Secondary question

[Jim W]

Okay, now I got plenty of information on how to win. Next question is, how to win specifically by getting the soaceship off to Alpha Centauri first?

Once again, consider that I am playing against the computer, since I just dfon't have the time for MP games.

One thing I know, fill up the empty speaces quick, otherwise they get filled up with barbarians.

Jim W

[The Mad Monk]

The key here is to have a technological and industrial edge. To do this, I usually skimp on purely military techs as much as possible. after you pick up Monarchy, pick up Trade ASAP; this will help you generate loads of gold and science, and help you build wonders much more quickly. Contrary to what I've read from other posters, I don't spread my wonders around. I determine my future science city fairly early, make it my capital, and build ALL of my wonders there.

If you do this, build several cities around your capital, no more than four squares away (if territories overlap, your captital takes precedence). Their sole purpose will be to build caravans, which will be fed into your capital. Your capital should build a temple first, then any wonders available, then scientific and economic buildings. If there is nothing like that available, build caravans and stack them. Shift your tax rate so half your non-lux is gold and half is science. Gold counts more at this point.

After Trade, research your way toward Monotheism, picking up Republic and any economic techs as they present themselves (science techs if they are not available). Build and buy economic buildings early, as the gold they provide will combine effectively with the caravans in wonder-building. If Republic shows up before you've built twenty cities, don't revolt until you do (if Demo shows up, don't look at Rep); the two-food expense for settlers, and shield for all units, will put a crimp in your expansion efforts. Because you're pushing for Mono, don't build Oracle--it will be obsolete very shortly.

Next, head for engineers; by the time you reach them, you should have Leo's up and running. Then railroad. Build Darwin's if your comfortable. After that, a push toward refrigeration is in order. I tend to avoid refining as long as possible, because I don't like losing Leo's and the Colossus; also, by concentrating on the other techs first, you give economic and scientific buildings and wonders more time to do their work.

Remember to check the tech tree for preqs; more than once I've been delayed getting to Mono because I forget Feudalism was a preq. Don't pick fights; give your non-military techs to the AIs freely--they never use them to the extent you will, it will take them longer to research military techs, and they will like you and not molest your ships and caravans for a good, long time. When you are about to get gunpowder, dump ALL your techs on the AIs. Do this again just before you hit Conscription. You'll still have six-turn research, while the AIs will be floundering at twenty. By the time you get automobile, your dominance should be fairly well assured.

This usually works for me at King level--it should dominate at Warlord. Remember to build lots of cities early on--as a general rule, I have at least one settler/engineer active for every city I own.

[Smash]

and build the super science city.With Collosus,Cope's,Sir Ike's and Shake's Theater(optional).Preferably in your capitol and/or a city with good trade resorces.Such as whales,wine,gold,spice,gems,ivory or silk.Try for a location with more than 1 of these in the radius.Rivers are nice also.

Establish trade routes

Follow specific tech path.Paul's OCC path is best with a diversion for Mono,

Bronze Working
Monarchy
Writing
Trade
Construction
Republic(for smaller civs otherwise you may want Mono first)
Astronomy
Medicine
Sanitation
University
Banking
Theory of Gravity
Democracy
Economics
Explosives
Refrigeration
Railroad
Automobile
Computers
Robotics
Spaceflight
Plastics
Superconductor
Fusion power

NO FLIGHT before Robotics as it kills the Collosus

This a goal path.Not a specific path.You will have to research techs in between

[Ming]

Some good advice above...
But also, protect your cities from diplo's and spies late in the game. Once you get the sciences needed to start building your space ship, the AI's will flood you with diplo's and spies in an attempt to catch up in sciences by stealing them. For your land locked cities, have all access points protected. Keep a navy or airforce patroling the cities with sea access to keep them away.

At the end of the game, it is amazing how the AI can cheat and crank out a space ship. How many times have we heard about how somebody lost because the AI built a faster ship and landed before you, even though they launched after you.

If they don't have the sciences to build it, they can't cheat on you

[Adam Smith]

The ability to move units costlessly makes railroad the best defensive tech there is. This is much more important in a regular game than it is in OCC. When playing a regular game against the AI, I would move railroad up to just after sanitation.

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"I fear that I shall die a Prince."
-Edward VII, Prince of Wales

[Bohlen]

Ming has pointed out something that I am constantly working on improving - keeping those spies away and your techs to yourself. I can win the tech race convincingly, but it never fails that one civ steals Space Flight when they are not even close to discovering it. They then share it with EVERYBODY and then the AI tech trading really begins until they are all researching Robotics, Plastics, or another win threatening tech. I have even had techs stolen from me under a treaty in the late game and am not given the option to declare war with the thieves when I am under Democracy. Has this happened to anyone?

As far as the timeliness of launching the spaceship goes, just remember that it is not who launched first, but who gets to AC first. I have myself lost when an AI civ's ship is launched later and faster, but I have won a boatload of games when I launch 2nd. It seems that when the AI is ahead enough in techs or production to the extent that it can build a spaceship before or with you, it tends to build one that is not fully optimized. If an AI ship is launched 1st, I can usually beat it with a faster ship launched 5-10 years later.

[geofelt]

Ming has some good advice; be prepared for the AI to try and even things up. In addition to theft of space techs, expect to be attacked.
Build up your production capability and defenses BEFORE you build Apollo. After you build it, go all out to build and launch quickly. You can build more defenses after launch.
Have 12 caravans ready to build apollo in one turn. Try to get cities built up in advance to producing a net of 80 shields per turn. Structuals cost 80 each, and other parts are multiples of 80. The fastest spaceship has 33 structuals, 8 propulsion components, 8 fuel components, and one each of habitation,life,and solar modules. It will arrive in 5.7 years if you also have fusion power. For this configuration, do not build any more or less structuals.

[Jim W]

Thank you all. Of course, there are many ways of making sure you get the ship done first/fastest.

I was interested to note the appasrent continual threat of Tech-theft by the AI. In all my playing, I believe I have only three or four times had technology stolen by the AI.

Maybe I'm doing something right without knowing it?

On the other hand, I have done a fair amount of tech-trading with the AI, especially in the last few months. Sometimes I've been able to pick up three or four good techs in a run because they want, say, Pottery.

I kind of don't like letting Trade go, or Iron-working, or Bridge-building, or some of the others, because I see them as little advantages for me.

And of course, I like to have at least a moderately good army, because someone, even if it's only Barbarians, invariably takes it into their head to attack me.

For the same reason, I like t6o keep my army just a step ahead of everybody else. Musketeers against Archers/Pikes, Rifles against Musketeers, and so on.

Thanks again. I'll keep on consulting this thread as it goes on.

Jim W

[inca911]

You might want to rethink your position on haveing Trade (the tech) being so beneficial to you when the AI does not have it. I frequently trade away Trade (the tech) for another beneficial advance because it gives me another civ with which I can trade! Those foreign trade routes mean way too much to my Science City to do without them. Similarly, I often trade away Railroad so they will build rails everywhere and make my eventual conquest so much easier. I used to never swap techs with the AI, but now I find I do it frequently when the available techs are nice. Same thing goes with Philosophy. I never have problems getting Mike's well before the AI so I swap Philosophy to everyone and reap some additional benefits. Also, it is often imperative to trade away a tech with every civ you can reach and get the most bang for your buck, that way they will not trade it amongst themselves and advance past you. To me, having good diplomacy tactics was a big key to winning on Deity all the time. Now I have to handicap myself by some method to play an exciting game with the computer. Oh I wish I had time for MP as well! Maybe I'll try a PBEM (Play by E-Mail) game sometime....

[Ming]

So true Geofelt. You just have to love those suicide attacks once you have launched your space ship. At least the dumb AI know's it's in trouble when that happens

If somebody does launch before you do... remember that you can always buy the space ship parts in an attempt to catch up. And remember, feel free to disband a unit in the city you are buying the part in to make it more affordable. The units are meaningless if the AI is going to land before you can

[Bohlen]

Since I've been playing SP on MGE, I have thrown diplomacy out the window. The AI's rarely want to talk about anything other than trading or tribute so forget it. If I have a tech and the AI doesn't, good for me. I have had the AI break an alliance after one turn, so I just gave up trying to even talk to the AI Civs. Anymore, my strategy involves being an isolationist and minding my own business for the AC tech race type of game.

[Sten Sture]

Jim - if you have enough cities to build your spaceship, but production in each isn't up to the 80 shields a turn that geofelt references - here is a neat little trick to be ready to go the turn after building apollo:

You are familiar no doubt with the 50% shield charge if you switch from an improvement to a unit or a wonder to an improvement. Well interestingly, spaceship components are considered to be wonders! So you can start building the Cure for Cancer or Apollo or some such late game wonder in 33 cities that have 20 shield production, and three turns later if you have built Apollo in your wonder city, you can switch your 60 wonder shields to a structural without penalty and it will be completed the following turn.

The way to get to AC is to have good tech, and to have good tech, you must follow the famous strategy: BUILD CARAVANS!!!!!

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Long live the Communists!
-- SilverDragon

[Ming]

And now that you mention it. After you have built more than enough caravans/freights...

Build some more!

[Jim W]

What do you do when, after having built all of these caravans, there is a sudden "poof" and one of your main cities is wiped off the map, after which your Science Advisor comes on the screen gibbering about having packed too many caravans into one city and reached a critical mass of camels?

Oh, you think I'm a smart-a##? So does my wife!

Jim W

[Scouse Gits]

And having built a critical mass of caravans - build some more!
At about this stage you might well be forgiven for asking why the hell am I building all these caravans?
The answer is hidden in the material above - Spaceship parts are considered to be Wonders (sort of) so the trick is -

• Switch production to a suitable Wonder (Manhatten is normally available)
• Move caravans to that city elect to "Help build Wonder" until you have 80x - City production shields in the bag - where x is 1 for Structurals, 2 for Components and 4 for Modules
• Switch production to SS Struct/Comp/Mod (should now say one turn needed)
• Watch spaceship grow like topsy

If you have enough caravans in place you can build a SS part in every single one of your cities every turn - there is no way the AI can match this.
Good civin'

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-26-2000 02:31 PM If you have enough caravans in place you can build a SS part in every single one of your cities every turn - there is no way the AI can match this.

That's funny, I've played games where an AI civ with 10 cities cranked out 10 space ship parts a turn

They maybe able to match it, but they can't do any better... even with that cheating

By the way, once you've built way too much more than enough caravans.........BUILD FREIGHTS

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Long live the Communists!
-- SilverDragon

[Steve Clark]

...and after you have built enough caravans, BUILD SOME MORE!