Can someone describe, and give pros and cons of Europa Universalis?

[Slax]

Europa Universalis

I have been to the web pages and forum of this game and it looks interesting. I'd like it if some people could list (a) the game parameters (decisions) controlled by the player, and/or (b) give your opinion of the pros and cons of this game.

Thanks

[Imran Siddiqui]

I can do pros and cons.

Pros: One of the most in depth historical strategy/simulations you've ever played. A cross between Civ, Risk, Diplomacy, and Imperialism. You have to balance money, technology, religion (especially with the Reformation and all), colonization, trade, and war. Very complex and good.

Cons: The complexity might get to some people. It is real time, but with pause function, but real time might turn people off. Some parts can be a bit boring.

[Ribannah]

Can you scroll the map, make decisions etc. during a pause? If so, real-time shouldn't be a problem, it would be like Transport Tycoon.



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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[John-SJ]

Yes, the map scrolls, it also has a very nice multi-level zoom, you can get close up and deal with a few provinces or step waaay back to see a large strategic area. And yes, the only thing you can't do during a pause is watch time advance. Any other action can be taken during pauses.

John-SJ

[Father Beast]

GAK!!!
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!!!

Is this the 5th or 6th EU thread in this forum?!?!?!

sorry, just sort of exploded

[John-SJ]

That's OK Beast, all is forgiven. Now go buy the game so you can make your own comments!

John-SJ

[Leonidas]

Here is an overview of the game:

1) covers 300 years from 1492 to 1792.

2) time advances continually, but there is a pause button. ALL game functions can be conducted while the game is paused. It feels more like a turn-based game - having the clock ticking just adds a little tension.

3) you can play up to 90 different nations (potentially)

4) there are 500 historical missions to choose from

5) over 200 historical events occur (hey, this is historical)

6) 800 named provines, 550 named sea zones

7) map is huge! The entire world folks. Even when playing a smaller scenario, you play on the world map - so all other nations carry on as usual.

8) there is military development. trade issues, trade embargoes, political annexations, royal marriages, diplomacy, colonization, alliances, seiges, supply issues, weather conditions, attrition, historical commanders and leaders, tech research, ... well, you get the idea...


PROS:

All of the above. This is the biggest strategy game I have ever played. It has a beautiful manual (127 pages). You will learn a lot about history, and have fun too. Many more scenarios, campaigns, etc are being made for this game. Very high support by the game's developer.


CONS:

Depending on your computer system, some people have experienced crashes. Most people have not. The game developer, Paradox, is committed to fixing this game the very best that it can. I am impressed with its level of committment to this game.

This game can suck the time right out of your day. When you think you've just played one hour, 4 hours have passed - a very addictive game (is this a negative?)

I highly recommend this game. It is very thoughtful, and requires some study and attention to the finer points of the game. If you like Civ games, Alph Centauri, Imperialism, Master of Orion II, type games, then you are going to love this game.

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Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

[Moral Hazard]

Leonidas did a good job of going over the parameters of the game. So I'll just tell you what I liked and disliked about the game.

Pros: Very complex, with tons of diplomatic actions. Highly addictive.

Cons: It has crashed on me but only during movies and right after saving . I think MP needs at least ISDN for net play.

Countries get real pissy when you completely annex another country of the same religion. Which is bad for me cause I love war. So Im playing Turkey I've already declared war on 4 of my neighbors (at different times of course, annexed Georgia and Moldovia, Converted the Mamaluks from Sheite (I think) to sunnite. and took two territories from Venice. Needless to say the relations map is dark red almost every where.

All in all it's a lot of fun.

[JimMac]

Is it OK if I give a different view?

My tastes in strategy games are mostly TB such as Civ2, CTP1, HOMM, SMAC, but also some RTS such as the Caesar series, 7 Kingdoms, Majesty and to a lesser extent AOK, (too arcade like, but that’s another story)

I bought Europa Universalis on Friday and worked solidly (and I mean worked) over the weekend at trying to get in to it. I really, really want to enjoy this game but so far I have to say that what fun there is, is buried under the effort required to get anywhere.

Some specifics.

The interface. The interface is awful. If you thought that CTP took a while to get used to you haven’t seen anything yet. It is too often silent on why certain things that you would intuitively expect to happen don’t. Some menus clear by right clicking, while others don’t; -you need to find the “go back” button. Regions on the map frequently change colour depending on what menu you are on, but often with little obvious meaning. At the beginning I can promise you a highly entertaining time trying to figure out how to manage your armies, while trying to select the correct icon in a small province in the world map is a case of trial and error. Yes, getting used to the interface is a major task.

You may say “Look at the manual then,”
Well, no matter how quirky the interface is, it is not as bad as the manual. Apart from a few actual errors, the translation ( which it must be?) is very poor. There is no contents or index pages, so trying to find anything that you actually want is pretty much impossible. When the meandering economic and history lessons that make up the bulk of the manual appear to be heading towards something useful that may help with the game, you come across its most common phrase –“more about this later”. OK, so this is a slight exaggeration, but I would seriously recommend anyone hoping to play this game to read the manual with a notebook upon which you can record anything useful.

So how else to get into this game? If the interface is so unintuitive and the manual such a chore? ,-Why the tutorial of course!
Ha!
The tutorial (which doesn’t correlate with the tutorial guide in the manual), lasts between 6 to 8 hours. So what? Surely that should then mean that it goes through everything you need to know in great detail? ‘Fraid not. It often tells you what to do but doesn’t tell you how the game wants you to do it. But even if it did, the killer is that there is no save game in the tutorial. What a design decision, an 8 hour tutorial with no save!

The final straw for me this morning was a bug which is preventing me from receiving any more missions.(Yes, I d/loaded the latest patch). In a game that runs from 1492 to 1792 I have to hold on to a certain province until the year 3158 when I will receive my next mission.

I have experienced many more frustrating moments with this game over the last weekend. (For example why when I have 2 armies in a province where I wish to rebalance the forces by using the reorganise button, I suddenly have 3 armies? What is the best way to merge armies? How do you tell the best way to combine arms anyway?)

Despite all the above, I feel that there is a potentially good game hidden underneath the frustration. I can understand why PC Gamer UK slated it though. I shall try again, but if there is no light soon, it is going back to EB tomorrow.

Jim

[Imran Siddiqui]

Interface? I actually like it. Only problem is it is always in 800*600 mode, which makes the interface take up too much room, but it actually works well (except for the religion map, which shouldn't be buried).

And don't do the tutorial. GC, or some of the mini scenarios... like Prussia in the Age of Revolutions.

[Par4]

Well I still think the interface sucks

But I need a new computer, my mouse moves way too slow across the map which pisses me off enormously.

Another thing the ctrl + - for speed doesnt work and and and on my computer you have to press shift = to zoom in where its just - to zoom out which really annoys the heck out of me

But it doesn't really matter much if I could get the speeds to work right.

Also how the heck do I make a province mine. Do I have to keep it for a certain amount of time. Do I have to have an army on it?

I really like the game, once I get taking over people down.

[Par4]

Yeah the interface sucks, it's way too much like anno 1603s which sucked horriblely. Although I've found that right clicking and getting the menu helps a lot, and I mean a lot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: Another thing the ctrl + - for speed doesnt work

Ctrl +... the '+' is on the top of the key, which means to get it you gotta press SHIFT... so it is Ctrl-Shift-(+/=).

To control provinces you have to destroy the fortress in the province, then you control it. To own it, you have to ask for it in the peace treaty.

[Father Beast]

I'm sorry, I'm just too cheap to buy a game right off the rack when new (though I may make an exception for civ3!). I saw it at the game store yesterday for 45$!!!

but I would be willing to try the demo if there is one???

[Kyle]

quote: The interface. The interface is awful. If you thought that CTP took a while to get used to you haven’t seen anything yet. It is too often silent on why certain things that you would intuitively expect to happen don’t. Some menus clear by right clicking, while others don’t; -you need to find the “go back” button. Regions on the map frequently change colour depending on what menu you are on, but often with little obvious meaning. At the beginning I can promise you a highly entertaining time trying to figure out how to manage your armies, while trying to select the correct icon in a small province in the world map is a case of trial and error. Yes, getting used to the interface is a major task.

Not really. The interface is quite useful. All the information you need is right there, either on top or available with a click or two. Games have learning curves, this might take an hour or two to get used to.

You have multiple map views. One is the regular view, where you can see armies, seasons, etc. The colors change due to seasons. The next is the political map, while the third is the resources map. Also, the colors for the diplomacy menu are either Alliances or Relations. In Alliances, the greens mean either alliance, royal marriage, or vassalage, brown means no alliance, and red means Cassus Belli. The Relations menu is quite easy too. The color of your country is the overall regard in relations to other nations (if you're deep red, they don't like you much). The other colors is how others feel about you. Ranging from deep red to dark green, with the latter being good relations. Not hard at all.

quote: You may say “Look at the manual then,” Well, no matter how quirky the interface is, it is not as bad as the manual. Apart from a few actual errors, the translation ( which it must be?) is very poor. There is no contents or index pages, so trying to find anything that you actually want is pretty much impossible. When the meandering economic and history lessons that make up the bulk of the manual appear to be heading towards something useful that may help with the game, you come across its most common phrase –“more about this later”. OK, so this is a slight exaggeration, but I would seriously recommend anyone hoping to play this game to read the manual with a notebook upon which you can record anything useful.

The lack of ToC and Index was a bad idea. I'll give you this one. I was able figure most things by playing the game, but I was able to get help from the manual.

quote: So how else to get into this game? If the interface is so unintuitive and the manual such a chore? ,-Why the tutorial of course! Ha! The tutorial (which doesn’t correlate with the tutorial guide in the manual), lasts between 6 to 8 hours. So what? Surely that should then mean that it goes through everything you need to know in great detail? ‘Fraid not. It often tells you what to do but doesn’t tell you how the game wants you to do it. But even if it did, the killer is that there is no save game in the tutorial. What a design decision, an 8 hour tutorial with no save!

Didn't play the tutorial, just jumped in on one of the scenarios. You pick a country that's rated as "Very Easy" and play around. The best way to learn a game.

quote: The final straw for me this morning was a bug which is preventing me from receiving any more missions.(Yes, I d/loaded the latest patch). In a game that runs from 1492 to 1792 I have to hold on to a certain province until the year 3158 when I will receive my next mission.

Hmm, are you sure you didn't set the game up to not play any missions? If not, go to the official forums and report it. Unlike some companies, Paradox is actively working on updates and fixes (with the next patch due out soon).

quote: I have experienced many more frustrating moments with this game over the last weekend. (For example why when I have 2 armies in a province where I wish to rebalance the forces by using the reorganise button, I suddenly have 3 armies? What is the best way to merge armies? How do you tell the best way to combine arms anyway?)

You're really streching on this one. The reason you get a third army is because there are two seperate armies. By selecting one army, you are reorganizing that army. To merge armies, simply select the province they're in, then right click on the army. Select merge. I believe you can also drag a box around them (ala the click fest games) to select both armies, then right click and merge. Now that the two armies are merged into one, you can reorganize them.

[Leonidas]

Folks - this is a very complex game. Everything works fine once you understand it. You simply can't build armies and then go marching off to war. You will be defeated every time.

There is a downloadable index for the manual at Paradox's forums. There is also a ton of advice there. My best advice is to go to those forums and you will learn everything you need to know about this game. Within a very short period of time everything will make sense. BTW in the next patch a save feature will be available for the tutorial.
http://www.europa-universalis.com/

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Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

[Dr Strangelove]

If the game prohibits the annexation of a great power, what happens if you occupy all its provinces, destroy its forts, and take its capital city?

Could you strip a great power of all its provinces by occupying them one by one and negotiating them away? If you stripped a great power down to its capital province, what would happen if you then took the capital province?

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"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

[Kyle]

Use the -/+ keys on the number key pad (along with CTRL). Works much better.

[Kyle]

That's the odd thing. I'll admit it, I'm not very good when it comes to strategy games. I love playing them, but usually, I only do well on the lower difficulty levels.

So, I did that with EU. I picked Spain, as they're the easiest to win with and have been cleaning up. It's worth it for the person who bought the game to actually invest time into it, rather than playing for a day or two and then slamming it. Set the game up on Easy and play the Grand Campaign as Spain. If you can't win with them, then maybe the game isn't for you.


Some people just won't like it, understandable (not really, but whatever but occasionally people jump the gun deciding if they like it or not.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: If the game prohibits the annexation of a great power, what happens if you occupy all its provinces, destroy its forts, and take its capital city? Could you strip a great power of all its provinces by occupying them one by one and negotiating them away? If you stripped a great power down to its capital province, what would happen if you then took the capital province?

Can't take the capital city. If you strip away the provinces, and then get to the capital, you'll only be able to take money (250-500 gold) in the peace.

[Slax]

Is trade separated into different materials? If so, what are they?

[connorkimbro]

Lots, yes. Remembering from the game i played (and i was only exposed to a small portion of the map)

Cloth, grain, fish, salt, iron, copper, gold, sugar, wine. . .hmm each with different trade values, different rarities, different places to find them. . and i'm sure theres lots more in the rest of the world . . .probably more from my game that i don't remember

[Urban Ranger]

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui on 03-05-2001 02:55 PM Can't take the capital city. If you strip away the provinces, and then get to the capital, you'll only be able to take money (250-500 gold) in the peace.

What's the logic behind this?

[Kyle]

Great Powers cannot be annexed without tweaking the game.

The Great Powers are the one's that are playable out of the box, in the GC. So, even if all their provinces are taken, they're still considered a GP and all you can do to them is get money from them.

I'm wondering if they'll include GP annexation in the next patch.

[Steve Clark]

Pros: Incredible historic modeling for a strategy game and to quote Imran, "You have to balance money, technology, religion (especially with the Reformation and all), colonization, trade, and war." Plus, war comes at a price to all facets of the game.

Cons: The Learning Curve is steepest maximus, but it didn't have to be. Even with a verbose manual and a Tutorial, neither one teaches you how to play the game. The manual needs far more gameplay examples (and less historical lessons). If any game cries out for a Straegy Guide out of the box, it's EU.

[Allemand]

You can turn off their great power status by tweaking the file, but the game is more fun when you can't annex everyone. This is not just another war game, despite the fact that most players seem to want to play it that way.

The tutorial is okay if you don't worry about doing everything it asks you to do. I just went off and did what I liked at the time. Can always come back later to complete the task that was set. In many cases, the tasks are completed before the tutorial gets to them.

The game excels at giving you a taste of history. Some players are actually starting to read history books again, to learn about the period and to try to figure out what to do next.....

If you like war, play Russia. If you like to explore and colonize, try Portugal, Spain, or England. If you want a really tough game, play one of the minor countries.

[Par4]

I turned off portuguals GP status, annexed the lil piece of crap

Also got rid of that 250 VP lead they had

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by Leonidas on 03-05-2001 11:31 AM Folks - this is a very complex game. Everything works fine once you understand it. You simply can't build armies and then go marching off to war. You will be defeated every time. There is a downloadable index for the manual at Paradox's forums. There is also a ton of advice there. My best advice is to go to those forums and you will learn everything you need to know about this game. Within a very short period of time everything will make sense. BTW in the next patch a save feature will be available for the tutorial. http://www.europa-universalis.com/

unfortunately (because this sounds like a game id love) this adds one more reason to wait to buy it. In addition to my usual disinclination to spend
$50 US on a game, when i know that waiting 6 months will save 30 of that, and the fact that i need extra RAM to get the game to run (yup, ive only got 48 meg) there is the issue of additional patches coming up.


Lord of the Mark

[Imran Siddiqui]

Don't worry, the price will fall soon enough... you have the REAL strategy gamers buy it up, but then sales will fall dramatically (unfortunetly, I might add).

[Dr Strangelove]

Babbage's has it for $42.