Should you go/ not go after the hutts

arii · December 13, 1999, 15:58

This is one of the fine points that I have lately wondering about.
My take is if you are in monarchy or playing at a level lower than emperor, then it's a no brainer. One should go all out after the hutts.
Now before you have monarchy in emperor or deity is it worth it?
Getting a tech that is not on the monarchy pathway will cost you an extra 2-3 turn to get to monarchy. If you get a second tech that is not on the pathway and monarchy is now a long way to go.
What do you guys think?

Smash · December 13, 1999, 16:16

Ya,I've had games where Monarchy became a distant dream because of 5 or 6 found techs.But you may get a Monarchy pre-requisit,or gold,or a 4 legged unit.I think you take the chance and turn em all.There is more good than bad.In MP,if you don't, someone else will.1 for sure as often you need 4 techs before Monarchy is offered.So 1 tech is good.

Its double edged.You can get lucky or unlucky.YES.This game is full of luck.Every great game is.

DaveV · December 13, 1999, 16:28

I'm with Smash. What are the possible outcomes?

1) Barbarians (bad if close to you, good if close to your opponent)
2) Money (always good)
3) Tech (usually good)
4) Wandering Nomads (always good)
5) Military unit (usually good; may cause support problems if not NONE)
6) Advanced Tribe (usually good)
7) Empty (neutral)

Overall, it seems to me that it's well worth hitting the huts early and often. Against the AI, you can survive a loooong time in despotism. Against humans, I think you should look for every edge you can get.

finbar · December 13, 1999, 21:03

Agree. Except, typically, tipping over a hut and finding 40,000 barb knights near an AI civ seems to mean the barbs wander off (for a barbeque, presumably), or head in your direction. I don't often see them making the AI's life as miserable as they make mine.

Different if you tip over 40,000 barb knights near a human oppo city, though. That's lots of fun.

------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

Ming · December 13, 1999, 22:12

My rule is simple... No matter the position, no matter the game, no matter the level...

TAKE THE HUT! The percentages are in your favor. Beats the heck out of gambling in Las Vegas

Matthew · December 14, 1999, 00:42

I usually follow a simple rule. If I have a real good start, I will at most risk 1 or 2 huts early on that could slow me down to monarchy. Bad start, and I will take any chance I can get. In between, I still shy away from huts before I am at least researching Monarchy. but may sometines take a chance.

Besides, the earlier huts you find will still usually be waiting for you once you get Monarchy.

I know that at times my caution will stop me from getting a lot of free cities early on, but I feel that if I have a decent start I can compete pretty well without them.

By the way Ming, in our duel I got pottery from the first hut I went into. I don't know how the heck I beat you to philosophy when monarchy came so late for me. (Although the gold I eventually found didn't hurt, he he he he)
[This message has been edited by Matthew (edited December 13, 1999).]

geofelt · December 14, 1999, 01:56

I admit to an irrestible urge to see what is in every hut. If I find a hut within a future city site, it is probably better to wait, because no barbs are supposed to be there. More good outcomes than bad exist, so the odds are in your favor. Only if a bunch of barbs would really hurt do I wait.

finbar · December 14, 1999, 06:32

A hut beside where I'm going to build a city is bliss. A hut within the city radius cannot produce barbs.

------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

SmartFart · December 14, 1999, 09:50

Usually,am not after the huts before monarchy with one exception :
Hut is visible on very 1st turn.
If that happens and hut is on grassland or plains,i move my settler 3-4 squares away and build a city with them. In the same time,my other settler build a road around the hut until my capital is builded. Then i enter into hut. Very often (40-50% maybe) there's advanced tribe in it. It's probably just luck,but it's also a helluva advantage.
I think it's better to save huts for later. With appropriate defense,noone can open the huts in your territory.
In duels,i go for the huts.

Ming · December 14, 1999, 10:43

Well Ok... If I'm one or two turns from Monarchy, I will delay on a hut if I can afford to keep the unit near by

And Matthew, it wouldn't let me take philosphy. I had to take two other stupid sciences before it gave me the option... that's why you beat me to it.

[This message has been edited by Ming (edited December 14, 1999).]

Steve Clark · December 14, 1999, 14:26

kcbob: You asked a question that I've been dealing with as well. Before I played my first emperor game recently, I cheated on the huts. Several of our friends here chided me on that (as they will you). I vowed to mend my ways but in that emperor game, I couldn't go all the way. In earlier games, I reloaded a hut until I got what I specifically wanted at that time. To help ease into totally accepting what it gives you, I accepted whatever good thing that comes out of it and rejected the bad (sometimes barbs, othertimes tribes). Once I got going though, I didn't care about the barbs. So, if you're like me, maybe gradually easing into the 'proper' way of playing might be the way to go?

I remember Ming saying two things: 1) if you play MP (which I don't), you got to learn to accept, and 2) play however you want to play, the AI don't care.

Theben · December 14, 1999, 14:27

kcbob, the earlier you wean yourself of this habit, the sooner you'll develop tactics to deal with whatever problems a goodie hut may throw at you.

I always take goodie huts, but I may wait to do so. One method is to grab coastal huts with a 2 move unit that jumps off a ship. If you get barbs, jump back on board. This doesn't work on rough terrain; you'll need an explorer, partisan, or alpine unit to do this safely. Another method is the tag-team 2 move + diplomat. The military unit takes the hut, and if you get barbs, buy off two barbs and use them to attack the rest. With proper placement a max of 7 barbs can appear (dip takes up a space) buy 2= 5, kill 0 (if unlucky) to 4 (if lucky) enemy barbs, probably 2-3. that leaves 2 or 3 barbs on average (if 7 generate). Usually some of your units will survive to continue exploring. If you're lucky you'll wind up with +2 military units!

kcbob · December 14, 1999, 14:56

Thanks, Steve, for sharing the pain. Loved the quote from Ming. (Are you the Steve Clark I know from KC?) And thanks, Thebe (is that Steve with a lisp?). After the current emperor game, I will swear off "reverting".

Xin Yu · December 14, 1999, 15:04

Build a city then take the hut withing city radius? Be careful. If the hut is on a good position (shiled grass) your worker may automatically work on it and kill the hut.

Reload a hut is not cheating. It is suggested by the Official Strategy Guide "save frequently, before entering a village, before starting a battle,..."! Well, if it is cheating, then blame the 'officers'.

The most important suggestion: think before opening a hut. What shall I do if it is

a barb(where is the barb likely to appear, shall I attack or run, to where)?
8 barbs (pretty much nothing)?
a city (keep it or disband)?
tech (will it hamper my research)?
horse (will it eat my supporting shield for too long)?
archers (same)?
settler (wow, where to move it)?

arii · December 14, 1999, 15:27

Thanks for the sugsetions.
One point I would like to add is if I see a hut in my initial radius I delay building my first city until I open it. I prevents it from being a barb and if I get a unit it will be a none unit.

finbar · December 14, 1999, 22:10

XY - Good point re the worker trampling on the hut. I'll bear it in mind. Luckily, on just about every occasion it's happened, either the hut hasn't been on valuable ground, or I've got a river, which the worker automatically descends upon.

Re relading. I used to do it, too. Eventually, once your skills improve, you realise you don't need to do it. I think someone - possibly Smash - once put the thought that the quickest way to improve your skills (apart from practice) is reading these forums. There's such a wealth of incredibly good information and experience.

------------------
finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[This message has been edited by finbar (edited December 14, 1999).]

Theben · December 15, 1999, 00:01

One last point is that if you only have your capital any barb unit that attacks it will lose. I don't know if there's a time limit on this, and it seems to carry over a little with 2 cities (but only the capital gets the bonus), but I've watched my lone warrior take on 2 chariots without worry.

kcbob · December 15, 1999, 01:59

I always tip a hut. My question is this. I'm still relatively new to Civ 2. I'm on maybe my 15th game, second one at the emperor level and will probably win this one hands down. BUT, (and that's a big but), I... cheat. I save before entering a hut and if I don't like the outcome, I "revert" to the saved game. I know, I know. I'm probably not playing a "pure" game. BUT (there it is again), as I move up a level in difficulty, I get killed if I don't do this. Now if I went back to, say, prince or even king level, I'd probably be able to hold my own now. My question is this... should I just bite the bullet and stop this practice right now or will I eventually grow out of it naturally? And of course I would never dream of doing this in a MP game if that's even possible.