Column #150; By MarkG

January 21, 2001, 00:46

It's time to face facts and move on with the Civilization series, says MarkG in his latest article entitled "Goodbye Activision; Now Civers, Let's Get To Work.

Comments/questions weclomed here.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

Savant · January 21, 2001, 02:48

Marko, your article appropriately reads like a funeral dirge or requiem for Actvision's part in the Civ series. Clearly, their most loyal, critical, and capable fan-base resides at the Apolyton boards. To essentially insult all the people here by issuing a statement that even one-ups the Clinton administration for evasion and absence of accountability is not only condesending it is also akin to commiting hari-kari with their customer base.

How many games does the average gamer buy? How close-knit is the gaming community? Anyone in the know also realizes that this kind of malfeasance by a game publisher does not go unpunished. Just months ago I owned shares of ATVI and sold them for a profit bc I figured the xmas season was going to be a downer for games and all tech stuff and I'm glad I did. And I'm very pleased I have no interest now in ATVI whatsoever. I think ATVI is going to have hell to pay among the "adult" gamers. A few years from now they will be relegated to making Pokemon and other chirlish games for NES and gameboy because it's "just too hard to please that literate gaming community at Apolyton."

Frankly, they should have just said that and owed up that they were overawed by the challenge of producing a quality product for intelligent consumers. I think you were balanced in your comments and from your perspective, knowing what you do about the industry, I'm sure your statements are still a scathing rebuke of the stunt they pulled. I just wished to be a bit more blunt.

Thanks to all your effort to make this a great site for gamers.

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'Blood will run'

KhanMan · January 21, 2001, 03:35

It is sad that Activision chooses to take the money and run, but we will see how much they profit in the long run. With their reputation here for producing brilliantly inovative programs that still fail to function, I'm not surprized they're looking elsewhere.

That said, Civ 3 is something I continued to hope for...I trust Sid, and Firaxis will, at the very least, see that the game is not defective as CtP was.

-KhanMan

deleted · January 21, 2001, 04:08

MarkG:
First I'd like to say that your unfortunately right. A boycott will not cause Activision to patch the game. But it will hopefully have other effects. Unlike you there are many of us who not only play strategy games but also play FPS's, sports games, RPG's etc. and will hopefully inform Activision that thier decision, will not only hurt thier revenue in future TBS games, but in other sectors of the game market as well. Other wise TBS games will continue to be shafted, by companies who cut thier losses and pull out.

MrFun · January 21, 2001, 04:30

Unfortunately, an increasing number of people are beginning to believe what SEEMS to be the truth - software marketing and distribution is "all money and NO customer relations."

BUT there have been Activision staff members on this forum as Markos has stated.

January 21, 2001, 04:31

As far as I see it this is the bottom line:

Activision tried to compete with Sid Meier and failed horribly!!! Their response to our inquiries? Basically "screw you all, we're moveing on to other projects."

I really wonder what kind of a response they will recieve from these "new projects" of theirs?????

That said, again, I thank you APOLYTON for giving a spot for the CIV Gamer to "speak whats on his/her mind

raingoon · January 21, 2001, 06:24

Well said, Marko. Thanks for being an honest voice for CTP2 from the start. I was working up a review for this game myself, but never finished it. It oddly defied reviewing -- not really bad and not really great. Too bad Activision is quitting it. But I guess it's like Mark Twain said -- If you have to swallow a frog it's best not to look at it for too long.

January 21, 2001, 10:10

I would like to add something to the article, cause I might be misunderstood

This was not an attempt to judge the overall participation of Activision to the civ genre. Because in that case I should have also talked about the great ideas that CTP1/2 brought, as well as the (good) competition that was created by these two games.
The participation of Activision in the genre was overall positive, no matter if some things didnt work out perfectly.

Lancer · January 21, 2001, 11:14

Oh well, this is too bad. Anyway, some other company will step up to the plate, or Activision will change it's mind, because I got $50 bucks in my pocket, and so do all of you.

Too bad all you programing whiz types can't stop modifying CTP and start a game of your own...

January 21, 2001, 11:53

quote:

Originally posted by Lancer on 01-21-2001 10:14 AM
Too bad all you programing whiz types can't stop modifying CTP and start a game of your own...

we dont need too. ctp2 provides a base for lots of thing to be done...

Slax · January 21, 2001, 20:08

quote:

Originally posted by Lancer on 01-21-2001 10:14 AM
Too bad all you programing whiz types can't stop modifying CTP and start a game of your own...

I recently checked out the alternative Civ games on this site. Some of them look pretty impressive...

(I am not affiliated with any of them, just bored of CTP1/2 and the fabled CIV III).

Dale · January 21, 2001, 21:34

Markos, your column was an excellent read. I admire your restraint in the comments towards Activision as a whole and agree with your comments on CTP2 and it's team. The team did do a good job with CTP1 & 2, and they are good games. It's just unfortunate that Activision pulled the rug out from under them and won't allow the team to make the great game that we all hoped for. The team did a great job in competing against Civ2. For a Civ-game it was a good effort, but unfortunate that corporate politics and profit destroyed our (the Civers) image of the game. As for Activision the company, it can rot in the foul stench of its capitalist money-grabbing policies. In future I'm going to be a lot more careful on what game I'm buying. In Australia, at $90 - $110 a pop it's getting expensive. No longer will I bend over, grip the table and take it up the ass!

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Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

January 22, 2001, 01:33

MarkG, I think what you wrote took a lot of courage. Thanks for writing it.

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phoenixcager
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of the the Civilization Gaming Network. Visit the CGN Forums

January 22, 2001, 02:45

This Mark Giannopoulous guy is a good writer - who is he? He should post more

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

January 22, 2001, 06:54

quote:

Originally posted by phoenixcager on 01-22-2001 12:33 AM
MarkG, I think what you wrote took a lot of courage. Thanks for writing it.

i had a couple of vodkas before writing that...

seriously, can you be more specific?

Lancer · January 22, 2001, 10:20

Here's an absurd idea. We each kick in a few bucks, send them to Mark and Dan, they buy the rights to put out Apolytons' CTP 3, and pay ppl back w/ a good game in the mail. If Activision is seriously not interested, should be cheap enough...free money from an abandoned product line...

Apolyton and the folks that do the programming could even reap some profit instead of working for free.

I think I could personally swing $100 in March or so.

This would be a kick in the pants.

Mark, I thought your story was very well written too, all of it. Print it and hang it on a wall somewhere, don't lose it.

Pyaray · January 22, 2001, 14:40

quote:

Originally posted by Lancer on 01-22-2001 09:20 AM
Here's an absurd idea. We each kick in a few bucks, send them to Mark and Dan, they buy the rights to put out Apolytons' CTP 3, and pay ppl back w/ a good game in the mail. If Activision is seriously not interested, should be cheap enough...free money from an abandoned product line...

Apolyton and the folks that do the programming could even reap some profit instead of working for free.

I think I could personally swing $100 in March or so.

While this is an amusing idea, you are severely underestimating how much money it costs even to do just a patch to a game like this. You're talking about hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. I assure you, if it was something inexpensive enough to be funded like this, Activision would have done it. But it's not that small of a project.

quote:

Mark, I thought your story was very well written too, all of it. Print it and hang it on a wall somewhere, don't lose it.

He did hang it on a wall, an electronic wall, here.

Pyaray

down th' pub · January 22, 2001, 17:04

Thanks again Mark, you said concisely what I (and I'm sure many others) felt.

There are some very good things about the game, it's pretty, I love the combat model, the interface is nice, some nice adaptions from SMAC.

But the downside is substantial, the AI is timid at best, stability is obviously an issue based on the system requirements stated and for crying out loud how hard would it be to fix the scoring?

Great work by the dedicated and talented fixing what shouldn't need fixing. How much are you guys going to bill Activision for your time?

I will play on, but only while the good guys finish Civ3.

January 27, 2001, 06:03

i dont want to sound bad, but all this over enthusiasm on civ3 could turn out a disaster....

January 27, 2001, 11:45

You're right Mark, it might turn into another disaster...but with the way CTP2 turned out, I believe CIV III couldn't possibly be any worse and has the Sid Meir influence of being much better.