. If you dont know you cant say if its bad or not (doesnt work for all things though).

Ata

election year, huh?
that totally opened my mind! you're right!
down with activision!!

[Dida]

I will definity wait for some solid review before pouring out my money.

[jbs]

Big Dave, Thanks for saying what I feel much better than I have been able too. The difference between a great game and a mediocre game are all the minor features that mesh well toghter. As you said in another post, CTP2 is defined by all the minor features left out.

[Tical_2000]

Ahhhhh yes! My people have spoken!

Big ups to Big Dave and all the other forum posters with their head on straight who have let Activison and their puppy dog, Mark G. know that we will not buy inferior products! Sing it in the mountains, boys! The fans come first and our feedback has obviously not been taken very seriously!

P.S. I don't work for Firaxis

[Nemo]

quote: posted June 10, 2000 13:12 City management screens...Woohoo! THANK YOU! aside: anti ctp1? or anti Activision? heh, I boycotted all Activision games after ctp1 was released...that's how ripped off i felt. I'm still gonna test it before buying - but my boycott *seems* like it might end shortly

i think i spoke to quickly - they might be doing "it" again (i.e. pushing a release becasue of teh legal/business department with their heads up their @$$, rather than letting the progammers finish teh game properly. there are too many big holes that after civ I,II and smac were understood to have been granted additions/fixes. i am still boycotting, if anything the reviews have reminded me of my last mistake. i shall not make that one again! ::looks in wallet to see $40 less than what should be there, and nothing to show for it::

------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life [unless you are activision or microshaft, err -soft]."
-Michael Sinz
[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited October 31, 2000).]

[MidKnight Lament]

The decision to have 8 civs would have been just that. A decision. I'm not sure that I like it, but I don't think that it's the result of them "pushing" the game out.

PBEM and hotseat....perhaps you're right.

Even still, I'm not going to hide away and say I won't buy the thing because you guys decide you're so eagerly against it. I can respect that you don't want to go down that track again, but I'm not going to be afraid to say I'll probably will buy it. And good luck to any others like me who decide (reviews pending) that they'll give it a shot.

If it turns out to be a dud, then I'll side with you guys in a month or so. Until then, I'm still happy to say I'll probably give it a go.

These anti-Activision threads always seem to come down to people who like the game being almost bullied. And I won't stand idly by!

------------------
- MKL
"And of course Henry The Horse dances the waltz!"
Shameless Plug: http://www.poetic-license.org celebrates it's First Birthday! All welcome.

[Big Dave]

I'm not so much anti-Activision as I am "fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." It's just looking like Activision is more concerned with their Christmas take than with producing a good product. I'll be the first to say that a company that isn't concerned with making money isn't going to be around long. OTOH, selling cotton candy isn't going to generate repeate customers. In case they don't have cotton candy where you are, it's spun sugar. It's all puffed up and pretty and comes in all different colors. It tastes nice and sweet, but if you try to take a bite there's nothing there.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe this will be a great game, supported until the year 2525. And those of you who are buying when it comes out, I wish you well. Buy it at EBX or somewhere else that will let you return it within 30 days.

Oh, and BTW, would anyone in here loan me $5,000 U.S.? Probably not, right? Why? Because you don't know me, you have no idea whether or not I'm a good risk, or if I'll pay you back even if I can! Would you make that $5,000 loan to your best friend for a good cause? Of course you would. You have a history with them, you know them and what their likely to do in a given situation. Well, guess what. I've seen Activision in action with CTP last time around. And this looks like the 2nd verse will be the same as the first to me.

But I sure hope not, believe it or not. Competition is good for the marketplace. We, the consumer, benefit from it. If Firaxis is the only one making TBS games (in general) and Civ games (in specific) then they can release whatever trash they want to and we (the consumer) can either buy that, or do without. I like alot of the inovation that Activision has added to the basic Civ concept. But stripping down the code, especially after admitting that the CTP2 engine was only a slightly reworked CTP engine, is not the way to advance new products.

And as for listening to your customers, well, Activision is only batting about .300 on that. I mean, if I were a major automotive manufacturer, MyCarCo, and I have an engine that gives 400 HP at 75 MPG (city) but my seat design had a huge lump right in the middle of the back, would consumers buy my cars? The few who do buy go out and purchase after-market seats, but contact my Customer Service dept, but I refuse to change my seat design. Am I likely to get much repeat business? Would you buy from MyCarCo again?

You are being sold on hype (see also cotton candy). You have bought the sizzle, but I want the steak. So Activision, "Where's the beef"?

------------------
Big Dave

My karma ran over my dogma.

[Big Dave]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 10-31-2000 04:57 PM election year, huh? that totally opened my mind! you're right! down with activision!!

Ok, I forgot to put the smileys after that line, sorry.

------------------
Big Dave

My karma ran over my dogma.

BIG BAD DAVIE-POOH...~sigh~
Did Kharma run over your Dogma and You too?

Geez...If it would shud-uppa-your-a-face-a...I would gladly refund your money..I mean..You would have thought Activision had raped your kids monkey or something as heinous as that!
Man..I aint..repaeting LOUDLY..I aint Not ATTACKING YOU..I am merely trying my best Carmine Da-Hump meets Siggy Freud..and trying to give you some much need Lucy-from Peanuts Therapy..(Here I'll drop a quarter in the cup for you my Big Dave Buddy!)

I am jusst so confused and Befuddled and darn right scratchin my Big Rosey-Red a#@-Hole to figure..(Or as My hero Jethro Bodeine..from Beverly Hillbillies sez.."Ciphering")..but cannot for the life of me see why you feel activision funked - up the CTP:1 game..My game works just fine..play it 4-6 nights a week..love it..wish I could figure out how to right some codes..but maybe one day..~sigh~

My Brother Big Dave..(Ripping a coupon good for a free therapy session out of the back of the phone book)..lets talk sometime..Im sorry for the bad taste this game has left you old buddy!!

Take a D E E P BREATH..Let it out....s..l..o..w..l..y...now dont ya feel like a new man???

God Bless

Brother Bruce Cronkite

A.K.A. The Former Patton..the current Red October..

quote: Originally posted by Tical_2000 on 10-31-2000 07:26 PM Ahhhhh yes! My people have spoken! Big ups to Big Dave and all the other forum posters with their head on straight who have let Activison and their puppy dog, Mark G. know that we will not buy inferior products! Sing it in the mountains, boys! The fans come first and our feedback has obviously not been taken very seriously! P.S. I don't work for Firaxis

Mark..I have allways respected what you say and support Activision and Apolyton and think you do a great job..and I love Dogs..WOW!!..I didnt realize you were a Puppy?..~sneer~


BTW..CTP:1 is not an inferior Product...Its a GREAT GAME!!

(You would think it were a Heavy Bag or Speed Bag instead of a little 'ole harmless CD..The way people take CHEAP SHOTS AT IT!!!)

[Slax]

Dr. D - Wasn't his name Jethro Clampett?

[Pyaray]

quote: Originally posted by Slax on 11-01-2000 11:17 PM Dr. D - Wasn't his name Jethro Clampett?

Nope, it's Jethro Bodine played by Max Baer Jr.. I think Jethro was a cousin. But it's been a while. Confirmation on IMDB at http://us.imdb.com/Title?0055662


Pyaray

[Slax]

Ah.. Thats right! Sorry...

[Nemo]

I am with big dave et al.
drdanger - dave havealways been fairly balanced with his opinions in the past - he has admitted that the game has good qualities, but he, like myself, is rather upset with the whole situation of feeling so ripped off by an inferior programming design.
as for myself, i honestly dont see how you could think this to be a game of good quality lets think of some of the bugs:

-doesnt center on moving units during turns.
-if you had a system near the min. req. you could go to the bathroom in between turns and come back before it was finished.
-any plane attackin/defending over water would autodie
-a phalax could kill a plane (and this was complained about and fixed in civ 2 - which means activision did not do their homework)
-no notification when an improvement was built
-the interface was downgraded/made more difficult (not my opinion, but by human engineering (i.e. GUI) text book example of what NOT to do)
-whole units would disappear off the screen

and those are just off the top of my head, not to include multiplayer gliches that i have heard of, but never experienced because i don't use that aspect of the game.
in all honesty i have never seen so many CRITICAL fixes listed by a gaming company during a patch release(s).

it is the ONLY game i have ever shelved to wait for a patch just to use it. i waited for the patch like is was a new game. _the most_ disapointing/unpalyable game i ever baught. and teh ONLY GAME i ever actually downloaded a patch for.

while the game had _many_ new and enlightening features, most of them didnt work right. activision sucks, they push crap out the doors too fast and dont care about their consumers. i remember the good old days of activison when they would give the customers gifts (remember when the would give you gifts for getting high scors in pitfall for atari?) i used to love activision. but this game totally turned me against them. i am going to give them a second chance only becaue of my memoriable childhood with them reminds me that it is possible for the company to do better for their consumers. but i beleive warez is looking like a nice review/30 trial for this patch, err game (sorry, no EBX in my deprived area to have a 30 day trial legally) - IF it is good i will buy it, otherwise i wont have to flame the message boards when i get pissed cause i lost $40 for another unfinished/unplayable game.
i think one of their programmers summed up both CTP I & II rather well:

quote: There were a lot of really horrendous bugs that quite frankly we didn't know how to fix in the amount of time we have.

hmmmmmm, sounds familar doesnt it??????!!!!!
yeah, thats what i thought - cant argue againt the horses mouth


------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz
[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited November 02, 2000).]

[Pyaray]

quote: Originally posted by Nemo on 11-02-2000 04:36 PM -doesnt center on moving units during turns.

This works in 2.

quote: -if you had a system near the min. req. you could go to the bathroom in between turns and come back before it was finished.

Honestly, how many games do you know of that play perfectly on the minimum spec?

quote: -any plane attackin/defending over water would autodie

This works.

quote: -a phalax could kill a plane (and this was complained about and fixed in civ 2 - which means activision did not do their homework)

This has been adressed.

quote: -no notification when an improvement was built

You definately get alerted.

quote: -the interface was downgraded/made more difficult (not my opinion, but by human engineering (i.e. GUI) text book example of what NOT to do)

I can readily show you contradictory text books about how to do "proper" human engineering. But that's not important. We have spent a great deal of time improving the interface.

quote: -whole units would disappear off the screen

I don't know what this one was about, but I've never seen it happen.

quote: Originally posted by Pyaray There were a lot of really horrendous bugs that quite frankly we didn't know how to fix in the amount of time we have. hmmmmmm, sounds familar doesnt it??????!!!!! yeah, thats what i thought!

Wow was that taken out of context. That quote is why we took out a feature. We are dedicated to releasing a quality game, and we would rather remove a feature that doesn't work right than have a feature that is buggy and crashing. Your entire post was about us not addressing bugs, and you use one of my posts about addressing bugs against us. That quote was me explaining why we removed a feature, to make the game higher quality so that we could spend more time fixing other things. As I said, we are dedicated to making a quality product, and part of that does mean decisions about cutting things we don't have time to do to benefit other things that we can do.

Pyaray
[This message has been edited by Pyaray (edited November 02, 2000).]

[Maccabee2]

Big Dave is not anti-Activision, he is merely displaying a good, old-fashioned virtue called "thriftiness." I find it refreshing in a culture where we buy tons of junk stamped with "Made in China."
As I have mentioned before, it's not just $40 or the equivalent in your country's currency, it's the investment of valuable *time* when we hunt down, buy, install, and learn a new game....only to find that many of the problems we spent even more *time* pointing out meticulously to Activision have not been fixed or possibly even addressed.
I am cautiously hopeful. I will wait for the reviews, and even more importantly, the posts that will deluge this forum after you bolder (perhaps more affluent?) civ gamers lead the charge in putting CTP2 through its shakedown cruise.
Ironically, if CTP1 had not been a gift from some friends at work, my wife would have suffocated me in my sleep long ago. She just couldn't understand why I spent more than three months uninstalling and reinstalling CTP1 just to get it to the point that it would allow me to create a scenario (so I could play with specific opponents on a decent world map), move it to the right folder, and be able to load it from within the game. If I had actually bought that game with our own money, she would still be holding it over my head. I guess my point is, if Activision puts out a dud product, and we buy it, how does that make us look to our wives? Hmmmmm?

[Nemo]

pyaray - sorry didnt mean for you to be wasting your time replying to that - you have been so good about informing us. i understand that most of my posting was fixed which was the point of the post - i/we had to wait for a patch before those things were fixed, and the game was playable (except the plane/water one which you have answered -ty- and teh min req i posted October 31, 2000 19:39 that i thought you should actually up your min req and to hell with low sys req users, even if it included by passing my 450 )

and yes the quote was taken WAY out of context, sorry - but it just seemed soooo fitting my adimosity is nothing personal against any of the programmers, it is the rush that is blatenly being put on you to release the game at X time (i.e. black friday) rather than making it what it should/could be. with several of teh features being removed that were even in the first release, it is too much of a reminissance of the CTP I release - and i fear getting ripped off again (and youcant simply say - 'well dont buy it' becsue i am a civ adict, so that wont do -well...actually it may if the reviews are bad ) - i want it to be as good as it can be (and you have shown us it could be) but my hopes are downfalling as i see many requested (e.g. hotseat pbem - even though i personally never used them) features being removed to meet X shipping time. and i dont want others feeling/being (still debatable which it was) ripped off like i - and others - have with ctp I

------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz
[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited November 02, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited November 02, 2000).]

[3rdTrial]

I can honestly say that I would NOT buy a game without hotseat, because this is the only way I play it after a while. (Altough WesW APIs are putting an interesting fight!)

I was surprised (and not happy) when I realized that CTP did not have a hotseat version. It was a relief when it was finally fixed.

I don't mind space much, altough I personally like it, but hotseat for me is fundamental! I will miss playing CTP2.... 8^(

"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz
[
Hmm..so your equating a sexual encounter to that of a programmer's job.....hmmm....maybe THAT'S WHY you think CTP:1 is a poor game?Well..I guess you have a good "HAND[le]" on things..eh?
Oh Well..I stand by my opinion and you do too..so I guess we can all "Agree 2 Disagree"

However..It is just on my Heart to Thank the GREAT FOLKS @ ACTIVISION for A S-U-P-E-R Game in Call To Power!!
Way to go Activision..Keep up the Great Work..and I Forgive you for a few Glitches in the CTP:1 release..and I am sure you will do another S-U-P-E-R J-O-B with version 2

God Bless

Brother Bruce

quote: Originally posted by Maccabee2 on 11-02-2000 05:25 PM Big Dave is not anti-Activision, he is merely displaying a good, old-fashioned virtue called "thriftiness." I find it refreshing in a culture where we buy tons of junk stamped with "Made in China." As I have mentioned before, it's not just $40 or the equivalent in your country's currency, it's the investment of valuable *time* when we hunt down, buy, install, and learn a new game....only to find that many of the problems we spent even more *time* pointing out meticulously to Activision have not been fixed or possibly even addressed. I am cautiously hopeful. I will wait for the reviews, and even more importantly, the posts that will deluge this forum after you bolder (perhaps more affluent?) civ gamers lead the charge in putting CTP2 through its shakedown cruise. Ironically, if CTP1 had not been a gift from some friends at work, my wife would have suffocated me in my sleep long ago. She just couldn't understand why I spent more than three months uninstalling and reinstalling CTP1 just to get it to the point that it would allow me to create a scenario (so I could play with specific opponents on a decent world map), move it to the right folder, and be able to load it from within the game. If I had actually bought that game with our own money, she would still be holding it over my head. I guess my point is, if Activision puts out a dud product, and we buy it, how does that make us look to our wives? Hmmmmm?

Buddy..I think you have some REALLY SERIOUS MARITAL PROBLEMS if purchasing a CD cause's problems in your marriage

Man..I am a DIE HARD Fan of CTP:1.....I am soo sorry you and many other have had a Hard Time..Maybe Building Blocks are more your Speed?..eh?
I reserve the right as an American to Defend Activision as a Great Company!!
Go get 'Em!

God Bless

Brother Bruce

[Big Dave]

quote: Originally posted by DrDanger on 11-02-2000 08:29 PM However..It is just on my Heart to Thank the GREAT FOLKS @ ACTIVISION for A S-U-P-E-R Game in Call To Power!! Way to go Activision..Keep up the Great Work..and I Forgive you for a few Glitches in the CTP:1 release..and I am sure you will do another S-U-P-E-R J-O-B with version 2 God Bless Brother Bruce

You forgot to burn your incense while you were worshiping Activision. And better get your perscription checked, rose colored glasses don't look good on anyone.

------------------
Big Dave

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me!

quote: Originally posted by Big Dave on 11-03-2000 09:29 AM You forgot to burn your incense while you were worshiping Activision. And better get your perscription checked, rose colored glasses don't look good on anyone.

Nope..I wear Photo-Gray..to keep the Brilliant Lights from Life's experiences down to a minimum!!
Nor does one's ARSE..HEH HEH HEH..all HUMPED up on ones shoulders..

God Bless
Brother Bruce

quote: Originally posted by Nemo on 11-03-2000 12:44 PM well, since you have resorted to an uncalled for personal attack you ignorance has truely shown, thus proving that only the ingorant can find such a game as complete and playable out of the box. -Thank you for proving my point And the signiture is rather appropiate, because as a programmer myself, i/my company actually supports our work if there are flaws with it - unlike activision - and that is how it is like having kids (yeah, thats right, a "sex MISTAKE" = kids). and what it iis saying is that you have to support your programs just as you would your children, i.e. you have to obligate yourself to your mistakes. i figured i had to spell it out since you are too stupid to figure it out on your own. Now- if you have any VALID reasons as to why the game was actually playabe out of the box i would love to hear it, because it certainly was not a balanced, nor critical bug free game.

Well..if you practiced safe-sex.."NON-Promiscius that is!!"you wouldnt have to worry..being married would definetly be a blessing to have children..not a mistake..and as for programming my dear wanna-B-perfectionist...DONT TRY TO SELL ME or anyone else that you or your company produce a so-called 100% OUT-OF-THE-BOX Perfect Product..
Geez Fella...are you from Disneyland
or someplace?

If you Dont Like Activision..Move on with your Life...
If you Do..then be more supportive..and as for your Friend..Dave..He Thinks more Highly of Himself too..I would be Hard pressed to see a Perfect product produced anywhere..100 % That is..

God Bless

Brother Bruce

[Nemo]

quote: posted November 02, 2000 20:29 "Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life." -Michael Sinz [ Hmm..so your equating a sexual encounter to that of a programmer's job.....hmmm....maybe THAT'S WHY you think CTP:1 is a poor game?Well..I guess you have a good "HAND[le]" on things..eh? Oh Well..I stand by my opinion and you do too..so I guess we can all "Agree 2 Disagree"

well, since you have resorted to an uncalled for personal attack you ignorance has truely shown, thus proving that only the ingorant can find such a game as complete and playable out of the box. -Thank you for proving my point
And the signiture is rather appropiate, because as a programmer myself, i/my company actually supports our work if there are flaws with it - unlike activision - and that is how it is like having kids (yeah, thats right, a "sex MISTAKE" = kids). and what it iis saying is that you have to support your programs just as you would your children, i.e. you have to obligate yourself to your mistakes. i figured i had to spell it out since you are too stupid to figure it out on your own.
Now- if you have any VALID reasons as to why the game was actually playabe out of the box i would love to hear it, because it certainly was not a balanced, nor critical bug free game.

------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz
[This message has been edited by Nemo (edited November 03, 2000).]

[Sound of Hammering]

(Stepping Back..admiring my work)

(Big Dave and his Girlfriend Nemo read Posted Notice)

Here Ye' Here Ye' Here Ye'..Let it be Known that two Unscrupulous Scoundrels...Smelling of Wine and Debauchery..are here by Charged by Your Government Leader...DrDanger..with Sedition and Derision against Activision..all women and children beware..Men..take up your Arms..(PENS)..and bear witness)

(My piercing glare cuts to the two hoodlums...tossing a Gauntlet at their feet)

As Big Dave and Nemo bend over to pick it up..quizzacily..staring..scratchin..them thar heads?)

(I Pull out my Gloves..slapping once with a fore stroke and once with a backstroke..reddening the cheeks of the dastardly duo )

YOU TWO HAVE BEEN WARNED...Leave Activision and you shall live in peace..in an Exiled country..STAY..you shall suffer my Unquenchable Wrath!)


Heh Heh Heh Hehe

Ok Fellas..Just having a little fun......
(Let me look into the Nostrodamus future..I see two upset fellas...~sigh~..Oh Well!)


Have a blessed Day

God Bless

Brother Bruce Cronkite
[This message has been edited by DrDanger (edited November 04, 2000).]

[Big Dave]

Oh, I'm quaking in my boots! And you've certainly address all the issues I've brought up, gee, I'm soooooo cowed.

{adds drunken bubba to killfile}

quote: Originally posted by DrDanger on 11-04-2000 06:19 AM [Sound of Hammering] (Stepping Back..admiring my work) (Big Dave and his Girlfriend Nemo read Posted Notice) Here Ye' Here Ye' Here Ye'..Let it be Known that two Unscrupulous Scoundrels...Smelling of Wine and Debauchery..are here by Charged by Your Government Leader...DrDanger..with Sedition and Derision against Activision..all women and children beware..Men..take up your Arms..(PENS)..and bear witness) (My piercing glare cuts to the two hoodlums...tossing a Gauntlet at their feet) As Big Dave and Nemo bend over to pick it up..quizzacily..staring..scratchin..them thar heads?) (I Pull out my Gloves..slapping once with a fore stroke and once with a backstroke..reddening the cheeks of the dastardly duo ) YOU TWO HAVE BEEN WARNED...Leave Activision and you shall live in peace..in an Exiled country..STAY..you shall suffer my Unquenchable Wrath!) Heh Heh Heh Hehe Ok Fellas..Just having a little fun...... (Let me look into the Nostrodamus future..I see two upset fellas...~sigh~..Oh Well!) Have a blessed Day God Bless Brother Bruce Cronkite [This message has been edited by DrDanger (edited November 04, 2000).]

------------------
Big Dave

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me!

[Big Dave]

quote: Originally posted by DrDanger on 11-03-2000 10:40 PM ..and as for programming my dear wanna-B-perfectionist...DONT TRY TO SELL ME or anyone else that you or your company produce a so-called 100% OUT-OF-THE-BOX Perfect Product..

Do you bother to read these posts or do you just hit the Reply button and start typing inflamitory drivel? He didn't say that his company released bug-free software, he said they support it after the fact. And the lack of support from Activision is what most of the complaints are about.

So since I can see that you have a 7th grade reading level I'll simply ask if you got your lobotomy at a 2 for 1 sale. Or will you show me that you are capable of reason? Otherwise you will be simply ignored.

------------------
Big Dave

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me!

[red_jon]

I really hate it when people like DrDanger force a thread to be closed because they start ridiculous personal attacks on people and resort to name calling.

(as in the thread I created on CTP being too US-centric, which was good when people were coming up with ideas for new wonders, then people took it as an attack on their country and started turning nasty, which I'm sorry to say I responded to).

Anyway, my point is, criticise the games if yoiu must, but when you start critising other people, you just start to get rather pathetic.

Anyways, back to CTP2. I think Activision should have programmers on standby to make a patch straight away when people start reporting serious bugs, instead of one being released later on.

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.