PC riot factor?

Smash · July 10, 2000, 15:11

Could you look in your rules.txt and tell me what the riot factor is?
Mine is set to 14.Is that right?
Last night I had 5 cities close together when I saw my 1st first red citizen in Monarchy.Something didn't seem right.

Paul · July 10, 2000, 15:32

My rulese.txt also has riot factor 14.

Smash · July 10, 2000, 17:03

hmmm. thats odd.I wonder if there are other facyors involved.Thnx

The Mad Monk · July 10, 2000, 19:18

What were the population levels, and at what difficulty were you playing?

Smash · July 10, 2000, 19:22

Well.I only had 5 cities down so pop level was low.Deity.

DaveV · July 11, 2000, 06:21

Smash - very strange. Did you have any roads/rivers connecting cities? Which city had the red citizen?

Tom DeMille · July 11, 2000, 07:00

Let's see if this makes sense

Deity - 4
Emperor - 6
King - 8
Prince - 10
Warlord - 12
Cheiftain - 14

So my educated guess is that 14 is the number of cities you can have in Cheiftain before you start getting unhappy citizens (ie a riot).

I remember switching the riot factor to 255 a while back and had an easy time at ICS. No extra unhappies no matter how many cities I built.

The government type also contributes to how many cities you can have before riots.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited July 11, 2000).]

DaveV · July 11, 2000, 09:03

Tom - it's a bit more complicated than that. I'll take the liberty of pasting in a table from another thread:

quote:

Here's an attempt at a table:
_____________Deity___Emperor___King____Prince____W arlord____Chieftan
Despotism/_____4________6_______8_______10________12_______1 4
Anarchy
Monarchy______6________9_______12______15________1 8_______21
Republic_______8________12______16______20________ 24_______28
Democracy_____10_______15______20______25________3 0_______35
Communism/____255______255_____255_____255_______255______25 5
Fundamentalism

Each time you exceed a multiple of the magic number, your happiness calculation goes up one difficulty level in some cities. For Deity+1, the first citizen is unhappy; for Deity+2, you will have a very unhappy citizen.

These numbers are for a small map; I think there may be a bonus for larger maps.

Tom DeMille · July 11, 2000, 10:55

OK, so Smash's point is that he should have been able to build 7 cities before getting that first unhappy, not 5.

Smash · July 11, 2000, 14:00

Cities were on a pretty nice river system.No roads yet.

First extra redhead appeared in city #5.Size 1 unhappy.I should have been good for at least 2 more cities.Cities were fairly close together,very low corruption at that point.

I don't beleive in that number system.My first extra redhat would appear consistantly then and that is not what happens to me.On small maps it varies for me from 5(apparently) to 8 or so.

In case there is any doubt Monarchy was established.I had been "holding" at 4 until despo was history.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited July 11, 2000).]

DaveV · July 11, 2000, 14:11

Smash - my experience definitely bears out the numbers in the Deity column. I've never seen a first unhappy before my 5th city in despotism or 7th in monarchy. Sometimes I've been able to squeeze in an extra city, but the riot factor has never kicked in early. Just another one of those puzzling phenomena...

rah · July 11, 2000, 15:03

While in general, that table is a good guide, I have also experienced variations which I notice were due to overall population growth. Where due to pop growth in one city in a turn, another city previously ok (and did not grow) was now a problem. (when no new cities were added that turn)

There was another thread around here that went into more detail, but I'm too lazy to look for it right now.

RAH

DaveV · July 11, 2000, 15:19

Interesting. Smash, what size were your cities? I have probably never had a city bigger than size 2 at this stage of the game, so maybe that is the difference.

finbar · July 11, 2000, 21:00

I think that's right. There seems to be some sort of individual city size (or general population number) factored into the equation. I've been within the "magic number" of cities and had previously content citizens suddenly become unhappy for no apparent reason. Well, other than growth within other cities, none of which, in itself, should cause unhappiness. And no amount of martial law solves the unhappiness.

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finbar
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Ken Hinds · July 12, 2000, 00:52

Don't forget there is also a distance from the capital factor. I think the thread that Rah mentioned is the one where we were discussing the problems involved in getting an advanced tribe in the wrong location at the wrong time. Several of us, myself included, had gotten cities from huts that caused a stable civ to go into mass riots without having the hut city also riot. Most often this had happened if for example: you had 15 well spaced cities total before poping the hut. With some of the cities in the stable civ 80 -> 100 tiles from your capital and on more than one land mass or several islands. Lets say that for whatever reason your unpoped hut was only 20 tiles from the capital and on the same land mass. After poping you most likely got a population 4 city, or possibly only size 3, which would be close enough not to riot, but would cause 3 or 4 cities on the fringes of your empire to riot or just fall out of WLxD status, which can actully end up being worse.

The numbers above are just examples and not actual measures. In that particular discussion none of us were using exact figures and meaurements we were just comparing situations that we had experienced.

Ken

finbar · July 12, 2000, 02:30

Test result. On the Mac version, under Despotism, got to 8 cities - 2 size 2, 6 size 1 - before the 9th city produced an unhappy first citizen. Went into Monarchy, no unhappiness problems.

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finbar
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[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]

DaveV · July 12, 2000, 06:04

Finbar - what size map did you use for your test? And what difficulty level?

finbar · July 12, 2000, 06:44

Large, Deity. I'll run some more tests on different size maps.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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finbar · July 12, 2000, 08:52

Test #2. Small map, Deity. (On a Mac version of the game) None of the cities linked by roads, as they weren't in the first test on the large map. All cities within 6 or 7 squares of each other.

Under Despotism, the 6th city built produced an unhappy citizen. At that point, I had 1 city size 2, and 4 size 1. It was the last city built - obviously a size 1 - that went into revolt. I corrected the unhappiness. Next turn, another size 1 city and the size 2 city went into revolt. The size 2 city had a defender in it, so it wasn't a martial law problem.

Under Monarchy, the 8th city built produced an unhappy citizen, and a size 2 city (with a defender in it) went into revolt.

Which only really tells us, I suppose, that map sizes could have an impact on the equation.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]

finbar · July 12, 2000, 09:08

Test #3. Medium map, Deity. Everything else the same as before.

Under Despotism, the 6th city produced an unhappy citizen.

Under Monarchy, the 8th city built produced a content citizen, but a size 2 city (with a defender in it) went into revolt.

Make of all of this what you will.

While I'm at it, I might as well do another large map test to see what happens under Monarchy.

Um .... maybe in the morning.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]

DaveV · July 12, 2000, 09:30

finbar - could you check how many cities you can build in Monarchy before having happy problems? I know, it's a lot easier to ask someone else to do the work than to do it.

finbar · July 12, 2000, 19:02

Which size map?

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finbar
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finbar · July 12, 2000, 19:19

The only Monarchy test I hadn't done was on the large map. Just did it. My 11th city produced a content citizen, but another size 1 city went into revolt, as did another size 2 city with a defender in it. So 10 was the limit.

My findings, based on an entirely unscientific series of tests:

Small Map - 7 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness

Medium Map - the same

Large Map - 10 cities in Monarchy before unhappiness

So large maps certainly seem to give you leeway in city numbers.

This, remember, is the Mac version of the game. I have the PC version, which I bought before the Mac version was ported, and I played on the Mac via SoftWindows. I'll open up the PC version and give it a try.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]

finbar · July 12, 2000, 20:47

I think I should get a life.

But anyway ...

Did some tests with the PC version, playing it on my Mac via SoftWindows. And I'd forgotten how different the interfaces are. The OK and Cancel buttons are reversed on the PC version, which meant I was automatically hitting the wrong button from time to time.

And you also get a little bell/chime sound when you build a city in the PC version. How endearing.

The script/font used in the PC version is more elegant, too.

Anyway ...

1. Small Map - under Monarchy, the 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.

2. Medium Map - this was interesting. My first map gave me a small island. Bastards.

But I had a go anyway. Under Despotism, my 5th city produced an unhappy chappie. I didn't have the space to build any more cities. Abandoned the attempt.

Second attempt. Under Monarchy, my 7th city produced an unhappy chappie.

3. Large Map - Under Monarchy, my 10th city produced an unhappy chappie.

So map size certainly plays a part in the equation. And the PC version - on the basis of these immensely unscientific tests, anyway - allowed one less city before unhappiness under Monarchy than the Mac version. You'd have to do a lot more tests to make that a given, methinks.

That summary:

MAC
Small Map - 7 (before unhappiness)
Medium Map - 7
Large Map - 10

PC
Small - 6
Medium - 6
Large - 9

But, given my results, Smash's unhappiness factor - after 4 cities - does seem a bit odd.

Now I'll go and get a life.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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[This message has been edited by finbar (edited July 12, 2000).]

Taian · July 13, 2000, 08:47

My experience agrees with that...the only other thing that may affect it is the timeline. I think those numbers change as the game progresses.

finbar · July 13, 2000, 22:04

Unless someone's found an incredibly sneaky alternative, the host's rules should apply to everyone.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
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Carolus Rex · July 14, 2000, 00:29

A question related to Smash's original post.

What happens if a player changes the game parametres in MP? Is it possible for a player to cheat by increasing the riot factor, for exampe?

What about the host, can he do it? How can you detect if someone has done such a thing, do the host's settings apply to all players? Or do "individual" settings apply? How do you detect it in that case?

Carolus