Any good way to improve diplomacy in MGE?

Lazlo · February 2, 2000, 19:03

I think that now everyone agrees that the AI diplomacy is NOT definitely the same as it was in the standard CIV 2.
Its aggresiveness level is extremely high.
I mean, going down from Enthusiastically to Hostile in one turn for no apparent reason is not what I would say realistic. Even worse, it is not FUN, at least for me.
There are a plenty of scenarios included in the CD where do you have to cooperate with other AI to fulfill a goal. How are you supposed to do it if the first thing they do is threaten you up?
They say this is a new feature so the game is more competitive. Maybe it is true. But I do see it more like a bug rather than a feature. I like play a good diplomacy oriented game once in a while and now I can´t. Is there anyway to fix this thing?
If it weren´t for this, MGE would be an excellent game. As it is, I can´t recommend it to anyone unless they intend to play it for serious multiplayer game.

Too bad I have given away my old copy of civ 2 to a friend, hoping that MGE will do for it.

PS: excuse my english please.

War4ever · February 2, 2000, 19:45

Ah but MGE is far better as i prefer a hostile ai which allows me to clense the world of the evil ai dictators lol

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I am a civ addict. ARE U 2??????

icq 30200920

Sten Sture · February 2, 2000, 20:26

anyone know if there is a way to offset this change in the rules.txt???

In the two recent OCC games, I got very different AI responses, both were v2.42 saves, but played on MGE. I am not sure why.

February 2, 2000, 20:29

Funny, I never noticed ...

Steve Clark · February 2, 2000, 21:10

I second my good friend war4ever. Why demean yourself by being diplomatic with the AI??? I only accept cease fires or peace treaties just to get more units in their faces. Then I break it. The goal in the game is to get everyone Enraged and at War with you - that's where the fun is.

But I do respect other ways of playing and variety is good. I'll keep on learning.

Smash · February 2, 2000, 21:44

war is probably the easiest way to win against the ai.In the normal version you make a decision whether to pursue conquest or Space.In the gold version your "space" strategy soons becomes developing new military techs and pounding the ai into oblivion.I find the constant trespassing and threats become annoying to the point where it becomes "DEATH to the AI" Its fun but the original is better.

I used to like contacting ais in MP games but now I know the few free techs and small amount of gold aren't worth the war that will come and slow me down relative to other human players.I think that is why many MP games now have no ais
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited February 02, 2000).]

Lazlo · February 2, 2000, 22:11

The thing is that I´m not able to play MP games too often because of time (and money) issues, so I usually keep with single player scenarios.
Seeing that the MGE would include not only civ2 but also the both expansion packs, it looked like a good deal for me. But I was fooled!! It is not Civ2!! The whole war gets boring for me after a while!
I merely wanted to play some scenarios and enjoy the new possibilities that MGE offered but I realizaed that I can´t.
Single player is just unplayable unless you play total war, and that gets boring after a while. Why did they ruined up the diplomacy, one of the most fundamental pieces of the game?
As I said before: if Microprose wanted to make the AI more aggressive to the point that it will get impossible to have any kind of relations, fine. But then it should be as an optional to the game.
I think I will uninstall the game from my disk and see if I can give it to some friend.
Just as it is, it is not fun.

February 2, 2000, 23:02

Have you ever played just ignoring the AI completely? Its hard and fun, face it pansy-ass AI's are too easy. I think I make a 7-civ small-map no-diplomacy scenario for MGE. Everyone must be Vendetta against everyone else.

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MasterBob,
Master of all Bobs,
Webmaster---Come to the Cviworld UBB forums at Civworld Forums

If you do not go the wise way of the fish, you shall slowly go the way of the buffalo.

Lazlo · February 2, 2000, 23:19

Well, yes I have. It is the only thing I can do! It is fun at the beginning (at least for me) but then I get tired.

Look, I ´m pretty sure this is a BUG.
I have been tweaking a little bit with the Cheat Menu. I have set the other civs attitude to me to 0 (the best) and then let one turn pass. It inmediately goes up to 100 (the worst!). Difficulty level does not matter. I have tried in Chieftain.
This game is in need of a patch. For me it is quite unbelievable that this thing goes unnoticed in the v1.3 patch. They must correct it! The idea of the Gold Edition is of recompiling together all the Civ2 stuff, adding the multiplayer stuff! Instead, they have ruined the game!

I don´t want to sound harsh but please don´t tell me anymore how fun is to play against all the AI in a total war. For me it is not. I was able to play Ok in the old Civ 2 and now I can´t.

Steve Clark · February 3, 2000, 00:06

Lazlo: I hear you, even for a conqueror like myself can sometimes find total warfare to be a slogging chore (war4ever: please forgive my blasphemous, I can only speak the truth)

I do like total warfare, it probably comes from regularly playing those great Civil War battleground games from Talonsoft. As far as the differences, I had only bought MGE (I, too, love the historical scenarios), so I have no idea what 2.42 is like (other than what the good folks here have said). However, I can't imagine that the diplomacy in the original could be better other than the more positive attitude levels. IMO, that's not a big deal. Hate to see anyone leave CivII, there is a wealth of alternative strategies and scenarios.

Scouse Gits · February 3, 2000, 07:40

Lazlo,

Do not despair, the civ242.zip patch distributed by Microprose contains nearly the complete game, it is missing only a few graphic files and the sound files - you have most of these in your MGE and the others can be acquired from any of the several graphic modpacks available from this site.

In other words, Civ2 v2.42 is now to all intents and purposes public domain and you should be able to put it together with a little care.

We now have both (and ToT & CtP) its simply a matter of choosing your horse for your course.

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Bohlen · February 3, 2000, 16:18

Just like the real world then...the history of the world has been filled with conflicts between those tribes that want to be on top of the world and those that want to do the same. Events during the Cold War came close to destroying this planet because of extremely poor international relations between USA & USSR. Who thinks it should be any easier in civ? Anyone? The AI hates those at the top and so do those that hold 2nd place power in the real world.

I have limited experience at Deity level with either version and am now finding it a challenge to move up from Emp. to Deity on MGE. I love the challenge. I know that if I can beat MGE at that level, then 2.42 would be a cakewalk. I say, "Bring it on, MGE!"

Lazlo · February 3, 2000, 17:02

Thanks a lot to all of you!
Yes, I think I will download v2.42 and hope that it does not make disasters with MGE.
But I was wondering, wouldn´t I loose all the
improvements added to the CIV2 Fantasy and Conflicts in Civ. packs? After all, this patch
was meant to the original old civ 2. I won´t be able to play the scenarios included in the CD, I think.

By the way, Sten Sture, "Boca fan down 2-0 to River" is pretty much something not very known in this places. Are you from Argentina?

Sten Sture · February 4, 2000, 01:28

Lazlo - how much have you tried to modify your AI interaction? I have been having increased "success" with the AIs by slowing my growth, sharing techs, keeping my cash "invested" in improvements, making allies, and regularly sharing maps. If I go into aggressive expansion mode, get way ahead in techs, have a bunch of cash, or build up an army, they get madder than a Boca fan down 2-0 to River.

Scouse Gits · February 4, 2000, 07:27

Yes Lazlo, you are correct FW & CiC are later versions of Civ2 than 2.42 and the scenarios will NOT work with it.

However, rather than lose a Civ fan I thought that getting 2.42 for free would keep you in the fold.

What you should try is

copy and paste your entire Civ2 directory to some safe location on your hard drive (this ensures that whatever happens you still have the game)
Apply the 242 patch

Hopefully you will then have both versions of the game - I'm sorry, but I don't think there is a 'legitimate' way of acquiring CiC or FW - pray tell anyone out there!!
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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 04, 2000).]

Sten Sture · February 4, 2000, 14:24

Lazlo - not from Argentina, but I watch a lot of Fox Sports World when I'm not civing, and they carry Argentine league games on Sunday evenings and replay on Thursday night. Caught some River & San Lorenzo last night, but I haven't been watching a lot of the pre-season games.

There is a Sao Paolo guy here on the site that is always talking-up Brazilian football, so it is good to have an Argie along to offset his ranting!
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited February 04, 2000).]