Question For OCC Scenario/Save File Creators

[John-SJ]

How do you get the specials that you want for an OCC start position? I tried creating a random map and then playing with the seed, but when I load the map the seed seems to be "reshuffled" every time I start it. What's the point of being able to set the seed in the map editor if it is changed when you load the map into the game?

Is there some "secret way to set the seed in the cheat menu or the scenario menu? Or do you just have to keep trying 'til you get a "good" seed value and then save?

John-SJ

[Smash]

What I do(probably not the right way but works) is load a game with whatever world settings you want.Save it into the map folder.

Load the map with the map editor and do want you want to the land.Save.Remember the co-ordinates of any special locations

Start a game on a premade world loading that map you've "created" as white.Don't randomize resources or huts.Now use the cheat menu to reveal map and create/destroy units,edit techs,king etc.Use "set human player" to make adjustments to civs.

Reset map to "no special view".Set game year to 0 and save it as a scenario.


Thats the "refuse to look at manual" technique

[Tom DeMille]

It sounds like you were trying to change the seed in the map editor - maybe you were choosing a new random number. Try hitting the "s" key and switch the seed to something other that 1 (I think it can go up to 30000). If the actual seed value remains 1, then it is considered a random seed when you reload the map. When I load a map that has a seed other than 1, the game will ask me it will ask me if I want to randomize starting huts and special resources. If I choose no, then the specials and huts will be as they were in the map editor.

You can also place the particular civilization you want onto the map (others will be placed randomly when you play the map). It will ask if you want to randomize starting civ location. Choose no.

I didn't read the manual either , so this might not be right the right way to do it either. Good luck.

[John-SJ]

Oops! Hehe.

I got it now, looks like I caused the problem myself. I set the seed in the map editor, and then expected the seed to still be there in a game starting on the premade map. I know, you're saying, "That *is* how it works". Well, normally, anyway. The problem is that, not knowing I couldn't, i tried a seed starting with the letter "A", just trying to see if the seed could be hexadecimal. In the map editor it worked fine, but the game it seems does not recognize this and started with a random seed anyway, never asking me if I wanted to randomize resources or not.

Thanks guys!

John-SJ
edit: spelling
[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited March 12, 2000).]

[Sten Sture]

When I have done comparison games here is how I did it:

I start a game with whatever settings I want.
I open the cheat menu and save it as a scenario.

Then I reveal the entire map.
I don't change the resource seed, but I edit the terrain so the specials hidden under grassland show up.
I may edit terrain to make it more likely for the AI to build in good locations, by making the best locations grassland and clearing forrests/swamps in the center of 4 specials.
I may edit terrain to help the AI...they won't irrigate swamps and jungles, but they do irrigate tundra, so I may change those tiles.
I may move civs by creating units in a new spot and then deleting the old units.
I may round off bays and peninsulas to help the AI get around.
I may build or remove land bridges.
I edit back out the revealed map, and

save it again as a scenario.

[vik]

If you follow Sten's advice, you will be making a scenario. I do it a different way, but Sten got me started on the right track.

"Who once was the student, now is the master."
-- Darth Vader

I go into the map editor first. I load up a random map and work from there. The absolute first thing I do is to assign a seed. If you forget to do this, you will get the default and random seed of #1 assigned to you.

This would be bad.

If you have seed #1, all your specials and huts will be spread all over in a random pattern. So just set the seed and work with it.

I do all the large terrain mods here in the map editor. I find it easier and quicker to do it here than in the cheat mode.

Once I'm happy with the terrain, I place the civs in the starting squares. You only have to place seven, but remember which seven you place and write them down. I usually go right down the right side with celts, japanese, vikings, spanish, persians, carths, and sioux. easy to remember.

Once you are totally done with the map, save it and start civ2.

Start the game on a premade world, and load the map you just saved. You do NOT want to randomize the starting locations or the specials.

IMPORTANT: After you choose "raging hordes" for barbarians, the "Select Game Rules" box will pop up. You want to customize the rules.

Another box will pop up where you want to choose to "Select Computer Opponents"

Now, you choose the same AI civs that you placed on your map when you were in map editor mode. Do you remember which ones you placed? I went down the right side, so I just pick the last Civ offered in each box.

The reason you do this is so you wont have any civs starting in random locations. Example, if you placed the Celts somewhere in the map editor, and you let the computer randomly pick the computer opponents, the program may choose the Romans instead of the Celts. When the program accesses your map, there is no place for the Romans, so the Romans get placed randomly, and the Celts site disappears.

Now you go into cheat mode and finalize any last minute changes you want, including any additional terrain mods you want, contact, extra units, technologies, etc. Save as a scenario. Let's give it the name "TESTER" and you're almost done.

You'll notice that the game gives you a "Rome" scenario and a "WWII" scenario. You may also notice that if you look up the files in the /mps/civ2 directory, there is a "Rome.scn" file and a "WWII.scn" file. There is also a "Rome" file and a "WWII" file with no file extension. Those two files are the text files that go along with the scenarios. They pop up when you begin the scenario and tell you about the scenario.

Double-click on the "WWII" file and edit out all the WWII scenario information and put in your own description of your own scenario. Save it as "Tester" or whatever you saved your scenario as. If the Text file name matches the Scenario file name, the text box will pop up for the player.

This is a neat touch and will tell the player a little about the scenario.

Hope it helps.

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks a lot, vik - I learnt quite a bit from that - but one small point - the text file does have an extension it is a '.txt' file - the notepad default and hence unless you change the default settings does not appear in a Windows listing

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Sten Sture]

quote: Originally posted by vik on 03-18-2000 01:29 PM "Who once was the student, now is the master." -- Darth Vader

LoL!

to quote Ben Stein:

"I bow to your superior knowledge!"

Thanks, this helps a lot; of course I still need to play about 4 of these games...

[Tom DeMille]

The "city.txt" file contains the names of cities for the various civs. I would heartily encourage people who are making OCC scenarios to NOT change these system files.

I used the Edit King option on the cheat menu for the OCC #5 game. Did anybody notice? How did I get the capital city of the AIs to be correct (Ottawa for Canadians, etc.), you might ask? I simply let the game run for 2 turns, until the AIs had founded their capitals. I then renamed them.

[Aurelius]

Wow, should have read this thread before I started my first scenario! I was going to ask how one makes the text box, but Vik seems to have answered this.

Am I right in the assumption that river can only be edited through the map edit?

I also found the Edit King selection Tom mentioned--very handy...this must be how Sten and SG[1] changed the names in their scenarios too. Have any of you fooled around with the attitude settings?

I hope MProse improves the mapedit and cheat mode in Civ 3....there are so many pitfalls as things stand!


AU --but it is fun and enlightening making a scenario.

[vik]

Tom -- I'll take a look at the city.txt file. It's not really a problem for me to copy a file, rename one version to a backup file-name, and then edit the other version.

The problem is, in my opinion, is when you are creating a scenario for others to use. You would have to include this altered file as part of the download, and then you wouldn't know the expertise of the guy recieving the download. I would feel really bad if one of my scenarios caused someone else's game to mess up. All the minutes spent trying to figure out the problem, when they should be enjoying a scenario?

Just not worth it for me.

Maybe I could write a program or a batch file or something...

Aurelius -- I haven't messed with the attitudes yet, but it is something I've been meaning to do. The first time I tried messing around with it, I loaded the "WWII" scenario that came with the game, and for whatever reason, I chose to be the neutrals. Here's what's funny: EVERY TIME I tried to contact the Russians, the first thing they always said was "PREPARE FOR WAR!" I never even had a chance to talk or give gifts or anything.

So I suspect the civ2 makers altered the Russian attitude toward the Neutrals. Maybe you'll want to investigate that further--I haven't done so yet.

But be careful -- some people play 2.4.2 and some play MPG. The reputation the MPG AI civs have is already nasty enough. Maybe make two scenarios to go with each version...?

Also, as far as I can tell, the map editor is the only way you can place river squares.

good luck!

[vik]

SG-1, good point. I knew they were actually *.txt files, so I was careful to refer to them as text files. I assume most people would view this from the default windows95 folder type view, but certainly if you go to the DOS prompt and type a 'dir' command, the *.txt file extension shows up.

_____________________________


Here's another goodie for making scenarios.

While in the cheat mode, before you save it as a scenario, go down to the "Edit King" option. There, you will get a list of all of the Civs that are in existance.

Pick one of the civs that you plan on being an AI civ (for an example, let's use the Celts). After you select "Celts," you will get a wide range of options you can customize to make life hard or easy on the humans that play the game.

I want to draw your attention to the "Edit Name" option. When you click that, you can put in whatever name for the king and the AI civ he (or she) controls. You may choose to make the King's name "Lothar" and the tribe's name the "Hill People" or whatever.

If you're really into scenario stuff, you can make the tribes match what you want to portray in the scenario. I read "The Hobbitt" a long time ago -- wasn't there a battle of 6 great tribes at the end? I don't know, but that's where this can be useful. Just make sure you toggle the female flag to match the King (or Queen).

Of course, for the purposes of scenarios, this isn't useful if the wrong AI civs ally or fight each other.

Example: "Spies report the Russians have allied with the Chechnyans."

But it's something to play with.

Of course the AI cities will still have the names of the default Civ. For the Celts, there cities will still be Cardiff, Kells, etc., but I've heard there is a way you can mess with some of the files in the game to make even this aspect authentic.

I'm a bit weary of editing files like this, and if you're like me, the above explanation details the safe way to make a more accurate scenario.

as always, have fun with it.

[Tom DeMille]

quote: Originally posted by vik on 03-20-2000 10:56 PM The problem is, in my opinion, is when you are creating a scenario for others to use. You would have to include this altered file as part of the download

Yes, it's all very well to happily screw around with your own files (which we've probably all done), but quite another to screw up someone elses!

[Sten Sture]

FYI - when I have created unique civ names or leaders, I did it at the start of the game thru the "custom rules" menu and "select opponents" and then "custom" the civ and/or leader. I haven't changed any of the *.txt files; though I have been messing around with some more "scenario" type full changes. (in lieu of playing)

There should be a decent Venice/Genoa; HongKong/Macao or Vatican type of OCC scenario out there with a unique tech tree and unit graphics, and an accurate map. There is 3 months worth of work for anyone that wants to take up the challenge!!!

[Sten Sture]

Tom - you have to pray very hard!

[Tom DeMille]

The Vatican winning the race to AC. That would be something to see!

[vik]

I may have broken the code!

veteran scenario builders that visit this thread, please try to refrain from laughing at me.

Okay, I found out there is a whole scenario-building section right here on this hallowed section of cyberspace. Based on direction by Sten in SG2's "Events" thread, I visited it.

Twas like my civ2 Holy Grail or something. Sadly, I could not find too many Scenarios designed for my 2.4.2 version, but I did find something.

Apparently, you can edit the cities.txt and all that other junk, and pass it on to someone else, and not have that other person back up their files.

If I downloaded a scenario called "cool.zip" I would just merely have to make a "cool" subdirectory in the civ2 subdirectory, unzip the contents of "cool.zip" into that "cool" subdirectory, and begin the game and load the scenario. It seems the game play will default to the cities.txt file in the "cool" subdirectory instead of the default cities.txt found in the "civ2" directory.

Is this correct? Is it that easy?

You can also, it seems, edit the "units.gif" file to provide unique units for your scenario, and as long as that's in your "cool" subdirectory, then it will access those and no back-ups are necessary for the other users.

I hope this is correct. I'm a little weary about editing any of the ".gif" files, because it seems really precise and touchy, but I'll learn. i'm going to put together a (hopefully) wonderful scenario and I promise to do it by the year 2003!

[Sten Sture]

Food box is almost full, but no baby yet. Since War4ever rush-built little Phoenix, I slowed down the production to match the April 4 due date.

I have DL'ed SacBlood and looked through the gif files and read the readme file, but I haven't started it yet. I have been doing a lot of Happiness improvement rush-building to make sure the new population head in Sten City doesn't throw me into disorder. What civ time I have had (read 'been allowed') has been devoted to playing Michael Dauman's excellent Great Game scenario, I read the book recently and it really brings it alive. I am playing it in MGE and you really have to stay on your toes (or heels) to keep your alliances in line. I also have RedFront ready to go, which will take some time. Enjoying them all quite a bit. Sac blood is actually three different scenarios and I would like to run the third one in Multiplay with you some day - doesn't look like anytime soon. (keeping your brother out of trouble is also taking up a lot of my civ time)

[Steve Clark]

Sten: That was cool!

BTW, which book did you read recently? I just got a flyer from the History Book Club for 'Tournament of Shadows' in which the authors take the Great Game beyond its traditional end point of 1917 up to 1943. I'm only vaguely familiar with this history, definitely not one of my areas of expertise.
[This message has been edited by Steve Clark (edited March 28, 2000).]

[Sten Sture]

The book is by Peter Hopkirk and is called The Great Game: The Struggle for Empire in Central Asia it is excellent and it inspired Dauman to make his scenario. I knew very little of this history prior to this read. I would think it is available through the History Book Club for cheap!

Hopkirk was a reporter for the London Times, and writes amazingly well. He has two other volumes in the trilogy - Like Hidden Fire (German/Turkish plotting around WW1 in the Caucasus) and Setting the East Ablaze: Lenin's Dream of an Empire in Asia.

He also wrote Tresspassers on the Roof of the World: The Secret Exploration of Tibet.

Tournament of Shadows sounds like a good subject, and only partly overlaps the 1920s setting for Setting the East Ablaze. Where are we going to get the time to read all of this stuff???

[Sten Sture]

vik - now you can see what I meant by (in lieu of playing) customizing your own .gif files requires learning PaintShopPro and understanding events, etc.

If anyone has yet to check out some scenario files, it is well worth it to get a copy of FW or MGE just to be able to play these works of art. In many cases they put the original game to shame - all new units, all new terrain, detailed story lines... etc. Check them out!

[Steve Clark]

Sten: That reminds me, have you played Sacrificial Blood yet? I have yet to download this massive file.

BTW my friend, has the baby arrived?