Civ3 Endgame and trade.

markusf · June 2, 2001, 15:12

Trade in civ2 was just crazy, and if you had even the slightest idea of how to use it you could finish the game in about 20 turns after reaching industrailization. Using caravans it was possible to get 2-3 techs every single turn. I took this screen shot from one of my games. I hope the same thing doesn't happen in civ3. 4000 gold a caravan +size 50 trade routes allows you to destroy anyone... 7 caravans is usually enough to buy a complete shapeship....

TechWins · June 2, 2001, 16:06

Just because you have the capabilities of doing something doesn't mean you have to do it. I've never used this strategy or the ICS strategy. I like to have fun when playing the game. I don't use cheap strategies like these. It's just not fun playing this way.

Grim Leaper · June 2, 2001, 17:00

i agree with you TechWins.

ICS is too easy. i enjoyed playing on an isolated island with 5 to 12 cities, it was a challenge, as there would always be 1 or 2 other civs playing ICS with 50 ish cities. it also made the end game more exciting.

markusf · June 2, 2001, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Grim Leaper
i agree with you TechWins.

ICS is too easy. i enjoyed playing on an isolated island with 5 to 12 cities, it was a challenge, as there would always be 1 or 2 other civs playing ICS with 50 ish cities. it also made the end game more exciting.

I had 20 cities that game none icsed. Even with 10 cities playing on diety is no challenge. If you haven't noticed this is the exact opposite of ICS. No city squares overlapping anywhere.. Now if you want to win at multiplayer you have 2 choices. use my strat or play ics.

DrFell · June 2, 2001, 18:54

Actually I've used a strategy similar to this and I find it quite fun. But Civ3's going to take out the caravans, so no more huge caravan bonuses, plus culture will be in there too, so I assume things will be more balanced in Civ3. And do you have to post such a big picture?

To_Serve_Man · June 2, 2001, 18:57

Why are there custom icons? How do you get 4000 gold per caravan? And how does that give you technologies... you do have a lot of scientists... i dont understand it...

Seventh · June 2, 2001, 18:57

I don't think that you guys should say that Mark's strategy is "not fair". He has a valid point. If something's in the game then I think that we as gamers should use it, and if we feel that it cheapens the over-all-gaiming experience then we have a right to point it out in hopes that future versions will not contain the same faults.

Now as for Techwin's suggestion, well I don't agree with it. In SMAC the AI used the ICS strategy like there was no tomorrow [and I have to admit that I even indulged in it a few times], so this shows that game designers know of their products faults and instead of fixing them they simply chose to exploit them . I don't want to insult the Fraxis team, but ICS was a major problem in SMAC and nothing was done about it. In brief, we cannot simply "ignore" game faults; we must complain until they're fixed; this may seem like a real pain, but it's all that we can do.

markusf · June 2, 2001, 19:15

Quote:

Originally posted by To_Serve_Man
Why are there custom icons? How do you get 4000 gold per caravan? And how does that give you technologies... you do have a lot of scientists... i dont understand it...

I got sick of the icons that came with the game so i made my own.
Its easy to get 4,000 gold a caravan, just build up your cities!

Now if you get 4000 gold for a caravan you get an additional 2000 science beakers.. if you send in say 3 caravans a turn, you can get a free tech from caravans. +++ an additional tech or 2 from the normal turn. So you can actually get 2 or 3 techs a turn if you do it right... now if you don't do what i am saying your probably going to get a tech every 6 or 8 turns at this point...

marcuspeddle · June 2, 2001, 19:56

Can someone tell me what ICS is? I've seen it in a number of places but can't figure out what it means.

DrFell · June 2, 2001, 20:35

Infinite Cities Strategy. Basically you build tons of cities fairly closely placed together. Look on the Great Library in the Civ2 strategy section for DaveV's guide to get more info.

Chuckles · June 3, 2001, 05:20

I though it was Infinite City Sleaze...

Sean · June 3, 2001, 07:52

While I'm never one to use "unfair" strategies, there certainly is merit in the original point being made. That is, unrealistic (in the extreme) situations like this should not be allowed to ocure. There should not be "bugs" to exploit. Strategies should be be innovative and even radical, but they should not rely soley on a silly game feature. Thus such features should be removed.

dainbramaged13 · June 3, 2001, 13:19

The correct version of ICS is INFINITE CITY SPRAWL! some people like to call it infinite city sleaze, b/c thats what it is, but thats not the official denotation of it

Wait, so you just have to build up your trade as high as it can be and build caravan after caravan after caravan until you have three extrem++++high trade routes in each city? what do the caravans transport each time you send them someplace? I dont get how the logistics of this are carried out? i mean really, what if you dont HAVE the resource another city demands? or what if its in a low-pop city? it just doesn't make sense that you can constantly have 3 lvl 50 trade routes going WHILE sending out new caravans each turn!
I understand how it works once you reach that plateau, but i dont get how you reach it, and keep it working smoothly!

OH, one other thing. how do you get a tech from sending out 3 caravans? in one turn?

markusf · June 3, 2001, 13:30

Quote:

Originally posted by dainbramaged13
The correct version of ICS is INFINITE CITY SPRAWL! some people like to call it infinite city sleaze, b/c thats what it is, but thats not the official denotation of it

Wait, so you just have to build up your trade as high as it can be and build caravan after caravan after caravan until you have three extrem++++high trade routes in each city? what do the caravans transport each time you send them someplace? I dont get how the logistics of this are carried out? i mean really, what if you dont HAVE the resource another city demands? or what if its in a low-pop city? it just doesn't make sense that you can constantly have 3 lvl 50 trade routes going WHILE sending out new caravans each turn!
I understand how it works once you reach that plateau, but i dont get how you reach it, and keep it working smoothly!

OH, one other thing. how do you get a tech from sending out 3 caravans? in one turn?

You right i don't constantly get size 50 routes, it usually varies between 45 -60 depending on the terrian. Once i have 3 routes i keep building caravans from those cities as long as i can still build trade goods. When i send those caravans to another city i get a couple thousand gold plus half of that in science. So 1 tech from caravans (its the max u can do per turn) 1 tech from this super city. Then another couple of techs for the other cities in my empire that are built up. Also since when does it matter what good your sending to another city? The only thing the demand good effects is the bonus, not the size of the route. If your playing multiplayer you have no choice but to use one of these strats. All you single players would get slaughtered if you tried to play MP.

DrFell · June 3, 2001, 18:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Chuckles
I though it was Infinite City Sleaze...

Depends on weather you use it or not

dainbramaged13 · June 3, 2001, 19:58

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
Also since when does it matter what good your sending to another city? The only thing the demand good effects is the bonus, not the size of the route.

OHHHH!!!! see i didn't even KNOW that!

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
If your playing multiplayer you have no choice but to use one of these strats. All you single players would get slaughtered if you tried to play MP.

probably so!

markusf · June 3, 2001, 20:01

In trying to brush away the rust, I have been combing civ2 sites for basic info and have come across the nitty-gritties of trade routes which might bear reproducing here (as I have not seen this tabling in the threads I have come across here). Source is the Scrolls of Wisdom website which acknowledged the original post by Robert Lancaster to alt.games.civ2
"The amount of trade and the bonus payment you get for establishing a trade route between two cities with a caravan or a freight depends on quite a few factors. The formulas below contain all the details.
Trade = ( trade of home city + trade of destination city + 4 ) / 8
Note that it does not directly depend on city size or distance. The following (cumulative) modifiers apply:
Both cities are yours -50%
Freight instead of caravan +50%
Cities connected by road +50%
Cities connected by rail +50%
Cities on different continents +100%
Airports in both cities +50%
Superhighways in home city +50%
The one time bonus payment is calculated as follows:
Payment = ( ( distance + 10 ) x ( trade of both cities ) ) / 24
It increases if the destination city demands one of these goods (double these figures if the city is not yours):
Silver, Cloth, Wine +50%
Silk, Spice, Gems, Gold +100%
Oil +150%
Uranium +200%
The final bonus payment figure is then doubled during the first 200 game turns or until both Navigation and Invention are discovered. It is reduced by one third after the discovery of Railroad, and by another third after the discovery of Flight. "

King Richard · June 3, 2001, 21:24

In civ2 I usually build one settler to build a new city and one/two settlers to improve terrain in each city. I do this until I win the game. I've newer even thought about ICS, nor have I sent many caravans (too much work!). I welcome the new trade system in civ3, but I hope that it will still be possible to have many cities, as long as you don't use the ISC-"strategy". And another thing: What's the point in having the Sun Tzu's War academy, when your units isn't veterans any more when they're upgraded?

TechWins · June 4, 2001, 01:57

I agree that Firaxis should fix these problems, but I still don't use them because of the fun factor. I only play LAN multiplayer so I don't use them in multiplayer either.

I'm not sure what's the point of building a lot of the early wonders. Most of them stop their effect at an early stage. Some are still good though.