Huge Game.

markusf · July 1, 2001, 19:57

nappy is back from holidays and i wanted to start up the big game we wanted to play a while back.

I was thinking 6 PST fridays.

Me
bezerker
nappy
diety
arri
Smartfart

And one more reliable person..( none on the list are quiters and unreliable)

Makeo · July 1, 2001, 20:01

Sigh now my post doesn't make any sense and i have to change it.

markusf · July 1, 2001, 20:02

ok makeo is 7th.

confirms from everyone but diety, arrii and SF. But i am sure they are availible then to...

deity · July 2, 2001, 07:22

I'm OK for this game at 6PST Saturday , most likely.

I hope this combo of players happens. Will be great!

Another thing to consider is cavebears tourney possibly starting up soon and we don't want too many games tying us up.

arii · July 2, 2001, 11:26

Count me in, I am available in most friday nights

markusf · July 2, 2001, 11:32

alright, if diety can't play then zylka can join. Just waiting back from SF but i am sure he can play to.

Everyone ready for this friday night 6 PST?

SmartFart · July 2, 2001, 17:30

I am looking forward to it. I will be available to play on proposed time.

This means Eurodip is definitelly case closed?

The Capo · July 2, 2001, 18:30

God damn it!

Alright, so everyone's just gonna quit on the European game because this clown says "hey let's have a huge game!"?

F*ckin harsh.

God damn it!

markusf · July 2, 2001, 18:34

Ok Since everyone has accepted, lets start at 6PST this friday.

I hacked the eurodip map and made it a big mess

arrii would you like to make a map or clean up the one i made?

I was thinking diety, 1x 1x
no city bribing
no allainces, no caravans to foriegn civs.
no happy wonders.
no huts....

Zylka · July 2, 2001, 20:16

I'm first in line for Eurodip, but if it doesn't happen by the time this starts (6pm pst), I'm in.

Most of Markus' suggestions make sense.
-There should be no huts
-No city bribing
-No formal alliances
-No caravans to other civs
-Deity 1x1x

But...
-In a 7 player game, all wonders should be acceptable
-Emperor should be considered to lesson the importance of happiness wonders
-Simul would be great (with turn based war) until about 1ad, Markus would agree

-No host tech advantages

And I insist...
-Resources are set to random
-Starting positions are set to random
(No insider knowledge going into this)

The mangled map of Europe is really good. This is pretty much starting to look like a diplo game anyway, would y'all like to treat it that way? Mark your calendars every week for 6pm pst, this is gonna be a gong show.

Cheers.

Zylka · July 2, 2001, 20:47

I've just received word that the civs and resources will NOT be random. Therefore... I claim France as my empire.

Zylka · July 2, 2001, 22:04

...and and AND, I have another proposal, since the map keeps undergoing "changes" based on who gets what spot [I won't name any names

]

The map should go through one last draft, and posted as is, no changes from then on. Everyone will then download the final draft map and pick their civs here in the forums. The person who created the map gets last pick.

I'd be happy to make the final editions to the map.

markusf · July 2, 2001, 22:17

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
arrii would you like to make a map or clean up the one i made?

read zylka, i said i wasn't finished the map. It was a proposal.

I like all the civs except the one in italy(italy is a major naval power), but thats just my playing style.

I am waiting to hear back from everyone to see what changes they have in mind or if we just want to go with a random map (i find this map a little on the big side)

Zylka · July 2, 2001, 23:46

Ok then. You finish changes to the map, you get last pick

markusf · July 3, 2001, 00:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka
Ok then. You finish changes to the map, you get last pick

kiss my ass

your a sub/late comer so you get last pick

You get to play now since diety can't make this friday.

Arrii suggested france and russia only get 3 specials so i reduced them to 3. (although they can mine the squares to get them back.)

Since i increased the tech paradigm i had to give the mongols some production to compensate for what is going to be a rather late entry to monarchy/ trade. (2 peat so they can have one wonder city) russia france and babs river system was increased. spain got less plains, and italy got a better river. And greeks got more green land. I think its good enough to play on. Everyone post your top 3 picks for civs.

Mine are

1. Mongols
2. russia
3. babs

arii · July 3, 2001, 08:13

France (I'm french)
greeks
russian

I can play this friday but next week end will be out of town. I'm ok for the fridays after that one. Is there a way to play the next week session during a week night?

SmartFart · July 3, 2001, 15:58

I am with Zylka on this one...Markus,why don't you randomize resources and starting positions?

- If we MUST have specific starting locations,then I don't care which one is mine. Last pick is OK.
- I am STRONGLY against sim turns. Sim turns are good until 1st contact. Then it's even slower than normal games and wars are either impossible or screwed. With 7 players we're heading to major confusion if we play sim turns.

- my votes to deity,x1x1,no alliances or tech trade
- i am pretty much indifferent about anything else

SF

SmartFart · July 3, 2001, 16:04

Err...what do you mean by increasing tech paradigm Markus?
Does that mean less beakers to fill the line? If so,why?

DrFell · July 3, 2001, 18:56

It increases the number of beakers required to research tech.

Nap Bonaparte · July 3, 2001, 19:32

Why dont we ask Cavebear to make one of his famous balanced maps where we all dont know the geography and each players position before we start. Increasing the tech paradigm will lengthen the game substantially and decrease the odds of ever finishing it. Finally, no .zip files please.

Zylka · July 3, 2001, 20:15

Arrii, I've already claimed France if you'll scroll up. Markus, you're such a dork. When you showed me the first map which was so obviously meant for you to use France (ICQ - "I like France most") I quickly picked it, and you had no choice but to flip flop, at which point you said mongolia was the best civ. At that point you also claimed that mongolia was the only civ that still needed work done to it, and cleaned up the map by ridding yourself of resourcless jungles, adding an extra special or too, and severing yourself off from neighboring Scandanavia (the Greeks). Don't try repeating that Mongolia is primarily a "growth" civ and not geared for production either seeing as how I can count 3 peats and an Iron within your probable first 5 cities.

Personally, I'm sick of players who win the game before it even starts. Not giving an inch of desired settings to others in hopes of gearing the game completely towards your plans and style is pathetic. Reworking the map according to personal outcome is worse. I want everyone to have a fair start, but would rather choose a good start then a bad if forced, that's my confession. But why can't we give all the former? I will play with any facet of setting judged democratically by the players involved, simple enough. Moreso, I will take last pick of civ if I can make the final draft of the map, and encourage it to be that way for anyone else who might make it. This is an even better bet than having a third party create it, as the INVOLVED creator knows he/she will most definately end up with one of the worst civs, and will make the civs as equal as possible as a result, with next to no disparity. No insider cooperation, no feigned caring of others, no complaints - think about it.

Am I making too much noise in trying to assure this game starts off fairly and lasts a long time? Well then why not make me the scapegoat again, or try to kick me out

Cheers.

markusf · July 3, 2001, 21:01

zylka, instead of babbling would you tell me how the map is unfair? to me the starts look even.

now i don't think its going to be possible for anyone to make a map before friday so, we have 2 choices. we use this map or we play on a random map that is between med and large. or arii can make one

markusf · July 3, 2001, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Nap Bonaparte
Why dont we ask Cavebear to make one of his famous balanced maps where we all dont know the geography and each players position before we start. Increasing the tech paradigm will lengthen the game substantially and decrease the odds of ever finishing it. Finally, no .zip files please.

i have to zip them because it won't let me upload .mp files.

I am going to insist on sim turns and no war till 1ad. if you don't like it to bad, with 7 players someone is always going to be unhappy. I figure if we get to 300 ad or so in the first session everyone will be far more willing to continue and we can go turn based

Zylka · July 3, 2001, 21:24

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf

now i don't think its going to be possible for anyone to make a map before friday... we use this map... or arii can make one

You're just a walking contradiction aren't you. If arrii can make a map before Friday so can I. For some reason the whole creator of the map gets last choice idea is constantly ignored, I wonder why

Unfortuanately you didn't read my post/respond to it correctly, as I thought you would have. Too much credit given I guess, after all I only know of one other person who knows how to play "the game" properly (no, I don't mean civ). Make a map with all players in mind, and prove you aren't worried what civ you get by taking last pick.

Cheers.

Zylka · July 3, 2001, 21:30

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
zylka, instead of babbling would you tell me how the map is unfair? to me the starts look even.

Read the first paragraph in the post you were responding to. Whatever civ you think you are going to end up with is the civ that has the "last minute" adjustments on the map

markusf · July 3, 2001, 22:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka

You're just a walking contradiction aren't you. If arrii can make a map before Friday so can I. For some reason the whole creator of the map gets last choice idea is constantly ignored, I wonder why

Unfortuanately you didn't read my post/respond to it correctly, as I thought you would have. Too much credit given I guess, after all I only know of one other person who knows how to play "the game" properly (no, I don't mean civ). Make a map with all players in mind, and prove you aren't worried what civ you get by taking last pick.

Cheers.

I am getting bored of explaining this to you on icq and here. I posted the original map, and said that france was the best the way it was now. But i wanted feed back. After getting arrii and and others to look at it i got thier suggestions and i made the modifications. ie france and russia got toned down, spain italy mongols got better. I cut off greeks from mongolia because other wise france would have a free rien in central europe. As far as i am concerned that last map is the final map.

Now starting positions are going to be picked the same way we did it for the other dip games.

Everyone picks thier 3 favorite civs. If your the only 1 who picked spain first you will get it. if there is a tie, cavebear will pick the winner.

As for random resources it can't happen, as i explained to zylka, russia and france have a lot of trees and hills, which means they could end up with 90% of the specials on the map. And countries like mongolia babs and greeks could well end up with none.

Now cavebear is going to assign starting civs/players. (The map is final since i heard no more complaints)

Zylka · July 3, 2001, 22:22

Markus you are a complete idiot. I have tried over and over to simplify and explain my argument to you on ICQ (to no avail), so I'll do so on here and perhaps the others can hold your hand and read it to you. If the map you made is final, and you think everything on it is fair, then you choose your civ last. You do not get first pick to settle in one of your markus friendly nests. Can you agree to that much?

You said you don't care what civ you get other than Italy, so prove it. Will you take last pick? Yes or No, prove me wrong.

SmartFart · July 4, 2001, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf

I am going to insist on sim turns and no war till 1ad. if you don't like it to bad, with 7 players someone is always going to be unhappy. I figure if we get to 300 ad or so in the first session everyone will be far more willing to continue and we can go turn based

So,sim wars between 1ad and 300ad are very likely a possibility?
Every sim turns based game I've played with more than 3 players turned out to completely disaster.
I've played with everyone on your list and all of them are reasonable fast players.
I don't enjoy sim turns. As a matter of fact I hate them as much as I hate double movement. Since enjoying the game is my prerequisite to even start one,I'll give this one a miss.

Have fun.

SF

markusf · July 4, 2001, 11:04

Ok. Final rules, unless there are strong objections.

Turned based.
diety 1x 1x
no wonders
caravans to other civs allowed (will finish the game faster)
tech trading allowed ? (Again to make the game go faster)
No formal allainces.
no embasy allowed to any civ. (its maddening to play blind)
no city bribing.

arii · July 4, 2001, 11:21

Please don't change the tech paradigm, it already takes forever at deity level. What is the final word on attacking other civs?