OCC fortnight #17

[Paul]

Tom has sent me a scenario for #17. Download it here. Tom has hacked the save so that you play as both the Romans and the Barbarians. In v2.42 you can just load it as a regular saved game. In MGE/UCC you must load it through multiplayer -> hotseat -> load hotseat game.

Some pointers: as the barbs you won't get anything from huts, so open huts only with your Roman units. Also, as barbs you can't research, so your barb settlers can't build roads on rivers, railroads, fortresses and farmland.

I already played the game and landed on AC in 1756. I'll post my log later.

[Hueij]

Dang, just finished #16... Well, this one has to wait till next weekend but it sounds good. Two civs for the price of one

[Caesar]

Hmm... When I get the chance I will, right now I'm trying to play some diablo 2 and civ mp w/o it interfering with my schoolwork

The barbs provide for some interesting strategy, wait can you play as 2 civs in 2.42? Or only one? Another question before I play in 2.42, assuming you can play 2 civs, is it like MGE hotseat where you can't see your opponents moves?

[Smash]

I'm a little confused(fancy that).

Does this mean I can build "red" cities if I want to?

[SandMonkey]

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum4/HT...tml?date=19:44

There are your answers people. That's the thread that discusses playing as the barbs. I tried it out, and it's pretty neat. Just beware that your barb units get their butts kicked all over the map.

[Oldman]

This is starting to sound very confusing!?!?!? can the barbs do diplomacy? Ooo-urhg-ahh this is doing my hang over no good at all!!!


Edit Typos...
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited September 05, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

Paul, how about Smash's question? Are the Reds allowed
to have cities in OCC? Zero, one, or as many as they want?

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Paul]

I don't think the barbs should have any cities. But the scenario was made by Tom, so I would also like to hear his opinion on the subject.

[Tom DeMille]

Hey all, I hadn't realized Paul had posted the scenario yet.

As Paul said, I hex edited a v242 saved game to allow you to play both as the whites and reds. You can play with MGE by selecting hotseat mode.

Official rules for Red barbarians: Do whatever the heck you feel like with them.

unofficial hints: (Smash's question) founding a barb city is next to useless. Since barbs can't have any techs (you can research them, but you "loose" them when discovered), your city will be stuck building warriors or other settlers. Hmmm, I guess you could build a barb city (or capture an AI city) and pump out lots more settlers. Maybe not such a useless idea after all.

(Oldman's question) You can found embassies with your barb diplomats, but the AIs won't talk to you- you will be in a constant state of war.

Anyways, have fun.

edit: Smash, give me a shout if this doesn't work on your Mac version.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited September 05, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

Yes, more NONE Settlers was the idea. But you'd have to use one of the original two to make it happen, and maybe the delay isn't worth it. We'll see

[Smash]

It works perfectly on my MAC

I was thinking after land improvements to build "buffer" barb cities but I'm not sure yet.

Needless to say,this is new for me and I'm still thinking about how to take advantage.

[tonic]

On 2.42 the switching from Romans to Barbs takes a bit of getting used to. Pity about not being able to effectively pop huts with Barb units!

Tom demonstrates yet again there's many a twist to OCC!

[Tom DeMille]

And too bad you can't trade maps between the whites and reds

[Ribannah]

OCC #17
Deity
MGE

Interesting, and weird. Could probably be a lot faster with Barb cities (you need Leo, of course), but I tried without and they were a lot of help already, bringing free units and bounty to our homestead.
Disturbing was the fact that declarations of war and such went unnoticed because of the multiplayer version. We even got tech without notification (Monotheism, apparently).
We opted for the "slow" 36 year spaceship, but the AI's were no threat. Our fortified Riflemen kept even their Armor at bay; they never discovered Flight.
A thing to mention is that in Multiplayer the AI tribes are much more civilized than in Single Player MGE, and we got some nice gifts we never saw before.

================================================== ==============
AC: 1716

Monarchy: -
Republic: -1950
Democracy: 140

Colossus: -1800
Copernicus: 600
Shakespeare: -50
Newton: 380
Leonardo: 500
Darwin: 980
Apollo: 1460

Trade routes: -825, -750, -675

Size 12: 20
Size 21: 200 (23 in 240)

Trade: -1300
Construction: -800
Sanitation: -125
Refrigeration: 520

Automobile: 980
Computers: 1160
Space Flight: 1440
============================================

-4000 ROME founded
-3950 50(h), East Barb Settlers to work
-3850 Alphabet, West Barb Settlers to work
-3800 Warriors, Chariot(h)
-3750 di Warriors
-3650 Archers(h)
-3500 50(h)
-3400 S2
-3350 Writing
-3000 Code of Laws, Pottery (hut)
-2850 Barbs get a Trireme with Archers and Diplomat!!
Aztecs found, Writing<->Ceremonial Burial(A), Peace(A),
techs->A, Ally(A), 50<-A
-2800 Hey! My Dip is home! Don't we get to see AI moves?
-2650 Barb Leader (100)
-2450 Barbs get trireme with Archers and Diplomat
Barbs get Horsemen (hut by Persian Warriors?)
Literacy
-2400 Literacy->A, 25<-A (still Worshipful, what's this??)
-2350 Bribed Barb->NONE Trireme
-2300 Br Barb->N Archers
-2250 Mongols, Peace(M), tech->M, Ally(M), no Gift *
-2050 Another Barb Trireme +Dip,Arch
-2000 Hmmm, Barb Horsemen have survived an attack
-1950 "Barbarian uprising near Rome"
Barbs find Zimbabwe
The Republic
Barb Leader (100)
-1900 Barb Legion appears (hut by Zulus)
Revolution
-1850 REPUBLIC, di Archers, di Chariot, Br 2 Barb->N Horsemen

-1800 COLOSSUS

-1750 The Republic<->Mysticism(A), 50<-A
The Republic->M, Mysticism->M, 25<-M
-1700 Temple
-1650 2 Barb Triremes added +Dip,Arch
We Love , N-Elephant(h)
-1600 S4
-1550 Currency, S5, Barb Leader (100)
-1500 Barb Horsemen (A or M hut?), disappears when trying to attack
Barb Dip+2Horsemen
Marketplace, S6, B Leader (100), 100(h), Barb Horsemen(h)
-1450 S7, Barb Leader (100)
Carthagians suddenly appear on Foreign list - don't want to speak
-1400 We Love ends , 25(h)
-1350 Diplomat, N-Legion(h)
-1300 Philosophy -> Trade

-1250 Barb Trireme +Dip/Arch
Salt
-1200 Br Barb->N Trireme (sw sea), N-Settlers(h)
-1150 Wine, Barb Leader (100)
Trade->A, * Hey! We have no more Alliance! *
Warrior Code->M
4 techs->C, Ally(C), * no Gift *
-1050 Gold, Br Barb Trireme (sw sea)
-1000 Map Making
3 techs->A, Maps(A)
Map making->M, Maps(M), Map making->C, they stop talking
-975 Food, Barb Leader (100)
-950 S8
-925 Barb Trireme +Dip/Arch
Gems, N-Legion(h)
-875 Masonry, Zulus, Peace(Z),
traded for The Wheel and Horseback Riding, gave 1 tech
Ally(Z), Maps(Z), 150<-Z , Br Barb->N Settlers (164)
-850 Barb Leader (100), Barb Horsemen(h)
-825 2 Barb Legions (Persian hut?)
Food, Br Barb trireme (north ocean)
Salt to Tenochtitlan (d,215)

-800 Construction, Vikings, Map Making<->Iron Working(V), Peace(V),

2 techs->V
-775 Cloth
-750 Gold to Tenochtitlan (122)

3 techs to Zulus, no gift
3 techs to Vikings, Maps
3 techs to Aztecs, Maps
1 tech to Carthagians, Maps
2 techs to Mongols
-725 Barb Trireme +Dip/Legion!
Food
-700 Persians, they demand 250 -> War(P), Barb Leader (100)
-675 Mathematics, Wine to Carthage (d,314), Gems to Tenochtitlan (128)

-625 Wine, Astronomy, Br Barb->N Settlers (164)
3 techs to Zulus, 25<-
3 techs to Vikings
3 techs to Aztecs (they know have what we have)
Persians still demand 250
3 techs to Carthagians, * no gift *
3 techs to Mongols, <-100
-600 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY

(PYRAMIDS - Aztecs)
-575 We Love
-550 Aquaduct, S9
-525 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
-500 Food, University, Cloth to Zimbabwe (148), 3 Barb Horsemen(h)
1 tech to Zulus
3 techs to Vikings, Maps, * no Ally *
1 tech to Aztecs, Maps, * no Ally *
Peace(P), 3 techs to Persians, want 100 for it so * no Ally *
2 techs to Carthagians (still at war with the Persians!)
2 techs to Mongols (id!)
-450 University, Barb Leader (100), 50(h)
-425 Medicine
-400 * Alliance with Mongols dissolved without notification *
-375 S10, Barb Horsemen(h)
1 tech to Zulus
6 techs to Persians, Ally(P), * no gift *
-350 Seafaring, Wine to Teotihuacan (d,384)
-325 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Harbor
-300 Banking
-250 "Barbarian uprising near Rome"
Barb Leader (100)
Traded for Bridge Building(A), 2 techs to Aztecs, no Ally
3 techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
-225 Cloth, Engineering, Barb Leader (100)
-200 Monarchy(h)
8 (all) techs to Carthagians, 150<-C
-175 Food
6 techs to Mongols
-125 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Food, Sanitation

8 (all) techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
9 (all) techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
Traded for Polytheism (P) to avoid gift
9 (all) techs to Persians, 50<-P
-100 Barb Leader (100)
-75 Food
(MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY - Aztecs)
-50 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE

-25 Economics
1 S11, We Love , Wheat into Silk
2 (all) techs to Vikings
5 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
20 Sewer System, S12

4 (all) techs to Mongols, Maps
40 S13
60 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Invention, S14
80 Food, S15
100 S16, Barb Leader (100)
120 Stock Exchange, S17
140 Democracy, DEMOCRACY, S18
160 Food
180 S20, 2 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
3 (all) techs to Persians, <-50
4 (all) techs to Carthagians, <-200
200 Food, Theory of Gravity, S21

Cloth to Uppsala (d,392)
220 Barb Caravel +Dip/Leg
S22
240 Food, Chemistry, S23
260 We Love ends , br Barb Horsemen
280 Barbs Dip+2Horsemen
Food, Gunpowder
320 Food, Explosives
9 (all) techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
7 (all) techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
3 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
5 (all) techs to Persians, no Gift
5 (all) techs to Carthagians, 100<-C
7 (all) techs to Mongols, Maps
340 Barb Leader (100)
360 Metallurgy, Br Barb->N Horsemen, Br Barb->N Archers,
di 2 N-Legions
(GREAT LIBRARY - Persians)
380 Barb Caravel +Dip/Knights
ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE

400 Physics
420 Food
440 Magnetism, Barb Leader (100), Br Barb->N Horsemen
460 Food, Barb Leader (100), Br Barb->N Archers
480 Electricity, Br Barb->N Archers
500 LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP -> 3 NONE Engineers ,

Br Barb->N Archers
520 Refrigeration

Br Barb->N Horsemen
540 Barb Frigate +Dip/Crusaders
Supermarket
560 Steam Engine, Br 2 Barb->N Horsemen
580 Barb Leader (100)
600 Railroad
all techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Persians, Maps, 250<-P
all techs to Carthagians, Maps, 200
all techs to Mongols, Maps, no Ally
620 Food, Br Barb Legion
640 Industrialization
(STATUE OF LIBERTY - Aztecs)
660 Food
680 The Corporation
700 Barb Frigate + Dip/Cru
Food, We Love , Br Barb->N Knights
720 Refining, Br Barb->N Crusaders, S24
740 Food, S25
760 Steel, S26, Br Barb Crusaders
780 Food, S27, Barb Leader (100)
800 "Peasant revolt near Rome!"
Conscription, S28
820 Factory, S29, Br 2 Barb->N Musketeers, Barb Leader (100)
840 Feudalism, S30
860 Barb Frigate +Dip/Cru
We Love ends
880 Power Plant, Chivalry, Br Barb->N Crusaders,
Barb Leader, Br Barb->N Musketeers
900 Br Barb->N Musketeers, Barb Leader (100)
920 Leadership
Industrialization->P, 200<-P
Industrialization->C, Conscription->C, no Gift
960 Tactics, di N-Riflemen
980 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion, Automobile

1000 Mass Production
Conscription->P, 50<-P
Industrialization->Z, Maps(Z)
Industrialization->V, Maps(V)
Industrialization->A, Maps(A)
Industrialization->M, Maps(M)
1020 Barb Frigate +Dip/2!! Dragoons
Superhighways, Barb Leader (100)
1040 "Peasant Revolt" - 31 Barb Musketeers & Cannons
Electronics, di N-Riflemen
1060 Mass Transit, Grassland/r into Hills/r, di N-Riflemen
1080 Food, Barb Leader (100)
1100 sold Sewer System
Tactics->C, 225<-C
1120 Miniaturization, sold Aquaduct
1140 Offshore Platform
1160 Food, Computers, di N-Cavalry

1180 Barb Frigate +Dip/2Dra
Research Lab
1200 Food, Mobile Warfare, Hill/r mined
Tactics->P, our two allies are at war
1220 Food * does no-one want any commodity anymore? *
1240 Food, Robotics, Br Barb Trireme, Barb Leader (100)
1260 Food
1280 Barb horde reaches Zulu ground
Food, Flight, di N-Riflemen
1300 Manufacturing Plant, Plains into Grassland(s)
1320 Radio
1360 Advanced Flight
1380 (WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE - Aztecs)
1400 * 31 Barb Musketeers and Cannons cannot dent Zulu Phalanx defender
Rocketry
1440 Space Flight, Plains into Grassland/s
1460 APOLLO PROGRAM

1480 SSS, Plastics
1500 SSS
1510 SSS, Atomic Theory
1520 SSS, Plains into Grassland(s)
1530 SSS, Nuclear Fission, Barb leader (100)
1540 SSS
(ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO. - Mongols)
1550 SSS, Nuclear Power
1560 SSS
1570 SSS, The laser
(MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL - Persians)
1580 SSS
1590 SSS, Superconductor
1600 SSS
1610 SSS, Fusion Power, Plains into Grassland(s)
1620 SSS
1630 SSS
1640 SSM
1650 SSM
1660 SSM
1670 SSC
1680 SSC, Recycling, LAUNCH the "ATTILA"

1681 City Wall
1682 Aquaduct
1683 Environmentalism
1685 Solar Plant, sold Power Plant
1686 Communism
1687 SDI Defense
1688 SAM Missile Battery
1689 Airport
(MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION - Aztecs)
1691 HANGING GARDENS
1692 Genetic Engineering
1695 Stealth
1697 UNITED NATIONS
* It appears that we are at war with the Mongols without our knowledge! *
1698 Theology
1701 Combined Arms
1703 CURE FOR CANCER
1704 Amphibious Warfare
1706 (SETI PROGRAM - Aztecs)
1707 Guerilla Warfare
1708 JS BACH'S CATHEDRAL
1709 Sewer System, We Love
1710 Labor Union, S31
1711 We Love ends
1713 EIFFEL TOWER, Fundamentalism
1715 LIGHTHOUSE, We Love

1716 The "ATTILA" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Paul]

Thanks to the 15-1-1-1-1-1 spaceship needing 36 turns to get to AC this was the first OCC game where I got into the future techs.

Monarchy: -2250
Republic: -625
Democracy: 540

Colossus: -2200
Copernicus: -100
Shakespeare: -25
Newton: 340
Darwin: 880
Apollo: 1520

Trade routes: -950, -725, -700

Trade: -1500
Construction: -1350
Sanitation: 40
Refrigeration: 580
Automobile: 900
Computers: 1240
Space Flight: 1510

Size 11: -325
Size 19: 260

4000 BC Rome
3950 BC Hut: Horsemen
3850 BC Hut: Horseback Riding
3800 BC Hut: Archers
3750 BC Mongols: peace
3600 BC Hut: Wandering Nomad
3450 BC Aztecs: trade Alphabet; peace
3350 BC Hut: Ceremonial Burial
3200 BC Hut: 50 gold
3150 BC Code of Laws
2900 BC Hut: Barbarians
2850 BC Aztecs: alliance
2800 BC Persians: alliance; gift Masonry
2650 BC Hut: Warrior Code
2400 BC Hut: Archers
2350 BC Carthaginians: peace; tribute 50 gold
2300 BC Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Mongols: war
2250 BC Monarchy, change gov
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Persians: trade Map Making; gift 50 gold
2200 BC Colossus
Persians: share maps
Mongols: peace
2150 BC Aztecs: share maps
2000 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
1950 BC Aztecs: gift 100 gold
Persians: gift Currency
Carthaginians: tribute 25 gold
1900 BC Marketplace
1850 BC Aztecs: trade Writing
Persians: gift 100 gold
1800 BC Library
1650 BC Temple
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Persians: gift 50 gold
Mongols: tribute 25 gold
1500 BC Trade
1400 BC Build Copper Caravan
1350 BC Persians: gift 50 gold
Carthaginians: trade Construction
Mongols: tribute 50 gold
1250 BC Build Wine Caravan
1200 BC Aztecs: gift 50 gold
1100 BC Build Hides Caravan
Mongols: trade Wheel
1000 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
975 BC Hut: Engineering
950 BC Hides to Samarkand (demanded): 68 gold
925 BC Colosseum
Literacy
900 BC Aztecs: gift 25 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
Carthaginians: share maps
Mongols: war
875 BC Build Cloth Caravan
850 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
825 BC Build Gold Caravan
800 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
750 BC Zulus: war
725 BC Aztecs: trade Iron Working; gift 100 gold
Persians: trade Mathematics; gift 100 gold
Copper to Tenochtitlan (demanded): 136 gold
700 BC Aqueduct
Gold to Samarkand (not demanded): 32 gold
650 BC Mongols: tribute 50 gold
625 BC Build Wine Caravan
Republic, change gov
Start WLTCD, size 4
575 BC Cloth to Texcoco (not demanded): 84 gold
Hut: Invention
475 BC Vikings: trade Pottery; alliance; share maps; gift 100 gold
Persians: gift Polytheism
Carthaginians: alliance
Mongols: share maps
Barb Leader: 100 gold
450 BC End WLTCD, size 11
425 BC Aztecs: trade Bridge Building
375 BC Mysticism
Start WLTCD, size 11
325 BC Hut: 50 gold
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
275 BC Barb Settler killed by Aztecs
Vikings: gift 25 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
200 BC Sold Temple
175 BC Bribe Barb Settler
Aztecs: gift 200 gold
125 BC Astronomy
100 BC Copernicus' Observatory
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Wine to Susa (demanded): 255 gold
50 BC Philosophy, Medicine
25 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Carthaginians: gift 50 gold
1 AD Zulus: cease fire; share maps
20 AD Build Copper Caravan
Start WLTCD, size 12
40 AD Sanitation
60 AD Sewer System
120 AD Seafaring
180 AD Aztecs: gift 150 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
Hut: 50 gold
200 AD University
220 AD University
240 AD Barb Trireme bribed
Barb Leader: 100 gold
260 AD Banking
End WLTCD, size 21
280 AD Copper to Teotihuacan (demanded): 200 gold
300 AD Bank
Theory of Gravity
320 AD Hut: Barbarians
340 AD Isaac Newton's College
Gunpowder
360 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
380 AD Metallurgy
420 AD Navigation
440 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
460 AD Physics
500 AD Magnetism
520 AD Persians: gift Democracy, revolution
540 AD Gov: Democracy
560 AD Electricity
Gems to Texcoco (demanded): 303 gold
580 AD Refrigeration
600 AD Supermarket
620 AD Chemistry
660 AD Explosives
Aztecs: trade Economics
Persians: gift 100 gold
Mongols: alliance; share maps; gift 150 gold
680 AD Engineer
700 AD Steam Engine
Bribe Barb Frigate
Barb Leader: 100 gold
720 AD Engineer
740 AD Railroad
Start WLTPD, size 19
760 AD Stock Exchange
780 AD Industrialization
Persians: gift 100 gold
800 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
820 AD Corporarion
Aztecs: gift 25 gold
Mongols: gift 75 gold
860 AD Steel
880 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
End WLTPD, size 25
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Sold Sewer System
Bribe Barb Frigate
900 AD Automobile
920 AD Build Gems Freight
Sold Aqueduct
940 AD Electronics
Persians: trade Conscription
Mongols: gift 75 gold
960 AD Superhighways
980 AD Feudalism
1020 AD Chivalry
1040 AD Factory
1060 AD Leadership
1080 AD Power Plant
Barb Leader: 100 gold
1100 AD Tactics
Mongols: gift 100 gold
Gems to Bactra (demanded): 650 gold
1120 AD Machine Tools
Bribe Barb Frigate
1160 AD Miniaturization
1180 AD Offshore Platform
Mongols: 100 gold
1200 AD Build Gems Freight
Barb Leader: 100 gold
1240 AD Computers
1260 AD Research Lab
1280 AD Mobile Warfare
1320 AD Robotics
1340 AD Manufacturing Plant
1360 AD Flight
1400 AD Radio
1440 AD Advanced Flight
Zulus: trade Atomic Theory
1480 AD Rocketry
Gems to Arbela (demanded): 398 gold
1510 AD Space Flight
1520 AD Apollo Program
1530 AD Plastics
1550 AD Nuclear Fission
1580 AD Nuclear Power
1600 AD Laser
1620 AD Superconductor
1640 AD Fusion Power
1660 AD Communism
1690 AD Guerilla Warfare
1710 AD Labor Union
1720 AD Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1
1721 AD Carthaginians: cancel alliance
Recycling
1723 AD Mass Transit
Environmentalism
Zulus: war
1725 AD Solar Plant
1726 AD Aztecs: cancel alliance
Espionage
1729 AD Combined Arms
1730 AD Mongols: 1100 gold for war on Aztecs
1731 AD United Nations
1732 AD Stealth
Steal Theology, Genetic Engineering from Aztecs
1733 AD Steal Monotheism from Aztecs
1735 AD Fundamentalism
1736 AD Steal Amphibious Warfare from Zulus
1738 AD Future Tech 1
1740 AD Zulus: peace
1741 AD Future Tech 2
1744 AD SDI
Future Tech 3
1746 AD SAM
Aztecs: peace
1747 AD Future Tech 4
1749 AD Zulus: war
1750 AD Future Tech 5
1752 AD Aztecs: sneak attack
1753 AD Manhattan Project
1754 AD Future Tech 6
1756 AD Arrival at AC

[tonic]

I landed in 1696 with a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ship, a new PB for me. Much of the ease of this game came from the help of the Barbs-as-partners in the early exploration for huts and the supply of Barb-Leaders for the 100 gold and units as sentries. The two Barb settlers were used for basic terraforming early on and they were instrumental in my decision to get Leo’s – 3 None-engineers were too tempting not to mention the two Triremes to Transports! In any case there was a surplus of caravans as I got to 50+ shields after the building of the Factory and Power Plant. So I got Magellan’s as well.

I did not ally with the Vikings until the end of mid-game and never allied at all with the Mongols. This was one game where I did not have any problems with attacks by the AI civs in the end game. They seem to be busy fighting each other. It also helped to have the closest neighbour, the Mongols, as the weakest civ.

It was quite a challenge to visualise the early Roman map from the Barb map and vice versa. You get to feel sorry for the weak lot of the Barbs but it is exciting nevertheless to have the ships popping all over the different oceans.

2.42 Deity

AC: 1696

Monarchy: -1450
Republic: -725
Democracy: 140

Colossus: -2450
Copernicus: -600
Shakespeare: -400
Newton: 40
(Leo’s Workshop: 180)
Darwin: 780
(Magellan: 1080)
Apollo: 1420

Trade routes: -825, -725, -675

Size 12: -600
Size 21: -75

Trade: -1700
Construction: -1350
Sanitation: -325
Refrigeration: 500
Automobile: 780
Computers: 1120
Space Flight: 1400


3950 BC Hut=50 Rome founded
3900 BC Alphabet hut=horse (supported)
3850 BC Hut=currency
3750 BC Warrior built
3700 BC Hut=Pottery
3650 BC Hut=Archer
3550 BC Mongols: Peace
3500 BC Warrior built Hut=25 Hut=Archer
3450 BC Aztecs: peace + 25
3250 BC Persians: Peace + gift: Warrior Code
3200 BC Persians: exchange Masonry
3100 BC (Barb side: 2 horses + Barb leader) Hut=None Nomad!
3000 BC Hut=Alphabet
2950 BC Code of Laws Hut=50 Aztecs: Alphabet + 25
2900 BC Persians: alliance for war on Mongols
2850 BC Vikings: exchange Ceremonial Burial Peace
2700 BC Carthaginians: peace + 50
2500 BC Carthaginians: 50 Hut=writing BarbLeader=100
2450 BC Colossus
2400 BC Zulus: Peace + 50
2350 BC Persians: 50
2300 BC Temple Persians: 25
2250 BC Vikings: gift of Mysticism
2200 BC Persians: 25 Carthaginians: Alliance + 50 Hut=50
2150 BC Library
2050 BC Marketplace
2000 BC Hut=50
1950 BC BarbLeader=100
1750 BC Granary Aztecs: 50 Carthaginians: 25 Romans destroy Samarkand
1700 BC Hut=Trade Carthaginians: Trade + gift 50
1650 BC Wine caravan built Persians: 25 Aztecs: 25
1600 BC Bribe Barb Trireme (82)
1550 BC Monarchy revolution Hides caravan built Zulus: 50 Gift Monarchy to all (except Mongols) Carthaginians:25
Zulus: Gift Horseback riding Persians: 25
1500 Hides Caravan built Hut=25 Carthaginians: 25
1450 Govt. Monarchy Disband Warrior
1400 Aztecs: 50 Persians: 25
1350 Carthaginians: 50 Hut=Construction
1200 Persians: 50
1150 Colosseum Hut=50
1100 Aztecs: Embassy
1000 Aqueduct built BarbLeader=100
975 Literacy Carthaginians: 25
950 Dye caravan built Mongols: Peace + 100
900 Gold Caravan built
875 Persians: 50
850 Carthaginians: 25
825 Wine to Carthage (demanded)=200 Mongols: Horseback & Ceremonial Burial for Alliance
Start WLTCD
800 Republic revolution Aztecs: 50 Carthaginians: 25 Zulus: Republic & pay 50 for Alliance
750 Persians: exchange Iron Working + 50 Vikings: war
725 Govt. Republic BarbLeader=100 Hides to Malaca (demanded)=200
700 (Barb: Embassy with Carthaginians)
675 Mathematics Hides Persepolis (demanded)=204
625 Astronomy BarbLeader=100
600 Copernicus Pop=12 Hides to Utica (demanded)=215 Stop WLTCD
575 Philosophy get Medicine
550 Carthaginians: 75 Zulus: 75 Mongols: 25
475 Wheel Hut=50 BarbLeader=100 Bribe Barb Trireme Persians: 50 Zulus & Carthaginians: Wheel
Aztecs: Wheel, Alliance by declaring war on Mongols
450 Dye to Tenochtitlan (demanded)=272 BarbLeader=100 Disband supported Horseman
425 Engineering
400 Shakespeare’s Theatre Persians: 50 Carthaginians: 100 BarbLeader=100
375 Gems caravan built BarbLeader=100
325 Sanitation Start WLTCD Persians: 50 Carthaginians: 200
300 Sewer System
275 Copper to Zimbabwe (demanded)=408 Aztecs: 25 BarbLeader=100
250 University Sell Temple
225 built University Sell Colosseum Persians: 100 Aztecs: 25
175 Banking Cloth to Zimbabwe (demanded)=468 Carthaginians: 100 Zulus: 25 Persians: 50
150 Mapmaking Bank built
125 Vikings: war Zulus Persians Carthaginians: sharemaps
75 Pop=21 Stop WLTCD
50 BarbLeader=100
25 Seafaring Gems to Teotihuacan (demanded)=485

1 AD Sharemaps with all allies
25 Theory of Gravity
40 Isaac Newton's College Carthaginians: 50
60 Invention Wine to Bapedi (demanded)=340
80 BarbLeader=100
140 Govt. Democracy Zulus: exchange Gunpowder
160 Persians: gift of Polytheism
180 Leonardo's Workshop Economics
200 Persians: 150 Carthaginians: 50
220 Chemistry Bribe 2 Barb Settlers (->None Engineers!)
240 Aztecs: 25
260 Explosives Carthaginians: 150
300 Navigation Gems to Teotihuacan (demanded)=255
320 Carthaginians: 100 Persians: 200
340 Metallurgy
380 Physics BarbLeader=100 Aztecs: exchange Bridge Building
400 Bribe Barb Horseman Zulus: 25 Carthaginians: 150 Persians: 250
420 Magnetism
440 Aztecs: 50
460 Electricity Zulus war Vikings
480 Catharginians: 100 Persians: 150
500 Refrigeration Wine to Bapedi (demanded)=340
520 Supermarket Start WLTPD Persians: 50 Aztecs: 75
540 Steam Engine Carthaginians: 50
580 Carthaginians: exchange Conscription + 50
600 Railroad Gems to Texcoco (demanded)=236
620 Persians: 100 Carthaginians: 50
640 Industrialization Max size=27 End WLTPD BarbLeader=100
660 Barbleader=100 (Horseman vetted!)
680 Corporation Sell Sewer System
700 Bribe Barb Legion Zulus: gift of Monotheism Vikings: peace Carthaginians: 50
720 Steel Sell Aqueduct
740 Zulus: 75 Aztecs: 25 Carthaginians: 50
760 BarbLeader=100
780 Darwin's Voyage get Combustion Automobile Disband supported Rifleman
Gold to Texcoco (not demanded)=118
800 Electronics Superhighways Disband Diplo
Zulus: 75 Aztecs: 25 Persians: 100 Carthaginians: 50
820 Factory
840 Mass Production Carthaginians: 50
860 Power Plant
880 Feudalism Engineer built Persians: 100 Zulus: 150 Aztecs: 50
920 Chivalry Gems to Pasargadae (demanded)=620
940 Carthaginians: 150
960 Leadership Vikings: Alliance + 25
980 Zulus: 100 Aztecs: 150 Persians: 200 Carthaginians: 150
1000 Tactics BarbLeader=100 Mongols: Peace and give them all techs
1020 Carthaginians: 200
1040 Machine Tools Wine to Isandlwana (demanded)=655 Aztecs: 50
1080 Magellan's Expedition Miniaturization
1100 Wine freight built
1120 Computers Gems freight built BarbLeader=100 Carthaginians: 150
1140 Research Lab
1160 Mobile Warfare Gold freight built
1180 Persians: 25
1200 Robotics
1220 Zulus: gift of Atomic Theory
1240 Flight Wine to Kaupang (demanded) 392
1260 Zulus: 75 Persians: 50
1280 Radio Sharemaps all Gems to Susa (demanded) 368
1300 Offshore Platform Zulus: 75 Persians: 50
1320 Advanced Flight Vikings: 150
1340 Manufacturing Plant
1360 Rocketry Gold to Antioch (demanded)=282
1380 Barracks built
1400 Space Flight Armor built
1420 Apollo
1460 Plastics
1510 Nuclear Fission
1540 Nuclear power Aztecs (worshipful allies) capture Nishapur (closest Mongol city to me)
1570 Laser
1600 Superconductor
1630 Fusion Power
1660 Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1 SS Communism
1661 Nuclear Plant sell Power Plant
1662 SAM
1663 Espionage Mass Transit Carthaginians: alliance cancelled: peace
1664 Spy
1666 Guerilla Warfare
1667 Spy
1668 SDI
1669 Stealth
1680 Stealth Fighter
1672 Recycling
1673 Alpine Troops
1674 Recycling Center
1675 Spy
1676 Labor Union
1677 Mech Infantry
Zulus: offer of 1150 gold for war against Carthaginians- accepted
1678 Cruise Missile
1680 Environmentalism
1683 Solar Plant disband supported Engineer
1684 Combined Arms Stealth Fighter built Disband Horseman
1688 Amphibious Warfare Spy
1692 Fundamentalism
1696 Landed AC

[Smash]

I did not keep a full log.Its getting to be too tedious typing in all that gifting and trading.We should come up with an abbreviated log format.Sure would be nice if the game did it.I notice a casualty timeline in MGE so its probably possible.

Another fun game from Tom Demille.

Rehoming the dip and getting a supported horse turned out to be good.I was able to use the find city thingy and had all contacted by 2350bc.

This was a hut fest.I had 5 horses,5 archers,2chariots and the diplomat scouring the map for civs and huts before I knew it.Got 2 of 3 Monarchy pre-reqs for free(Alpha-hut--Burial-thru trade).I must have come close to clearing every hut on the board.It was nice to enter huts on move 2 fearlessly .Had more NON units than in any other OCC.Including a nomad.

The reds were a huge advantage.After 2850bc they were also finding huts for my Romans to open.I pillaged land,sabotaged cities you name it.I actually was ship chaining leaders back for summary execution.Brought in tons of gold.Later the reds took up positions in nearby mountains and hills to harass and stop enemy diplomats from getting to Rome.

After finishing the first round of land improvements I marched the red settlers closer to the Aztecs,then bribed them for 164 each giving me 3 NON settlers.Of course Leo's was in order.

I managed 5 alliances.Very lucrative.1 turn gifts brought in 950 gold.Only the Aztecs never came on board.

The highlights:

2.42 deity

AC-1666ad


Monarchy-2450bc
Republic-1250bc
Democracy-140ad

Collosus-2600bc
Cope’s-575bc
Shake’s-450bc
Sir Isaac-120ad
Leo’s Shop-340ad
Darwin’s-620ad
Apollo-1360ad

routes
1-1500bc
2-1450bc
3-1350bc

12-925bc
21-1ad

All others contacted-2350bc


Trade-2250bc
Construction-1950bc
Sanitation-300bc
Refrigeration-460ad
Automobile-720ad
Computers-1060ad
Space Flight-1340ad



[This message has been edited by Smash (edited September 11, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

Weird. It seems a big difference, 1666 or 1756, but actually we are all just a few turns apart, the main difference probably being good or bad luck with demanded commodities (and the occasional jumps in beaker requirements ) since in MP the MGE version is as friendly as 2.42. I am wondering though, will anyone try the Barb City approach?

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Paul]

Comparison table ready.