The Deity Level...

[geofelt]

1750 is the date where the AI gets tougher, and gives no more tribute. At deity, unhappiness is your biggest difference. The AI does have production benefits, and other advantages, but won't sweat it. This is necessary to try to give you a good game. It would be most difficult to program the AI to beat an experienced human with fair rules.

[CornMaster]

The AI will trade tech with you after 1750. I'm in 1930 in a game on Diety that I'm playing and I trade tech with every AI civ. (5). I don't know how but everyone likes me in this game. Everyone is helpful. Now I'm the 3rd worst civ in the game but everyone trades with me so I'm not too far behind in tech.
This is the first game on Diety that I have survived past 1600AD. Good Luck

[Sieve Too]

Yes, the AI will continue to like you after 1750 as long as you are relatively weak. The bad news is that you may not be in a good position to win. Conquering in the modern era becomes difficult once nukes enter into the picture. The AI is nuke-happy and cares not one whit about global warming. If you are AC inclined, you'll find that the AI builds spaceship parts at a feverish pace and always constructs a superfast ship. Never trade space ship techs with any AI civ.

Despite there being a number of different AI tribes, remember that ultimately you are really facing a single enemy.

[cavebear]

Kitana, I still find it hard to beat the AI at Deity. Since I don't go for an early military win, the AI has lots of time to use its shortcuts for building.

Yes, the AI cheats, and it cheats shamelessly. It will even build units faster than its shortcut building schedule allows. It plays on the "cheat" menu as far as I can tell. I examined a game once where the I was killing 3 tanks per turn and the AI civ was only building 2 and the column of tanks never got shorter.

In any case, that is the only way that the AI can compete with a good human player, so you have to accept that. It is great practice to play against the AI at Deity, because humans play even better than that (in some ways). When you ever beat the AI (with 3 or 4 civs at Deity through development and A/C, then you can play an even game against most human players.

Beating the AI through a strictly development game means that you have mastered citybuilding, infrastructure establishment, military defense, tech research, Wonder selection, government choices, and resources throughout all the eras of the game.

[Kitana]

I've decide to jump into the Deity Level and I get off to a fairly good start but I usually get my doors blown off after about 1750... Does the AI cheat? I know that it takes half the shields for the AI to build a wonder but does it cheat in other ways? And is it true that the AI won't exchange tech after 1750?


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Shogun of the Japanese
Kitana

[DaveV]

Look at the end of Ming's cheat thread ( http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/H...tml?date=09:40 ) for a comprehensive listing of AI cheats.

[jpk]

At the Deity level the AI cheats. Live with it.

Managing happiness is the main priority. In my opinion it really helps to develop a technological superiority. If you go elephant vs. elephant, then crusader vs. crusader, armor vs. armor, etc. you will have a hard time winning. What you want is armor vs pikemen and stealth fighters vs. musketeers.

The only way I know how to get a big technological lead is to build caravans, lots of them. Build them until you are sick of building them. Then build at least three times as many as that. Repeat this strategy as often as necessary. Oh yes. These caravans should be delivered, preferably to a different continent from their origin. There is a big advantage for delivery to a different continent. The oceans should be filled with ships bearing caravans. If you are on bad terms with some of the AI civilizations build a few good warships and terrorize their navies so they can't sink your caravan ladened ships. If you fill the oceans with caravans eventually some AI civilization will attack you. Expect it about the time of Industrialization. If a spotless reputation is important you can at least be ready for it. If a spotless reputation means nothing, build some iron clads and destroyers and clear the seas of AI and pirate skows.

Note: When the oceans are filled with your ships, sometimes a ship that is headed home will meet a ship that is filled with caravans. Consider midocean transfers of cargo. You can get slightly faster deliveries.

Deity is extremely easy and you should be able to kill everyone before 1750 or eliminate them as a threat.

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The Drunken Pub

"The seeds of evil are the the same seeds of greatness so be evil and be great."

[Matthew]

All you have to do to avoid the 1750 AI wrath thing is launch your space ship by 1510. He he he he.
Sorry, just bragging. A lot of things have to go right to do that.

The caravan thing is a great suggestion. If used well they can be the dominant factor of the game. It isn't that difficult to get 800 gold and just as much science per turn with Caravans.

Also being the dominant civ is not necessary to win. There are advantages to not being dominant. Faster tech rate, more tech options, more amiable AI's. Amiable AI's are a big plus when you have to send caravans over land. Go ahead and give them tech, even if it means falling a bit behind. You can always win the space race by either stealing a bit of tech at the end or using caravans to get those last few techs at the end, plopping down those cities from settlers or engineers you have been using for improvements or keeping in store, waiting 1 turn to get a couple of shields in each, then buying a 5.7 year space ship in 1 turn. (33 structural, 8 fuel, 8 components and one of each type of module).

What do u mean in "plopping down those cities from settlers or engineers...".
and how do u us caravans to get techs?

[Sabrecat]

Look in your science advisor. It should show something that says Reaserching: "------" and under it is a bunch of beakers.

Every time you make a trade route, it should have a pop-up screen that say how much gold you got off that trade route. How much gold you get is how many beakers go into what you're currently reaserching.

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
i played civ for 5 years and i didn't know this!
i always thought that trade is annoying micromanagement!

[This message has been edited by BuilderR (edited July 03, 2000).]

[Sabrecat]

You were really wrong then, trade is one of the best things you can do...

(don't kill me if i'm a little off on this quote) As jpk put it Build lots of caravans, and once your done, build some more.

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SABRECAT

--The man who dies with the most toys is still nonetheless... dead.

[jpk]

There is one point to be careful about when delivering caravans. Before you deliver a caravan check to see how much science you need to fill the science box. If it is nearly full, you may wish to delay delivery until you start working on a new technology. The reason is that you don't get to carry over excess beakers from one technololgy to the next. As you can see there are problems of estimating how much science you will get and how much science you will need to fill the science box. If before you deliver a caravan you note:

1. The size of the city and the amount of roads and other trade producing squares are in the area.

2. The amount of science you have.

Then after the delivery you recheck the amount of science you have you will be able to, with some practice, be able to make a rough estimate of whether the delivery would waste a lot of technological progress. Don't expect to be able to fine tune this exactly but you probably won't get too many huge surprises.

If you are delivering to a hostile civilization, you may wish to deliver despite wasting beakers. The money you get is better than a caravan at the bottom of the sea. Use the money to rush build more caravans.

Hopefully this message is worth $.02.

[Kitana]

You have all been so helpful.

I've managed to get a fairly good civilization to 1750, trading techs with the Egyptians. The only problem is that they got Leo's first. I did manage to grab a few of the happiness wonders though. (And discover Philosiphy first and build Darwin's the same turn I discovered a new tech.)

You are definitely right about caravans, though I usually have to use them to help build wonders.

Unhappiness is really quite a problem. I build cities and the first person is unhappy! Does building roads to connect all of your cities help reduce corruption and unhappiness?

[DaveV]

In my experience, building roads does lower corruption (and waste), but has no effect on happiness. What you're running into is the "riot factor" - once you exceed a certain number of cities, your citizens get less happy. There are three ways to deal with this:

1) Go republic/democratic and use luxuries and happy wonders/improvements to offset the extra unhappiness. Note that beyond some number of cities, two luxuries will convert a very unhappy citizen to a happy (not unhappy, not content, but happy) citizen.

2) Go Communist. No riot factor; garrison troops are doubly effective at quelling unrest.

3) Go Fundamentalist. No happiness worries whatsoever.

[Edward]

DaveV has good advice. If corruption is your problem, a new government is the answer.

Is it true that Communism doesn't suffer from any riot factor due to the number of cities in your empire (Tieneman Square, anyone)?

I thought all governments suffered from the riot factor. It was merely that the number of cities threshold was different depending on your difficulty level and government type.

[DaveV]

Edward - Communism has no riot factor, no waste, and no corruption. One of the best ways to put the "infinite" in Infinite Cities Sleaze.

[Bohlen]

Communism is king in my book. Lately, I've been going to Communism straight from Monarchy and it is beautiful. Of course, I'll probably say that Democracy is king next week. Always trying different ideas with SP...

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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance

[Kitana]

I like Communism and usually go to it after building the SoL. But I've only played about 6 games a deity so far and never got the SoL. Right now I just concentrating on surviving.

BTW, I never like starting on the same continent as the Vikings or the Mongols.

[patriot]

I started playing Civ II last month and always play diety/raging hordes/large world. One of my strategies is to create many diplomats and steal technologies everywhere I can. Any comments on this?

--Patriot

PS. I am a newbie here.

[Edward]

Wow!! Communism's much better than I thought.

I guess anything lost to corruption, graft, and bribery still goes to the government; because the government and the mafia are one-and-the-same.

Thanks, DaveV.

[jpk]

Patriot:

If you are able to steal technologies you are behind the AI civilizations. When you go to war with the AI you will have more or less equivalent units. Knights vs. knights, armor vs. armor, etc.

When you deliver a caravan you not only get a money bonus but you also get a science bonus of an equal numerical value. The science bonus from a single caravan can easily equal the entire science output of you entire civilization for several turns. If you deliver enough caravans you can easily create a substantial technology lead over any of the AI civilizations.

The way to maximize your science bonus is to deliver the caravan to an AI city that is on a continent that is different from the continent of the caravan's home city. Ideally the city should demand the caravan's commodity.

When I frist started playing Civilization I did not apprecieate the value of caravans. Now I would not leave home without one.

[kcbob]

Oh, Patriot, are you in for some looooooooong games.

It took me about nine months to work my way up to Deity level. I would play at a level until I had about two or three good wins and then move up. The higher I went in levels, the longer it took to get to the next one. And Raging Hordes was the same way. I bumped it up slowly as I progressed.

As for the large world, I used to think that a large world was the only way to go. The bigger the world, the more enjoyment. I hve totally, reversed that thought and now play only small worlds. Sending a caravan, armada, army, whatever, from the south forty to north BF Egypt takes way too long. And if you conquer or bribe enemy cities along the way to create staging areas and increase your empire, the micromanagement becomes more than I can bear.

BUT, and that's a big but, it really comes down to what YOU enjoy. Who cares what I play. I'm having fun with the greatest computer game ever created and so are you (I hope).

And if you are a newbie here, you are going to be amazed at how much you'll learn from this site. Without it, I'd still be on Prince level and milktoast barbarians.



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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Scouse Gits]

Patriot - I play most of my games on a large map. I like exploring and working out effecient methods of conquest. The civs found towards the middle of the game have had time to grow far more than those on a small world.

Playing 2.42/Deity/Hordes I would recommend:
Plan your tech path for Monarchy/Democracy, picking up Map Making/Navigation when possible. Then Steam Engine (Ironclads)/Feudalism (Sun Tzu)/ and generally head for Tactics/Amphibious Warfare.

The Wonders I MUST have are HG (for ICS): Magellan's: Leo's: SoL.
Depending upon how the game goes I like: Colossus (in same city as HG): Lighthouse (Super Ironclad): Marco Polo (for early identification of where other Civs are by map trading): Sun Tzu for conquest games.

After SoL go Communist or Fundy. Communism is very useful if you decide to go for AC as an alternative to conquest.

On a large map you must trade and TRADE. This is where being a large naval power helps as control the seas is vital. Caravans must be delivered quickly and safely. The larger distances provide better returns, and on a large map there are
several continents - which again enhances the caravan bonus.

Have fun!

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SG (2)

[patriot]

Thanks for the info on Caravan's contribution to science. This should eliminate my worst deficiencies. Trade was where I understood the least.

[Hueij]

quote: Originally posted by patriot on 07-08-2000 07:17 PM Thanks for the info on Caravan's contribution to science. This should eliminate my worst deficiencies. Trade was where I understood the least.

And to complicate it even more: here is a trick to increase the science bonus
Just before delivering the caravan max out the trade output of its home-city. Place all the workers on trade squares and don't care about a production and/or food deficit. The higher the trade the better. This will increase the science bonus. After you delivered the caravan just place them back before you end the turn.