Introducing the Medieval Pack II v1.0 Alpha - Page 6

jkadabomb · January 18, 2001, 18:33

Is the frenzy AI going to be integrated into the MedMod anytime soon?

WesW · January 20, 2001, 09:43

Tim, the disappearing granaries is a bug I made. I was testing to see what happened to buildings when their obsoleting advance was discovered, and I used the Granary as my test subject. I simply forgot to change it back.
Probably the simplest thing to do would be for you guys to go into the buildings.txt, find the Granary, and delete the "Obsoleteadvance" line.

Thomas, I must have placed a version of the tileimp.txt into the 0001 folder with one of the early text versions. If you had it, then others probably have it as well.

Therefore, I would suggest that everyone delete the scen0001 folder, and unzip the Jan. 14th text update into the scenario folder again.

I thought I changed this to read "Jan. 16th", which is what it should be. I did alter the headlines to read "16th", I guess I forgot the alter the webpage too.

I don't plan to inplement the frenzy AI mod in the Med mod, since AlphaWolf is going after a different objective than I am. I have been keeping up with his work as best I can, along with that of Dale and the others here. Dale's diplomatic mod is something I would be interested in using, once he gets further along with it. The more people we have trying things and posting what they have learned, the better.

I have been talking with Harlan and Charles again, and I have decided to change the way population affects pollution in the game. For Ctp2, the programmers decided to go away from the traditional setup as far as happiness is concerned, and after discussing it, all of us think that it was a mistake.
Therefore, I have made some changes to bring population pollution into the game as a way of simulating the unhappiness cities experience as they get bigger.
I have lowered the threashold at which pop pollution starts from 16 to 6. I have also rasied the amount of pollution generated by each pop from .3 to .4. This means that you will need all available happiness improvements in your largest cities by the time of the Industrial Revolution.
To offset some unwanted side-effects of more pollution in the game, I have doubled the amount of pollution necessary to cause a global disaster, and I have lowered the crime threshold by 5, so that you will not have a higher crime rate because of the lower happiness levels.
I also lowered the max pop for cities to 8, so that you will need to have an Aqueduct to get bigger than a one-circle radius.
I am still working on how the buildings in the game will be set to deal with this new setup.

I will try and contact Chris this weekend to see how the chop spreadsheet is coming. If it is going to be a few days before it has it ready, I will post another text update.

For those of you new to the Med mod, let me go over installation and play once again:

Unzip the components of the mod into the game's scenario folder (you need Winzip to do this). That's it.

For the Alpha verison, only the lower, Domestic version of the mod works. If you get error messages about units or governments, etc. when you try to play, it most likely means that you tried to play the upper verison of the mod.

Note for everyone:

There is a bug in the game right now which corrupts scenario game files when you exit the game. The files will load correctly the first time you go back in and play the game, but the second time you try the files will not work. Some of us are trying to find an answer to this, and I will do my best to have this issue resolved by the time the beta comes out. This may mean putting the files into the original game section, rather than the scenario section. I do not believe there will be a problem with this concerning the graphics, since we should not be over-writing any files. It will be different concerning the text portion of the game, but if worst comes to worst, we will simply have the same situation we had with the aidata files in Ctp1, meaning I will make available a zip of the original text files for you to swap the scenario files out with should you want to switch back and forth. If it is true that you cannot use scenarios in multi-play, this idea may be better all the way around.

Concerning Activision's apparent withdrawal of support for Ctp2:

I am disheartened like the rest of you to learn that Activision has apparently stopped work on any future patches or updates for the game. However, please do not give up playing the game. I think that we have all we need to make this the best civ game ever, and if you leave now, you will be depriving yourself of all the fun and enjoyment that this game will provide, when properly finished.
If we can get everything implemented in the game that I have planned, and I see no reason why we can't, then we are going to have a game unrivaled by any other on the market in terms of challenge, enjoyment and realistic experiences.
When I get the beta out and balanced, I think everyone is going to be blown away by what they see. And, when the public release version is ready, well, it just keeps getting better.
Hang in there, enjoy the game, and wait for what is in store in the upcoming weeks. I feel sure you will be happy that you did.

jkadabomb · January 20, 2001, 11:46

Actually you dont need winzip to unzip it, you can use the unzipper integrated with WindowsME

kormer · January 20, 2001, 15:18

Gosh, now OS's have integrated zippers? Hell I'm still using good old pkzip for dos...

Keep up the good work, I'm really looking forward to your changes to the game.

Action · January 20, 2001, 17:57

I would like to bring up something that you may or may not have thought of, but that could become a big problem. By increasing pollution as you describe you will achieve your intended goal however there will be another result as well. Pollution tiles.

With the default pollution settings the amount of pollution tiles generated is simply absurd. For example by the Renaissance most of my top cities had 50% or more of their city radius as pollution tiles. These cities were mainly farmed plains and grasslands, with not many hills/mines at all. These cities had full infrastructure, but there was just no way to clean up or reduce pollution since the improvements were just not available.

Now considering that polluted tiles cannot even have roads or railroads this level of pollution is just not historically accurate, and the modifications you suggest may increase this problem. I really don't think there were large amounts of land so polluted in 1500 that you couldn't build a road through them.

Keep up the good work, hopefully someday your mod will make CTP2 playable.

Pintello · January 21, 2001, 15:49

Hi Wes and Wouter,

I have run into a problem with the Jan. 16th release of the Med Mod 2 Alpha. When I load the scenario and play it, things work fine. However, once I save it and then try to play the saved game I get a Slic Error. The text of that slic error is as follows.

In object MM2_TryMilitia, cariables 'MM2_TryMilitia#tmploc' and 'noname' are of different types.

This error comes up every time someone in the game gets a new Militia unit due to a new city being founded or a city growing to the point where a new militia is available. What happens is the game gets kicked out to windows and this error message comes up. I am then able to go back down to the Start Bar on the bottom and bring up the current CTP game. Unfortunately the error appears again when another AI gets a new militia. This keeps on until all the AI turns have gone by and my turn has gone by. This also happens if I get a militia that turn as well. If an AI is not getting a new militia that turn, the game goes right by them just like it is suppose to.

I did not have this problem until this most recent release of the slic files. Any ideas or suggestions about what I can do to resolve this issue?

I am running Windows 2000 on an AMD k6-233 computer with 64 mb or RAM.

Regards,
Timothy Pintello

Pintello · January 21, 2001, 15:50

Sorry, double post.
[This message has been edited by Pintello (edited January 21, 2001).]

Pintello · January 21, 2001, 15:53

Sorry, triple post.
[This message has been edited by Pintello (edited January 21, 2001).]

overflow · January 21, 2001, 16:48

Wes

If you mean corrupted game, being reverting to the production files then this is what I have discovered.

One thing I have noticed about playing any user made scenarios is that each time you quit and load the game you want the program reverts to the original propduction files. What I have to do is start a new game, select the mod you want, then hit BACK, then load the game you want. The first time you do this the date will look something like this (Jan 315 BC). If you save this and go thru the whole procedure againg the date will be correct.

Of course we both have to be talking about the same thing for any of the above to make sense.

WesW · January 21, 2001, 19:43

I forgot to mention earlier that I had lowered the possibility of getting a dead tile to offset the increased production in the game.
I also forgot to mention that I have halved the number of Caravans that it takes to establish a trade route over a given distance.

The big news today is that, after consulting with Don, Mark, Harlan and Paul, I have decided to move the Med mod out of the scenario section and into the default section of the game. I believe that I can give the mod files customized names, like MMunits.txt, and simply replace the gamefile.txt, which tells the game which files to load, and in what order. Thus, players will only have to switch out this one file in order to go between the Med mod and the original game (or another mod, should other mod-makers decide to go this route).
Besides the scenario bugs, this will allow the proper use of the new civs portion of Harlan's graphics mod.
I will have to re-arrange the sprite numbers so that they will not interfere with the default files, but this should not be a big problem, and would have to have been done anyway due to changes that have occurred over the course of the Alpha version.
The main point is that players will need to delete the Medieval Pack II scenario and download all 4 parts of the mod once again when the beta comes out. Trying to move portions of the mod over from the scenario section will not work.

As to when the beta will be ready, that hinges on when Chris will be able to get the chop spreadsheet back to me. I am pretty much finished with everything else that can be done before getting into implementing the new advances and all the heavy work that the chop sheet will make much easier. Suffice it to say that it will be at least a few days before the beta is posted.

January 21, 2001, 21:01

quote:

Originally posted by WesW on 01-21-2001 06:43 PM
I believe that I can give the mod files customized names, like MMunits.txt, and simply replace the gamefile.txt, which tells the game which files to load, and in what order.

hey Wes, i think this can actually be done!

i created a units-markg.txt in the defualt folder with only one change: the sprite of the settler changed to the sprite of the pikeman. a change of units.txt in the gamefile.txt to [/i]units-markg.txt[/i] and this is the result

preacherman · January 22, 2001, 16:28

Wes Mark,
How will changing back an forth between files affect saved games?

Paul · January 22, 2001, 17:32

You should make sure that you continue a saved game with the same set of files that you used to start the game. If you do that there should be no problems.

Diodorus Sicilus · January 22, 2001, 19:58

Potential Problem:
I've managed to run three quick games using the latest, 16 - 17 Jan download of MedMod text files in the past four days, none of them longer than 150 turns (I haven't got the long blocks of time to play further, and with the save bug, when I quit I don't bother to save 'em). Here's the (possible) problem: Barbarians.
They harass my cities, destroy tile improvements, attack units, even form up into 6 - 7 unit stacks. BUT they never, never, never attack any cities. I've checked all the ai opponents in each game, and I have yet to find a city taken by babarians. I have in three games never even had a city attacked by barbarians, even in cases where there was only one defending unit, no city walls or other defensive improvements, and a stack of 3 - 4 barbarians nearby. - In other words, they shoulda took it, and didn't.
First, has anyone else noticed the same problem?
Second, if somehow the barbies are now constrained from attacking cities, how does it get fixed? This is particularly annoying to me because the most satisfying game of CtPII I've played so far was using CD's risks.txt from the CD.Mod for CtP in which, out of 8 civs in the game, by 600 BC 2 of them had been destroyed by barbarians and one entire continent was infested by 9 to 12 high stacks of barbarian warriors. That, to me, is the minimum danger barbarians should present at the highest level of barbarian activity (I'd also like 'em to build stronger units as time goes by, but first things first), but we seem to have lost it in the shuffling...

WesW · January 23, 2001, 15:37

Charles, I checked the strategies.txt, and saw a setting that *might* have caused the problem you describe. If I had to guess, though, I would say to check the scen0001 aidata folder, and see if it contains a strategies.txt. If it does, delete it. There was a bug that caused the problem you dscribed in an earlier version of the mod, but I fixed it weeks ago.

On a more positive note, Gedrin is doing the chop spreadsheet today, so I should be able to begin the final phase of the beta soon. I am guessing, but I hope to have it up by the weekend.

-------------------------------------------
W.C. Fields, and his niece are falling down a cliff in a basket:
"What I wouldn't give for a Maxwell Parachute."

"What is a Maxwell Parachute, Uncle?"

"Good to the last drop, my dear."
[This message has been edited by WesW (edited January 23, 2001).]

hexagonian · January 24, 2001, 09:21

Wes,

Quick question about pollution/happiness...

What files did you have to go into to make the following changes. I was able to to locate the other file changes that you recommended.

1. raise the amount of pollution generated by each pop from .3 to .4.

2. lowered the crime threshold by 5

3. lowered the max pop for cities to 8

4. lowered the possibility of getting a dead tile to offset the increased production in the game

I'm looking forward to the MedMod - with Activision 'washing their hands' of CTP2, I had always felt that the MedMod would clean up any game flaws.
[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited January 24, 2001).]

wheathin · January 24, 2001, 11:23

Hex,

The ammount of pollution generated by each population point is set in DiffDB.txt - it varies by difficulty evel; default is 15 pollution per person over the limit. The limit is at the same place in DiffDB.txt.

The max populations for cities are in the citysizeXX.txt files. Each of the six files corresponds to a different level (easy, hard, impossible).

WesW · January 25, 2001, 10:59

Thanks, Wheathin. I had been wondering why there were six citysize files.

The deadtile flag is in the const.txt (see my notes in the latest text version).

For the pollution per pop, I had to run some experiments. Take the diffdb number and multiply it by .02 to convert to the pollution per pop (don't ask me why).

Crime offset is the happiness level below which you have a 1 percent increase in crime for each number. It is in the govern.txt.

Savant · January 30, 2001, 01:19

Yes tactical Grace, that was also the case with MedMod I. Wes rules!

------------------
'Blood will run'

TacticalGrace · January 30, 2001, 01:55

Have been played med mod from 12th January. The new AI is great! On impossible level I've been having great big battles with the AI, with his armies spearheading into my empire and picking out a weak city. I've had to rush armies over to counter attack and recapture the lost city.

This is what I've been waiting for all this time.

The save-game bug has got me once though.

One big problem is the gold situation. At the beginning of the game everything is fine. But later on when I'm in republic, just coming into the industrial age and have built lots of city improvements my cash flow starts running negative. Now this can be solved by lower science a bit and dropping wages but I can't really understand where all the loses are coming from. How do the costs for city improvements work? are the listed values in the city screen per population point? This is the only explanation I can think of - I should be drawing in loads of cash from trading posts, caravans and bazaars/banks.

still, better than the situation without the mod - endless millions without any effort.

anyway, cool mod. Wes, you deserve the cash I shelled out for CTP2 as much as Activision...

ash

TacticalGrace · January 30, 2001, 06:19

Wes, can you (or anyone else) explain how cash flow is calculated in Med Mod?

Also I'm confused with trade - the advice screen says that my profit from trade is 1000 gold but looking at the trade summary, I'm making a total of about half that. What's going on?

In civ2 you always knew where you stood with trade/gold/science.

TacticalGrace · January 30, 2001, 09:42

looking at the latest tech tree posting on your website:

* can't find Democracy
* paper currency lets you build pikemen?
* zulu warrior? I think you should get rid of samurai while your at it.

WesW · January 30, 2001, 19:02

Thanks for the compliments, guys.

My experiment with a new way of improvement upkeep is what is throwing off your gold calculations. I am going back to the standard system for all but 2 improvements in the beta, so this should not be a confusing item anymore.

Charles (Diodorus) is working on historical gls for the mod, but they probably won't ready until the public release. They will explain the seeming oddities in the tech tree. Everyone is going to be amazed when they see how everything fits together.
Harlan and I have been trading emails today making further refinements to the tree, mainly links and so-forth, and even he is amazed at how well everything is shaping up. For you history buffs out there, I believe that the more you study the tree, the more impressed you will be.

I am just about finished with the readmes for the beta. These will clear up most, if not all, of the confusion with the new things in the mod.
Chris sent me the chop spreadsheet this afternoon, and I will get into it once I finish with the readmes. The beta *should* be ready by the weekend, baring unexpected delays.

Diodorus Sicilus · January 31, 2001, 00:56

TacticalGrace (and others interested) - a few quick answers...
1. Democracy is under the advance Human Rights. Wes took all the separate Government Advances out and put governments under advances that enable them. Human Rights comes from Nationalism and Age of Reason, gives you Democracy, Lawyers, and Emanciptaion Act. It's related to both the American Constitution/Dec of Independance and the French Revolutionary "Rights of Man".
2. Paper Currency lets you build Pikemen and Banks. This is related to the invention of Instruments of Credit and paper Bills of Exchange by Italian bankers in the 13th century and by money lenders working the big regional 'Fairs" - which were actually the first big international Trade entrepots in Europe since the Roman Empire. Paper Currency, then, enhanced and expanded income brought in by trade of all kinds and increased the money supply, especially in the cities. These cities in turn both could and had to increase their civic militias, which were almost all composed of varieties of pikemen (and crossbowmen or archers). The increased money supply also led increasingly to troops being hired and paid instead of called up by Feudal Obligation, and the mercenary foot troops were, again, almost always pikemen - Swiss and Landsknechts of the 15th century being the prime examples.
3. Zulu Warriors, Samurai, Legions, and others are all units obtained by building certain (cheap) Wonders. Therefore, only one civ will have Zulu Warriors, one will have Samurai, etc. Wes is trying to sneak some military specializing by civ into the game, ala AoE or AoK. Difference is, depending on how a particular game goes, it might be the Bantu who build Samurai and the Japanese building Legions!

TacticalGrace · January 31, 2001, 06:28

Good to see the amount of thought that's going into the tech tree. not hard to improve on the activision version (democracy depending on fascism? what were they thinking?) but you've gone well beyond that.

The version of Med Mod appears to have a big fat bug though, and I've not seen it in the unmodified version of CTP2. When I'm moving troops into a city area of influence (white dotted line) or skirting round this area I sometimes cannot move the unit onto an empty square. The "move vector" is green indicating that it is a valid move (and I've been playing CTP/civ for years and I know a valid move when I see one) but the unit just sits tight. It's very strange and quite annoying - I had to give up on taking a city yesterday because I couldn't get to it.

has anyone else seen this?

Pintello · January 31, 2001, 10:33

Hi TacticalGrace,

Yes, I have seen this problem too. Whenever it happens, I just move the unit/units around to a different position and try again. Eventually you will be able to get into a position to attack the city. Also, if I remember correctly this problem does not occur every time and I have never seen it occure when the troops are on a road. This indicates that the problem may somehow be related to terrain.

Timothy Pintello

TacticalGrace · January 31, 2001, 14:21

Thanks for the response Pintello.
At least I know now it's not just me.

I've seen it on all kind of terrain and with and without roads.

Harlan · January 31, 2001, 16:18

A while back, I tried implementing a portion of the militia code from Wes' mod for the Alex scenario. I soon had to disable that code, because of the exact problem you mention. If there was a square that had an enemy militia unit in it, sometimes you couldn't get near that city, but sometimes you could. I'll bet if you look at your save games, every time that happens there's a militia unit involved. Someone needs to look into this.
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited January 31, 2001).]

Locutus · January 31, 2001, 21:07

Hmm. Why didn't anyone tell me before? I had these problems too but since no-one else had them, I simply assumed it was me somehow. Now I'm starting to experience them outside the MedMod as well and always when I'm testing out new SLIC code, so they're probably a SLIC bug. These problems are probably ZOC related: the militia's seem to somehow cast some weird forms of ZOC.

Up to 5 minutes ago I didn't have a clue as to what was causing it or how to solve it, though I've always suspected it somehow had something to do with killing units (possibly creating them). Just 5 minutes ago I figured it might be possible to solve this by disbanding units instead of killing them. I haven't tested it yet but will do so tomorrow (it's 2 AM over here). If anyone is interested, I uploaded an improved version of scenario.slc that I was about to send to Wes to my website (here). It contains the (hopefully) fixed militia code, a working version of the partisan code and a (probably) bugfree version of the unit repair code. It should replace the scenario.slc file in the scen0001 folder of Wes's scenario pack. If you try it, let me know how it works. I'm very curious about this one.

TacticalGrace · February 1, 2001, 07:20

I don't see the link between unit creation/destruction code and units being unable to move.

I would be much more suspicious of the "prevent Militia units from moving" code. but then again that doesn't entirely make sense either (because you can still move into certain squares).

If the fix doesn't work it might be worth putting in user notifications into some of the SLIC events just to see what's being triggered.

anyway, I'll have a play tonight.