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Old September 28, 2001, 15:58   #451
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It's not so much the ideal of the Believers, more like the fact that when playing SMAC she tends to be a real b***h. And I can imagine the stereo/architype she is
In fact, I think she has a much too bad a reputation on Chiron... And maybe "hating guts" was too hard. Mere dislike.
Maybe Miriam and I can come along, in time. The Believers are cool, but Miriam sucks
Maybe a little attitude change in our little redhead? But not too much, or she'll loose her edge.

Guardian, those are PK ideals, but are they Lal's ideals?
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Old September 29, 2001, 06:07   #452
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Morganic Agenda
Haven't posted here for a while (except for my Usurper story), so I hope no-one minds if I speak up again at this point?

Here are Morgan Industries' major concerns at the moment:

1. Eco-terrorism. Security suspects the University's gas incident was eco-terrorism, and I think I mentioned a firefight between security forces and eco-terrorists around a month ago. One can see why they would fear this. The lack of a material air presence (see below) makes isolated facilities vulnerable to long-range SAS-style commando raids. And that's not even considering domestic activism (read: drone riots). And so forth.

2. The Industrial Summit. No, I haven't forgotten that. And if it does go ahead (ie. the Third Spartan War doesn't bankrupt us), I'm dreaming up some advanced robotic mining equipment for people to drool over.

3. Modernizing the army. Recent shows of power by the Data Angels (who I thought weren't allowed to use Power in the Social Engineering screen ) have made the government painfully aware of its limitations in the military sector. We don't even have a real air force. Keep your eyes open for major future purchases from Sparta and the Hive, and possibly even a bid to acquire a share of the Ascetic Virtues.

Catch you all Planetside!
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Old September 29, 2001, 16:02   #453
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Quote:
2. The Industrial Summit.
Oh, about that... I assume it is held after the PG election. So can Miriam join? Please please please? The BDC will ask the Morganite delegation once at PC Base?
And maybe some co-operation with the air force purchases?

Oh, and to Guardian: "Sort this mess out with Spartans" does not sound like "improve relations" - that sounds more like "kick their sorry hind quarters", so to speak
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Old September 29, 2001, 17:32   #454
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So... In order of importance, as a group, we should resolve the "WORLD" Issues

1.) Planetary Governor Elections
2.) Nerve Gas
3.) Believer-Cult War
4.) Peacekeeper's Relations
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Old September 29, 2001, 20:43   #455
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The Hive's issues:

1) Planetary Governor elections.

2) Tensions with PKs and Chiron alliance in general.

3) Believer-Cult war.

4) New Hive allies, like Morgan and the Believers. The Hive wants to counter the Chiron alliance and also wants access to the new technology it lacks.
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Old September 29, 2001, 22:20   #456
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Belated Data Angel Concerns
1.) Planetary Governor Election
2.) Nerve Gas Incident
3.) Tensions along our borders with our neighbours
4.) Relations with Cybernetic-Conciousness and Gaian's.

As for the nerve gas incident, I don't think the Angels should be the ones to uncover it. The way I saw there participation was this: Roze sent Rezon and his team to investigate. When things went to hell, one of Rezon's underlings saw an opportunity for a promotion by getting rid of Rezon. Rezon thinks Roze set him up, so she could be with her new lover and Roze's is trying to prevent an incident by covering up the fact that the Angel's were there, even though they didn't blow it up. Just my thoughts. Your ideas?
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Old September 29, 2001, 22:40   #457
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I'm back guys. did anthing important happen? Are the Spartans still availible.

God it is so good to be back home with the one I love. But I don't know for how long.
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Old September 30, 2001, 02:32   #458
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Cult objectives:

1. Cult-Believer war and to end it( obviously)
2. Find allies
3. Planetary Elections
4. Preaching peacefully about a more ecological way of life.

Welcome back, Sprayber...

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Old September 30, 2001, 05:49   #459
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Miriam, Kass, is welcome to join the summit. I think Morgan's representative to the Council publicly invited all factions to participate. The Morganites and the Believers have much to learn from each other.
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Old September 30, 2001, 11:24   #460
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The Hive would like to attend the Industrial summit if it will improve relations with Morgan, but the Hive does want to keep its Planned economy. We'll have to see if that sparks tensions or not.
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Old September 30, 2001, 13:32   #461
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Okay Argonaut- you can do that, I'll work it into my storyline.

I have decided to place the Planetary Governor votes not because the story cannot move on until the votes are taken and I do not wish it to stagnate.

After that we can resolve the nerve gas and the Cult-Believer war... (My storyline will depend on who wins the PlanGovernor elections)

I believe the Spartans, PK's, and DAngels are running... Correct?

Welcome back sprayber!
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Old September 30, 2001, 13:46   #462
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Welcome back Sprayber - good to hear that you are in one piece. You have arrived just in time to win the election

Mr President, Natan: Okay. But the Believers run Planned also, so we'll be in the Hive camp with that (Believing SE is Fundamentalist-Planned-Simple, IIRC)

DarkCloud: A prudent decision, Miriam's vote placed.

DarkCloud and Argonaut: Methinks the Believers were very heavily involved with the nerve gas accident, right?
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Old September 30, 2001, 15:26   #463
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Welcome back Speayber!
As you may have noticed, virtually nothing at all happened while you were away, so we can pick up right where we left off.

Now, I would like to draw everyone's attention to the admin thread for a moment... it appears we have some rather MAJOR inconsistencies in terms of sizes and numbers of military forces. I haven't posted anything about the PK forces yet, and I currently find it kind of hard to do so, seeing as how - for instance - the air force is supposed to have more than 40 units, but fewer than 10 units...

Quote:
Originally posted by kassiopeia

Guardian, those are PK ideals, but are they Lal's ideals?
Actually, yes.
However, Lal would like to get rid of all the factions and have everyone unite under one (PK) government, which would then protect everyone's rights (-and which he'd like to be part of)... This doesn't mean Lal wants everyone to think the way he does, although it can easily be mistaken for just that. Oh, and of course, everyone would have to agree on certain basics (U.N. Charter, etc.)... For more details, watch for my introduction to PK politics - coming soon to an admin thread near you!

Quote:
Originally posted by kassiopeia

Oh, and to Guardian: "Sort this mess out with Spartans" does not sound like "improve relations" - that sounds more like "kick their sorry hind quarters", so to speak
Well, "kick their sorry hind quarters" is not the typical PK idea of how to go about sorting out their differences with other factions... However, in the Spartans' case... well, we really don't know yet...
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Old October 1, 2001, 02:30   #464
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Okay, the above post has changed a little...
(i.e. if you already read it, you may wish to re-read it to see my revised answers to kassiopeia...)
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Old October 1, 2001, 14:19   #465
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guardian
Now, I would like to draw everyone's attention to the admin thread for a moment... it appears we have some rather MAJOR inconsistencies in terms of sizes and numbers of military forces. I haven't posted anything about the PK forces yet, and I currently find it kind of hard to do so, seeing as how - for instance - the air force is supposed to have more than 40 units, but fewer than 10 units...
Just the air force, or all forces in total?

Quote:
However, Lal would like to get rid of all the factions and have everyone unite under one (PK) government, which would then protect everyone's rights (-and which he'd like to be part of)... This doesn't mean Lal wants everyone to think the way he does, although it can easily be mistaken for just that. Oh, and of course, everyone would have to agree on certain basics (U.N. Charter, etc.)... For more details, watch for my introduction to PK politics - coming soon to an admin thread near you!
Oh, what is that lurking in the horizon? Well well, isn't that our old friend Conflict?
Lal is rather optimistic with that. To have the Believers join the Federation - I mean, UN , there would have to be some major internal change in Believing goverment, something like a revolution or similar.

A question to our moderators: Is it possible for a faction to have a revolution and change it's leader?
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Old October 1, 2001, 19:28   #466
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Quote:
Originally posted by kassiopeia

DarkCloud and Argonaut: Methinks the Believers were very heavily involved with the nerve gas accident, right?
True, the BSF sponsored the Perfect Society to capture the gases after they discovered news of the transport; they wished to use the gases on mindworms. A few BSF members (5 or 6) accompanied the PS from afar, watching, and waiting to confiscate the materials after the PS take them.

Thus, you are correct in your assumption

----

No, it is not possible for a faction to have a revolution and change its leaders- I believe it IS possible to have a revolution and NOT change the leaders, however
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Old October 2, 2001, 09:51   #467
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Quote:
Originally posted by kassiopeia

Just the air force, or all forces in total?
That would be the air force. LordLMP has previously stated that the Pirates have 40 air units and their air force is smaller than that of the Peacekeepers. DarkCloud, on the other hand, says the Peacekeepers have "7 - 10 air units"...


Quote:
Oh, what is that lurking in the horizon? Well well, isn't that our old friend Conflict?
Lal is rather optimistic with that. To have the Believers join the Federation - I mean, UN , there would have to be some major internal change in Believing goverment, something like a revolution or similar.
Our old friend Conflict is never far away, it seems...
Lal isn't actively pursuing his rather lofty goal at the moment though, and he isn't all that optimistic about it either, but it's still a goal to strive for... However, there are many different views on how to go about striving for it...
(once again, check out the PK politics thing once I get around to posting it...)
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Old October 2, 2001, 14:25   #468
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
True, the BSF sponsored the Perfect Society to capture the gases after they discovered news of the transport; they wished to use the gases on mindworms. A few BSF members (5 or 6) accompanied the PS from afar, watching, and waiting to confiscate the materials after the PS take them.
And then the ship blew up, and the BSF received radio transmissions of a firefight onboard moments before explosion, IIRC.

----
Quote:
No, it is not possible for a faction to have a revolution and change its leaders- I believe it IS possible to have a revolution and NOT change the leaders, however
But a Believing revolution without overthrowing Miriam... Like carrying water from a lake to another. Much work, no gain.

Trying out the limits

Guardian: Well then, it's not my problem, as the Believers have no air forces
I'm anxious to read that Politics -post.
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Old October 2, 2001, 18:40   #469
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40 Air Units is overkill- even 40 Ground Units is overkill... But 40 Air Units more so- How can anyone have 40 Air Squadrons after Airflight has only been avaliable ofr 20 years! The pirates with 40 AS could crush any other faction on the planet.
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Old October 3, 2001, 02:03   #470
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DarkCloud: Well, I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I'm just saying we need to get this sorted out before I'll post anything on PK military strength. Personally, I thought 40+ air units sounded like an awful lot, but 7-10 sounds like very little. Perhaps something in between would be about right?
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Old October 3, 2001, 07:59   #471
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You people are complaining about 40 air units? How about the total sum of pirate units, whick is about...388 units!. No offense to LordLMP who has done a hellawa job keeping this thing together, but once again I´d like to point out a infrastructural and support impossibility. Hive has 190 units, and normally you´d think the Hive would have most units, and the Spartans have 163 units. So whats wrong with this equation? I am getting slightly pissed off here because the same thing happened before the restart.
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Old October 3, 2001, 08:46   #472
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Let's not be pissed off...

Just let's sort things out before we move on and it won't be a problem.
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Old October 3, 2001, 14:34   #473
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I'll see what I can do with maxes allowed, No one faction should have 1/3 of the the amount of units on chiron... at least right now

I believe this is a fair chart:

---
Hive max- 220
Pirates max- 210
-
(Lost a lot during wars, but they have a large industrial capacity) Morganites max- 200
-
Spartans max- 190
Free Drones max- 190
DAngels max- 150
Cyborgs max- 140
PK's max- 140
Believers max- 130
University max- 130
Gaians max- 120
Cult max- 100
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Old October 3, 2001, 16:12   #474
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Sorry for dissapearing. Didn;t have the internet for five days and i move into my new apartment by myself, yay!

People, are you going to simply ignore Svensgaard at the COuncil? :P maybe thats why they want to get done the elections now before the scheduled leaders arrived, just to avoid giving Svensgaard an answer :P Fine, be that way ;p

Just don't go around complaining what the Pirate does when you could of prevent it by accept to Svensgaard terms

The lost of the Anti-Worm Gas convoy a world issue??? And more important then the war between Believers-Cult? :P


As for the military, i agree.... Definatly should redo the pirates stats.... but we didn't seriously agree to How Big a Unit should too...

I think for a Unit to equal to a Regiment is to big....

How about this:

Infantry Unit = Battalion
Rover/Hovertank/etc = Platoon/Squadron (12-15 rovers/tanks/etc)
Needlejet Unit = Squadron (12-15 jets)
Chopper Unit = Platoon/Squadron (12-15 Choppers)
Naval Unit = One Foil/Cruiser
Naval Transport/supply Unit = One
Air Transport/Supply Unit = One
Supply Convoy = Small convoy of around 5 Supply Crawlers


In SMAX, Cruisers are faster and stronger then Foils...but Foils would be more maneuvarable.
Infantry would have Armoured Personel Vehicules, Personel, etc... for moving them about. But doubt they will always be available.
Pirates military may be Large, but they spread out all over the place... Not like their military is concentrated in one area like most of the rest of the factions.


I also suggest we wrap up year 2200 by skipping to 2201.... so briefly mention the results of the Naval Confrontation, The Issues in the PLanetary Council like Svensgaard's "Dare" and the Governor elections. We should post our votes at the Planetary Council Thread please.

Another suggestion is bring back the date thing... but will have conditions so people don't go to far in the future too quickly or drag it way to long. Because getting into this game minute by game minute details of a situation is bit to unrealistic here... especially of others wants to go on. Military Confrontations should be dealt like from a General Distance, like the President sending the military to the middle east... He will get general reports, but doubt he will be able to get minute by minute details.... (Unless your glued to the maps at a Command Nexus or Marinetime Control Center). Results of a conflict should be discussed between the involved Players...privatly too maybe to prevent other players to make actions base on "predictions of the future" :P

So, to repeat again, this is Diplomacy type game... meaning, don't get to much to Story like details! :P

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Old October 3, 2001, 20:30   #475
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I based the Hive's number of units on what the faction would be able to support in SMACX. So I have a bit over four supported units per base, to keep the mineral costs reasonable. I think this is a good way of doing things, because it will be readily apparent how many units each faction can support before it hurts the economy and how much.
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Old October 3, 2001, 22:04   #476
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Old October 3, 2001, 22:05   #477
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Quote:
Originally posted by [LordLMP]


Just don't go around complaining what the Pirate does when you could of prevent it by accept to Svensgaard terms

The lost of the Anti-Worm Gas convoy a world issue??? And more important then the war between Believers-Cult? :P
Possibly not more important- but it is necessary to resolve the Vote-the Gas- then the B-C war... Each could cause reprecussions with the others... Zakharov knows most everyone who was involved- yes, he doesn't know everything, but he has good enough data to throw the blame in any direction, regardless of the veracity of his accusations

Quote:
As for the military, i agree.... Definatly should redo the pirates stats.... but we didn't seriously agree to How Big a Unit should too...
A unit is as big as the units in the Game, thus there most likely will not be many units on the ground at one time.

Quote:
Infantry Unit = Battalion
Rover/Hovertank/etc = Platoon/Squadron (12-15 rovers/tanks/etc)
Needlejet Unit = Squadron (12-15 jets)
Chopper Unit = Platoon/Squadron (12-15 Choppers)
Naval Unit = One Foil/Cruiser
Naval Transport/supply Unit = One
Air Transport/Supply Unit = One
Supply Convoy = Small convoy of around 5 Supply Crawlers
... I don't know- I really can't comment on this... Except I think the Needlejet should be 5-12 at most and the choppers should be 5-12 at most as well. Anything else seems like overkill... It costs a lot of money to maintain a large army force.



Quote:
I also suggest we wrap up year 2200 by skipping to 2201.... so briefly mention the results of the Naval Confrontation, The Issues in the PLanetary Council like Svensgaard's "Dare" and the Governor elections. We should post our votes at the Planetary Council Thread please.
"Dare"? Did I miss something?
... Too late to do that now But bump it with your vote if you like

Quote:

So, to repeat again, this is Diplomacy type game... meaning, don't get to much to Story like details! :P
Ah, yes, I remember THAT discussion but there is still room for intrigues
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Old October 4, 2001, 02:40   #478
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Quote:
Originally posted by [LordLMP]

People, are you going to simply ignore Svensgaard at the Council? :P maybe thats why they want to get done the elections now before the scheduled leaders arrived, just to avoid giving Svensgaard an answer :P Fine, be that way ;p
Heh... well, I had no idea you'd posted anything new in there...
I'll try to put an answer up there later today. If not, then it'll probably be a few days, since I've got tomorrow off and I'll be away for the weekend. Anyway, it's coming...

As for military and unit sizes... well I agree that a wing (which could be over 100 aircraft) is a bit "over the top" for air units, so a squadron sounds better. As for rover units, I wouldn't mind them being a little bigger... perhaps about 40 or so??

Everything else looks good to me.


Quote:
So, to repeat again, this is Diplomacy type game... meaning, don't get to much to Story like details! :P
Ummm... it seems I'm pretty good at doing just that...
I won't quit it totally, but I'll try not to get too carried away, okay?
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Old October 4, 2001, 08:39   #479
[LordLMP]
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Darkcloud, yes it is expensive Paper Money wise...where the value changes constantly and prices goes higher and higher every year...which is vulnerable to inflation big time. But Energy Currency wise...where anyone can produce it out of nowhere... lot easier and cheaper to maintain military units especially for factions by 2200. But Pirates is bit overboard still...have to reorganize. Ignore Svensgaard? Have you read his speach in the Planetary Council? how can you ignore that and postpone it? :P When was another Leader ever done something like that? :P like most things, that speach seem to have drown with the mass media coverage of NYC and Washington when i posted that....
Vote for Nerve Gas? Darkcloud, it is already considered illegal in the charter :P

Natan, can have free units when you consider Support... but if you have a large extensive mining operations, etc... can acquire plenty enough resources. Pirates are into Supply Convoys and in the game, can get hoot like more resources that way Anyway, probebly should make a simple formula....

Guardian. rather keep the rover units small.... becomes a bit silly having large rover armies :P And makes sence maintenance wise....

-LMP
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Old October 4, 2001, 10:47   #480
Guardian
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OK, we'll keep the rover units small then.

I never meant to ignore Svensgaard, but you placed his speech in there by editing an old post, so nobody saw that there was anything new in there unless they actually opened the thread to re-read it or something... -which I suspect not many of us have done lately...

Anyway, I won't be able to post a PK response today and I'll be busy/out of town for the next 3 days, so it'll probably be on monday some time...

Have a nice weekend!
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