But mommy I don't wanna be Supreme!!!

SandMonkey · June 13, 2000, 22:33

In my current game for some crazy reason i have been labeled as having Suupreme power. Hey that's all fine and dandy, but what is in my army? 20 Phalanx, 16 warriors, and the ever so mighty 9 settlers

. Does this seem Supreme to anyone else?? Granted I have 23 cities, but still. Now the stupid French just sneak attacked me

, and I am stuck with my pants down and no army to fight back with. How the heck did they calculate that I was supreme???

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

AkwaticDudeCity · June 14, 2000, 06:09

I have good reason to believe powerlevels (i.e. Supreme, Mighty, Strong, Moderate, Insufficient, Weak, Pathetic) are, as in real life, determined by the following; population*production per capita. The higher the outcome, the more powerful you are.
I checked to make sure. In Demographics you can see your total population and your total production.

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ugh crud, why won't they fall prey to my Machiavellian schemes?

Ely McGreen · June 14, 2000, 07:33

No, I have found that power level are determined by technological advancement. In a game, I was Supreme until someone discovered Gunpowder, and gave it to others in exchange for techs they wanted. I was bumped down to Strong and didn't do anything.

If your supreme you might as well use it and attack.

SCG · June 14, 2000, 09:31

quote:

...but what is in my army? 20 Phalanx, 16 warriors, and the ever so mighty 9 settlers

. Does this seem Supreme to anyone else?? Granted I have 23 cities, but still.

you managed to build 20 phalanx and yet not even 1 attack unit? that is inviting trouble reguardless of circumstances. Having a military of over 30 units probably went a long way towards determining your power to be supreme, especially if your cities are small.

Tom DeMille · June 14, 2000, 11:12

I would imagine that your Supremacy rating is also determined by the number of military units, not their quality. So those 16 warriors affect your rating as much as 16 Knights.

Adam Smith · June 14, 2000, 11:34

I am pretty sure the power graph, and hence the power rating is run off the old formula from Civ I. That formula depended on four factors: population, money, techs, and number of shields spent on military units. Of the four factors, population was by far the most important. HERE is a year old thread on the topic.

[This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited June 14, 2000).]

Ming · June 14, 2000, 11:47

As Adam Smith points out, the power graph is run by the old formula. However, I'm pretty sure that the only thing that determines Supreme or other levels is the RAW number of military units. It doesn't matter what they are, just how many. So yes, warriors = tanks

AkwaticDudeCity · June 14, 2000, 18:50

That's odd. In my test the outcomes of (population*production per capita) per civ were in the exact same order as their power levels as stated by the foreign advisors.
Could this be a cosmic fluke? (i only tested it once)

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ugh crud, why won't they fall prey to my Machiavellian schemes?

Ely McGreen · June 14, 2000, 21:44

But how is it then that when one civ discovers a technology that it can bump down my rating? Fluke- I think not.

Adam Smith · June 14, 2000, 21:51

Ming:
I just ran a test on your theory. I took my current game, in which my power was Supreme, and disbanded every unit I had, including non-combat units like settlers, dips, and caravans. Next turn my foreign adviser tells me my power is still Supreme. I think this indicates that the number or shield value of units is not the only thing determining power.

I am not sure if just the number of units matters (ie that warriors = tanks), but I am pretty sure that the power ranking does not adjust for quality. In other words, a catapult (60 shields) wandering around some far-away island counts the same as a veteran mechanized infantry (60 shields) fortified in a city.

Akwatic:
If the production per capita is pretty much the same for all civs, then the ranking you hypothesize would be pretty much the same as a ranking based primarily on the population.

edit: forgot about Akwatic
[This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited June 14, 2000).]

SandMonkey · June 14, 2000, 22:04

quote:

Originally posted by SCG on 06-14-2000 09:31 AM
you managed to build 20 phalanx and yet not even 1 attack unit? that is inviting trouble reguardless of circumstances.

Well, I am playing ICS, and I am not yet up to Knights, so why build a bunch of units I am going to disband? And since I have two units in each city (Phalanx + warrior), I don't think those Horsemen are going to get too far

I cheated and I know for a fact that I am not first in science, actually I am fairly far back (disapointing, i know

). I don't know about Akwatic's formula.... And (also by way of cheat) I saw that the English and the Japanese had a large amount of units, and they both were ahead of myself in techs. I would think, just by looking at that, that they would be Supreme, where as I would most likely be one or two levels below that.

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

DaveV · June 15, 2000, 06:33

SandMonkey - I like to have some diplomats in the situation you describe (waiting for better tech before you build attacking units). The AI rarely stacks its units, so they're easy to bribe.

SCG · June 15, 2000, 07:37

Early in the game, i consider anything with an attack of 2 or greater as an attack unit. well, that and diplomats, since they can also remove a threatening enemy unit. In ICS, if I don't get any hut units, I'll build 1-3 attack units just so i have the ability to put forth a preemptive strike on a menacing unit, or finish off something after it has weakened my defenses. Number varies based on need. I might build only 1 chariot - fast and attack 3 - it can hold off most early turn units long enough to rush build more if ever needed. Whereas I may build 2-3 horsemen or archers as they either lack attack or mobility. And I always have a few diplomats around. They make great exploring units and also can rally attacking units to your cause

not to mention they don't require any support

And you can always move a couple militia or a phalanx from an inner cities to an outer city if you worry about defence, so you don't need to build any more units.

AkwaticDudeCity · June 16, 2000, 05:36

Mea culpa
I tested the formula in another game i'm playing and it did not work 100%. Guess it was a one in a bazillion fluke, but a fluke nonetheless.

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ugh crud, why won't they fall prey to my Machiavellian schemes?

Scouse Gits · June 16, 2000, 05:51

Sand Monkey - just a quick point - you don't need to cheat to determine how well or otherwise you are performing in Science just hit cntl-T and ask the Science Advisor. With practise you can actually tell from his face!
I know many players disable this 'feature', but it can be a seriously useful source of information.

Ely McGreen · June 16, 2000, 11:02

No it isn't. I hate when you're working and these dummies pop up and ask- do you want to hear our advice. They are amusement only.

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Elizer R. McGreen

Tom DeMille · June 16, 2000, 13:13

I play without the CD in the drive, and am happy enough not to have advisors/wonder movies too.

Actually, when I think about it, when I first installed the game I copied the extra CD based directories onto my Hard Drive so I could see the movies.

That lasted about 1 week. I then deleted the directories and have not looked back since

.

SCG · June 16, 2000, 13:57

hey! I like to keep my advisors around, kind of like court jesters

I send them away when I tire of their antics

Scouse Gits · June 16, 2000, 14:39

I thought that might put a bit of life into the discussion -- I largely agree with you guys - yes I have them switched off, but it is useful to get an idea of your relative science standing and this is the only way I know (that isn't using the cheat menu)

Note to Mods: this is from my new home connection - hence the peculiar (for me) IP

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Ming · June 16, 2000, 15:53

SG1... HA HA HA HA!
I can't remember the last time I checked an IP address in the civ forums. The bunch that posts here is usually pretty good, and I don't have the need to look at them...

Now, the OTF forum... that's a different story

Oh, and back to the thread...
You can always check your demographics to see about how you are doing in science... but the best method is to build MPE or establish embassies and just look

Now... since the "advisors" have come up. Who is your favorite advisor. I always liked the old drunken military advisor...

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

Tom DeMille · June 16, 2000, 16:55

Ok, dusted off the old CD and had a quick look at the advisors to refresh my memory about their personalities. I like the science guy when we're #1 - "All the world marvels at our superior intellect sire!" witrh that goofy

look in the freeze frame.

The military guy is a close second.

(I'm assuming that the advisors haven't been changed from 242 to MGE

Ming · June 16, 2000, 17:19

Gee... I wouldn't know. I haven't looked at them for a long time, and never since I loaded MP Gold edition... Maybe I should check those bozo's out again

Smash · June 16, 2000, 19:05

My fav is the Elvis guy when you are in anarchy.

Foreign advisor is ok too.Devious and cunning.I like that.Her real name is April Cantor btw.

Jim W · June 16, 2000, 21:04

quote:

Originally posted by Tom DeMille on 06-16-2000 04:55 PM

The military guy is a close second.

(I'm assuming that the advisors haven't been changed from 242 to MGE

My strong prefetrence is the military advisor, as long as he isn't always *****ing at me to build more walls. At that point, I can sympathize with the smarmy Trade advisor who calls out, "Would we could wall up your mouth, plate-head!"

Jim W

SandMonkey · June 16, 2000, 22:32

Come on guys! what about the foriegn advisor! she ranks up there with the spy!

I never realized this before until this game... if you click on the view map section of the cheat menu, and pick an AI, you can see everything (sci advisor, foriegn minister(it's funny when it shows that my player is "Enraged" with them - classic

), their exact number of units on the defense minister). I find this fun to look at when the game gets boring, just to where I stand with the AI. has anyone ever tried this before?

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SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky ecky ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Check out my 1602 A.D. site

Paul · June 17, 2000, 00:44

I agree with Ely on this. The first options I turned off in Civ2 were the advisors and the wonder movies. To me they are just annoying interruptions to my game.