Is there a cure for pacifism?

Clear Skies · July 20, 2001, 07:53

Is the only cure for SMAX over-pacifism to throw yourself into the middle of a game with Yang, Miriam, Santiago, Cha Dawn and the aliens?

Please say there's another way. I am always overly pacifistic in my games, preferring to rely instead on diplomacy. I guess you could say I'm the personification of Eudaimonia - I shoot not to kill, but to subdue. I accept Truces the first time they are offered, hardly ever break treaties or abrogate pacts, and rarely if ever actually eliminate another faction unless they are at that stage where they will never again offer you a truce.

I really am an over-pacifist - my favourite game is to play as Aki against Roze, Lal, Dee, Morgan, Zakharov and Domai, or possibly Dawn.

Please help me become a rabid, slavering war-mongerer!

D4everman · July 20, 2001, 09:13

SMAC Fanatic,

I'm not a war monger...at least I don't think I am, but I'm usually involved in a few vendettas so heres a few rules I use....

Depending on the Tech asked for and whos asking, saying "no" or "When you pry it from my cold dead fingers" is a good way to start a war w/o ruining your rep. For instance, if Miriam or Yang demand that you give them Nonlinear Mathematics its a bad idea to give it to them. By the part of the game they're probably itching for a fight.

When you start a game if you're on a continent with anyone else take 'em out. You're going to have to compete with them for resources. Better to sweep them out of the way early. (This only works really early in the game. Later on after they get established its not too good of an idea to attack unless you're positive you can beat them pretty fast.

If anyone builds a sea base off of your coast take it. They'll get mad, but so what?

No TRUCES! The AI only offers a truce when it knows its bitten off more than it can chew. I only except truces when I'm in over MY head. (or when I have too many vendettas at once.

ACCEPT ONLY SURRENDER! I only accept a total surrender! Start a war with me and you'd better win, because I'll keep going until I've taken every enemy base or they surrender. Certain factions will surrender and backstab you later also...Miriam, Santiago and Diedre all have done that to me at one point. Once they break a surrender pact, they die. No mercy.

Always go for the capitol. In my most recent games instead of diving into a vendetta and hitting the closest targets, I've gone directly for the enemy capitol if it was feasible. The only exception is the Hive. By mid game if he's doing any good Yang has wayyyy to many bases to wade through. Its better to just hit him and keep hitting him.

Be a total *****. Can't take the base? Destroy the farms, mines, solar collectors, etc. Too expensive to mind control it? Sabotage every damn thing in there. Multiple times. Incite Drone Riots. Make the enemy sorry they ever screwed around with you.

The AI getting to big for its britches? Domai beat you to the Cloudbase Academy and now he thinks he's **** of the walk. Take it from him! Either by force or probes. If the AI starts a war with me they'd better really beef up security on the Merchant Exchange 'cuz i'm coming after it.

Wanna make the AI really mad? Use sea formers to lower his bases into the ocean! Use Tectonic missiles to raise the land and immobilize his navy! (This works great on Sven) Use fungal missiles for fun....they take a long time to build but if you have the production to spare build 'em, wait until you have five or six then burst them by the enemy capitol. Watch as fungal towers sprout worms and run rampant in his cities! Then stroll in and take the base when all of his defenders are dead or too weak to fight.

Hope that helps. I'm usually a builder myself, but I get ticked off when a faction threatens me...especially when I'm noble. The number one way to get into fighting a lot of battles though is to be No.1 on the power chart. Trust me, EVERYONE will want to fight you.

D4

death_head · July 20, 2001, 16:42

Ah, yes! The classic Type A personality...

I say, sell your techs for exhorbent amounts of cash, then probe them. Then again, just take their techs and probe the bases...

Blake · July 21, 2001, 03:56

Try playing as the Hive, you'll be running PS, planned, which'll get the other factions mighty riled' at you. (those SE tend to annoy Lal, Morgan, Diedre, Miriam, Zak, Roze, Dawn). In addition one of your best Values choices Wealth, annoys Santi, Sven. Leaving your potential friends Aki, Domai and the Aliens (which dont count).

Yang is one seriously unpopular guy, and his faction strengths are geared towards vendetta rather than peace.

Avenoct · July 21, 2001, 04:56

Great Post D4everman. Those are pretty much my exact rules of engagement in SP games.

Speaking of which, a good old fashioned MP game might cure the pacifist blues! Oh, Ned once told me to try turning off the Transcend and Diplomacy victories. That works well. But if you follow D4's advice, you'll be in for a great many battles. I am right now playing an SP, huge map, game as Deirdre in between working on my vision of SMAC 2, and after I finished off Miriam (on my continent and had the PTS, which fit my +6 EFF strategy nicely), forcing her back into the Mon-Soon-to-Die Jungle up cozy with Lal, I decided I needed one of those Monsoon Bases to launch probes and wars Vs. Zak. Zak actually beat me to a couple projects, and is doing quite well, but is terribly far away. So, while starting to give Miriam back her stinky zealot-hovels, I probed Lal..sabotaged one of his bases (we were pacted). It took a second probe before he finally said enough of that and declared Vendetta. With Miriam's bases to rest in, sipping Monsoon Coconut Margaritas, I've begun picking Lal apart. Note, he did nothing to me..he was just in the way! So go out there and have fun soldier! Wreak havoc upon the lands Smac Fanatic.

-Happy Crawlering,

Smack

Nadexander · July 21, 2001, 15:51

Quote:

[SIZE=1]
In a similar vein: "Hence one who attains power by favor of the people must keep the people always friendly to him, which will indeed be a simple matter, since all they ask is not to be oppressed; but one who, against the people [...] by favor of the nobles, must above all seek to win the friendship of the people, which will also be easy if he extends his protection to them." This one's easier, 50 EC's to the source of the source!

Ah. Machiavelli's The Prince

I use my 50 EC's to rush build a crawler.

-Nadexander

Clear Skies · July 21, 2001, 16:23

Well I've made my first step towards a more bloodthirsty me...

Still playing as Aki but running Green, so Morgan got a bit p'ed off. Got a truce first time around but he told me my 6-credit loan had grown into a 568-credit one! I wasn't having any of that and am now in the process of completely stomping him out. It's so easy - all he has are lasers and synthmetal against my chaos and silksteel!

D4everman · July 23, 2001, 01:32

SMAC Fanatic

Morgan often gets too big for his britches. He usually won't surrender easily either. It might be easier to just finish him off if he does surrrender, though. Its nice to have a submissive but Morgan usually falls prey to another faction and you'd have to "protect your investment".

By the way how did Morgan figure you owed him so much more money? What did the message say?

D4

Clear Skies · July 23, 2001, 06:55

Well, Zak beat me to Pre-Sentient Algorithms and was quite a way ahead of me building the HSA. I desperately wanted it, so I took out a 200-odd-credit loan from Morgan to rush-buy it. I was paying Morgan something like 5 creds a year for 50 years, and the Vendetta started when I only had 5 credits left to pay! We had a short Vendetta, then I signed a Truce, and he says something along the lines of:

"Since our Vendetta has been satisfactorily resolved, I will expect you to resume payment of your 5-credit loan. your loan has grown, with interests and (something) payments, to 568 credits."

I wasn't about to stand for that, so I demanded that he give me all his energy or I'd crush him like a bug. He declared Vendetta, so I stomped on him, ignoring all his surrender pleas.

D4everman · July 23, 2001, 08:27

"Since our Vendetta has been satisfactorily resolved, I will expect you to resume payment of your 5-credit loan. your loan has grown, with interests and (something) payments, to 568 credits."

Whoa! I've never seen that one, but then, I've only borrowed money from him once and that was way back when I first started playing. Morgan's an odd one. A lot of people have said that he's fun to play but I've gotten tromped every time I've tried it. The strangest part about Morgan is that in many of my games I'd leave him alone if he'd leave me alone. He seems to want to declare vendetta when he's no match for me.

I've never really played momentum style. I enjoy building up my empire and securing my borders, and seeing how much I can terraform...but always...ALWAYS....someone aggressive comes along. Usually Miriam.Its always best to take her out as soon as possible since its not too hard to get a tech lead on her. (What moron keeps giving her tech in my games? Some bozo gave her chaos weapons in one game and she was hell on wheels then. Took me a loooong time to kill her.) I have another rule that I may not have mentioned before. Never give tech to Miriam or Yang, especially one that will give them better weapons. What they'll do is conquer someone else and get extremely powerful...then they'll come for you.

D4

death_head · July 23, 2001, 11:38

Interest? I thought that the game just had the extra payback set in stone when the loan was made...oh well.