OCC fortnigth #12 - discussion and logs

Paul · June 26, 2000, 10:42

As Tom already posted in his other thread, you start in fundamentalism and cannot switch governments. One problem is that when you discover an advance that allows a government you will be given the option to switch governments. For the purpose of this scenario you should say no in that case.

Download here.

June 26, 2000, 13:08

Well, I already played it. It's interesting to play in Fundamentalism.

One question: would it be good to set a luxury rate to increase the city's growth? I mean in this case...

Smash · June 26, 2000, 15:44

I think so since a Fundy celebrating collects resources as if it were a Republic.

tonic · June 26, 2000, 17:34

Downloaded. Hope to recover the concentration lost in OCC11. Something new again - must re-read that thread about Fundy being a viable alternative science govt.

Scouse Gits · June 27, 2000, 00:17

I'm in - should finish OCC#10 in a day or so than I'll dive into this one...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited June 28, 2000).]

vik · June 27, 2000, 07:54

Tom,

Thanks for the scenario. One question -- Is your intent to have players stay in Fundy all game? Or is there some option we have to switch governments. I think I know the answer.

Fundy all game. Wow. Should be interesting -- that's a nice twist.

You can't spell "fundy" without "fun."

Paul · June 27, 2000, 08:52

vik, as you already thought you are supposed to stay in fundy all game.

vik · June 27, 2000, 09:20

One more question.

I'm about to play, and I read the intro.

Are we REQUIRED to allocate no more than 50% to science output?

I'd appreciate a quick answer. thanks.

Edit: thanks for answering my first question, Paul
[This message has been edited by vik (edited June 27, 2000).]

Paul · June 27, 2000, 09:45

vik, the maximum effective science rate of fundy is 50%. This was added in one of the patches. So you can set your science higher than 50%, but it won't have any effect.

vik · June 27, 2000, 09:49

Wow. I didn't realize this. I'm glad you mentioned it, because I would have tried to put it on 80% science the whole game.

I would have missed out on luxuries or extra taxes. Good thing I asked.

Thanks again!
[This message has been edited by vik (edited June 27, 2000).]

Smash · June 27, 2000, 13:23

I'm having a blast with this.This is one of the best we've had so far.Brilliantly simple change that has presented all new problems.

I have no idea if I'm doing good or bad.I'm doing stuff and building things I don't normally.

Kudos to TD for a neat idea.

Smash · June 28, 2000, 14:25

I made it!Quite a struggle and a "busy" game for OCC.Lots of activity.

The Romans started a SS but stopped building half way thru.Good thing too.I think it was because of war with England.In the end there were only myself,Rome and England.

2 civs were destroyed early but 1(France) never restarted.Perhaps due to Paris falling into Barb control kept dark blue from restarting.In light of Tom's recent discovery,this couldn't have helped.

I also could not celebrate after size 20.So that is where I stayed.Could have built CfC but I didn't think 2 more citizens was worth it given the length of time it would have taken to grow 2 more citizens.

I got ALOT of barb activity.Lost a few caravans to them.

1 very annoying point.

I had a gold caravan heading to Veii.It was demanded and Veii was size 9.The Romans declared war while it was enroute.
I thought"bye bye caravan" as it was in their territory.But they did not kill it.That happens sometimes and I thought "bonus".
They let me march it right next to it's destination and then killed it.I was slightly annoyed.A good 15 turns I marched that camel.But to tease me like that...argh.

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4000-Tehran- 2nd settler joins city
3800-hut-archer-NON
3750-Pottery
3600-contact English-peace-tribute-Burial
3500-hut wandering nomad-not too far away
3300-hut barb horseman
3250-granary-archer survives barb attack>veteran
3200-size 3-contact Zulus-trade Pottery for Alpha-alliance-trade England-Alpha for Myst-alliance
3100-French destroyed by barbs-hope restart is on
2900-size 4
2750-hut-barb horse-destroyed(hut on river)
2600-contact Rome-trade Alpha for Bronze-gift Burial and Pottery-peace
2550-size 5
2500-hut-legion-NON
2400-trade Zulus Myst for Mason-recieve 50-gift Bronze to England-receive 50
2350-hut-Warrior Code-England cancels alliance-all units send home &#@%
2200-England declares war
2150-hut-Horseback Riding
2050-Collosus
1950-Zulus cancel alliance-Things aren’t going to go fast enough for too much gifting yet.-hut-Iron Working-last 3 tech huts the Romans had @#$&
1900-Zulus destroyed by Rome
1750-size 6
1700-"we love the priest"
1650-hut-legion-NON-peace with England-tribute 50-trade Rome Myst for The Wheel-tribute 100
1500-contact Babylon-yes restart on-peace
1450-gift Horseback to Babylon
1350-Writing
1300-barb leader 150
1250-Hanging Gardens-there ya go Xin
1200-trade Rome Writing for Currency-tribute 100-trade England Iron for Code of Laws-tribute 25
1150-size 7-library-grand total of 12 beakers
1050-market-getting alot of barbs so far-gift Laws to Rome-gift Laws,Writing and Currency to Babs-alliance-Writing and Currency to England
950-diplomat
875-diplomat
825-size 8-hut-horseman-tribute-Rome 100-England 50
800-diplomat
725-Trade-diplomat-hut-Construction-disband diplomat
700-gold caravan
650-hides caravan-Babs gift 25-trade Rome Trade for Map Making-gift Map to England-disband horseman
625-coal caravan
575-hut-chariot-NON
550-aquaduct-contact Mongols-tribute 100-hut-legion-NON
525-size 9
500-dye caravan
475-gold caravan killed by barbs #$%&-hut-horseman-NON
450-food camel-hides to London 82 bonus-hut-legion-NON
425-coal arrivves in London 84 bonus
400-Math-gold caravan
375-barb leader 150
350-salt caravan
325-size 10-hut-Monarchy
300-food camel-dye arrives in London 90 bonus-bribe English chariot -112
250-food camel-gold arrives in London 90 bonus
Astronomy-Marco Polo’s Embassy-contact Aztecs-peace-tribute 150-only 5 other civs-blue hasn’t restarted-the AIs are hurtin way worse than me.-disband chariot-bribe Roman chariot -73-
200-caravan-hut-Polytheism-gift all ceptAztecs and Astronomy-share maps with all cept Aztecs
175-trade Aztecs Pottery and Monarchy for Literacy and Republic.-share maps-salt to London 90 bonus
150-gold caravan-hut-Engineering
125-hut-horseman-NON
100-Myst to Aztecs
75-size 11-caravan-disband legion
50-caravan
25-Cope’s-bribe Aztec caravan -115
----------------------------------------------------
AD1-hut 2 barbs-1 destroyed.....-gift Literacy to Babs-receive 75-trade England Literacy for Seafaring-tribute-England 50-Mongols 100-Aztecs 50
20-horseman KIA-caravan-hut-elephant-NON
40-hut-3 barbs 1 destroyed
60-elephant KIA-caravan
100-caravan-bribed dye arrives in Rome 214 bonus-net gain 99.
120-Philosophy-Medicine-size 12-bribes-barb archer 61-legion 82
140-salt caravan-gift Literacy and Republic to Rome-Literacy to England-Philosophy and Republic to Mongols
160-trade Aztecs Seafaring for Banking-bribe Aztecs horsemen-77 and 85
180-caravan
200-gift Philosophy to Aztecs
220-bank
260-caravan
280-trade Babs Republic for Bridge Building-they cancel alliance-ton o units sent home
340-Great Library- what the heck?!- it will give me more control of the game-tribute-England 50-gift Philosophy to Rome-Philosophy and Seafaring to Aztecs-disband horseman
360-caravan
380-bribe english elephant(next to non settler outside city radius) 219
400-Sanitation
420-sewer-bribe barb trireme 82
440-size 13-gold arrives in Veii(demanded)594 bonus
460-gold caravan
480-University
500-caravan
540-build university
560-gift Banking and Sanitation to Rome-tribute-Aztecs 100
580-caravan-bribe english settler 340-barb trieme 82
620-caravan-England declares war
660-caravan
680-Rome declares war
700-size 14-caravan-peace with England-gift Sanitation and Banking-tribute Aztecs 100
720-Gravity-gift University and Bridge Building to Mongols
740-caravan-salt arrives in Rome(demanded) 500 bonus
760-Sir Isaac’s
780-Invention-alliance with Aztecs-receive 75
800-gift Invention to all-also-Engineering to Rome-Sanitation,Seafaring and Banking to Mongols
820-Leo’s Workshop-I have 2 NON settlers and 2 boats so it is worth it.Especially since it takes forever to grow.-hut-barb horseman
860-gold caravan
900-caravan
920-Navigation via Great Library-gift University,Wheel,Sanitation,Navigation,Iron and Bridge to Aztecs
940-Gunpowder-caravan-hut-50 gold
980-size 15-diplomat
1000-gold arrives in York(demanded)162 bonus
1020-caravan
1040-England declares war-tribute-Babylon-150-gift Warrior Code and Math to Aztecs-receive 25
1060-city walls
1080-Chemistry
1100-barracks
1120-bribe English catapult-354
1140-gold caravan
1160-bribe Roman caravan 192
1180-caravan
1200-peace with Rome
1220-caravan
1240-Explosives
1260-size 16-gold arrives in Tlatelolco(demanded)300 bonus-caravan
1300-caravan
1340-Metallurgy-caravan-Rome declares war
1380-caravan-coal arrives in Tenochtitlan 129 bonus
1400-gift Explosives to Aztecs-receive 25
1420-gold caravan-trade England Gunpowder for Feudalism
1440-trade England Engineering for Physics
1460-caravan
1480-Steam Engine-gift Physics to Aztecs
1500-Democracy via Great Library-size 17
1520-caravan
1530-gold arrives in Tlatelolco(demanded)354 bonus
1540-barb leader 150
1550-Railroad
1560-Darwin’s-Magnetism>Electricity-killed 2 of my own wonders in 2 turns-RR to Babs-tribute 100-RR to Aztecs-RR,Navigation and Gunpowder to Mongols-RR to England
1570-gift Sanitation to Aztecs-Physics to Mongols
1580-gold caravan-bribe English musket 314-gift University to Babs
1600-size 18-caravan-ceasefire with Rome-gift Democracy and Engineering to Aztecs
1610-steal Economics from Rome-publicly condemned but no war
1620-caravan
1630-gift Physics,Gunpowder and Steam to Babs-tribute 200-gift Steam to Rome-peace treaty-Steam to Aztecs-receive 25-Steam to England-tribute 50-Steam to Mongols-tribute 125
1640-Refrigeration-stock exchange-gift Magnet and Explosives to Rome-share maps-they declare war when asked for tribute-Explosives to Babs-Magnet and Economics to Aztecs-Magnet to English and Mongols
1650-Rome is slowly conquering the world-Chemistry to Mongols-I cancel alliance with Aztecs
1660-supermarket
1670-bribe Roman caravan 207
1690-gift Explosives to England-trade Aztecs Feudal for Industrialization-tribute 250
1700-size 19-we love cancelled..oops-caravan
1710 -we love the priest-
1720-The Corporation-Romans kill gold caravan @#&%-freight
1740-freight
1750-copper arrives in Ur(demanded)190
1752-freight
1756-gold freight
1758-Steel-size 20
1760-oil freight
1764-freight
1766-diplomat-gold arrives in Tenochtitlan 158 bonus and new route
Routes
Rome+14
Tenochtitlan+13
London+12
1768-diplomat-gift Industrial to England-bribe English cannon 416
1770-diplomat-bribe English Crusader 308-musket 212
1772-Refining-bribe English frigate 382-oil arrives Teno 158 bonus replaces London at +13-198 beakers-only 2 scientists right now.
1774-dye freight-trade Aztecs Electricity for Conscription-tribute 300-bribe English ironclad 462 Veteran!
1776-size 21-we love cancelled..hmm...maybe better off at 20.CfC only give 1 so cant celebrate past 22.
1778-engineer-we love the priest-bribr English engineer 992
1780-barb frigate sinks transport with freight &$#@
1782-freight-reparations gained against barb frigate-6 units destroyed-thats 5 passsengers
1786-Combustion-freight-bribe Aztec engineer 296-gift Indust,Conscript and Economics to Babs-trade England Conscript for Chivalry-tribute 75-gift Chiv,Indust and Conscript to Mongols-share maps
1788-bribe English musket 246-wheat>silk
1790-dye freight
1792-Communism cancels Marco’s(Romans)-sell sewer(for now)
1794-freight-trade Aztecs The Corp for Communism-share maps
1796-The United Nations-peace with Rome-
1798-bribe barb 2 knights@ 82-dye arrives in London(demanded)182 bonus
1800-coal freight
1802-Automobile-bye bye Leo’s.Seemed worth it.
1804-superhighway-a whopping 324 beakers with 2 scientists 6 turns
1806-sell aquaduct-gonna stay size 20.Takes too long to grow now and I will have 80 sheilds if I make it to the point where I need them.Unless I get CfC I can’t celebrate past 20.Can I?
1808-sell granary
1810-factory-steal Electronics fron Aztecs-publicly condemned
1812-Hoover Dam-why not?keep it away from the AI
1814-Refining-dye freight-coal arrives in Teno(demanded)835 bonus and new route.All 3 routes(+27)with Teno size 19
1816-silk freight
1818-freight
1820-Leadership-freight
1822-freight
1824-freight
1826-freight-barb leader 150-share maps with Babs
1828-freight-trade Babs Electronics for Mono-steal Tactics from Rome-publicly condemned-silk arrives in Teno 346 bonus
1830-coal freight
1832-Machine Tools-dye to Teno 346 bonus-ski troop
1834-silk freight-
1836-freight-barb leader 150
1838-freight-gift Tactics to Aztecs
1840-bribe barb knight 82
1842-Miniaturization
1844-barb frigate kills vet destroyer,transport and 2 freights-ouch-freight
1846-freight-gift Tactics to Babs-tribute 400-Tactics to Mongols-tribute 250
1848-freight
1850-freight
1852-Computers
1853-research lab-bribe barb dragoon 102 frigate 102
1854-coal caravan-barb leader 150
1855-silk freight
1856-Atomic Theory-freight
1857-freight
1858-freight
1859-SETI-preventative-sell research lab
1860-Nuclear Fission-freight
1861-freight-coal arrives in Teno(demanded)970 bonus
1862-Nuclear Power-dye freight-silk arrives in Teno 388 bonus
1863-coal freight
1864-freight
1865-freight
1866-The Laser-freight
1867-freight
1868-freight
1869-freight
1870-freight
1871-Flight-freight-coal arrives in Teno 457 bonus dye 183
1872-coal caravan-bribe 2 barb dragoons @102
1873-silk freight
1874-freight
1875-Radio-freight
1877-airport
1878-freight-coal arrives in Teno(demanded) 452 bonus
1879-dye freight
1880-Advanced Flight-freight-bribe Roman freight 380-silk arrives in Teno 181 bonus
1881-coal freight
1882-freight-bribe Roman freight 387-
1883-copper arrives in Teno 185-dye 185
1884-Rocketry-silk freight
1885-freight
1886-freight
1887-bribe Roman Freight 390-silk arrives in Tlatelco(demanded)408-cloth to Teno 185
1888-Space Flight-SAM
1889-Apollo
1890-gems arrive in Teno(demanded)554 bonus coal(demanded)462
1891-Plastics
1892-bribe English engineer 902
1896-bribe English engineer 819
1898-Superconductor
1899-Romans are getting techs every turn in Monarchy.Catching up fast.Typical
1900-Aztecs declare war
1901-peace with Aztecs
1904-15 structurals ready
1905-Fusion Power-bribe Roman freight 408
1907-Rome builds 13 structurals-bribe English rifleman 407-oil to Tlatelolco(demanded)539 bonus
1908-Rome builds 17 more structurals-bribe English ski troop 840
1910-Mobile Warfare-6 components-Babs and Mongols destroyed.
1913-3 modules launch
various defenses and units.

Rome stopped building at 30 structurals and 2 components
1928-ARRIVAL AC

Wonders
Collosus-2050bc
Hanging Gardens-1250bc
Marco Polo-250bc
Cope’s-25bc
Great Library-340ad
Sir Isaac-76-ad
Leonardo-840ad
Darwin’s-1560
UN-1796
Apollo-1889

Trade
1st-450bc
2nd-425bc
3rd-300bc

Trade-725bc
Construction-725bc
Sanitation-400ad
Refrigeration-1640ad
Automobile-1802ad
Computers-1852ad
Space Flight-1888ad

Paul · July 1, 2000, 10:22

Well, it took some time but I finally finished this game. Unfortunately the Romans and English both arrived at AC one year before I did. I landed in 1935. In my game the Aztecs were wiped out early and never restarted. In the end only the English and Romans survived the game. The Zulus, French and Mongols all got killed in the modern age.

4000 BC Persepolis
3600 BC Bronze Working
3500 BC Hut: Barbarians
3150 BC Alphabet
Hut: Ceremonial Burial
2450 BC Writing
2000 BC Colossus
1950 BC English: trade Currency, Mysticism; peace; tribute 100 gold
1700 BC Library
1650 BC Code of Laws
1500 BC Marketplace
1400 BC Temple
1200 BC Diplomat
1100 BC Hut: Horsemen
1050 BC Trade
English: trade Construction, Masonry; tribute 100 gold
1000 BC Build Dye Caravan
950 BC Build Hides Caravan
Zulus: trade Map Making, Pottery, Warrior Code; share maps; peace
English: alliance; share maps; gift 50 gold
900 BC Build Gold Caravan
Hut: Seafaring
850 BC Build Hides Caravan
800 BC Build Hides Caravan
Dye to London (demanded): 112 gold
Hut: Horseback Riding
775 BC Hides to London (not demanded): 56 gold
Hut: Horsemen
750 BC Granary
700 BC Build Salt Caravan
Mathematics
Start WLTHPD
650 BC Build Copper Caravan
600 BC Colosseum
Hides to London (not demanded): 70 gold
575 BC Barb Leader: 150 gold
Hut: Barbarians
525 BC Zulus: war
English: cancel alliance
475 BC Copper to London (not demanded): 76 gold
450 BC Hides to Zimbabwe (not demanded): 112 gold
Hut: Legion
English: share maps; alliance
425 BC Astronomy
400 BC Dye Caravan
350 BC Aqueduct
250 BC Hut: Legion
175 BC Copernicus' Observatory
150 BC English: trade Literacy; gift 50 gold
125 BC Build Gold Caravan
100 BC Barb Leader: 150 gold
75 BC Philosophy, Medicine
Explorer
50 BC Salt to Hastings (demanded): 152 gold
25 BC Explorer
Hut: Barbarians
1 AD Dye to York (demanded): 168 gold
40 AD English: share maps
60 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
80 AD University
Hut: Iron Working
Gold to London (not demanded): 100 gold
Zulus: cease fire
Mongols: peace; share maps
120 AD Zulus: trade Bridge Building; peace; share maps
140 AD University
160 AD Romans: share maps; alliance; gift 200 gold
180 AD Diplomat
220 AD Build Salt Caravan
Hut: Theory of Gravity
240 AD Hut: Legion
260 AD Hut: Polytheism
Zulus: war
English: trade Republic; gift 50 gold
300 AD Wheel
320 AD French: peace; share maps
Mongols: war
400 AD Romans: gift 75 gold
440 AD Hut: Barbarians
460 AD Hut: Monarchy
520 AD Isaac Newton's College
Engineering
660 AD Sanitation
680 AD Sewer System
720 AD Mongols: cease fire
English: trade Banking, Navigation; gift 200 gold
740 AD Romans: gift 75 gold
Zulus: cease fire
Mongols: peace
760 AD Bank
780 AD English: gift 200 gold
Romans: gift 100 gold
800 AD Economics
820 AD Stock Exchange
Salt to Rome (demanded): 274 gold
880 AD Build Gold Caravan
900 AD Invention
940 AD Build Coal Caravan
960 AD English: trade Chemistry; gift 100 gold
Romans: trade Physics; gift 50 gold
980 AD Build Dye Caravan
1020 AD Leonardo's Workshop
English: gift 100 gold
French: war
1040 AD Gunpowder
Coal to Hatings (demanded): 142 gold
1060 AD Zulus: war
French: cease fire
1080 AD English: 300 gold for war with Mongols
1100 AD Build Coal Caravan
1120 AD Romans: cancel alliance
1180 AD Explosives
1200 AD English: cancel alliance
1220 AD Coal to Hastings (demanded): 142 gold
1300 AD Magnetism
Bribe English Settler for 692 gold
1420 AD Metallurgy
Gold to Ravenna (demanded): 384 gold
Bribe English Settler
1440 AD Build Gold Caravan
1500 AD Build Dye Caravan
Electricity
1520 AD Build Coal Caravan
1570 AD Refrigeration
1580 AD Supermarket
Coal to Hastings (demanded): 172 gold
1610 AD English build Darwin's Voyage
1620 AD Build Gold Caravan
English: trade Railroad
Romans: alliance; gift 250 gold
1630 AD Steam Engine
English: trade Industrialization
1640 AD Build Dye Caravan
1660 AD Build Coal Caravan
1710 AD Corporation
Coal Freight to Hastings (demanded): 182 gold
1756 AD Steel
Build Oil Freight
End WLTHPD (size 21)
Romans: trade Democracy, Monotheism; gift 200 gold
English: trade Chivalry, Feudalism, Leadership; war
1760 AD Factory
1764 AD Cathedral
1766 AD Zulus: peace; trade Atomic Theory
1768 AD Gold Freight to Ravenna (demanded): 312 gold
1770 AD Dye Freight to Rome (demanded): 310 gold
1782 AD Refining
French: peace
English: war
Oil Freight to Paris (not demanded): 67 gold
1788 AD Power Plant
1796 AD Romans: gift 150 gold
1802 AD Steal Conscription from English
1804 AD City Walls
1814 AD Genetic Engineering
1816 AD Cure for Cancer
Start WLTHPD
1820 AD Zulus: tribute 200 gold
Romans: gift 75 gold
1824 AD Build Wine Freight
Gold Freight to Ravenna (demanded): 428 gold
1826 AD Romans: trade Electronics
1828 AD Cloth Freight to Rome (not demanded): 191 gold
Sold Power Plant
1830 AD Hydro Plant
1832 AD Build Gold Freight
Bribe English Engineer for 1016 gold
1834 AD Build Oil Freight
Combustion
Bribe two more English Engineers
1842 AD English: tribute Automobile
1844 AD Superhighways
1846 AD Mass Production
French: tribute 350 gold
Romans: trade Tactics
1848 AD Mass Transit
1853 AD English: trade Flight
1854 AD Machine Tools
1855 AD Wine Freight to Pompeii (demanded): 360 gold
1856 AD Gold Freight to Rome (demanded): 600 gold
1860 AD Romans: trade Mobile Warfare
1861 AD Miniaturization
Oil Freight to Rome (demanded): 700 gold
1862 AD Build Gold Freight
1863 AD English: trade Nuclear Fission
Mongols: war
1865 AD Barracks
1871 AD Computers
1872 AD Research Lab
1875 AD Romans: trade Communism
1876 AD United Nations
1877 AD Zulus: tribute 550 gold
Mongols: peace
1880 AD Radio
Gold Freight to Rome (demanded): 600 gold
1882 AD Airport
1883 AD Build Oil Freight
1888 AD Advanced Flight
1889 AD Zulus: trade Robotics
Romans: trade Guerilla Warfare
1890 AD Manufacturing Plant
Oil Freight to Rome (demanded): 965 gold
1891 AD Rocketry
1895 AD Space Flight
1896 AD Apollo Program
1897 AD Romans: cancel alliance
1900 AD Plastics
1902 AD Romans: trade Nuclear Power
1905 AD Laser
1910 AD Superconductor
1915 AD Fusion Power
1920 AD Labor Union
Launch
1934 AD Romans, English spaceships land
1935 AD Arrival at Alpha Centauri

Oldman · July 3, 2000, 04:40

Ha ha!!!!

I'm back people, i can't believe i'm 2 occ's behind!?!? so, whats been going on while i've been away?

vik · July 5, 2000, 16:50

A very draining scenario. I can’t post the highlights right now because I don’t have much time. I think I started out pretty good, but made some bad choices in the middle and endgames. Very lucky early on with huts. Thanks for the scenario, Tom!

4000bc-wow. Nice city location. I’ll need it in fundy. Wow, a fanatic unit. Should be no worries from hut-barbs wiping out this guy! I note that I am set at 50% science. After inquiring about whether I am allowed to adjust this, I decided to leave it where it is (thanks for the advice, Paul!). Also noted that I have discovered nothing. This will be a hard (but in a fun way) game. Hmm, priorities. I think I will start with a size-2 city with both settlers.
Tehran founded. Building warriors.
3950bc- researching Pottery (as per Xin Yu’s advice). I’ll have to whip out the old OCC guide and figure out what my next priority is (since it isn’t Monarchy).
3850bc- hut, horsemen(supported)
3800bc- Pottery discovered, researching alphabet (have been working the grapes and the gold), hut, 50gold
3750bc- warriors built, building granary
3400bc- Alphabet discovered, researching Writing; hut, 50gold
3250bc- hut, bronze working
3100bc- hut, archers
3000bc- meet english, peace, no alliance; meet french, peace, no alliance, acquire currency
2900bc- hut, barbarians
2850bc- barbarian horsemen die a horrible death at the hands of my fanatic
2800bc- hut, wondering nomads – they are about 20 squares away from Tehran, though
2700bc- hut, archers; hut, horsemen
2450bc- hut, 100 gold!
2400bc- discover writing, researching map-making; switch production to library; meet with english and gain alliance and 25 gold; hut-barbarians (kilt’em); hut, horsemen
2350bc- library built, building marketplace; hut, horsemen
2300bc- hut, horsemen (wow!)
2200bc- hut, barbarians; another horsemen bites the dust against my fanatic unit; hut, chariot; meet Romans, peace, no alliance
2150bc- hut, archers. Dang, I forgot to buy the marketplace!
2100bc- marketplace built, building granary; hut, horseback riding; gain alliance with French and 50gold
2050bc- meet aztecs; peace, no alliance; gain map-making; share maps with all
2000bc- granary built, building colossus; researching code of laws; trade english for code of laws and mysticism; switch production to high-food; hut, seafaring; hut, trade! I start building caravans instead
1950bc- researching literacy; get masonry from aztecs and 25gold from english
1900bc- get 25gold from english
1800bc- hut, 50gold; hut, 50gold
1750bc- hut, literacy
1700bc- researching philosophy; meet zulus, peace, no alliance, shared maps
1550bc- hut, mathematics
1500bc- hut, barbarians (kilt’em); shared maps with all; 25gold from french; hut, legion
1150bc- 50gold from french, 25gold from english
1000bc- meet Mongols; peace, no alliance, share maps
975bc- hut, legion
950bc- hut, 50gold; hut, barbarians (next turn they kilt me horseys!)
900bc- get construction from the aztecs
750bc- colossus built; building aqueduct
675bc- Salt caravan to Rome (demanded) 204 gold; alliance with aztecs and 150gold
650bc- philosophy and university discovered, researching astronomy; celebrating weluv; aqueduct built
600bc- university built, building caravans
575bc- Hides caravan to Rome (un-demanded) 168gold
400bc- Astronomy discovered; researching Theory of Gravity; Dye caravan to Rome (demanded) 364gold
275bc- Copernicus’ Observatory built, building caravans
250bc- Theory of Gravity discovered; researching Medicine; 250 gold from my allies
175bc- 125gold from allies
50bc- Isaac Newton’s College built; building caravans
25bc- medicine discovered; researching engineering; 250 from allies
40ad- diplomat built; back to building caravans
120ad- engineering discovered; researching sanitation
160ad- I dump all my knowledge off. Here’s what I get in return: Ceremonial burial, Bridge Building, Republic, Iron Working, and 500 gold; shared maps with all. It was very hard to bite my tongue and say, “No, Fundamentalism is working out just fine…”
180ad- built the Great Library (what the hell), building caravans
200ad- pop-12 (approximately)
260ad- sanitation discovered; researching invention
400ad- invention discovered; researching gunpowder; sewer system built; building caravans
440ad- acquire Monarchy from the Great Library
460ad- 250gold from english; 50 from aztecs
540ad- gunpowder discovered; researching metallurgy
600ad- King Richard’s Crusade built (why not?); building colosseum
640ad- colosseum built; building temple
660ad- temple built; building caravans; 450 in tribute/gifts
680ad- metallurgy discovered; researching chemistry
780ad- 200 gold from english
800ad- trade romans for chemistry; 150gold in tribute
820ad- researching explosives
840ad- explosives discovered; researching navigation
1000ad- navigation discovered; researching physics
1040ad- Leonardo’s Workshop built (I can afford it); building caravans
1080ad- 200gold from aztecs
1100ad- 150gold from english
1120ad- acquire banking from Great Library
1160ad- Physics discovered; researching magnetism; bank built, building caravans
1320ad- magnetism discovered; researching electricity
1400ad- through Leonardo’s and 4 bribes (for about 300 gold each), I now have 5 engineers working for me. I will transform most of the river squares into hills and try to maximize shields. This will hopefully, no, definitely (since it’s a scenario) allow me to skip researching robotics.
1420ad- make that 6 engineers (all NON) – I just spent 232 gold to get another one. 200gold from english
1460ad- electricity discovered; researching refrigeration
1550ad- refrigeration discovered; researching steam engine
1560ad- supermarket built; building caravans
1620ad- get 200gold gift from english, 250gold gift and economics via trade from aztecs, 150gold gift from french, 200gold tribute from romans, 100gold tribute from zulus, 150gold tribute from mongols
1630ad- pop=16; steam engine discovered; researching railroad
1660ad- it’s hard to tell how many more grasslands I need to transform into hills with King Richard’s Crusade still active.
1710ad- stock exchange built, building caravans; railroad discovered, researching industrialization
1756ad- 150gold from english
1758ad- industrialization discovered, researching steel; King Richard’s crusade is cancelled – now I can tell more easily if I need to convert another grassland into a hill.
1772ad- steel discovered; researching corporation
1788ad- corporation discovered; researching refining; 100gold from english
1790ad- pop=21; even at 80% luxuries, I still can’t maintain the WeLuv, so maybe I need to build Michaelangelo’s or J.S. Bach’s.
1806ad- refining discovered; researching combustion; big knowledge dump onto the AI’s. Did not give any of them refining, though (a pre-pre-req for flight); 150gold from Mongols; 50gold from english; 50gold from aztecs; 200gold from french; 100gold from zulus; 75gold from Romans; shared maps with all
1828ad- wool caravan to london (demanded) 134gold
1834ad- trade for conscription with Romans; trade for Polytheism with Zulus
1836ad- automobile discovered; researching electronics; factory built; building superhighways
1838ad- superhighways built; building power plant
1840ad- powerplant built; 80 shields with 3 mined wine, 1 mined coal, 4 mined hills, and the rest grasslands; building city walls; I guess I can change that coal back to buffalo and still get 80 shields. I mis-counted. I think I will and get the food bonus
1842ad- city walls built; building caravans
1846ad- electronics discovered; researching mass production
1850ad- coal to Nottingham (demanded) 430gold
1851ad- trade romans for fuedalism
1852ad- mass production discovered; researching chivalry. I can’t believe no AI has discovered this yet; coal caravan to nottingham (demanded) 430gold
1855ad- Darwin’s voyage built; discover chivalry and leadership; researching tactics; building freights; wool to london (demanded) 272 gold
1859ad- tactics discovered; researching machine tools
1865ad- mass transit built; building hydro plant (it was there), machine tools discovered; researching miniaturization
1866ad- hydro plant built; sold power plant; building freights
1868ad- gold to nottingham (non-demanded) 143gold
1870ad- miniaturization discovered; researching computers
1876ad- discover computers; researching flight; just for the heck of it, I slid my luxuries bar to 80% and saw that half my population was happy. Even at 20% I can celebrate. I wonder for how long I have been able to do this, and how much science I lost as a result
1877ad- research lab built; building freights; celebrating WeLuv
1878ad- for the heck of it, Hoover’s Dam built; building caravans; hydro plant sold
1880ad- flight discovered; researching radio
1883ad- copper caravan to York (demanded); around 272 gold; Gold to nottingham (non-demanded) 132 gold
1884ad- radio discovered; researching advanced flight; pop-27; We-Luv cancelled. Same thing as before – even 80% luxuries won’t achieve it. I suppose if I have an odd-number population in my city, I can’t celebrate, but with an even number, I can. Strange.
Oil to nottingham (demanded) 342gold
1885ad- wine to nottingham (demanded) 247gold; copper to Warwick (demanded) 144gold
1888ad- advanced flight discovered; researching rocketry
1890ad- trade romans for communism. Once again, I lie when I say “No, fundamentalism is working out okay.”
1891ad- united nations built
1892ad- seti program built; sold research lab
1893ad- built sun tzu’s war academy, building freights. I still have around 14k gold. Am I wrong?
1894ad- rocketry discovered; researching space flight; dye to samarkand (demanded) 274gold; copper to london (demanded) 142gold
1896ad- stole genetic engineering from the english. They cancel alliance. I should have been stealing more techs more often
1897ad- cure for cancer built; well whaddayaknow? WeLuv commences again.
1898ad- stole atomic theory from the english
1899ad- space flight discovered; researching plastics
1900ad- apollo program built; building SS structurals
1904ad- population is 28, with 5 extra food.
1905ad- discover plastics; researching nuclear fission
1910ad- discover nuclear fission; researching nuclear power
1911ad- my ship consists of 5 structurals and 6 components
1912 ad- english offer alliance to rid the world of the Romans. I take it.
1915ad- nuclear power discovered; researching the Laser
1920ad- laser discovered; researching superconductor
1921ad- 15 stucturals, 6 components, waiting on superconductor to be discovered; building freights
1922ad- french destroyed by aztecs; copper to York (demanded) 182gold
1924ad- superconductor discovered; researching fusion power
1927ad- dump all my knowledge in an attempt to lower the research rate. I give away everything but space flight, to include superconductor and plastics. The effect this has on my research rate is negligible.
1930ad- fusion power discovered; researching polytheism. Launch. ETA is 1945
1936ad- polytheism discovered; researching monotheism
1941ad- trade for monotheism, researching theology
1943ad theology discovered; researching espionage
1944ad- J.S. Bach’s cathedral built.
1945ad- arrive AC. Khomeini the Clever, 452 points, civ rating: 58%; my highest score of any fortnight

_________________
Edit:

Well, here are my highlights and additional comments on the game. You may have noticed that I built a library, a marketplace, a granary, and 7 caravans before I built the colossus. I'm not sure if this was wise or not, but I didn't feel too far behind, and at least I got some early trade routes.

I'll be interested in seeing the table for easy comparison. I think I was doing great until the middle ages. Then I just seemed to go really slow. I mean, even though I discovered Space Flight in 1899ad, I couldn’t launch my ship until 1930ad because I was waiting around for Superconductor, and later, Fusion Power. Slowed me up a bit. Oh well.

Highlights: 4000bc-1945ad (version 2.4.2)

Colossus: 750bc
Copernicus: 275bc
Shakespeares: (never)
Isaac Newtons: 50bc
Darwins: 1855ad
Apollo: 1900ad
------------
Along the way, I also built the following wonders:

Great Library 180ad
King Richard’s: 600ad
Leonardo’s: 1040ad
Hoover’s Dam: 1878ad
United Nations: 1891ad
SETI Program: 1892ad
Sun Tzu’s War Academy: 1893ad
Cure for Cancer: 1897ad
J.S. Bach’s: 1944ad
Manhatten Project: (1945ad)

1st Trade Route: 675bc
2nd Trade Route: 575bc
3rd Trade Route: 400bc

Trade: 2000bc
Construction: 900bc (via trade)
Sanitation: 260ad
Refrigeration: 1550ad
Automobile: 1836ad
Computers: 1876ad
Space Flight: 1899ad

Size 12: 200ad
Size 21: 1790ad

Monarchy established: (never)
Republic established: (never)
Democracy established: (never – never even discovered this one)

[This message has been edited by vik (edited July 08, 2000).]

tonic · July 8, 2000, 02:17

I think Tom has invented a tough variant, FOCC, with its science handicap. With the other Fundy pluses I did not realize until too late that there can be too much of a good thing in terms of caravans/freight despite what is said in conventional OCC. Should have developed Leo's among other Wonders in the mid-game. It is in trying to get rid of the burgeoning stock of caravans/freight that I grabbed what I could late in the game. Besides the essential United Nations (in this context) I also got the only two available viz. SETI (didn't seem to slow down the other civs' science rate) and the Manhattan Project, which was really my undoing, RIP 1916. In any case it is obvious with my tech rate of some 13 turns, that I wasn't going to outrace the English, French or Romans to AC.

I guess staying at size 20 to maintain the WLTKD science bonus was shortsighted - I seem to have lost ground from the mid-game onwards. Despite the relative length and the disappointing finish, there were some interesting twists and insights into Fundy's quirks - having all that money and the ability to bribe units with ease, resulting in the build-up of a modest navy (well, mainly ferry-boats) for a land-locked city!

Hats off to Smash and vik who successfully steered the course.

The log up till 1916:

2.42 Deity

BC
4000 Persepolis
3950 resBronzeworking
3550 hut=50
3500 Bronze Working resAlphabet
3400 hut=barb
3450 barbhorse kilt my warrior
3350 hut=50
3300 hut=chariot
3250 English peace, refused alliance tirbute=get ceremonial burial - (chariot sth London)
3150 hut=50
3050 English=no tribute
2950 English=bronzew
2900 pop4 hut=barb
2850 Barbhorse dies attacking myfanatic
2800 English=nomaps
2750 English=no alliance
2700 hut=warriorcode English=refuse knowledge
2650 English tribute=25
2600 English=no alliance
2450 Hut=currency English=give currency get mysticism
2400 Largest: 1English 2Persians
2350 Colossus English=tribute50 tls=5.0.5 income=7 sc=3bkers turns=24 -> inc9 sc=16t with mined gold
2300 English=no alliance
2250 hut=legion
2200 French exc currency ceremburial pottery for Alphabet writing mysticism no alliance tribute=50 English=no alliance
2150 Marketplace,Zulus exc ceremburial for horsebackriding no alliance tribute=50, mywarrior on mtn vetted after surviving Barbarcher attack,
2000 Library
1950 hut=wheel Mongols destroyed by Romans hut=horse
1900 Zulus exc writing for CodeLaws no alliance French=no alliance
1850 Zulus=wheel French=codelaws English=writing WLTKD started (late!!)
1800 Zulus=warriorcode French+English=wheel
1750 Barbleader=150 hut=50 Zulus=pottery French=warriorcode English=codelaws
1700 hut=trade Zulus=currency Eng+French=horsebackr
1650 hut=chariot 1st Caravan blt =dye resMsaonry hut=50 Zulus proposes alliance, no gift fr+engr=trade
1600 Zulus=trade French=no alliance
1550 hut=construction Romans exc trade ceremburial mysticism for masonry mapmaking ironworking peace tribute=150 hut=legion Zulus (war aztecs)+English=mapmaking
1500 resMaths Romans+zulu+French=construction English=exc construction for Literacy
1450 Romans+zulus=sharemaps eng+French=nomaps hut=monarchy
1400 Aztecs destroyed by Zulus Romans+French=literacy Zulus exc monarcgy for republic=0 English=republic hut=legion
1350 Romans+French=republic Zulus=literacy English=ironwork hut=maths hut=barb mychariot kilt barbhorse hut=horse
1300 resAstronomy Romans=monarchy Zulus=ironwork French=mapmaking English=maths
1250 1st Caravan dye -London (demanded) =132 Romans= wheel Zulus=25 English=maps French=nomaps
1200 2nd Caravan hides -London (not demanded) =66 hut=25 Rom+Zulus=maths fr+English=monarchy
1150 Romans= currency Zulus=maps fr+English=masonry (English seems to have all knowledge) hut=barb mychariot kilt barbhorse
1100 Romans= horsebackr Zulus=masonry French=ironwork English=nomaps
1050 3rd Caravan gold -London (not demanded)=70 Romans= 25 tribute Zulus=25 French=maths English=no alliance hut=50
1000 Astronomy resPhilosophy Romans= codeL Zulus=maps French=nomaps English=nomaps
975 Romans Zulus=maps French=noalliance English=nomaps
950 English=75 tribute French=150 tribute
925 Fr+Eng+Zulus=astronomy Romans= maps
900 Copernicus English=nomaps
875 Rome=50 Zulus=50 fr+English=noalliance
825 Fr+English no alliance (only if give 100) Zulus=maps
800 BarbLeader=150
775 hides caravan -Orleans (not demanded)=86 sc:20t=>16t
750 Zulus war French
675 Salt caravan -London (not demanded)=72
650 Philosophy get University resTheoryGrav, Granary Rome=maps eng+French=noalliance
625 Pop8 University (sc=12t) Zulus=phil+25 Romans= Phil+Univ for alliance but no gift! French=phil noalliance without war with zulus, English=phil
600 Zulus=univ sharemaps, Romans= maps
575 English=75 Romans= 0 French=50 Zulus=maps
550 Aquaduct
500 Zulus war with English (decline 50 for war as wine-Caravan going to York (demanded): worshipful->uncooperative allies) Romans= maps
400 English exc Univ for Banking, no alliance
375 Romans=50
350 TheoryGravity resMedicine Wine Caravan -York (demanded)=200 Zulus=banking (demanded)+50 (but still uncooperative) French=Univ+Banking for alliance, but no gift! Happiest: Romans Zulus French Persians English
325 Zulus=ThGrav (attitude: uncoop->neutral)
300 IsaacNewtonsC (sc=8t) French=banking Romans= 25
275 Pop10 French=thGrav (sc=7t)
250 Rom+French=maps
225 Medicine resEngineering English=Med, maps Zulus=Med+50 Romans= univ French=med
200 Bank
175 Romans= 50 English=50 French=0
125 Rom+French=Maps English=nomaps
100 (Romans dev seafaring)
75 (French war Eng, French dev Engineering!) get Engineering as gift from French
50 (French Peace with English)
25 Sanitation resEconomics Dye Caravan -London (not demanded)=106 Romans exc sanitation for seafaring +50 French=75 English=seafaring

AD1 Rom+French=maps English=noalliance
20 Sewer System English=engineering French=sanitation (sc: 8t->7t !) Romans= astronomy
40 Romans= engineering+0, French=maps English=sanitation+0
60 Pop12 Romans= med English=ThGravity
80 (Zulus peace with Eng) Zulus=med+100 Romans= 0
100 Economics resBridgeBdg Zulus=sanitation French=economics(8t->7t) English=econs
120 Zulus=engineering Romans= 50 French=150
140 English=noalliance fr+Romans =maps Zulus=econs
180 Stock Exchange Romans= economics+maps Zulus=0
200 Salt caravan -London (not demanded) =116 Romans= ThGrav
220 Bridge Building resInvention English exc BridgeBdg for Navigation Romans= bridgebdg Zulus=bridgebdg+50 French=navigation
240 Rom+fr+zulu(+maps)=bridgebdg
260 Romans= 50 French=maps
280 French=100
300 (Romans war with Fr) zulu+Romans= maps
360 Dye-caravan -London (not demanded)=61 Zulus=50 rom+French=maps
400 Invention resPhysics Fr+Zulus=Invention Romans= invention +150
420 (Romans bdg Leos) English=Invention rom+fr+Zulus=maps
440 Bribe barb Caravel for 82
480 Dye Caravan -York=57 Barbleader=150
500 Romans= 50 French=100
520 (French peace rom)
560 Physics resSteamEngine
580 Romans= physics Zulus=phys+50
600 (English get Leos!)
660 Romans war zulus Zulus=50 hut=25
700 French=physics
760 Steam Engine resRailroad Rom+French=Steamengine
800 Largest: Romans French English Persians Zulus
820 Coal caravan -Paris (not demanded) =78 fr+rom+Zulus=maps
860 English get tsunsu
880 Romans= 50 French=0 Zulus=50
900 Dye-caravan -Paris (demanded)=172 fr+rom+Zulus=maps
920 Railroad resChemistry
940 Darwin's Voyage Chemistry Magnetism resIndustrialization (French has Gunpowder) French exc railroad for gunpowder Zulus=gunpowder +100 Romans= railroad
1000 Zulus=magnetism+maps Romans= gunpowder French=chem
1040 Romans= 100 Zulus=chem French=0
1060 fr+zulu+Romans= maps
1120 Industrialization resExplosives Romans= magnetism Zulus=industr+50 French=industr
1140 Romans= 50
1180 fr+zulu+Romans= maps
1300 (French gets Corporation, English gets Democracy)
1320 Explosives resAtomicTh French exc explosives for corporation +100 Zulus=explosives+50 Romans= industrialn
1340 Engineer
1360 Engineer
1380 Engineer BarbLeader=150 Bribe barbKnight
1400 Zulus=corp(demand)+maps rom+French=maps
1440 (Romans peace Eng)
1460 Oil freight -Paris (not demanded)=101
1500 Atomic Theory resRefining (Largest: Romans French English Persians zulu)
1510 Factory Gold-caravan -Paris (not demanded) =101 English exc atomic theory for metallurgy
1520 Romans= explosives Zulus=metallurgy+maps French=100
1560 (French dev Refining) French exc Metallurgy for Refining+100
1580 resElectricity barbCrusader lands kills myLegion myChariot kills yellowed barbCrusader bribe barbFrigate
1600 Electricity resRefrigeration Romans exc refining for Democracy=maps Zulus=democracy+100 French=maps+0
1610 Romans= 150 French=maps
1620 (English flaunts Conscription)
1650 rom+fr+Zulus=maps
1660 Zulus=electricity+maps fr+Romans= maps
1680 (Romans dev Chemistry) Romans demands electricity but refuses exchange!
1710 Refrigeration resCombustion Romans= electricity+150 French=maps
1740 Romans exc corporation for Conscription + maps French=conscription+50 Zulus=consription+100 Zulus=atomicth nomaps Romans= maps French=refrigeration+maps
1752 French peace Eng, Romans= 150
1756 Bribe English engineer, war with Eng! Zulus=refrigeration+maps
1758 Zulus dev polytheism Combustion resCommunism
1760 Romans war English rom+fr+Zulus=maps
1762 Pop20 Sell sewer system
1764 (Romans take Newcastle) Romans= maps French gifts feudalism Zulus=feudalism
1766 sell aquaduct
1768 Riflemen Romans= 150 Zulus=200 French=100
1770 (Wealthiest: English French Persians Romans zulu) zulu+fr+Romans= maps
1772 Steal chivalry from Eng,
1776 zulu+French=chivalry Romans= combustion
1778 Sabotaged London university production
1780 Romans= refrig Zulus=combustion
1782 Communism resSteel
1784 United Nations English=peace
1786 French dev Electronics but refuses to exchange (bdg Hoover) Romans= chivalry
1788 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=105
1792 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=107, bribe English destroyer (830) Romans= 150, French gifts electronics Zulus=200
1796 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=107,
1798 English dev steel, English exc communism for steel
1800 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=110, resAutomobile
1802 Bribe English Transport (622) Zulus=100 Romans= 0 French=50
1804 Automobile resEspionage, Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=110
1806 Romans= electronics
1808 Superhighways (sc: 14t->9t) Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=214 Zulus=steel Romans= 75
1812 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=214 Romans= automobile fr+Zulus=maps
1816 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217 Bribe English engineer English=automobile
1818 Espionage resMass-Production
1820 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=210 Romans= 75 Zulus=150
1824 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217 Zulus=communism
1828 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217 Looks like a lucky freight commodity pair-loop here, make hay (wine and gold)...!
1832 Mass production resNuclear-Fission Bribe English engineer Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217 Zulus=mass production+150 French=100 Romans= 150
1836 Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217
1838 Romans gets Leadership exc electricity for leadership
1840 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217 all=maps except English
1842 Bribe Romans knight
1844 Bribe English freight (which arrived at Persepolis pattern)=oil, Wine-freight -Paris (not demanded)=217
1846 Oil-freight -London (demanded)=654 (almost paid for itself not counting the science bonus!) Romans= 150 French=100 Zulus=maps
1848 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=226 Zulus=leadership rom+French=maps (Romans freight NE(18,22) of Persepolis)
Bribe Romans Engineer, Romans= 150
1850 Wine-freight -London (demanded)=467
1851 Bribe English vet Dragoon (931) French=100 Zulus exc steel for polytheism +200
1852 Tactics resMachine-Tools (English dev Flight !!

) (sc 9t->12t) (French dev Fundamentalism) English exc tactics for flight Zulus=tactics (cordial->worshipful) Romans= tactics Wine-freight -London (demanded)=245
1853 Bribe Romans freight (267) =gems Gem-freight -York (not demanded)=98
1854 Manhattan Project (MostPowerful: English Romans French Persians zulu)
1856 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=122 fr+Romans= massproduction English=nuclearfission
1858 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=122 Romans= maps (new English city Dover just north of Persepolis - no overlap- phew!) Zulus=flight +300! French=nuclearfission+maps
1860 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=122 (French dev mobile-warfare)
1861 Machine Tools resMiniaturization French gifts Mobile-warfare
1862 Romans= nuclearfission Zulus=mobilewarfare fr+English=machinetools (still 13t) Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=122
1863 Romans= machinetools Zulus=nuclearfission+machine get 200 French=flight
1864 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=123
1866 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123 Bribe English cruiser (1010)
1867 Bribe Romans freight=Persepolis oil, Bribe English Alpinetroops (to gain access to York) Oil-freight -York (demanded)=346
1868 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=123
1869 Miniaturization resRadio Romans freight approaching from north
1870 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123 Bribe Romans armor (628)
1871 give miniaturization to all
1872 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=123
1873 Bribe Romans freight=Persepolis-wine, Wine-freight -London (demanded)=350
1874 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123
1875 Radio resAdvanced-flight (French dev computers) French gifts computers Disband persepolis-legion+diplo (14t-7t)
1876 Research-Lab (7t->6t) Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=121
1878 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=122 (decide to build SETI with so many caravans left)
1879 SETI Advanced Flight resRobotics sell Research-Lab
1881 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=124
1882 sc:5t->11t

1883 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=124
1885 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=124
1887 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123
1888 Robotics resRocketry
1889 Manufacturing Plant Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=124
1890 all maps except English
1891 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=124
1893 Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=124 English=radio
1895 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123
1898 Rocketry resSpaceFlight Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=124 Zulus=400 Romans=maps
1900 Gold-freight -Paris (not demanded)=123
1902 Steal laser from Romans Wine-freight Paris (not demanded)=122
1903 Gold-freight -Kharakoram (demanded) 458
1906 Zulus exc advanced flight and Radio for guerilla warfare and amphibious warfare
1908 Space Flight resPlastics
1909 Apollo Program Bribe Romans freight=oil Oil-freight -London (demanded)=573
1910 Structural1
1911 Structural2
1912 Structural3
1913 Structural4 English dev rocketry French dev advanced flight - looks ominous -with my 12-13t sc.
1914 Structural5 French sneak attacks my caravel and transport with chariot. Looks like WWI has started!
1915 Structural6 Peace with English who bragged about having Nuclear weapons
1916 The English nuked me - they weren't joking!

______
Ancora Imparo
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited July 11, 2000).]

Tom DeMille · July 11, 2000, 11:48

Back from my vacation. Glad to see others were able to win this one, although not as many have completed the game as with other OCC fortnights (the game took more than twice as long as a "regular" OCC game for me, so others might still be slugging it out).

With all the extra gold and production, I built several diplomats and bribed AI units. In particular, I bribed 4 settlers and 4 engineers over the course of the game, giving me lots of improvement potential. I also bribed a lot of barbarian units.

I transformed most hills/plains/forest to grassland. The extra food sped my city's growth. Unfortunately, I was unaware that you could get happy citizens in Fundy, and thus celebrate WLTD to get that extra trade arrow per tile. Oops.

The Aztecs and Romans developed quite impressively, having around 20 cities each by the time space flight came around. I was prepared for a big war with the Romans (with around 20 NONE musketeers/ riflemen/ various others that I had bribed during the course of the game), but was not looking forward to the result.

I was a little too generous with my gifting late in the game, resulting in the Romans and Aztecs both building their spaceships very quickly (outpacing my research to Superconductor). I gave up with about 5 years to go before my launch - The Romans were about to launch a <10 year spaceship.

I only recorded highlights for my game:

2200BC - Colossus
1400BC - Trade
Contact made with all AI civs
1250BC - Construction
950BC - 1st trade route
925BC - 2nd trade route
750BC - 3rd trade route
725BC - first tech that I discovered by research (Mathematics)
300BC - built Copernicus' Observatory
75BC - mongols destroyed by romans
60AD - built University
120AD - size 12
260AD - built Isaac Newton's College
580AD - Sanitation
940AD - Bridge Building
1590AD - built Darwin's Voyage
1670AD - Refrigeration
1758AD - size 21
1812AD - Automobile
1859AD - Computers
1874AD - size 30
1887AD - Space Flight
1888AD - built Apollo Program

Xin Yu · July 11, 2000, 13:13

First I notice that non-food caravans appeared a lot. This gives me an idea. After reaching size 8 or 12 and your city cannot grow anymore (no aqueduct/sewer), build a settler then disband it when the food box is about full. The next turn the city will grow back to original size and you get a chance to build a non-food caravan. Worthes trying if your instant trade bonus is 200+. (Reasoning: food caravan=50 shield towards a wonder, equivalent to 200 gold; trade bonus=200 gold + 100 science under fundy=300. Net=100 science. Other cost=20 shield lost for the settler and one turn loss for a pop, plus maybe you need to maintain a granary.)
In a regular game, an option is not to grow by WLTKD, thus having more non-food caravans.
If you have a good AI city for trade, it may worth trying. Especially when your shield production is 40+ but less than 50 while you already have gunpowder, you need two turns to build a caravan anyway (you are not going to spend 210 golds and a turn to build a caravan worthes only 200 golds, are you?).
It seems that the city is land-locked thus trade bonus is limited. Has anybody tried to build a road, later RR to the English city you want to trade? You may need to ally with it first. The road will add your trade bonus by 50%, I think.

Edit: after your city grows to maximum you can also try this 'build settler then disband' every several turns. However it takes longer for the city to grow back naturally.

[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited July 11, 2000).]

Paul · July 11, 2000, 15:30

I made the occ12 comparison table. I also received a scenario for occ13 from vik this weekend. Since there had been only four logs posted at that time I haven't posted that new scenario yet. I intend to do that tomorrow.

tonic · July 12, 2000, 20:27

Xin Yu:
On the railroad question I have tested this (using precisely the game from OCC12) and found that it made no difference whether there was a railroad, road or not between the two cities. (See the thread ).

One important question for me was "What determines the re-appearance of commodity- rather than food-caravans and how does this relate to the stock of food caravans on hand (waiting for Wonder building)?"

quote:

In a regular game, an option is not to grow by WLTKD, thus having more non-food caravans.

Can you elaborate on this?

Xin Yu · July 13, 2000, 11:30

tonic: first I think road and RR do increase trade bonus, unless you already got the upper limit (2/3 of the beakers required for the current tech). For your second question I noticed that when population grows naturally the supply and demand have a better chance to change.

Edit: second thought, we still should grow to maximum size quickly; just keep in mind that when the food box is about full, build a settler then disband it to refresh the supply-demand.
[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited July 13, 2000).]

Scouse Gits · July 14, 2000, 11:51

The longest and hardest yet!!

1964 landing second to the damn French who landed in 1962

Fundamentalist OCC Log - v2.42 - Deity

4000 Liverpolis founded
3850 hut Archer
3650 hut Alphabet
3350 Bronze Working
3250 hut Barbarian Horse loses to Fanatic
3200 hut Non Chariot
3150 hut 25g; London found: alliance, Pottery + Ceremonial Burial; hut Barbarian Horse kills Warrior
3000 hut 100g; hut Mysticism
2850 hut 25g
2800 Zimbabwe found: peace
2650 hut Non Horseman
2600 hut Barbarian Horse - loses to Archer -> vet
2500 hut Horseback Riding
2450 hut 50g
2200 COLOSSUS; hut 50g
2050 hut 50g
2000 Granary!; Teotihuacan found: peace, Code of Laws, Map Making & Writing
1950 Rather belatedly remembered to start celebrating!
1900 English: The Wheel + 50g
1850 hut Non Archer
1800 Marketplace
1700 hut Non Archer
1600 Aztecs: alliance + 50g; hut 50g
1550 Romans: cease fire; Library; hut Barbarian Horse - loses to Fanatic
1500 Temple
1450 hut 3 Barbarian Horse - dead Archer; hut 25g
1400 hut 25g; Barbarian Leader 150g
1300 met French: alliance, maps + 50g
1250 hut Barbarian Horse - kills Archer; allies: 150g + Literacy; Romans: peace
1200 French phalanx tips hut by my Horseman: 5 Barbarian Horse + 1 Legion! - kills my Horse
1150 allies: 75g
1100 hut 50g
1050 TRADE; allies: 100g
0925 hut Non Legion
0900 allies: 75g
0850 Barbarian Legion tips a hut just before I can reach it!!
0775 DYE to LONDON: 132g; allies: 75g
0600 Philosophy -> Mathematics; hut Engineering; allies: 75g
0475 Marco Polo's Embassy: allies 75g
0400 allies: 75g
0275 Romans declare war
0250 COPPER to KARAKORUM: 86g; SALT to RHEIMS: 108g; Gold to Lyons: 96g
0225 allies: 200g
0125 Astronomy
0100 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY; Barbarian King: 150g
----
AD01 Aqueduct; Size 9
0020 Colosseum; Get The Republic from the Aztecs - give to everyone else
0080 allies: 200g
0100 English: Invention
0120 Coal to London: 42g
0140 allies: 50g
0200 Bridge Building; allies: 50g
0220 LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP; Size 10;
0240 allies: 50g
0300 allies: 125g
0360 allies: 175g
0440 Banking from French
0480 University; allies: 250g
0500 French Settler chooses to become Non ...
0520 Bank
0540 allies: Monarchy + 200g
0560 University built
0600 allies: 150g
0620 Barbarian Trireme joins happy throng
0640 Size 12
0660 allies: 150g
0680 Theory of Gravity
0720 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; allies: Navigation + 150g
0780 allies: 175g
0840 Medicine; Wine to Tenochtitlan: 267g; allies: 175g
0900 Gold to Tenochtitlan: 107g; allies: Economics + 125g
0920 Stock Exchange; SANITATION; allies: Polytheism
0940 SewerSystem
0960 cheapskates: 50g
1020 allies: sympathy!
1080 Gunpowder; allies: 200g
1100 Size 13
1120 allies: Democracy
1140 allies: 175g
1200 allies: 200g
1220 STATUE OF LIBERTY
1240 Chemistry
1260 allies: 325g
1320 Size 14; allies: 25g
1380 allies: 50g
1400 Explosives - I now have 6 Non-Engineers
1440 allies: 100g
1500 allies: 200g
1510 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING COMPANY
1520 allies: Monotheism + 150g
1530 Steam Engine
1550 Size 15; allies: 175g
1560 MICHAELANGELO'S CHAPEL
1580 allies: 300g
1610 Railroad; allies: 275g
1620 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Metalurgy & Magnetism
1640 allies: 475g
1670 allies: 375g

Note: this is a most peculiar game - all five of the opposing civs are still in Monarchy and my four allies have been at war with Rome since the dawn of creation. However not with any great success. Currently the English have 10 cities, the French 8, the Zulus 10, the Aztecs 5 and Rome just 3 (having just taken Oxford in a well timed counter attack). Just to complicate matters the Zulus and Aztecs keep having border spats and then kissing and making up. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Liverpolis essentially has a sub-continent all to itself no cities having been founded closer than London. Ah well - on with the motley...

1700 allies: Industrialisation & 250g
1710 Size 16; Electricity
1730 Wine to Texcoco: 168g; allies: 325g
1752 allies: 175g
1754 Barbarian King kindly pays for 2 new recruits
1758 REFRIGERATION; allies: 375g
1760 Supermarket
1762 Oil to Paris: 64g
1764 allies: 450g
1768 Barbarian King; allies: The Corporation
1770 allies: Communism & 400g
1772 UNITED NATIONS
1774 Conscription
1776 Dye to Zimbabwe: 230g; allies: 200g
1782 Size 18; allies: 250g
1788 allies: 300g
1790 Espionage - I now have a large Spy Corps ready for service
1792 Factory
1794 Size 19; allies: Chivalry & 300g
1798 Dye to Paris: 220g
1800 allies: 300g
1806 Size 20; Electronics; allies: 325g
1808 Give Conscription to everyone, Cease Fire + 300g tribute from Rome!
1812 allies: 300g
1818 HOOVER DAM; Size 21; WLHPD stops; Research now 10 turns; allies: 300g
1822 Leadership; Rome: 75g Tribute (all our Worshipful)
1824 Allies: 225g
1830 allies: Genetic Engineering & 175g; Rome: 62g
1832 Size 22; allies: Steel; Rome: 50g
1838 allies: 225g; Rome 37g
1844 Tactics; allies: Refining & 400g; Rome: 75g
1848 Size 23; advances 10 turns
1850 allies: 400g; Rome 50g
1851 Barbarian Leader: 150g
1853 allies: 300g; Rome: 25g
1856 allies: 350g; Rome: 25g
1857 Machine Tools
1858 Size 24
1859 allies: 150g; Rome: 12g looks as if the honey pot is running dry
1860 allies: Atomic Theory
1862 allies: 225g; Rome: 25g
1865 Barbarian Leader: 150g; allies: 325g; Rome: 25g
1867 Combustion
1868 Wine to Dover: 190g; allies: 200g; Rome: 25g
1869 Size 25
1871 allies: 200g; Rome: 25g (all still Worshipful, but English & Zulus now a little shirty)
1872 Oil (stolen French Freight) to Tenochtitlan: 511g
1873 French: Guerilla Warfare; AUTOMOBILE (bye bye Leo); Gold to Karakorum: 252g
1874 Superhighways; Steal Theology from Aztecs; allies: sympathy; Rome: 25g
1875 J. S. BACH'S CATHEDRAL; Allies: Amphibious Warfare
1876 Gold to Brighton: 696g
1877 allies: 75g (Zulus now Enthusiastic); Rome: 25g
1878 Barbarian Leader: 150g
1880 Cloth (stolen from Zulus) to Karakorum: 450g; allies: 125g; Rome: 25g

Note: OCC is about small forces? The mighty (Inadequate & Spotless) Persian Empire now boasts: 11 Engineers, 10 Alpine Troops, 16 Riflemen, 1 Dragoon, 15 Cavalry, 5 Artillery, 2 Frigates, 2 Transports, 11 Spies & 48 Freight -- The bad guys are still all in Monarchy (thank the Lord)

1882 Size 26
1883 Miniaturisation; Gold to Brighton: 696g; allies: 175g; Rome: 25g
1884 Gold to Brighton: 720g
1886 Coal (stolen from French) to Tenochtitlan: 730g; allies: 100g; Rome: 25g
1887 THE SETI PROGRAM; Oil (stolen from French) to Paris: 640g;
1888 Mobile Warfare; Gold to Brighton: 704g
1889 Rome: 25g
1891 Robotics
1896 Manufacturing Plant; Nuclear Fission; English discover Flight; Gold to Brighton: 504g
1899 Size 27; Gold to Brighton: 326g
1900 Nuclear Power; Silk (from French) to Lyons: 350g; Oil (from French) to Paris: 343g
1902 Labour Union from French
1904 Radio
1908 Aztecs: 1000g for Computers!
1911 Aztecs: 1050g for Mobile Warfare!
1916 Size 28;
1918 Rome falls (to France) after 5 millenia of war; Rocketry; Copper to Teotihuacan: 242g
1921 SAM Battery
1924 SPACE FLIGHT
1925 APOLLO PROGRAM
1926 The Laser from French; Wine to Rheims: 250g
1927 Gold to Rome: 380g
1928 Plastic
1931 Size 29
1934 The French just built 12 Structurals in one turn - it doesn't look good!
1935 Superconductor
1937 Successfully sabotage Manhatten Project in Zimbabwe
1945 This time I had to destroy the Barracks, Hydro Plant & Factory before I got the MP
1949 LAUNCH 15:3:3:1:1:1 for 1964 landing
1950 Size 30; Repeated spy attacks have reduced Paris to size 11 and the French have at least for now stopped building SS parts
1951 Sneak attack by French
1953 French Launch 27:6:6:1:1:1 for 1962 landing
1956 Paris & Rouen destroyed - this obviously did not have the desired effect!!
1958 Amiens destroyed
1962 Chartres destroyed - FRENCH land AC

1964 Landing AC (Second)

At least I destroyed a few of their rotten cities!
Will tidy up after the w/e Good civin'

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Scouse Gits · July 15, 2000, 07:04

Great - after all that work to be beaten to AC and come last! Well at least I got there hard luck Tom & tonic

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

SCG · August 16, 2000, 08:25

Well, didn't quite make this one - my inexperience in several fields showed here. First time I had ever played a fundy government, first time I'd ever planted a nuke with a spy (even vet spies fail at an alarming rate), and it was the first time I had ever seen an AI civ split, let alone twice. I also spent way too long trying to get an alliance with the English, and even tried to compete with its research rate (they got plastics and superconductor on consecutive turns), instead of just stealing the darn stuff. Also built too many freights and not enough spies. I got communism plenty early enough to do something, and yet didn't start building spies until after the english launched. Also missed several chances to bribe English spies, which might well have made the difference in the game (they would have gotten advanced flight several turns later for one, and would have had to work for more of their cities) Techwise, my best pace was 4/turn, which I got just before english found flight, and just after computers, using a few extra scientists - probably one reason I tried to keep up. I also struggled with diplomacy - took forever to get the tech rate to actually go down when I gifted stuff, and I needed to have about 6 techs they didn't have in order to be able to trade - even then, sometimes they would only give me the option to buy techs from them. At one point I had 4 they didn't and I couldn't give them away. I built nearly half the wonders in the game, and while I made use of all of them, I failed to use the Eiffel Tower as well as I should (used it to get alliances, when I should have been more confrontational) I was able to stay in WLTAD virually the whole game, by rushbuying both the Hanging Gardens, and the Cure for Cancer (went into food deficit to get more scientists for GE on the brink of 21 for about 10 turns), but I still was a bit too much without direction when researching techs. I tried to use MPE & GL to trade for techs so I would research what other civs weren't, and it worked well for a while, but it cost me on certain key discoveries, since the English had a tendancy to hoard their techs instead of trade them. With all the wonders I did build, the one that I could have most used that i didn't get was Leo's. I had quite a few dips and a settler that never got upgraded. Partly because I had so many dips, i held off on spies too long. One final note to this ramble, if i hadn't been forbidden to capturing cities, I could have destroyed the English spaceship in 1950, even with more spies, I wouldn't have gotten it by destroying. The reason is that the English had just enough over 2000 gp that capturing a size 11 city takes them under 2000 (1000 with the split), while capturing a size 1 city didn't (tested that out after the game ended) I would have needed about 30 more spies for that. Then again with 30 more spies, I could have used poison in the water instead of nukes and kept a whole lot more of my spies. Other civs were building SS parts, but at a negligable pace, so the English were the only real threat.

Aside: SG(1) - you're not last anymore

even if i hadn't stopped my spaceship for spies, you'd have beat me by 2 years

diety, 2.42

AC - not quite, english landed dispite my heroic efforts in 1951

Colossus: -1850
copes: 100
newton: 780
darwin: 1814
apollo: 1927

trade: 1, 40, 340 (had to cross the mountains)

size 12: 1
size 21: 1857

-4000 Homeopolis founded
-3650 pottery
-3400 Size 3
-3000 hut (alphabet), hut (archer)
-2900 size 4
-2800 capture barb leader (150 gp)
-2750 ceremonial burial
-2700 temple, hut (chariot)
-2600 WL, english (peace, bronze working)
-2500 Indians (alliance)
-2400 size5 (cancel WL)
-2350 hut (25 gp)
-2300 hut (horseback riding)
-2100 hut (currency)
-2050 hut (25 gold)
-1900 masonry (french) peace, no alliance
-1850 colossus
-1800 size 6, WL
-1600 writing, hut (warrior code) hmm - give away 3-7 techs each to the 3 contacts, ally won't give and contacts say I have nothing to offer?
-1550 marketplace
-1300 library, hut (barb horseman - chariot dies)
-1250 capture barb leader
-900 construction
-850 aquaduct
-800 capt barb leader
-775 hut (100 gold)
-700 indians (100 gold for war with french)
-675 Hanging Gardens
-625 size 9
-575 trade (my first white tech!)
-500 pay 250 gold out to english and indians... (and i have an alliance for what reason?) indians expel diplomat, sticking to trading for a while
-250 Marcco Polo's Embassy
-200 watch my gold get drained by those who would wish to ally with me... (math and iron from japanese)
-150 caravan, Astronomy, code of laws (japanese) monarchy (egyptians - hey no option to revolt!), gift all techs to everyone but romans who demanded money and got war - no one seems to have any contact with them outside of MPE - techs go from 15/turn to 18/turn?
-125 French and Indian war ends

-100 caravan
-50 caravan
1caravan, size 12, dye to london (demanded)
20 Astronomy
40 caravan, salt to London (undemanded)
80 caravan
100 Copernicus' Observatory, gold to Madras (undemanded) (huh! Emperor Montezuma of the Egyptians?, guess that happened cause the aztecs died and this is a scenario)
140 caravan
180 caravan
200 literacy hmm, everyone but romans is receptive-enthusiastic, but won't exchange techs... (and they have them too)
220 caravan
260 caravan
300 caravan
340 caravan, copper to london (undemanded)
380 caravan
400 Philosophy, University
420 university
440 Great Library
480 caravan
500 legion kills archer, bribe legion
520 caravan, gold (demanded) to york
540 Medicine
560 caravan (no one wants to trade yet... and one has 2 prereqs to sanitation)
600 caravan
640 caravan
680 caravan
700 bribe french diplomat
720 caravan
740 engineering (GL)
760 caravan, Theory of Gravity
780 Isaac Newton's College, bribe barb legion
800 spend every cent to buy caravan
820 republic (GL - got option this time...), caravan
860 caravan
900 caravan
940 caravan, sanitation
960 gold (demanded) to York, gunpowder, invention, feudalism, seafaring, wheel, bridgebuilding (English)
980 sewer system
1020 caravan
1040 bribe barb legion
1060 caravan
1100 caravan, Banking
1140 bank
1180 caravan
1200 capture barb leader (150) (hey! he hurt my legion!)
1220 caravan, 100 gold from indians (gasp?!), gold (undemanded) to london
1260 caravan, navigation (GL)
1300 Chemistry, caravan
1320 dye (demanded) to madras
1340 caravan, coal (undemanded) to english, war... (demanded 800/834 of my gold supply)
1380 caravan
1420 caravan
1460 caravan
1480 explosives, gold (undemanded) to madras, dye (demanded) to bombay
1500 caravan (no trade interest tech wise...), bribe English elephant
1520 caravan
1540 caravan
1560 engineers
1570 Physics
1580 caravan
1600 caravan
1620 caravan
1630 bribe english knight (8 units now - will find out if its 8 or 10 free next unit

)
1640 caravan
1650 railroad, dye (demanded) to madras
1660 caravan
1680 caravan
1700 caravan, gold (undemanded) to madras
1720 caravan, Railroad
1730 Eiffel Tower
1740 colliseum
1752 caravan
1754 indians expel diplomat from my city (grumble) calcutta has 2 overlapping squares, and now there is a stream of indian units through downtown Homeopolis... break out the food caravans

)
1758 caravan, english demand 1000 gp (war continutes - another round and i might have gotten peace and metalurgy...)
1762 caravan (buy english cannon - back up to 7 supported units)
1764 gold (undemanded) to madras
1766 caravan
1770 industrialization, engineers, buy leo-upgraded dragoons, disband elephant (its 8 units - wonder what would happen if i transfered this to my 1.07 version

)
1772 caravan, dye (demanded) to bombay
1776 Factory
1780 caravan
1784 caravan
1786 communism (again got the message)
1788 democracy (indians) - this refusal hurts...
1790 UN, peace, Leadership, metalurgy (English), alliance (Japanese) for war with french (thats 2x now - don't think the french will ally, best bet is english among the 3 non-despots) Eiffel tower actually works :cool

1794 caravan, cartography with indians, egyptians, and japanese (the 3 despots, 2 which are OCCing also

)
1798 caravan, legion evicted from wine (english have city overlapping now too)
1802 caravan, monotheism (GL), gold (undemanded) to madras
1806 caravan, Economics, oil (undemanded) to madras, dye (undemanded) to york, 2 civs building darwins - have to build it soon - was hoping to use it post space flight - o well, will see how long i can wait

1808 stock exchange
1812 caravan, english have nearly complete DV - o well, but running low on food caravans
1814 Darwin's Voyage (Electricity, Refrigeration), down to 8 caravans (and have built 9 wonders already

)
1816 supermarket (will need genetic engineering soon)
1820 caravan
1824 caravan
1826 cloth (demanded) to norwich (the overlapping english city)
1828 caravan, gold (demanded) to Calcutta
1830 Corporation
1832 caravan
1836 freight, oil (undemanded) to madras
1838 freight
1840 freight
1842 freight, dye (demanded) to york
1844 freight, cease fire/peace (romans) no alliance
1846 freight
1848 freight, genetic engineering
1850 freight
1851 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1852 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1853 freight (well, it was great while it lasted

)
1854 freight - chatted with English, they say they were to busy with JS Bachs to talk - never seen that before.
1855 freight, oil (undemanded) to madras
1856 freight, electronics
1857 Cure for Cancer, size 21, dye (demanded) to york
1858 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta (its back!

)
1859 freight
1860 Hydro Plant
1861 freight
1862 freight
1863 freight, oil (undemanded) to london
1864 freight, refining, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1865 freight, dye (demanded) to madras
1866 freight
1867 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1868 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1869 freight, conscription, tactics, atomic theory, theology from english, dye (demanded) to madras
1870 freight, combustion
1871 freight
1872 freight
1873 freight
1874 freight
1875 freight
1876 freight
1877 freight
1879 freight
1880 freight
1881 freight
1882 freight, steel
1883 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1884 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1885 freight, dye (demanded) to calcutta
1886 freight
1887 freight
1888 freight, automobile
1889 superhighways
1890 freight
1890 freight
1891 freight
1892 freight
1893 freight, mass production
1894 freight
1895 freight
1896 freight
1897 freight
1898 freight, machine tools
1899 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1900 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1901 freight, miniaturization, dye (demanded) to madras (411!)
1902 freight, english find flight... discoveries go from 4 to 7
1903 freight (back to 6/turn => size 26)
1904 freight
1905 freight, emglish discover nuclear fission
1906 freight, computers
1907 research lab
1908 freight
1909 freight, english discover radio
1910 freight
1911 freight, robotics English (flight, radio, nuclear fission, guerilla warfare - had to BUY?!? guerilla warfare so that i could BUY?!? flight? - cost me 3500 gp)
1912 Manufacturing plant
1913 freight
1914 freight
1915 freight, gold (demanded) to calcutta
1916 freight, Advanced Flight
1917 freight, dye (demanded) to madras
1918 freight
1919 freight
1920 freight, rocketry
1921 freight
1922 freight, laser (English) - english are going to be a real bear - they have been wiping up on the other AI's
- 34 cities
1926 Space Flight
1927 Apollo Program
1928 Structural, English build 1 too.
1929 #2 (English at 7/2//0)
1930 #3
1931 #4 (Eng @ 7/2/1)
1932 #5, trade with london dropped, now at 6/turn instead of 5. Side note. London (21) demands uranium, as does virtually every other English city.
1933 #6 (eng @ 7/3/1)
1934 #7 (Eng @ 11//4/2)
1935 #8 (Eng @ 14/6/2), fusion power for chemistry (Indians) (i'm in trouble, and english have over 2000 gp)
1936 #9 (eng @ 15/7/3 and launch, 1951 date)
1937 spy, superconductor, english over 3000 gp, bribe engineer
1938 spy
1939 spy
1940 SDI, stole combined arms
1941 armor
1942 Manhatten Project
1943 spy
1944 spy
1945 spy
1946 spy
1947 #10, french build structural
1948 spy, nuke london, poison down to 1 and destroy (lost all my trade routes

), capitol moved to nottingham, 6 spies left, 3 turns left, bribed a bunch of English units with leftover diplomats, Egyptians appear from split, lose WLTAD
1949 spy, nottingham nuked and poisoned down to 3...
1950 spy, nottingham destroyed, capitol to zimbabwe, (hmm, only chance is if light blue goes before orange in a turn - man i wish i was white

) zimbabwe nuked, out of spy turns..., babylonians reappear
1951 english go first in the round and land...

Scouse Gits · August 18, 2000, 06:31

Hard luck SCG - there is little more frustrating than watching an opposing SS sail gracefully past your own ...

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

Ribannah · September 11, 2000, 21:18

OCC#12
Deity
MGE

This was the first time ever that I played Fundy. Wow, did we get rich! Thanks to Marco Polo we had all the AI tribes doing research for us, until they could no longer keep up (!). And none of them dared to wage war against us.
We probably should have researched Genetic Engineering sooner, it appeared to be necessary to maintain the "We Love The Ayatollah Day" at odd sizes. The different Gov techs were hard to come by as we couldn't trade for it. But we got some of them as tribute

================================================== =========
AC: 1907

Monarchy: -
Republic: -
Democracy: -

Colossus: -2200
+Gardens: -800
+Marco Polo: -500
Copernicus: -100
Shakespeare: -
Newton: 260
+Leonardo: 780 (gave us 5 none engineers)
+Smith: 1160
+Magellan: 1340
+Bach: 1510 (essential for We Love)
+Eiffel: 1600
Darwin: 1764
+United Nations: 1776
+Hoover Dam: 1808
+SETI: 1840
Apollo: 1865

Trade routes: 120, 120, 240

Size 12: 160
Size 21: 1720
Size 32: 1890 (still growing)

Trade: -525
Construction: -475
Sanitation: 620
Refrigeration: 1630

Automobile: 1804
Computers: 1838
Space Flight: 1864
============================================

-4000 PERSEPOLIS founded by Chani
-3750 Warriors
-3700 S2
-3600 Warriors
-3500 Warriors, Bronze Working, N-Chariot(h), Wine mined
-3450 English, Peace(E), Ceremonial Burial<-E

-3250 S3
-3150 Wheat irrigated
"Zulus destroyed by Barbarians"
-3100 Warrior Code(h), traded for Alphabet(E)
-3000 Barb Horsemen(h), killed attacking Fanatics->vet

-2900 Legion(h), Writing<-E

* Are they impressed by our Fanatics? *
-2850 Buffalo irrigated, Horsemen(h)
-2600 S4, Horseback Riding(h)
-2450 N-Chariot(h)
-2400 Masonry(h)
-2300 Zulus, 2 techs->Z, 50<-Z

-2250 traded for Map Making, 1 tech->E, 50<-E

, Gold mined
French, traded for Pottery, Peace(F), 3 techs->F, Maps(F)
-2200 COLOSSUS
-2050 Library
-1850 Temple, 50(h)
-1750 N-Legion(h)
-1700 Granary
-1650 Currency, 50(h)
4 techs->Z, Maps(Z), Ally(Z)
traded for Code of Laws(E) and Mathematics(E), 25<-E

traded for The Wheel(F), gave 3 techs, Maps(F), Ally(F), 25<-F

-1600 Marketplace
-1500 Diplomat, S5
Zulus want assistance in war(E), refused->Alliance cancelled
-1350 50(h)
-1250 S6
-1000 S7
-975 Mongols, traded for Mysticism(M) and Polytheism(M),
gave 1 tech, Maps(M), Ally(M), 100<-M

killed Barb Horsemen(h)
-950 N-Legion(h)
-925 Romans, traded for Iron Working(R), Peace(R), gave 2 techs->R,
Maps(R)
-875 S8
-850 Aztecs, Peace(A), gave 3 techs, Maps(A)
-825 3 techs->E, 75<-E

-800 HANGING GARDENS, We Love

(lux 10%!), Seafaring(h)
4 techs->Z, 50<-Z

-775 4 techs->F, received Monarchy(F)
-750 Diplomat, 5 techs->M, 25<-M

(PYRAMIDS - Aztecs)
-725 4 techs->R, no tribute

-700 Br Barb Chariot(61), Barb Leader (150)
4 techs->A, no tribute

-675 Barb Leader (150)
-600 Br Barb Legion(82)
-575 Barb Leader (150)
-550 (GREAT LIBRARY - Aztecs)
-525 traded for Trade(A) and Literacy(A), gave 1 tech
-500 MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY, Philosophy(h) (no free tech!! :mad

-475 Wine, traded for Astronomy(E), 3 techs->E, 50<-E

traded for Construction(F)
-450 4 techs->Z, 25<-Z

-425 Salt, University
-400 Barb Leader (150), 5 techs->M, Maps(M), no gift

-375 Gold
* We now need 50 turns for the next tech *
(GREAT WALL - Romans)
-350 3 techs->R, Maps(R), no tribute

-325 Aquaduct
-300 S9, * 44 turns *, 1 tech->Z, they break off
-275 University, * 33 turns *, Br barb Trireme

* Finally!! Dips waited a long time on the shore *
-250 4 techs->F, 50<-F

, 2 Barb Legions
-225 Food, Barb Leader (150)
-200 4 techs->Z, Maps(Z), 50<-Z

-175 Food, Romans sneak, kill N-Horsemen -> Mongols War(R)
-125 S10, * 30 turns *
-100 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY -> * 15 turns *
* world is now on 6 different techs

(2xRep) *
-75 (LIGHTHOUSE - Mongols)
-50 Colosseum, Romans kill Chariot
1 Food, 50<-A
40 Food, S11, * still 15 turns *
80 Food
100 Br Barb Trireme(82), Peace(R), 1 tech->R
120 Food, Theory of Gravity, Salt to Tenochtitlan (172),
Gold to Tenochtitlan (172), 2 Barb Legions
* now 12 turns *
160 Food, S12, Barb Legion
200 Food, Barb Leader (150)
240 Food, Medicine, Wine to Tenochtitlan (d,450)
* now 10 turns; lux back on 10% *
260 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE * now 7 turns *, Barb Legion
280 Barb Legion
300 Food, Chemistry, 50(h), Barb Legion
* Choosing Engineering - Zulus have been researching this for ages *
320 Barb Leader (150)
340 Food, Br E->N Archers(81)
380 Food, traded for Monotheism(F), 1 tech->F, 50<-F

3 techs->R, The Republic<-R

(only way, can't trade for it)
420 Settlers, S11
440 S12, traded for Banking(A), 100<-A

460 Bank, Engineering, 3 techs->Z, Maps(Z), 50<-Z

500 Coal, Br E->N Catapult(142), Barb leader (150),
4 techs->F, 50<-F

540 Cathedral
560 Br E->N Settlers(248)
580 Food
600 Br E->N Settlers(1004!)
620 Food, Sanitation
traded for Feudalism(A), 100<-A

traded for Bridge Building(E), 3 techs->E, 75<-E

5 techs->M, Maps(M), 150<-M

3 techs->R, Maps(R), no gift

660 Coal to Tenochtitlan (230)
680 S13, 3 techs->Z, 25<-Z

(MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL - French)
720 di Settlers
740 Invention, Barb Legion, traded for Economics(A)
2 techs->M, Barb Legion
(KING RICHARD'S CRUSADE - Romans)
760 1 tech->F, 100<-F

, Barb Legion
780 LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP, Barb Leader (150), Br E->N Settlers (1276!)
800 1 tech->R, 1 tech->Z
820 Stock Exchange
840 Barb Legion
860 Food, S14
900 Food, Gunpowder
920 1 tech->A, 100<-A

, 1 tech->M, 150<-M

,
3 techs->F, 50<-F

, Br Z->N Settlers (820)
940 Food, E sneak, kill Diplomat
980 Food
1000 4 techs->Z, 100<-Z

, Peace(E)
* all the AI's are now researching Navigation *
1020 Food, S15
1060 Food, Explosives, traded for Navigation(A), 200<-A

* we now have 5 NONE Engineers

*
2 techs->R, 2 techs->F, 3 techs->M, 150<-M

, 1 tech->E
1100 Food
1160 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO.
1180 S16, 3 techs->E, Maps(E)
1200 Food, Physics
1240 Food
1280 Food
1300 1 tech->F, Democracy<-F

, 2 techs->R, no tribute

3 techs->E, 100<-E

1320 Food, Hills into plains
* all the AI tribes are at war now *
1340 MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION, Magnetism, S17
1380 Food
1420 Food
1460 Food
1480 Metallurgy
1500 Food, S18, traded for Theology(R), 1 tech->R, 100<-R

3 techs->Z, 100<-Z

(SUN TZU'S WAR ACADEMY - Mongols)
1510 JS BACH'S CATHEDRAL, Hills into Plains
1520 Horsemen, 2 Barb Crusaders
1530 Barb Leader (150), 200<-A

1550 Food, Plains into Grassland(s)
1560 Electricity, traded for Steam Engine(A), 200<-A

,
1 tech->Z, 3 techs->E, 150<-E

1570 Food
1580 S19, Plains into Grassland(s)
(STATUE OF LIBERTY - Romans)
(SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE - French)
1590 Food
1600 EIFFEL TOWER, Plains into Grassland,
4 techs->Z, 50<-Z

, 4 techs->F, 250<-F

1620 City Walls, 4 techs->E, 250<-E

, 4 techs->M, 200<-M

1630 Food, Refrigeration
1640 Plains/r into Grassland/r
1660 Supermarket, S20
1680 Food, traded for Conscription(A), 150<-A

,
3 techs->R, 200<-R

1690 Barb Crusaders
1700 Food, Barb Leader (150)
1720 Food, Railroad, S21
6 (all) techs->Z, Maps(Z), 50<-Z

1 (all) tech->A, 250<-A

7 (all) techs->E, Maps(E), 50<-A

1730 We Love cancelled

, 1 tech->R
1740 Food, traded for Chivalry(F), 4 (all) techs->F, 300<-F

6 (all) techs->M, Maps(M), 200<-M

1752 Food, S22, all farmland -> we are now making +32 food
1756 Food
1760 Food, S23
1762 Industrialization, 3 (all) techs->Aztecs, 200<-A

1764 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> The Corporation, Refining
1 tech->R, 250<-R

, 3 techs->Z, 50<-Z

,
3 techs->E, 100<-E

, Barb Crusaders
1766 200<-A

(wanted to receive Communism)
Barb Crusaders, Barb Leader (150)
1768 Food, S24, Barb Crusaders
1770 Plains into Grassland
1772 Factory
1774 Diplomat, 2 techs->A, 200 <-A

Steal Communism, no War!!

1776 UNITED NATIONS
1780 Cloth, Steel, S25, Buffalo/r into Grassland(s)/r
5 (all) techs->R, 100<-R

, 3 (all) techs->Z,
1 (all) tech->A
1784 Oil, Alliance(F) dissolved over War(A)
1786 Cloth to Tenochtitlan (141)
1788 Gems, S26, Barb Crusaders
1790 Barb Crusaders, Grassland(s)/r into Coal/r
1792 Food
1794 Combustion, Gems to Tenochtitlan (d,422),
Oil to Tenochtitlan (141)
1796 Gems, Coal/r mined
1800 WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE

, S27
1804 Automobile, Wheat into Silk, Steal Electronics(A), no War!

1806 Superhighways, Gems to Tenochtitlan (d,848)
1808 HOOVER DAM
1810 Oil, Mass Production
1812 Hides, Barb Cannon, 2 Barb Musketeers
1814 Mass Transit, traded for Leadership(F), 2 techs->F, 250<-F

Mass Production->A, 1 Barb Crusaders, 3 Barb Musketeers
1816 Hides, Hides and Oil to Tenochtitlan (2x288)
2 Barb Crusaders, 2 Barb Cannons, 2 Barb Musketeers
1818 Oil, Tactics, S28, We Love

, Barb Musketeers
1820 Hides, Barb Crusaders, Barb Cannon
1822 Hides, Oil (358) and Hides (363) to Tenochtitlan
1 Barb Cannon, 2 Barb Musketeers
1824 Hides, Machine Tools, Barb Musketeers
1826 Hides, 2 Hides to Tenochtitlan (2x363)
2 Barb Cannons, Barb Musketeers
1828 Oil, Barb cannon, Barb Leader (150)
1830 Hides, Miniaturization, Hides to Tenochtitlan (363)
* We now have over 10,000

*
Barb Musketeers
1832 Hides, Barb Cannon/Leader
1834 Hides
1836 Hides, Plains into Grassland
1838 Hides, Computers, Oil to Rome (d,1343),
Hides to Tenochtitlan (363)
1840 SETI PROGRAM, Atomic Theory, S29, We Love ends

Hides to Tenochtitlan (288)
1842 Oil
1844 Hides
1846 Hides
1848 Hides, Nuclear Fission, 4 Hides to Tenochtitlan (4x288)
1850 Hides, Hides to Tenochtitlan (288), 3 Barb Dragoons
1851 Hides, Flight, Barb Dragoons, Barb Leader (150),
Oil to Rome (d,548)
1852 Oil
1853 Hides
1854 Hides
1855 Hides
1856 Hides, Radio
1857 Hides, S30, We Love

, Oil to Rome (d,840)
3 Hides to Tenochtitlan (3x192), Computers->F, 125<-F

1858 Hides, Advanced Flight, 5 Hides to Tenochtitlan (5x192)
1859 Hides
1860 Hides
1861 Gold, Rocketry, 4 Hides to Tenochtitlan (4x192)
1862 Hides, Gold to Tenochtitlan (189)
1863 Hides
1864 Hides, Space Flight, Hides to Tenochtitlan (192)
1865 APOLLO PROGRAM, we have 17432 gold
2 Hides to Tenochtitlan (2x192), Barb Musketeers
1866 SSS
1867 SSS
1868 SSS, Plastics
1869 SSC
1870 SSC
1871 SSC
1872 Gold, S31, We Love ends

1873 SSC, Alliance(M) dissolved over Advanced Flight
1874 SSC, Nuclear Power, Gold to Kashgar (d,326)
1875 SSC
1876 SSS, Br F Destroyer (261), 2 Barb Musketeers, 4 Barb Cannons
1877 SSS, 3 Barb Musketeers
1878 Gold, Barb Leader (150)
1879 SSS
1880 SSS, The Laser, Br Barb Musketeers, Gold to Kashgar (d,332)
1881 SSS
1882 SSS
1883 SSS
1884 SSS
1885 SSS
1886 Gold, Superconductor
1887 SSS, Br 2 Barb Dragoons, 2 Barb Dragoons/1 Leader
1888 SSS, di Knights
1889 SSS
1890 SSM, S32, We Love

1891 SSM
1892 SSM, Fusion Power, LAUNCH the "CHANI"
* still over 10,000 gold *, Gold to Kashgar (d,512)
1893 SDI Defence
1894 SAM Missile Battery
1895 Airport, traded for Guerilla Warfare(R)
1896 THE ORACLE, Mobile Warfare
1897 Barracks
1898 Armor
1899 Fighter
1900 Gold
1901 Hides, Espionage, Gold to Kashgar (d,524)
1902 Spy, Hides to Tenochtitlan (192)
1903 Spy
1904 Spy, Genetic Engineering, Steal Guerilla Warfare(A),
Steal Fundamentalism(A) * no incident!! *
1905 CURE FOR CANCER
1906 MANHATTAN PROJECT, Steal Amphibious Warfare(A), Spy captured
di Dragoons
1907 Nuclear Missile, The "CHANI" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 557 (72%)

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire