Mind Worms and Automated colonies

Vytae · July 9, 2001, 05:18

Mid to late game when my empire is getting large,or just plain complicated i prefer to only mirco manage my oldest/most built cities and combat units and like to leave all my border and backwater colonies to their own devices.

Unfortunatley those colonies seem to have a serious fixation on mind worms and IOD's and will build nothing but them and then garrison them in the cities never moving them out,even when an enemy unit is within site. What are some of the govenor settings other people use? and what class are mindworms? i think their land defense but im not sure. How can i make my automated colonies smarter? Does anyone ever use air bases? =o

couldnt resist that last one does anyone every really build air bases and actually use them?

Earwicker · July 9, 2001, 10:36

I never turn over bases to their Governors. Too many bad decisions. Running out of room in the Punishment Spheres with all those failed Governors . . .

Rather than auto, which is sure to give you lots of things you don't need (like spending 15 turns to build a hatchling IoD), have them build rover formers (or clean rover formers), or supply crawlers. You can either use them to boost up local production, or send them to your main bases or SSC. Or set one base to an SP and use nearby backwater bases feed it with crawlers. Not something critical like the HSA, mind you, but a could-use kind of SP. Like the Pholus Mutagen or the +2 support one. If it falls into enemy hands for a while it won't kill you, or send your faction into disorder, or hugely benefit the enemy. But it won't tie up mainline production of the Nano Factory or Cloudbase Academy.

I remember building airbases in my first few games (Civ2 holdover) but have never needed them for anything for the last couple of years. If suppose if you're defending a remote energy park they could be useful for your airpower, but it would be better to just build a base nearby. Maybe if probe harassment was a concern . . .

Robby Boy · July 9, 2001, 18:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytae

Unfortunatley those colonies seem to have a serious fixation on mind worms and IOD's and will build nothing but them and then garrison them in the cities never moving them out,even when an enemy unit is within site

Maybe I've got this one wrong (I never use governor settings) but surely the only person who can control your troops is YOU. The governor only decides what is to be built and how the base is run, how the units stationed within your base are used is up to you.

Vytae · July 9, 2001, 23:54

Not so Robby Boy,when you put on "automate all units built here" the governor will send out and attack/harass with combat units it builds (untill mindworms are available anyhow) atleast it does for units other than lifeforms.

Earwicker · July 10, 2001, 13:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytae
Not so Robby Boy,when you put on "automate all units built here" the governor will send out and attack/harass with combat units it builds (untill mindworms are available anyhow) atleast it does for units other than lifeforms.

Hmmm, I never use Governors but this sort of automation is something I'd never do. We've all seen how dumb the AI is when controlling its troops. Don't want to give it the chance with mine.

RedFred · July 10, 2001, 14:45

I never use auto guv myself but I seem to recall that you can control your bases' production somewhat by either the govenor preferences settings or by deleting the units you don't want build right out of your design workshop.

Earwicker · July 11, 2001, 12:32

Quote:

Originally posted by RedFred
I never use auto guv myself but I seem to recall that you can control your bases' production somewhat by either the govenor preferences settings or by deleting the units you don't want build right out of your design workshop.

That's a good point but it won't solve the proclivity for governors to build native life. Those can't be obsoleted out of the list, can they?

[typos edited, finally]

Iskandar Reza · July 11, 2001, 12:36

i obsoleted my worms off the list. then i couldn't train them anymore after that, until i changed to green and captured another one.

i wonder if anyone else has had the same experience.

Fitz · July 11, 2001, 13:43

How the hell did you obsolete one off your list? They aren't in the Design Workshop, and when you right click on them the obselete option doesn't appear.

Mindworms are Explore. Set your govorners to Build/Conquer, and they will make more facilities and conventional units. Also, try turning off contruct naval units, and contruct air units. If you really want to, just contruct a garrison former manually, then turn off the ability to build any units. And never turn on the 'automate unit after construction command'. That way, if you don't like what it built, you can go into the base when the unit appears, change the priority to change what it is producing, and disband those pesky mindworms for half their minerals back.

Personally, I occassionally follow your strat. You just have to tweak the AI gov a bit.

RedFred · July 11, 2001, 15:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Fitz
...and disband those pesky mindworms for half their minerals back...

NO FAIR!!!

I don't get anything for disbanding my natives.

death_head · July 11, 2001, 16:10

Question: Why exactly are you against the production of mindworms? Unless you are the Morganites or Domai, they are a pretty useful unit in my opinion. Just wondering.

Earwicker · July 12, 2001, 10:34

Quote:

Originally posted by death_head
Question: Why exactly are you against the production of mindworms? Unless you are the Morganites or Domai, they are a pretty useful unit in my opinion. Just wondering.

In these situations, I don't think they give the bang-for-the-buck, mineral-wise, that an ordinary military unit would give. They are limited in that they can't be upgraded to something more powerful later in the game. For a green faction, go capture some. If running FM they aren't nearly as effective. The Governor doesn't seem to remember that your FM economy is creating a -30% attack on these expensive units it's building.

Also, native life are most effective in upper life cycles. A base on Governor probably won't have the bio lab, centauri preserve, brood pit, etc. that it takes to make these units as tough as possible. Don't get me wrong: I love mindworms, but I usually am the Gaians or Cult. I can get the freebies. I build the Xeno Dome and Pholus Mutagen and can build boils at a minimum. And if the base is next to a monolith (or a fungus field, or The Ruins), then by all means set it yourself to produce lots of worms. But even a green 1-4-1 garrison is going to hold up to attack better than a hatchling MW.

death_head · July 12, 2001, 10:46

I guess I was forgetting about the 3-2 advantage the attacker has in psi combat...makes all the difference in the world. I agree that if possible, it's better to capture some worms instead, but I am not a big fan of Deidre or the Cult, so I'll stick with building.

Vytae · July 12, 2001, 23:00

90% of the time im the Morganites =o i am a total builder and i like creating neat,orderly aesthetic and severaly functional and efficent empires. Fungus blooms intterupt that,mindworms come when Fungus blooms do,intterupting my order. Its a knee jerk reaction,i cant stand mindworms or any native unit not to mention when running Fm they suck =o

After putting so much time and mircomanagment into a boreholecluster i go nuts when a bloom pops up in the middle.

RedFred · July 13, 2001, 02:17

Green is a more natural SE for Morgan than practically anyone else. You can still get the highly-prized +2 economy (+1 energy per worked tile) with Wealth added in. FM is slightly better for your economy but the PIA is much higher, especially if a vendetta or three are in progress.

Earwicker · July 13, 2001, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytae
90% of the time im the Morganites =o i am a total builder and i like creating neat,orderly aesthetic and severaly functional and efficent empires. Fungus blooms intterupt that,mindworms come when Fungus blooms do,intterupting my order. Its a knee jerk reaction,i cant stand mindworms or any native unit not to mention when running Fm they suck =o

One of the best things about native life is that they have no support cost when sitting on a fungus tile. A good instrustry can crank out a few to guard formers and crawlers from other native life. Even as a FM Morgan, it's a good idea to keep some around (parked on a rocky fungus tile) to move in and knock out the pop-worms -- but better have a chaos battery around to soften up the stack a little bit . . .

RedFred, I thought Morgan couldn't run Green (the anit-Deirdre)? If not, what is his restricted SE choice? Power?

death_head · July 13, 2001, 10:26

He can't...

Personally, I've never understood why anybody would be against Knowledge, power, or wealth...the three tend to be man's goals...I also think that religion should be a choice...for the Cult and the Believers.

Fitz · July 13, 2001, 12:29

*makes a mental note to check that he is actually getting half the minerals back from disbanding native life*

You could be right RedFred.

Morgan's aversion is Planned. Dierde is FreeMarket. So Deirde is very very anti morgan in the usual settings. Morgan is just slightly anti dierdre.

And as far as Morgan running Wealth vs Free Market, it really depends on if you want a poor planet/police rating and a slight bonus to commerce, or a poor morale & a bonus to industry.

Usually I pick Free Market, but that's because I want very good defenses, and to make a good offesive army, all I have to do is designate a few punishment sphere bases with good minerals as the home.

I hate wealth, but that's just me. I fully understand that most people swear by it, but throwing away units due to a low morale rating (which is what happens to me a lot if I have it) sucks IMO. I only use it pre-morale enhancing facilities, and when completely at peace. If you use if after morale enhancing facilities, EVERY unit that pops out of a base with one permenanly loses 2 morale levels. (makes a metal note to check up on that statemnt too

)

RedFred · July 13, 2001, 14:34

Fitz, I agree that the wimpy units you get when running Wealth with Morgan are a pain. But Green SE removes much of the problem on account of the free native army. But the Command Nexus SP is also suddenly much more important when you run Green and Wealth.

I have tested disbanding natives within a city and I get squat. Seems odd since you get minerals for other units and you get cash for planet pearls from hostile mws. But because of the variations in the way the game runs on different PCs I cannot conclusively say what happens on your machine.

Black Sunrise · August 2, 2001, 21:15

Quote:

I don't get anything for disbanding my natives.

Wrong, you don't get anything from disbanding -captured- natives.
That's why the AI keeps track of how many minerals it cost you to build a unit, so you can't catch/disband hordes of mindworms to rush build things.
Pity, I cant find any use for the spore launchers, and I thought that'd be a good one.
Indra

cbn · August 3, 2001, 11:32

Spore launchers-- don't really like them but have found a couple of uses. Disband them into the wild in a position to bombard your enemies. OR disband them in the wild to kill them for the cash (not certain if you might not just recapture the thing). Never done this but could you not give them away to a pact mate for better diplomatic relations as well??

Xerxes2 · August 3, 2001, 14:01

Well, but just a durn minit here. The mw's you catch are INDEPENDANT. Thus you can't cash them in. If you take one to a base and re-home it THEN cash it in don't you get paid?

Black Sunrise · August 3, 2001, 14:57

You can cash in independant units.
But you get half the number of minerals a unit cost you.
And free mindworms cost you nothing.
Indra

Earwicker · August 3, 2001, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Sunrise
You can cash in independant units.
But you get half the number of minerals a unit cost you.
And free mindworms cost you nothing.
Indra

Now I've never noticed the "no minerals for cashed in natives" thing that you describe. I do occasionally disband them in a base if I capture a ton late in the game -- but recall that I did get minerals. Must try it out at home.

Whether it is independent or supported by a base ought not to make a difference, should it?

Captured spore launchers are okay for supporting your worm-hunters out in the field: use the launchers to comb the fungus, drumming up business and leaving worms and humans for the killing. Also, the 'launcher can soften up the wild worms a little bit (because you probably didn't think to bring along an artillery unit). They can also capture wilds and not be attacked by anything other than wild 'launchers (which will go after them with a vengeance).