OCC Fortnight #6: Discussion, Logs, Gripes & Moans

[vik]

Thanks, as always, again to Paul for putting this scenario up.

Now players, if you would be so kind as to note a few things for me as you play? I would be interested in knowing what civ2 version you have, so I can maybe compare how the AI behaved and make a better scenario next time.

Secondly, and this is what I'm most interested in, is your reputation at the end of the game. I'd like to know what your reputation is, and if this is higher, about the same, or lower than what your reputation usually is.

Finally, I would like to know which city site you selected. If you want to know what I believe is the most challenging city site, read on. If not, please avert your eyes to the little "X" in the upper right corner and click.

Okay, I test-played this from "all" the possible starting locations once. I found that the most challenging starting location, for whatever reason, seemed to be the . . .

.

.

.

Now's the time to leave . . .

.

.

.

I found the northern-most location most challenging. Again, good luck.

.

.

.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.

[Dusty]

(edited for format)

Hi, I've been watching the Fortnight threads,
for a week or so, and playing the comparison games to sharpen my OCC skills.

So I chose this game as a chance to jump in and introduce myself. Unfortunately I didn't do so well...


Here's my log:

Game Version: MGE
Starting Position: South position.

Summary:

Founded City: 3900 BC
Switch To Monarchy: 1800 BC
Colussus: 1500 BC
Switch To Republic: 525 BC
Die: 120 AD


-3900 Founded Persepolis, fortified 1 warrior in city, using 1 settler and 1 warrior for exploration.

-3800 Horseback Riding (hut)

-3700 Warrior.

-3600 Alliance: allied, Ceremonial Burial, Alphabet, Map Making, they refused sharing maps/gift. (Worshipful)

-3500 Warrior. Begin Colussus.

-3350 Sky People: Code of Laws. Shared Maps, No alliance. They started out enthusiastic, became worshipful.

-3250 Sky People and Alliance declare war.

-2950 Alliance at war with Droids. Warrior destroyed by barbarians. Writing from Alliance, Icy.

-2800 Lost a settler to barbarians.

-2400 Alliance. They were icy, refused gifts, or to trade knowledge, demanded 50 gold. Then they gave me Trade as a gift.

-2000 Monarchy. Begin Revolution.

-1800 Switch to Monarchy.

-1550 Colussus.

-1500 Alliance cancel alliance, as I won't declare war on sky people.

-1450 Alliance with sky people, for declaring war on Alliance. Mysticsm as gift.

-1100 Cease fire with alliance, as they had a catapult right by my settler...

-1050 Construction. Library.

-825 Sky People are icy, as I refuse to declare war on Alliance.

-800 Market Place.

-650 Alliance sneak attack and kill a settler.

-550 Republic. Begin Revolution. Mathematics, polytheism from sky people

-525 Colesseum. Switch to republic, begin WLTCD size 4. Disband two warriors.

-450 Aquaduct.

-375 Stupid Mistake: I need a temple. Disband warrior to try to build temple. Doesn't work.

-350 End WLTCD cause I'm an idiot and forgot to build a temple.

-325 Temple Begin WLTCD again (size 9)

-300 Sky People cancel alliance. Warrior.

-250 Cease fire with Alliance.

-225 End WLTCD, size 12.

-200 Philosophy Astronomy, begin Copernicus.
Caravan. Expel Rebel diplomat.

-175 Silver caravan arrives in satsuma, 76 gold. +7 trade route.

-75 Alliance has catapult outside city, I pay 100 gold, but they still won't go to peace as I won't declare war on sky people (who have elephants outside my city).

40 Medicine.

80 War with Sky people, I insisted they withdraw troops while they were uncooperative (the troops were stealing resource squares from my city.)

100 Sky people are too dumb to come take my city with nearby elephants.

120 Alliance aren't, they sneak attack, and wipe me out. Bummer.

My reputation throughout was Excellent, which is what usually happens when I break alliances/declare war in order to get in the graces of another civ.

Overall the AI behaved like they normally do in MGE. I usually find that I can't win OCC games in MGE unless I'm in a fairly isolated spot. And definetly not if I'm between two warring civs.

I'll try it again on 2.4.2 tomorrow.

----
Dusty
[This message has been edited by Dusty (edited March 30, 2000).]

[vik]

Dusty, Welcome! I'm glad you've been keeping up with the OCC threads. Seriously, this is a very informal, open competition, used for learning, improving, and bragging rights for some. OCC#5 was my first 'official' attempt at playing one of the Fortnights. It's pretty fun, and I've learned alot. Nowadays, I'm inclined to play with one city no matter what the scenario.

Note to everyone else: Sadly, I will be departing for Korea in one week for a 'business' trip. I will be gone approximately three weeks, and I do not know what kind of internet access I will have over there. I likely will not be able to get a scenario to Paul. I will work on one in my free time because I think it is fun. It should be ready to go for, say, the OCC Fortnight #9. Just a guess, but I want to let you know so someone can cover and provide a scenario.

Of course, if no one wants to make a scenario, you can just random start a map and save it like the "good-ole" days.

just have fun with it.


Edited to say: Gee, reading through your log again, I didn't realize the ramifications of calling a tribe "the Alliance." Sorry about that, will be more careful next time.
[This message has been edited by vik (edited March 30, 2000).]

[vik]

Okay, I've emailed the zip file to Paul. You will need to play as "The Empire."

I have altered some of the attitudes, and I hope it goes the way I planned. I have ver 2.4.2 so I hope this doesn't really screw up the MPG folks.

Good luck and have fun.

[Paul]

Download at http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/OCC6FNC.ZIP

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited June 04, 2000).]

[redbaron]

vik, Good game. I managed to keep my Alliances going throughout the game which is a first for me.
Not much trouble from the AI, even when it kept putting cities close by. Thanks to bickering between the other civs, i managed to get and keep access to all the city squares, so production and food levels were never a problem.

I can’t compare my rating as I don’t normally look at it.

Version 2.42

AC 1817

Monarchy 2050 BC
Republic 525 BC
Democracy 460 AD

Colossus 2200 BC
Copernicus 200 BC
Shakespeare 260 AD
Newton 720 AD
Darwin 1160 AD
Apollo 1720 AD

1st Trade 750 BC
2nd 625 BC
3rd 525 BC

Trade 1300 BC
Construction 1750 BC
Sanitation 40 AD
Refrigeration 960 AD
Automobile 1340 AD
Computers 1560 AD
Space Flight 1710 AD

Pop 12 60 AD
Pop 24 1320 AD

Rating Cruel 35% Score 274

3900 BC Penge founded Whale, Oasis, Wine, Gold

Use Settler to boost Pop
3750 BC Warriors
3600 BC Exchange Bronze Working for Alphabet with Alliance
Exchange Pottery for Ceremonial Burial with Alliance
Exchange Masonry for Map Making with Alliance
Alliance
3550BC Share maps with Alliance
3150 BC Code of Laws
3000 BC 25 Gold from Alliance
2950 BC Use Settler to boost Pop
2900 BC Exchange Currency for Writing with Alliance
50 Gold from Alliance
2750 BC Share maps with Alliance
2200 BC Monarchy. Revolution
Colossus
2100 BC Exchange Monarchy for Mathematics with Alliance
150 Gold from Alliance
2050 BC Monarchy established
Diplomat
1950 BC Granary
1750 BC Exchange Code of Laws for Construction with Alliance
1600 BC Library
1500 BC 50 Gold from Alliance
Give Construction, Writing, Mathematics to Smugglers
Alliance with Smugglers
Horseback Riding from Smugglers
Share maps with Alliance
Temple
1300 BC 50 Gold from Alliance
Share maps with Smugglers
Trade
1150 BC Exchange Trade for Mysticism with Alliance
Exchange Trade for Seafaring with Smugglers
1100 BC Marketplace
775 BC Literacy
750 BC Silk Caravan to Hastings 32 Gold
150 Gold from Alliance
Give Literacy, Mysticism to Smugglers
725 BC Bribe Alliance Trireme 92 Gold
650 BC Give Construction to Sky People
Treaty with Sky People
625 BC Gold Caravan to Kyoto 84 Gold
600 BC Philosophy
Republic. Revolution
550 BC Give Republic to Alliance
Give Horseback Riding to Sky People
Give Republic to Smugglers
75 Gold from Smugglers
Give Construction, Republic, Philosophy, Seafaring, Mysticism, Monarchy to Sand People
Treaty with Sand People
525 BC Republic established
Coal Caravan to Karakorum 70 Gold
Share maps with Alliance, Smugglers
WLTCD Pop 6
500 BC Colosseum
475 BC 75 Gold from Alliance
450 BC WLTCD ends Pop 8
425 BC 150 Gold from Smugglers
Aqueduct
WLTCD Pop 8
Astronomy
375 BC 50 Gold from Alliance
350 BC Sand People declare War
325 BC Give Philosophy to Alliance
50 Gold from Alliance
Give Philosophy to Smugglers
Pop 12
300 BC WLTCD ends Pop 12
225 BC Medicine
200 BC Copernicus
175 BC 75 Gold from Smugglers
125 BC Wheel
100 BC Give Republic to Sky People
25 BC Engineering
1 AD Exchange Wheel for Iron Working with Alliance
100 gold from Alliance
Give Wheel to Smugglers
150 Gold from Smugglers
40 AD Spice Caravan to Carmathen 288 Gold
Share maps with Smugglers, Alliance
Sanitation
60 AD WLTCD Pop 12
Sewer
100 AD WLTCD ends Pop 13
140 AD University (advance)
160 AD Coal Caravan to Carmarthen 300 Gold
200 AD Theory of Gravity
220 AD Exchange Engineering for Banking with Smugglers
75 Gold from Smugglers
Exchange Sanitation for Warrior Code with Alliance
100 Gold from Alliance
260 AD Shakespeare
Sell Colosseum
WLTCD Pop 13
280 AD Sell Temple
320 AD University
Invention
340 AD Sell Granary
360 AD 100 Gold to Sky-People
Treaty with Sky People
Exchange Invention for Bridge Building with Smugglers
Exchange Astronomy for Feudalism with Smugglers
100 Gold from Smugglers
100 Gold from Alliance
Bank
380 AD WLTCD ends Pop 18
400 AD Democracy. Revolution
420 AD 50 Gold from Smugglers
460 AD Democracy established
480 AD 50 Gold to Droids
Give Writing to Droids
Give Seafaring to Droids
500 AD Chemistry
520 AD WLTPD Pop 18
580 AD WLTPD ends Pop 20
Gunpowder
640 AD Give Democracy to Smugglers
25 Gold from Smugglers
Give Invention to Alliance
50 Gold from alliance
640 AD Explosives
700 AD Economics
720 AD 150 Gold from Alliance
Newton
740 AD Exchange Gunpowder for Navigation with Smugglers
50 Gold from Smugglers
Metallurgy
760 AD Engineers
800 AD Physics
820 AD Stock Exchange
860 AD Magnetism
920 AD Electricity
960 AD Refrigeration
1000 AD Steam Engine
1020 AD Supermarket
1040 AD Exchange Navigation for Chivalry with Alliance
100 gold from Alliance
WLTCD Pop 19
1060 AD Engineers
Railroad
1140 AD Industrialisation
1160 AD Darwin
Corporation
Refining
1220 AD Treaty with Jedi
Give Railroad, Physics to Smugglers
50 Gold from Smugglers
1240 AD Steel
1300 AD Combustion
1320 AD Oil Caravan to Tlatelolco 242 Gold
WLTCD ends Pop 24
1340 AD Automobile
1380 AD 50 Gold from Alliance
Disband Warrior
Superhighways
Mass Production
1420 AD Mass Transit
Electronics
1460 AD Conscription
1480 AD Exchange Railroad for Leadership with Alliance
1500 AD Tactics
1520 AD Factory
Machine Tools
1540 AD Exchange Steam Engine for Polytheism with Smugglers
Give Conscription to Smugglers
Hydro Plant
Miniaturisation
1550 AD Sell Sewer
1560 AD Barracks
Computers
1570 AD Sell Aqueduct
Alpine Troops
1580 AD Research Lab
Mobile Warfare
1600 AD 100 Gold from Alliance
Robotics
1610 AD Disband Warrior
Manufacturing Plant
1620 AD Flight
1640 AD Radio
1670 AD Advanced Flight
1690 AD Rocketry
Armour
1710 AD Space Flight
1720 AD Apollo
1740 AD Plastics
1754 AD Atomic Theory
1760 AD Nuclear Fission
1764 AD Nuclear Power
1768 AD Laser
1772 AD Superconductor
1774 AD 15 Structurals
1784 AD Sneak Attack by Sky People
1786 AD Give Advanced Flight to Smugglers
1788 AD 6 Components
1800 AD Sell Research Lab
1802 AD Launch
1805 AD Recycling
1808 AD Exchange Railroad for Monotheism with Sand People
Treaty with Sand People
1809 AD Give Railroad to Sky People
Treaty with Sky People
Exchange Explosives for Communism with Alliance
1810 AD Recyling Centre
1812 AD Droids steal Space flight
1813 AD Sneak attack by Droids
1814 AD Sneak attack by Sand People
Boost luxuries rate to 100 %
1815 AD WLTPD Pop 24 (No surplus food)
1817 AD AC
Darth Vader the Cruel 35 % Score 274

i know i know im dumb... what does MGE and MPG stand for, i have a guess at MPG as multi player game...

[Neon Deon]

Qualiciide,
MGE and MPG are one in the same. IT refers to CIV II's Multi Player Gold Edition. Much
harder in single play than 2.42.

[Tom DeMille]

My early game was slow due to lack of contact with the AIs. I ended up building Marco Polo to get past the problem. There were no landings on my continent until ~300BC, after which there were a lot. I almost got killed by the Smugglers before forming an alliance with them.

I had food trouble towards the end. Both engineers were lost , but my settler and AI engineers cleaned up some of the pollution being produced.

My reputation started as excellent, went down to honourable when I declared war on the sand people (600AD), and returned to excellent around 1100AD when all my allies (everyone but the sand people) were at peace with one another.

I had no trouble keeping all the city squares to myself. 3 AI cities were founded on my landmass, but I was allied with all of them.

v242 diety

Arrival in 1811

1450BC - switched to Monarchy
425BC - switched to Republic
380AD - switched to Democracy

2100BC - Colossus
40AD - Copernicus' Observatory
360AD - Shakespeare's Theatre
880AD - Isaac Newton's College
1240AD - Darwin's Voyage
1740AD - Apollo Program

975BC - Trade
725BC - Construction
220AD - Sanitation
1020AD - Refigeration
1340AD - Automobile
1590AD - Computers
1730AD - Space Flight

225BC - size 12
580AD - size 21
1510AD - size 29

220AD - 1st Trade route
220AD - 2nd Trade route
300AD - 3rd Trade route


3900BC - found Palpatine (wine, gold, oasis, whale)
3850BC - 1 settler joins city
(built two warriors before switching to colossus)
3700BC - Archers (hut) - supported
3100BC - Alphabet, another settler joins city (now pop 4)
2600BC - Code of Laws
2100BC - Ceremonial Burial, built Colossus
1600BC - built Marketplace
1550BC - Monarchy, revolution
1450BC - switched to Monarchy
975BC - Trade
925BC - built Marco Polo's Embassy
Sky-People - acquire Map Making, trade maps, alliance
Alliance - acquire Writing, Literacy, alliance, 100 gold
Sand People - trade maps, peace
Jedi's - trade maps, alliance (war with Sand People), 50 gold
Droids - The Wheel, peace
Smugglers - war
(reputation is Excellent)
875BC - built Library
825BC - built Temple
725BC - Construction
Alliance - aquire Horseback Riding, 25 gold
Droids - acquire Warrior code, alliance (give them 50 gold), 125 gold
Jedi - 50 gold
Sand People - cease fire
575BC - built Colloseum, 50 gold (Jedi)
500BC - built Aqueduct
475BC - The Republic, revolution
Droids - Seafaring, 75 gold
Rebels - 50 gold
Jedi's - 100 gold
Sand People - war
425BC - built Diplomat, switched to Republic
400BC - begin WLTCD (pop is 5)
300BC - Mathematics (Droids), Mysticism (Sky-People)
275BC - bribed smuggler Trireme for 240 gold
250BC - 50 gold (Alliance), 100 gold (Droids), bribed Chariot for 160 gold
225BC - size 12
125BC - Astronomy
125BC - Engineering (Sky People), Banking & 50 gold (Droids), 50 gold (Jedi)
1AD - alliance with Smugglers, 100 gold
peace with Sand People
40AD - build Copernicus' Observatory
80AD - Philosophy, Medicine, build gold caravan
120AD - build coal caravan
160AD - build spice caravan
180AD - 50 gold (Jedi), Invention & 150 gold (Droids), 25 gold (Alliance)
220AD - Sanitation
1st Trade route - 112 gold Gold to Trondheim (not demanded)
2nd Trade route - 112 gold Coal to Trondheim (not demanded)
300AD - Democracy, 3rd Trade route - 122 gold spice to Cardiff (not demanded), revolution
340AD - sell colosseum
360AD - built Shakepseare's Theatre, sell temple, 100 gold (Alliance), 150 gold (Droids), disband chariot
380AD - built Sewer System, switched to Democracy
400AD - begin WLTPD
440AD - University, acquire Iron Working & 50 gold (Droids)
520AD - Bridge Building
580AD - size 21, ending WLTPD
600AD - Theory of Gravity, 100 gold (Droids)
war with Sand People (reputation has fallen to honorable)
620AD - built University
660AD - Economics
740AD - Gunpowder
780AD - Explosives
Robots - Navigation, 100 gold
800AD - built Engineer, disband diplomat
820AD - built Engineer
840AD - Metallurgy
880AD - built Isaac Newton's College, 200 gold (Droids), 50 gold (Jedi)
900AD - Physics
920AD - built Stock Exchange
940AD - Magnetism
980AD - Electricity, Conscription (Alliance)
1000AD - 150 gold (Droids)
1020AD - Refrigeration
1040AD - built Engineer
1060AD - Steam Engine
1080AD - Atomic Theory (Jedi)
1100AD - Railroad
1120AD - 150 gold (Droids) At this point, I'm allied with everyone but the sand people, and everyone is at peace with each other except the sand people. My reputation is "excellent"
1140AD - Industrialization
1160AD - begin WLTPD (size is 18)
1220AD - The Corporation
1240AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Refining, Combustion
1280AD - Steel
1340AD - Automobile, 250 gold (oil to Tlateloco)
1360AD - Feudalism, built Superhighway, end WLTPD (pop is 27)
1400AD - Chivalry
1440AD - Leadership
1480AD - Tactics, begin WLTPD (pop is 27)
1510AD - Machine Tools, end WLTPD (pop is 29), sell sewer system, 988 gold (demanded coal to Tlateloco)
1520AD - sell aqueduct
1530AD - Electronics
1550AD - Miniturization
1570AD - Mass Production
1590AD - Computers
1600AD - built Research Lab
1610AD - Mobile Warfare
1630AD - Robotics
1640AD - Flight (Droids)
1660AD - Radio
1680AD - Advanced Flight, built Factory, disband warrior
1690AD - built Power Plant
1700AD - Rocketry
1710AD - built Manufacturing Plant
1730AD - Space Flight
1740AD - Apollo Program
1750AD - Plastics
1754AD - Nuclear Fission
1758AD - Nuclear Power
1762AD - The Laser
1766AD - Superconductor, engineers lost due to famine
1770AD - Fusion Power, sell research lab
1772AD - sell university, famine over (size now 26)
1774AD - sell library
1778AD - 15 structurals done
1790AD - 6 modules done, AI engineers are cleaning up a lot of my polution
1796AD - Launch
1797AD - build barracks, then a bunch of defensive units
1800AD - barb pikemen on mountain fortress are both killed
1811AD - Arrival at AC

Vik, this was a good scenario. Things settled down around 1AD when the smugglers allied with me, but until then it was touch and go. It also got interesting while building the spaceship - I lost both engineers after about 8 structurals were built. The sand people never got past the pikemen on the mountain pass, but if they did I would have been in trouble.

[Scouse Gits]

What a great scenario - thanks vik - I really thought that I was going to make my first Eighteenth Century landing, but it was not to be AC in 1801

v2.42 - deity
Chose Northern Site - Settler can run from mountain if attacked
Will attempt to Celebrate continually pre Republic

3950 started mining city site - New Death Star founded
3150 city now forested add settler to city => size 3; WLDD; hut 50g
3100 Ceremonial Burial, need 50% lux to maintain celebration
3050 Temple, start Colossus
2700 Alliance with Sky People, Alphabet + Code of Laws
2250 Sky People, Monarchy + Map Making; Revolution
2200 Alliance with The Alliance, Writing, Mysticism, Mathematics + 150g
at his point Pathetic & Spotless with Enthusiastic allies
2050 MONARCHY established (ouch 200 years of anarchy)
2000 now only need 40% luxuries to maintain WLKD (gives 10 sci rather than 9)
1950 The Alliance, 50g
1900 Sky People, maps + 50g; COLOSSUS now only need 30% luxuries
1850 The Alliance, maps
1800 Second Settler joins city => size 4 (8+2 food, 24 trade, 17 sci, 8 prod)
1650 Astronomy
1600 give Astronomy to allies get 50g
1550 Library
1250 TRADE, give to allies get Literacy, CONSTRUCTION + 200g
1200 Marketplace now only 20% lux
1100 Sky People, maps + 150g
1000 TRADE ROUTE 1 - Gems to Satsuma 32g
0975 size=5 now need 30% lux (rats); allies, 50g
0950 only need 20% now?
0925 Philosophy => The Republic, REPUBLIC; TRADE ROUTE 2 - Gold to Satsuma 40g
0900 Coloseum size=6
we are still Pathetic & Spotless our allies Enthusiastic
0825 Aqueduct size=9
0750 WLCD stops @ SIZE12; need 20% lux; allies both share maps
we are Moderate & Spotless with Enthusiastic allies
0725 Rebels donate 50g; TRADE ROUTE 3 - Spice to Satsuma 72g
0700 Medicine
0575 City Walls - I'm getting paranoid!
0525 Horseback Riding
0425 give Horse get 100g
still Moderate & Spotless with Entusiastic squared.
0375 Satsuma upgrades (to 7) can now live with 10% lux
0350 The Wheel - give to allies
0325 allies give 125g
0300 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
0275 lost a turn to Civil Disorder - trade routes devalued & city went pearshaped - damn!
0225 Engineering - give to allies - maps from Sky People, 50g from Alliance
0125 SANITATION
0025 Sewer System; WLCD @12
1AD stop WLCD @13
0040 The University
0080 allies 75g + Warrior Code
0120 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; WLCD @13
0180 Alliance offers Physics + 25g
0200 University
0220 Bridge Building
0340 WLCD stops @20 (no more food); Jedi peace
0360 Theory of Gravity
0380 Invention from Sky People
0440 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; Chemistry
0520 Gunpowder; Coal to Kagushima 107g
0560 Explosives
0580 Engineers
0600 Banking
0620 Engineers
0660 Bank
0680 Democracy; Revolution
0700 DEMOCRACY
0740 75g from allies
0760 Magnetism; 150g from allies
still Moderate & Spotless with Enthusiasic allies, Jedi are Hostile Peace
0800 Metallurgy
0860 Electricity
0900 Refrigeration
0920 Supermarket
0940 Steam Engine
now Strong & Spotless
0960 at last a food surplus WLPD @ 18
1000 Railroad (I have eight allied units within my city limits)
1020 DARWIN'S VOYAGE; Economics, Industrialisation
1040 size 21; Stock Exchange; The Corporation
1080 Feudalism + 100g from Sky People
1140 Combustion
1160 stop WLPD @24
1200 Steel
1240 Automobile
1260 Superhighways
1280 Electronics, 50g from SP
1320 Conscription
1360 Mass Production; "Our Diplomat foiled a Rebel Espionage Attempt!" - new to me!
Strong & Spotless, both allies Enthusiasic as are the now Peaceful Jedi
1400 Chivalry
1420 Mass Transit - probably a waste, but I have plenty of cash
1440 Leadership
1480 Tactics; wine to Tintagel 354g
1500 Machine Tools; Wine to Tintagel 364g
Strong, Spotless and everyone Enthusiastic
1530 Computers
1540 Research Lab
1550 Atomic Theory - ADVANCES IN ONE TURN - never had this at OCC before - sci=1640 beakers at 100% with no scientists
1560 Nuclear Fission
1570 Nuclear Power
1580 Mobile Warfare
1590 Robotics
1600 Flight
1610 Factory
1620 Radio; Hydro Plant
1640 Advanced Flight - AI Engineers are building me railroads!
1660 Rocketry
1680 SPACE FLIGHT
Alliance steals SF!
We are Strong & Spotless allies Enthusiastic, Jedi Cordial
New Death Star is now size 26 with airbases on the hill, mountain & oasis (other hill turned to plain some time ago)
1690 APOLLO PROGRAM
1700 Sky People ask 'nicely' for Rocketry swap for 100g (I hope this isn't a mistake, but I don't see how any of these guys can possibly outproduce me - so all I have to do is avoid war)
1710 The Laser - AI engineers are 'helpfully' irrigating my forested river squares - I may not be able to maintain 80 shields!
Strong & Spotless, SP & RA Enthusiasic Allies, Jedi Enthusiasic Peace
1740 Plastics - first Sky People Structural
1754 Superconductor
The 'price' of Fusion Power is 3,300 beakers almost double the previous advance!
1758 Peace with the Pirates (for 50g + Railroad); Peace with Droids (for Railroad & Democracy)
The 'price; of Fusion Power is now 1,950 WHAT IS GOING ON???
Time to give loads of techs to my friends and allies ...
We are Strong & Spotless, RA Enthusiastic, SP Worshipful, J & D Enthusiastic, P Cordial
1786 LAUNCH for 1801 - blastit - I thought I might just make my first ever eighteenth century landing
Do my bit for the environment with Recycling Center & Solar Plant, not to mention the odd Stealth fighter and Vet Armour
1801 LAND AC

I maintained an out of character Spotless throughout, two alliances from the start peace with everyone else never at war.



------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

Good game SG1, I got a laugh from the AI irrigating your forested square. Putting airbases on hills is a no no in OCC (if you look at Paul's strategy guide, you will see it is considered a cheat). I doubt it helped much since you can only build them after flight, by which point you were already doing really well.

[Scouse Gits]

Woops - sorry about that - I must have missed that bit.....

[vik]

Dang, this thread is dead. I wonder if it is just a coincidence that so many "regualar" OCC players are all too busy, or, and this is what I'm afraid about, that maybe a lot of the MPGE guys just got totally wiped out with all that AI activity and chose not to post any logs.

If the latter happened to you, I would like to know (email, here, however), so that any future scenarios that I or others make will be enjoyable to all versions.

The early reviews seemed to be positive, and that's reassuring, but I'd like to hold my judgement until more MPGE people play it.

Good job SG1 -- you are in the lead. And Tom, 1811 is quite impressive considering you took time out to build Marco Polo's. I'm really surprised you had no AI contact until 300bc. That is definitely not what I was looking for.

(Note, my next post will explain the scenario from my point of view and may contain spoilers. Reading on may ruin any surprises the scenario may hold for you. I advise you to stop reading if you have not played this and/or do not want to have an unfair advantage)

[vik]

~~~~WARNING: SPOILER ALERT...READ AT OWN RISK~~~~

I can't belive there have been no posts in almost 48 hours. Is the OCC breed dying out? I hope not...(!)

The main challenge I was hoping to present you players with was, you guessed it, winning back your resource squares taken by an Ally. In other words, “elbow room.” I set all the AI’s attitudes towards you at “one,” one a scale from 0-99 with 0 being friendliest and 99 being most hostile. Except for the Sandpeople – I made them hate everybody. I tried to vary the AI’s attitudes towards other AI’s, generally hating the Sandpeople, and weary of the Droids. All the “island” nations should have been generally friendly with each other, but each time I played it, they always seemed to war with each other. That’s okay, because I thought it was pretty neat having a war (between your allies) right on your front yard.

Basically, I was hoping for contact (and subsequent alliances) with 2-4 AI civs by 2500-2000 bc. Each time I test played (4 in all), this happened quite easily. With your 3 extra settlers, you had the option of rapid irrigation, mining, and roads over your resource squares, and I assumed a lot of you would take 2 or 3 settlers and do this, and then possibly rebuild them into your city. After making all these alliances as a size 4 city, you would face the challenge of winning back your resource squares taken by your Allies. The first two times, I would break the alliance, fortify a unit on the contested square, and hope for another alliance later. This resulted in several "reputation hits" and my final reputation was a lot lower than normal. That's why I asked you to look at this. On my third and fourth tries, I would use my settler to make the resource square less desirable. In one instance, this involved mining a Grassland Shield square to forest, and then later irrigating it back to plains once I controlled it (ouch!). But it kept my reputation in tact.

Other challenges:

Map Size: The map was ultra-small. I believe it was 32x32. It was the smallest I could make it, and most of it was ocean squares. I really wanted that AI to build secondary homes all around your city.

Trade: Who to trade with? You could possibly bribe a trireme and get better routes on different “continents,” or you could bus a caravan 5 squares away and get a small quick route established. You would have to worry about the AI destroying another AI city on your little rock, which happened to me once during test play, causing me to unexpectedly lose a trade route and unexpectedly throwing my city into disorder as a result.

Technology: I gave you and each of the island nations varied starting techs. When you meet, it should have been likely you could trade about 2 or 3 techs with each other. I planned for all these meetings to occur before monarchy, so everyone had a decision to make. Also, in the end game, I wanted the AI’s to have access to you so they could demand space flight, plastics, etc., and have you choose if you wanted to cancel an alliance over this, or to give it to them.

Droids: I gave them a lot of starting techs. I thought that if you met them, you would not be able to trade very much. It probably didn’t happen that way, though.

Sandpeople: Those barb pikemen on the rock were supposed to be there until well beyond the AD years started. I gave them a bunch of “Warrior” type techs, so that when they did break through, you would have to deal with a large and advanced military. For your benefit, I made some nice AI city spots on your side of the rock, so that the Sandpeople would have to fight through one or two AI’s cities to get to you. I also covered the West side of their half of the island with a lot of mountains and hills to discourage them from building port cities that pointed right to your location. I would not have expected those pikemen to last until the 18th century, though, as they did in Tom's game.

Alpha Centauri: There weren’t a lot of places for the AI to build new cities, which I hoped would prevent them from “Rush-building” a SS and launching it 7 years before you land on AC. I hate it when that happens.

Game Setup: When you started with 2 warriors and 4 settlers in 3900bc, each AI civ already had 3 cities built. They all had one settler, a warrior in each city, and the island nations each had a trireme with your half of the landmass in view of their trireme. Unfortunately, they seemed to want to attack the other island nations on their home islands rather than rapid expansion on your island. Maybe there is a way around this, but I’m just not sure how to manipulate it.

But you live and learn. Building Marco’s was not what I had in mind. And so far no one losing any resource squares for any length of time is also odd to me. I would have thought AI’s would be crawling all around your city. Oh well.

For my next scenario, whenever I can get around to doing it, I plan on a similar theme to OCC Fortnight #4, where there are several distinct and viable possibilities as to where you put your first city. That's all I can say, because I haven't started it yet, and probably won't start on it until I return from Korea in about 2 and a half weeks. I'm also conceptualizing an island scenario for future play on down the road.

As always, I appreciate the feedback you've given me here. I request more of it. Thanks.


~~~~~END OF SPOILER ALERT~~~~~

[Tom DeMille]

I thought I was being very clever in building Marco Polo. I was surprised when I saw others had had AI contact in the 3000s BC. At the time, there wasn't much else to build, so I figured why not!

Bribing a trireme was important for this scenario. Delivering caravans to bigger cities (especially if they demanded the resource) off continent adds up over the game. Contacting all civs (for those not building Marco Polo ) is also important. Later advances would have been much more expensive for me if I hadn't been able to gift all my science to the other civs.

I've never had the AI launch a spaceship on me in an OCC game (not to say it doesn't happen ), so your worry about them having too much growth room is probably unfounded. What the lack of room did do was cause a lot of action on my doorstep. I've never had 3 AI cities close enough to threaten my resource squares before.

As far as loosing some of your city squares, it doesn't matter if the AI is crawling all around your city. It only matters if they build a city early and have it grow in size before you have grown enough to take all squares. When the AI starting building its cities on my continent, I was well on my way to size 12. I tended to adjust the squares I was using to the periphery of my city site. I doubt the AI actively adjusts the squares it cultivates.

A lot of AI units killed themselves on the barbarian mountain fortress. I wasn't too worried about it falling, although I would have been in trouble if it did fall!

[Scouse Gits]

The barb Pikes were still standing at the end of the game - in fact in 1800 I wasted a non vet Stealth Fighter against them just for fun! I tried to race a vet Howie across (also in 1800) but a diplo on the tracks stopped me from getting there.
As for the contest for resource squares, like Tom I ensured my city was utilising any squares at risk and beyond this had no problems.
p.s. For me its getting remarkably close to exam time (setting, writing marking schemes etc.) perhaps since many of the posters here are of student age the drop in activity suggests the onset of revision (unlikely, but it might just be the case)

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Scouse Gits]

A quick note about caravans:
I would have completely agreed with Tom's remark above, but in this game I only had 5 trade good caravans (+ 1 oil caravan that I kept in the hope that someone would eventually demand it and finally used in the Apollo construction) All 5 went to local cities - yes I feel I missed out on something, but I also had my best ever game - so what is the 'right' answer - wish I knew

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Paul]

I had a bit of a slow start, but an 18th century landing would still have been possible if that stupid Han Solo hadn't sneak attacked me while I was building my spaceship. I did not yet have any defensive units, so I had to build an armor and I also lost some more turns because he had units on my land and I could not get my 80 shields.

3900 BC Persepolis
Add second Settler
3750 BC Hut: Warrior Code
3650 BC Phalanx (I didn't actually want to build one; I just forgot to switch to Warrior when I settled the city)
3500 BC Warrior
3050 BC Ceremonial Burial
2700 BC Cloudy civ destroyed by Smugglers
2600 BC Barbs kill Phalanx
2500 BC Alphabet
2050 BC Smugglers: war
1900 BC Colossus
Code of Laws
Smugglers: alliance
1500 BC Smugglers: gift Map Making
1450 BC Smugglers: share maps
1300 BC Marketplace
1200 BC Smugglers: gift Monarchy, revolution
Warrior
1150 BC Smugglers: gift Horseback Riding
1100 BC Barb Leader: 150 gold
1100 BC Smugglers: gift Wheel
1050 BC Gov: Monarchy
1000 BC Smugglers: share maps
825 BC Writing
Rebels: trade Mysticism, Seafaring; alliance; share maps; gift 150 gold
800 BC Library
Smugglers: trade Mathematics, Trade; gift 125 gold
725 BC Catapult
675 BC Build Silver Caravan
650 BC Catapult gets killed against Pikemen
625 BC Diplomat
600 BC Rebels: gift 75 gold
Smugglers: gift 250 gold
575 BC Smugglers: share maps; gift 150 gold
Bribe Smuggler Trireme (Unfortunately it's not a NONE)
550 BC Build Hides Caravan
Rebels: gift Polytheism
525 BC Silver to Kells (demanded): 252 gold
500 BC Temple
Construction
475 BC Jedi: alliance; share maps; gift 50 gold
Robots: peace
450 BC Build Gold Caravan
425 BC Robots: trade Iron Working; share maps
400 BC Build Coal Caravan
375 BC Rebels: gift 100 gold
Smugglers: gift 25 gold
350 BC Build Spice Caravan
325 BC Rebels: share maps; gift 100 gold
Sand-People: peace; trade Literacy; share maps
300 BC Hides to Osaka (demanded): 176 gold
Smugglers: trade Engineering
250 BC Jedi: gift 25 gold
Smugglers: gift 50 gold
Barb Leader: 150 gold
150 BC Colosseum
100 BC Aqueduct
Bribe Rebel Trireme for 88 gold (again not a NONE)
75 BC Bribe Smuggler Trireme for 128 gold (finally a NONE)
50 BC Food Caravan
25 BC Republic, revolution
Gov: Republic
Jedi: gift 100 gold
Smugglers: gift 200 gold
Add Settler to Persepolis (now size 6)
Start WLTCD
1 AD Food Caravan
40 AD Food Caravan
Smugglers: gift 50 gold
60 AD Coal to Camarthen (not demanded): 196 gold
80 AD Build Wine Caravan
120 AD Food Caravan
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
140 AD Astronomy
Sold Temple
Smugglers: gift 100 gold
160 AD Copernicus' Observatory
Spice to Tenochtitlan (not demanded): 332 gold
200 AD Philosophy, Medicine
Wine to Nottingham (demanded): 450 gold
220 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
Start WLTCD, size 12
240 AD Sanitation
Gold to London (not demanded): 256 gold
260 AD Sewer System
300 AD Build Spice Caravan
320 AD University
340 AD University
380 AD Food Caravan
400 AD Banking
420 AD Bank
End WLTCD, size 20
460 AD Food Caravan
Theory of Gravity
Spice to Tenochtitlan (not demanded): 408 gold
480 AD Isaac Newton's College
Bridge Building
Rebels: trade Invention
Smugglers: gift 150 gold
520 AD Democracy, revolution
540 AD Gov: Democracy
Smugglers: gift 50 gold
580 AD Food Caravan
Chemistry
Sand-People: war
620 AD Gunpowder
Food Caravan
640 AD Smugglers: gift Navigation
660 AD Food Caravan
Explosives
700 AD Engineer
Economics
740 AD Engineer
Physics
780 AD Stock Exchange
800 AD Magnetism
820 AD Food Caravan
840 AD Metallurgy
Smugglers: gift 75 gold
860 AD Food Caravan
880 AD Electricity
920 AD Robots: trade Steam Engine
Refrigeration
Food Caravan
960 AD Supermarket
Railroad
1000 AD Industrialization
1020 AD Food Caravan
1040 AD Steel
1060 AD Food Caravan
1080 AD Corporation
1100 AD Food Freight
1120 AD Refining
1160 AD Food Freight
Combustion
1200 AD Automobile
Start WLTPD, size 18
1220 AD Superhighways
1260 AD Oil Freight
Electronics
1300 AD Darwin's Voyage: Mass Production, Atomic Theory
Rebels: trade Conscription, Feudalism
1340 AD Food Freight
Chivalry
1380 AD Food Freight
Leadership
1420 AD End WLTCD, size 27
Droids: trade Flight
1440 AD Tactics
Oil to Tenochtitlan (not demanded): 274 gold
1480 AD Machine Tools
1510 AD Miniaturization
1530 AD Computers
1540 AD Research Lab
1550 AD Mobile Warfare
1560 AD Factory
1570 AD Robotics
Sold Sewer System
1580 AD Power Plant
1590 AD Radio
1600 AD Manufacturing Plant
Sold Aqueduct
1610 AD Advanced Flight
1630 AD Rocketry
1650 AD Space Flight
1660 AD Apollo Program
1670 AD Plastics
Smugglers: cancel alliance
1690 AD Nuclear Fission
1710 AD Nuclear Power
1730 AD Laser
1750 AD Smugglers: sneak attack
Jedi destroyed by Sand-People
1758 AD Superconductor
1766 AD Armor
1774 AD Fusion Power
1790 AD Launch
1791 AD Stealth
1794 AD Recycling
1795 AD Sand-People: peace
1796 AD Mass Transit
1797 AD Environmentalism
1798 AD Solar Plant
1800 AD Communism
1803 AD Espionage
Sand-People: sneak attack
1805 AD Alpha Centauri

[Smash]

well...um...my game went a little differently.My early game was ok and followed normal OCC plans.Perhaps I was in a bad mood or something but after keeping my island clear of ai cities for 4000 years I got tired of constantly warding off settlers and sacking new cities that I built 6 cities on my island and conquered the tiny tiny map in 1300 AD.

This scenario was actually alot of fun but my inability to allow ai cities so close(goes against my OCC instincts) turned it into a mad bloodlust.Besides would Vader peacefully coexist with the likes of Han or The Alliance?I think not

[Paul]

Table finished. SG has the best result in this game so far.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

[Hoss]

I play using v2.42. At the end of the game my reputation was spotless. That's what it normally is (unless I'm offered alot of gold to declare war on a civ, in which case it is excellent). I had 4 alliances that I kept throughout the game and actually found the AI easier to deal with than in most games.

The highlights of my game:
Wonders Colossus -2100
Copernicus -400
Newton 20AD
Shakespeare 260
Darwin 720
Apollo 1680
Governments Monarchy -1750
Republic -875
Democracy 400AD
Trade Routes 480AD, 580AD, 700AD
Techs Construction -2050
Trade -875
Sanitation 140AD
Automobile 1240
Computers 1510
Space Flight 1670
(I never researched Refrigeration)
City Size 12 (-700) 21 (580 but was size 20 in 340)
Gold From Alliances/Barbarians 1475
From Trade 680

I played on the lower site because the grape special provided more shields. I only got into the low 60s for shields, but had about 30 freights to disband so I could build my space ship in the 24 turns.



3750 50g Hut
3650 Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial, Map Making Alliance
Alliance with Alliance
3200 Writing and 25g Alliance
2350 Code of Laws
2200 Alliance with Cloudy
Horseback Riding, Warrior Code, 100g Cloudy
50g Alliance
2100 Colossus
2050 Construction, Mathematics Alliance
1850 Temple
Monarchy Cloudy
1750 Became Monarchy
Marketplace
1650 Warrior
1550 Alliance with Pirates
50g Cloudy
25g Alliance
1450 Iron Working Pirates
Seafaring Alliance
1350 Literacy Cloudy
1300 Mysticism Jedi
Alliance with Jedi
Diplomat
1000 150g Alliance
975 Colossuem
900 Philosophy
Republic
875 Became Republic
825 Trade Cloudy
Feudalism, 50g Alliance
Banking, 75g Jedi
700 Size 12
650 Bridge Building, 100g Alliance
425 Astronomy
400 Copernicus
325 University
275 Bank
175 Theory of Gravity
The Wheel Jedi
150g Alliance
50g Pirates
25g Cloudy
20 Newton
Engineering
140 Sanitation
Chivalry Cloudy
100g Cloudy
160 Sewer System
50g Jedi
25g Pirates
220 Coal to Armagh 57g
240 Bribe Trireme
260 Shakespeare
300 Invention
340 We Love to size 20
University
Democracy
400 Become Democracy
460 Economics
480 Gold to York 360g
500 Navigation Pirates
520 Metallurgy
Stock Exchange
580 Physics
Size 21
640 Steam Engine
680 Peace with Droids
700 Spice to Teotihuacan 156g
Railroad
720 Darwin
Chemistry
Industrialization
760 Explosives
820 Magnitism
880 Factory
Electricity
900 Conscription Alliance
50g Alliance
100g Pirates
100g Cloudy
940 Steel
1000 Corporation
1020 Oil to Osaka 107g
1060 Electronics
1120 Refining
1180 Combustion
50g Alliance
1240 Automobile
1260 Superhighways
1280 Mass Production
1320 Leadership
1360 Mass Transit
Tactics
1420 Machine Tools
1480 Minituarization
1510 Computers
1530 Research Lab
1540 Atomic Theory
1560 Flight
1580 Radio
1610 Advanced Flight
1640 Rocketry
1650 Ship killed by barbarians
1670 Space Flight
1680 Apollo
1700 Plastics (SS= 2-0-0)
1730 Nuclear Fission (SS= :4-1-0)
1754 Nuclear Power (SS= 8-1-0)
1760 The Laser (SS= 10-2-0)
1768 Superconductor (SS=14-2-0)
1774 150g Barbarian
1776 Fusion Power (SS=15-4-1)
1784 Launch
1790 Polytheism Alliance
1799 Land

[Scouse Gits]

Well done Hoss - good game (he sobs)

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[crowatbitemedotcom]

Wow, I feel like I just went 13 rounds...

Here are the highlights. I was using MPG and chose the southern location.

Monarchy -1650
Republic - 325
Democracy 1180

Colossus -2000
Copes 480
Shakes 920
INC 1550
Darwin 1790
Apollo 1865

1st trade -125
2nd & 3rd 1 AD

Trade -1100
Cons -800
Sani 500
Refrig 1620
Auto 1800
Comp 1828
Space Flt 1852

Size 8 -250
12 -50
21 1772
max 25 1784

Tech City
Imporvement Misc Diplomacy
2 -3900 Build Vaderville (southern location), add settlers to city
5 -3750 Warriors Start Colossus
7 -3650 WC(h)
20 -3000 Alpha
24 -2800 Meet smugglers, give WC, masonry, get alliance & mapmaking
27 -2650 Meet Sky People, get CerBur, CoL for Pottery & Mapmaking, get alliance & 50g
28 -2600 Satsuma overlaps oasis & 1 river square
29 -2550 Smugglers at war w Sky People (good for me!)
31 -2450 Two Smuggler Warriors waste themselves on Sky Settler
35 -2250 Writing for Currency from Smugglers, they demand war on Sky People, I refuse, alliance dissolved
40 -2000 Colossus
46 -1700 Monarchy Revolution!
47 -1650 Monarchy
49 -1550 Library
56 -1200 Sky, Horse for Mon, dissolve alliance
57 -1150 Marketplace
58 -1100 Trade
62 -950 Temple
67 -825 Hides caravan
68 -800 Construction
72 -700 Gold caravan
75 -625 Diplomat Sky demand 100g, declare war
77 -575 Literacy Phalanx
79 -525 Add settlers to city
81 -475 Colossieum
83 -425 Diplomat
87 -325 Republic Rev, Repub
88 -300 Coal caqravan WLTCD (6)
89 -275 Meet smugglers, get Astro, Math, Myst, Poly for Con, BW, Repub, WC, alliance
90 -250 Cease fire with Sky people, give Trade to Alliance to maintain alliance
94 -150 Aqueduct Smugglers demand trade, declare war; I capture Hastings, take 37g & Bridge, they ask for peace, given
95 -125 Coal to Satsuma, 64g
98 -50 End WLTCD I(12)
99 -25 Phil, Univ Silver caravan
100 0 Silver to Satsuma, 180g, Hides to Satsuma,72g
103 60 Spice caravan Could've had the caravans delivered sooner if I didn't waste time looking for a trireme to bribe
104 80 Medicine Start Copes
105 100 Sky threatening with cat & knights, switch to city walls
106 120 City walls Sky attack
109 180 Archers
111 220 Wheel
115 300 Bribe barb crusader
119 380 Engineering
124 480 Copes
125 500 Sanitation
129 580 Banking
134 680 TheoryofGrav
140 800 Econ
146 920 Chem Shakes Sell colossieum
147 940 Sell temple
148 960 Sewer
149 980 Start WLTCD (12)
150 1000 Phalanx
152 1040 Invention Phalanx
157 1140 End WLTCD(19)
158 1160 Democracy Bank Rev olution
159 1180 Phalanx Dem
160 1200 Phalanx
161 1220 Phalanx Meet Jedis, get Iron, Seafaring for Repub and Bank, alliance
163 1260 Gunpowder Phalanxes were a waste of time
164 1280 End war with Sky People
167 1340 Metallurgy Jedis expel Diplomat from within my own territory!
171 1420 Navigation
175 1500 Explosives
179 1540 Physics
180 1550 INC finally! Cloud demand 250g, declare war, Jedis assist
182 1570 Cease fire with Sky but no peace, Pirates, San for Feudalism, trade maps
183 1580 University
184 1590 Electricity Damn Sky cat on gold sq.
187 1620 Refrig Sky declare war
188 1630 Cease fire with Sky but no peace
190 1650 Steam
191 1660 Stock Ex Sand people damaging Jedis
193 1680 RR Engineers Sky threatening again
195 1700 Supermarket
196 1710 Industrialization
199 1740 The Corp
201 1752 Smugglers declare war, I take Warwick & Leadership
203 1756 Steel
204 1758 Factory Sky declare war - prepare to die!
205 1760 Musketeers Smugglers start Darwin
206 1762 Musketeers Sky start Darwin
207 1764 Refining
208 1766 Cannon WLTPD(18)
209 1768 Diplomat Steal Feudalism from Sky
210 1770 Diplomat
211 1772 Conscription Diplomat Peace treaty with Sky people
212 1774 Start Darwin
215 1780 Electronics Sky keep appropriating gold mtn
216 1782 Jedis destroyed by Sky
217 1784 End WLTPD(25)
220 1790 Combustion, Auto Darwin Sky cannoning away at barb pikemen on mountain
221 1792 Sky declare war again, I lose engineer
223 1796 Tactics
225 1800 Auto
226 1802 Hydro
227 1804 MobileWar
228 1806 SuperHighways
230 1810 Machine Tools Armor! Pollution getting out of hand
232 1814 Armor
233 1816 Minituarization Engineers Take Hladir, 28g; GD senate signs peace treaty. WTF am I going to do with these armor?!?!?!?
234 1818 Freight Rebels destroyed by Sky
236 1822 MassProd Freight Sky destroy Sandy
237 1824 Freight
238 1826 Freight
239 1828 Computers Freight Sky complete MC in 3 turns!
240 1830 Freight
241 1832 Low on food
242 1834 Robotics ResearchLab
244 1838 Flight MassTransit Lose engineers
245 1840 Freight
246 1842 Radio Freight
247 1844 Freight
248 1846 AdvFlt Freight
249 1848 Freight
250 1850 Rocketry Freight
251 1851 Engineers Meet Robots, they declare war
252 1852 SpaceFlt
254 1854 Plastics Pollution back under control
256 1856 Atomic Theory Manu plant
258 1858 Nuclear Fission Sell Aqueduct
259 1859 Sell Sewer
260 1860 Nuclear Power Should've sold sooner but I thought I could increase city size
263 1863 Laser
265 1865 Apollo
266 1866 Superconductor Engineers
267 1867 Component Prod at 74
268 1868 Component
269 1869 Component Pollution getting bad, prod @ 76
270 1870 Component 6 polluted sqs
271 1871 Component
272 1872 Fusion Component
276 1876 Prod at 79
277 1877 Module
278 1878 Recycling litle late for that!
279 1879 Module Prod at 81 finally!
280 1880 Structural
281 1881 Structural
282 1882 Structural
283 1883 Structural
284 1884 Stealth Structural
285 1885 Structural
286 1886 Structural
287 1887 Structural
288 1888 Structural
289 1889 Structural
290 1890 Environmentalism Structural
291 1891 Structural
292 1892 Structural
293 1893 Structural
294 1894 Structural
295 1895 Module Launch! ETA 1910
296 1896 Combined Arms Barracks
297 1897 Oil caravan Oil caravan to Nara, 160g, weak! It was demanded!
298 1898 Howitzer
299 1899 Howitzer
301 1901 Communism Airport
302 1902 Stealth Ftr Bribe robot cruiser for 256g, why so cheap?!?
304 1904 Recycling Center Sky start SETI, think I'll build it instead!
305 1905 Sell research lab
307 1907 SETI Sky declare war
308 1908 Espionage Howitzer
309 1909 Armor
310 1910 AC! Power Strong, rep Spotless, Sky Uncooperative, Droids and Smugglers Enraged

I only delivered 4 caravans, my lowest total ever. Also, I didn't capture a single barb leader and got almost no money from demands/gifts.

Did anyone else make it through on MPG?

[Paul]

Well done Hoss. A bit unconventional to build INC before ST, but apparently it worked.

[Oldman]

I know this is late, but nevermind!!! Here is my attept at OCC6, i was the slowest to AC out of you guys, but i beat the rest of the civs!! I wasn't really able to trade Techs with them cause i was quite a way out in front and they never caught up!! Anyway, here is the log!!!!!


v2.42 Deity

Monarchy 925bc
Republic 325bc
Democracy 1260ad

Colossus 1750bc
Observatory 140ad
Marco Polo 460ad
Theatre 880ad
Newtons 1500ad
Darwins 1720ad
Apollo 1886ad

Trade 750bc
Cons 875bc
Sani 940ad
Refrig 1720
Auto 1798
Comp 1846
Space Flt 1876

Size 12 75bc
Size 24 1826ad
Max size 27 in 1869ad


3900bc founded Coruscant
started colossus
started ceremonial burial
3400bc horseback riding from ancient scrolls
3000bc ceremonial burial invented
starts alphabet
2550bc added settler to Coruscant
2400bc invented alphabet
starts code of laws
1900bc formed alliance with rebels!??!
exchanged pottery for writing
1750bc Colossus!!!
1500bc Code of Laws!!!
starts monarchy
gift of map making from alliance
1300bc rushed library
1250bc added settler to Coruscant (size 4)
975bc invented monarchy
Revolution!!!
925bc King Daft Oldman!!!!
875bc exchanged monarchy for Construction with rebels
850bc gave smugglers 100 for peace treaty!
built marketplace
825bc WLTKD started
750bc invented TRADE!!!!!
exchanged construction for Mystisism with smugglers
wheel from rebel alliance
600bc Exchanged Wheel for Seafaring with smugglers
exchanged trade for polytheisism, and 300 gift from rebels
550bc 250 gift from rebels
exchanged seafaring for literacy
425bc diplomat!
375bc invented republic - revolution!!!!
WLTKD ends
325bc REPUBLIC!!!
exchanged literacy for maths with smugglers
300bc WLTCD started size 5
Caravan
250bc rushed aquaduct
200bc rushed temple
WLTCD ends size9
150bc WLTCD started size9
gift of 200 from rebels
100bc diplomat
started marco polo
75bc SIZE 12!!!
50bc WLTCD ends
1st Trade (silver) unwanted
25bc invented astronomy
changed to observatory!
120ad rushed observatory
gave sand people construction for peace!
140ad built observatory!!!!
200ad catapult
starts marco polo
220ad exchange republic for war code, and give banking to rebels
260ad bribed barbarian archer
320ad philosophy (not the 1st)
440ad fortification at pass
rushed marco polos
460ad gave republic and war code to pirates
built marco polo
exchanged construction for feudalism with coud people
gave seafaring and banking to robots for peace
gave iron working, and got gift of 75 from rebels!
480ad 75 gift from rebels
540ad monothesiesm from rebels ally
560ad starts great wall (to get theatre!)
caravan
580ad 2nd Trade - 64 revenue (unwanted)
600ad Invented Medecine
changed to theatre!
disbanded catapult
700ad exchanged astronomy for engineering with droids
760ad Bridge Building!!
exchanged bridge building for navigation with rebels and 50 gift!
860ad gift of 100 from rebels
rushed theatre
880ad theatre built
940ad Sanitation!!
960ad Caravan
980ad 3rd Trade - 32 revenue
1000ad rushed sewer system
1020ad sewer system built
1040ad WLTCD started size 12
1060ad gave navigation to jedi
exchanged medicine for uni plus 100 gift from rebels
sold aquaduct and bribed rebel Caravel - No trouble!!!
1080ad Invention invented?!?
1140ad built aquaduct again?!?! doh!
started on wonder
1160ad declared war on sand people for 500!!!
geography shared with rebels!!
1200ad Democracy - revolution!!
1260ad DEMOCRACY!!!!!
1280ad WTLPD size 16
1320ad invention for physics from rebels!!
1400ad bribed jedi tireme!!
1420ad Gravity?!?!
1500ad newtons college
50 gift from rebels
1530ad WLTPD cancelled size 19
rushed uni
1540ad university
1550ad steam engine invented
exchange steam for chemistry with rebels
1560ad caravan
1570ad railroad!!
1600ad industrialisation
bank
1610ad trade (spice) 144 revenue!
1630ad gunpowder
1670ad metallurgy
1680ad 50 gift from rebels
1710ad electricity!!!
rushed darwin!!
1720ad darwin!! refridgeration! explosives!
1740ad engineer
1754ad caravan, economics
1756ad rushed supermarket
1758ad supermarket
1762ad corporation
payed 50 tribute to jedi + railroad, shared maps!!
1764ad trade (oil) 140 revenue
1768ad electronics
1774ad engineers
1776ad refining
1780ad gave gunpowder to cloudies, and exchanged navigation for chivalry
1782ad allies invent communism - no more marco polo
1784ad combustion
1792ad steel
1798ad automobile
1802ad frieght - trade 218 revenue! WLTPD size 18
1804ad rushed superhighways
1808ad mass production
1810ad jedis wage war on me!! destroy militia
bribe jedi chariot
1812ad freight
1814ad leadership
1818ad trade coal - 284 revenue
rushed mass trans
1820ad mass transit and conscription
1826ad WLTPD ends size 24, tactics!!!
1834ad caravan, machine tools!
1840ad mianturization
1844ad sneak attack by cloudies destroys caravel!?!
trade coal - revenue 870
1846ad computers!!!
1848ad rushed research centre
1850ad allied to pirates for 50 and railroad (twice)
1851ad atomic theory!
1853ad recycling!
rushed recycling centre
1854ad recycle centre!
disbanded engineers
1855ad Nuclear power!
1856ad rushed factory
1857ad nuclear fission!
factory
ceasefire with cloudies for metallurgy!
1859ad caravan
1860ad laser!!!!
1863ad flight - oh no!!
trade coal - 463 revenue
1865ad WLTPD starts 24
1866ad radio!
1869ad WLTPD ends size 27!
1870ad advanced flight!
1873ad rocketry!
1876ad space flight
1879ad alliance steel space flight
1880ad environmentalism
1884ad plastics
1886ad apollo
1884ad superconductor
1923ad 3 modules
15 structurals
6 components
launch - 1938 landing
1938ad [b]AC landing!!!!!!
Daft Oldman the Cruel! 286 points, 38%

[Scouse Gits]

Well done, Oldman! That does sound quintessentially English doesn't it?

Just a couple of comments upon your log - hopefully helpful ones.

Towards the end it appears that you did not have enough caravans on hand - you should be aiming for somewhere around 30 caravans in stock for when space flight comes - you can now rush Apollo and each SS part in one turn for no gold cost (assuming 80 production) - if you have fewer caravans you need more gold to compensate, but the cost effective solution is to invest early in caravans rather than save the money for later use.

It also appears as if you only had techs every two turns for a short while - on this map (for the first time ever in my OCC experience) I managed 1 tech per turn for a short period - you should certainly have been at tech per two turns for longer - don't be afraid of running a deficit economy in order to have that science cranked up to 90 or 100% - as a rule of thumb (definitely NOT carved in stone) set you science rate at the lowest that maintains the highest science rate - (that was gibberish - what I mean is if you can get an advance in 3 turns on 100% science you will often find that it is still 3 turns at 80% - so use 80%!) A certain amount of fine tuning is possible by the use of Einsteins and Taxmen and I'm fairly certain that the perfectionists such as Tom, Paul and vik are carefully counting beakers (you can determine the actual cost by taking off all Eins and moving the science rate to 0% the number of turns now shown is the actual beaker cost for the advance - you note this down reset your tax rate and Eins and count off the beakers as they are contributed each turn - I may once have been a mathematician, but I'm certainly not an accountant and that smacks of too much hard work to me - but each to their own!

Does this help - it began to feel rather too much like a diatribe.



------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Oldman]

Cheers Scouse, yeah i really wanted to have a stock of caravans or a wad of cash. But somehow time kind of got away from me?!?!

I'm not quite sure how you got techs every turn?!?! did you manage to get that rate for very long? Am i right in thinking that the amount of beakers required is dependant on lots of stuff, including how far ahead you are? because i was along way out in front!! the alliance were the closest and were only on Automobile until they stole space flight!!! should i give them more and let them research "useful" stuff for me and then trade, or beg for it, does that kind of thing work? but i'm just hopeing it's an excuse!!!

But it was a good game all the same!! i enjoyed it!!! I'm still getting to grips with the whole OCC strategy thing! my usual tactic is to spread like rabbits, occupy every bit of vacant land!! grow fast, and build everything! i usually get such a tech advantage i can be lazy and not pay too much attention to any one city!!

But, i think i'm getting better with practice!! I'm hopeing to be within about 50 years of the winner this time and not over 100!!! have you started viks new one?

[Scouse Gits]

Just had another look at your log - two aqueducts didn't help, but the mass transit and recycling center were way off mark - two engineers can handle all polution problems - to get a decent OCC landing date you have to cut all those corners - environmentalism (what's that?) and don't forget each 'uneccessary' tech increases the cost of every single tech you research after it!!!!!
There has been a lot of discussion about what influences the cost of techs - the consensus appears to be that the more powerful you are the more expensive they get, not as far as I recall the more advanced you are - but I believe the jury is still out on the fine detail.
It seems to work well keeping your allies more or less abreast of you with techs at least until somewhere around the automobile stage - that way they have worthwhile stuff to trade - remember to always give the guy with The Library any tech first - otherwise he gets it for free. This strategy can come unstuck - note vik getting beaten last time out even though his landing was incredibly early - my personal style is give anything (except unreasonably large sums of money to the AIs and regularly demand tribute in return - if they are allies you are informed when they discover/acquire a useful tech and then you trade for it and give it to your other allies thus making them all v happy and donate large tribute - once an ally falls to Neutral or below tread very carefully - I feel it is generally worthwhile to maintain the alliance at nearly any cost.

So endeth the Second Lesson.

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Oldman]

Yeah, the double aquaduct thing!!!! i read that you guys sold off your aquaducts once you'd no longer need them!! but i didn't realise that you could grow without it, a bit of short sightedness on my part and my being unable to reload to correct the mistake i learnt from - but i'll know next time!!!

I shall remember about the mass transit and recycling, environmentalism was to get solar plant - same reasons!!! It's just a case of cutting as many corners as you can, but i'm slowly learning which ones!!!!

I pretty much try to keep my alliances as long as i can, to help with tech exchanges and trades. which is why i usually go to marco polo!!! i always have, it saves building diplomats, and i think it's actually cheaper and quicker than building 6 dipolmats - but don't quote me on that!!!! And that's a good point about the library! i'll remember that!! !!

[Scouse Gits]

Marco's!! You built Marco's! - goes back and checks log - you built Marco's!
In a 'normal' OCC it is rare that we ever build even one diplo - you don't need an embassy with the AI - just meet, talk and hopefully ally -- you have been misled by the seriously wierd nature of the last few challenges on this board - for instance on the polar ice it was a choice between the Lighthouse (my way) or wait until caravels for trade and get the early treaties (and tribute) via Marco's - I think if you do the sums Marco's + Aqueduct + Mass Transit + Recycling Center = enough caravans to rush SF to AC in 40 turns!!!
Your city cannot grow at all once you lose the aqueduct (as you discovered) you might consider losing once you have achieved size 21 or whatever goal you need (I dont think that it increases pollution - as losing the sewage plant would - but then who cares about pollution?)

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor