Thread Tools
Old May 13, 2000, 15:08   #1
Venger
King
 
Venger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Posts: 1,104
Hypothetical balance of power question

If one were to limit luxuries, restricting the ability to use WLTYYYD as a growth tool, would that undermine the balance of power between Fund/Comm and Rep/Dem?

I never play Fund/Comm, but I am aware of most of their strengths/weaknesses. I imagine multiplayer Civ players would best know whether limiting WLTYYYD would make those other governments too powerful.

If it would, what would be the best way to help rebalance? Lower the number of free support units? Increase comm distance from palace?

Venger
Venger is offline  
Old May 20, 2000, 14:52   #2
vee4473
King
 
vee4473's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,513
huh?

I must be a little inexperienced at civ2...

Say who??

vee4473 is offline  
Old May 20, 2000, 16:44   #3
War4ever
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
War4ever's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
Venger i don't believe any govt is to powerfull...... but fundy in MP is great if you are there first ie SOL you can open a can of whup ass on someone.

However, i would lover the fundy free troops to 5
make units bribeable in Democracy and cities
increase corruption in both demo and commie
cut the science rate of fundy to 25%
eliminate WLTKD in rep and demo for the sole purpose of increasing population growth....

that all said though, i like civ the way it is


War4ever is offline  
Old May 20, 2000, 19:39   #4
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 18:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
If you're in an MP diety game with no happiness wonders, don't overlook Comm. If you have a decent infrastructure, it doesn't take much too get wltkd and get the extra trade in your good cities and not worry about unhappiness in your lesser developed cities.

RAH
Don't forget vet spies. The equalizer.
rah is offline  
Old May 20, 2000, 23:40   #5
vik
Prince
 
Local Time: 23:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Posts: 301
Careful you must be when this question you do ask, Hmmmm?

Hey, you'd have to put a serious cap on luxuries in order to prevent what I think you are (hypothetically) asking about preventing. I just grew a size 20 city to size 32 at only a 20% luxury rate.

Of course, before this example gets used as ammunition for a "crutch" arguement, let me say it was OCC. I don't think you can consistently plan on growing all cities this rapidly at that luxury rate.

Maybe the answer is to prohibit this type of growth as a republic (unless you have 100% happy people). Criteria for growth under democracy could be the same, or could shift to, say, 75% happy people.

Maybe they could add an "Ultra-capitalist" government that would be available later in the game where you could grow at 50% happy people.

Edited to add the first sentence. heh heh heh.
[This message has been edited by vik (edited May 20, 2000).]
vik is offline  
Old May 21, 2000, 14:37   #6
Venger
King
 
Venger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:35
Local Date: October 30, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Posts: 1,104
quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by vik on 05-20-2000 11:40 PM</font>
Careful you must be when this question you do ask, Hmmmm?


Mmmm, yes, careful I must be, or destroy I will, all for which I have fought, and suffered...

quote:

Hey, you'd have to put a serious cap on luxuries in order to prevent what I think you are (hypothetically) asking about preventing. I just grew a size 20 city to size 32 at only a 20% luxury rate.


I want to reduce it as a quick fix. 40% should be a good hard cap. You can get WLTYYD with that, but new small cities in a large civ (25+ cities) wont without a ton of improvements.

quote:

Of course, before this example gets used as ammunition for a "crutch" arguement, let me say it was OCC. I don't think you can consistently plan on growing all cities this rapidly at that luxury rate.


20% barely keeps you out of disorder in a large Civ. Hell, new cities in my games start out with that REALLY pissed off black clad dude. And that's at 30%...

quote:

Maybe the answer is to prohibit this type of growth as a republic (unless you have 100% happy people). Criteria for growth under democracy could be the same, or could shift to, say, 75% happy people.


I think that's the best way, to simply attach more conditions to WLTYYYD. No pollution, basic services must be available (market, library), no more than 2 troops outside the city. I think balances WLTYYYD best. But alas, cannot do that in Civ2...

Venger
[This message has been edited by Venger (edited May 21, 2000).]
Venger is offline  
Old May 22, 2000, 03:26   #7
catullus
Warlord
 
catullus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:35
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Norway
Posts: 235
I just don't see how restricting WLTxD can be done. Luxury (or any other rate) cap is an OK soft rule in itself, but you still can celebrate with 20-30%. Or it could turn into a hopeless game. If you lose out on hapy wonders, you are barred from demo. Not good.

Most people find WLTxD too tedious to arrange in the proper way. In OCC it's no big deal, easy to do. But in a large empire, only the very best players are able to do a growth-WLTxD worth the cost. I hadn't played Civ2 for some weeks, and in my game this weekend, my WLTxD attempt turned out to be a huge waste: only 2/3 of the cities celebrating, half of them either lacking harbours/irrigation or aquaducts after two round. WLTxD is not for the weaker players to use.
For most players, the demo/rep strength is in the insane trade. Add no-bribe, no-corruption to demo, and most people are satisfied. No need to cripple commie/fundie to even things out if WLTxD is disallowed.

Whatever. Personally, I feel that in late-stage WLTCD works best in communism. My cities are already maxed out anyway (or I lack harbour/aquaduct/irrigation), and I get a no-senate, no-corruption, almost-no-shield-support, vet-spy gov with FULL TRADE. Nice. Would you disallow that, too, or is it just the growth effect you're after?

C.
catullus is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 19:35.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team