AI head start challenge game

[Smash]

Yes good job.Winning this is an accomplishment.

My game seems to have developed differently.The Yanks have been extremely aggressive with units.EVERY civ has.Especially those darn diplomats.

I saw I was getting nowhere so I went on the offense and jacked up taxes and built diplos.Bribed 2 good cities for a small fortune only to have them both bribed back the NEXT turn.ARGH!

At the start,I barely had laid down a city near that silk when it was bribed.I finally said "@#$% it" and went Democracy but that put a wrench into military efforts.The ais have gone Demo now also so bribing is gone.It was VERY expensive anyway.

I couldn't get established early and the downward spiral just continued after that.I been so swamped by units that I actually have to pre-work settlers inside cities to build irrigation!

I'm very close to restarting.Dam it.


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited October 09, 2000).]

[Steve Clark]

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 09-22-2000 04:13 PM kcbob - I think the MGE AI is too aggressive; for its own good!

It would only be too [fill in the blank] if you are making a comparison. Having only played MGE, I cannot accurately tell you that it is too aggressive or too passive. It is fairly dumb in any case and quite beatable even playing OCC.

[Smash]

Well,another city bribed away caused me to quit in a huff swearing never to play that #$%&*@# scenario again.

Less than an hour later,I was back at it

Did the exact same thing but no dips showed up this time.I explored more of the map by 1000bc than I did the whole game first time thru.It was pretty sad how little exploring I did in game#1.

420ad,12 cities flourishing and it is me doing the harrassing now.More cities to come but the riot factor is kicking in.

I lowered science in an effort to get the ai to slow down and it has worked quite well.Most science is coming from caravans and diplomats.Can't be more than 3 or 4 techs left to steal...er...discover and I will be all caught up.

Almost no improvements this time.I figured why build em to have them bought up?Just barracks and a temple here and there.Settlers and my best military units.Right now that is knights,muskets,catapults and diplomats.Not ICSing though.Not true ics anyway.I sent settlers with small armies to found chokepoint "colonies".Building the cities in such a manner as to have any enemy dips that sneak thru run out of moves just before getting next to it.

Looking very good.The only difference is not seeing those early diplomats.What a difference.

[Scouse Gits]

Gunpowder by 420AD, wow - good going!
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SG (2)

[Smash]

I stole it

This game ebb and flows.I captured 2 small American cities and they have a dozen more techs than me.Then I lost one of my "better" cities to the Vikings and the Spanish bribed another.Communism is a mile away.I'll probably end up stealing it eventually.Need it bad.

[DaveV]

420 seems really early for gunpowder to me, too. As of AD1040, I have embassies with 4 of the AIs, and none of them has even researched Invention yet (although the Vikings, who established an embassy with me, stopped by to brag about discovering Invention a while ago). I also still need someone to discover Democracy, which would shorten my path to Fundamentalism.

Edit: my fighting forces are Crusaders, Pikes, Catapults, with a few Explorers and Diplomats. Crusaders and Elephants are doing well because of the AIs' unaccountable failure to research Feudalism.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited October 12, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

In my game the Greeks had Chivalry from early on...interesting how the games vary so much!
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SG (2)

[DaveV]

Progress report: I finally went Fundy in 1540, which will take care of my two biggest problems, happiness and cash flow. With cannons and fanatics against musketeers or phalanxes, I should be able to push the AIs off my continent. Failure to count beakers resulted in a mid-turn revolt, and four of my size-5 cities starving down to size 4 . After some damage control, tech progress will continue, with the ultimate goal of SG2's favorite unit - the dreaded vet ironclad ! As of 1550, I have 47 cities, 5 of them liberated from the AI.

[Smash]

I mixed up my games from attempt 1 and 2.The above account is correct except I got GP in 840,not 420.In 420 I still had pikes.

Well...I'm in the tank again.I can't keep my cities from being bribed.All the way back to 5 again.Of course bribing cities got the ai my best military techs if they needed them.I'm more or less broke and have been all game.I'm starting to think only true ICSing will win this game.Or some strategies fron Xin Yu.I did a little "size 5ing" but its hard when you have to constantly build units.

This is the hardest civ game I have tryed.That includes a "blind" attempt at Red Front.It starts out pretty simple,but when the dips show up......wtf do you do????

[DaveV]

Smash - I haven't had much trouble with diplos. My border with the Spanish/Zulus is defended by three fortresses on mountains or hills. I kill diplos and catapults with my catapults before they can reach my cities. Countless 2-move units have impaled themselves on my defenders' pikes. For the borders with the Greeks and the Romans/Vikings, I have catapults waiting to pick off invaders while the invaders are in heavy terrain. None of the AIs has managed to mount a seaborne invasion, so my cities have stayed safe.

As of 1610, the Zulus have discovered Metallurgy, and the Americans have Steam Engine. So this one isn't over yet. I'm #1 in production, though, so I expect it just to be a matter of time. A lot of time - I've been averaging about 5 turns per hour.

[Smash]

The ai in my copy of MGE must be better than others

I started another(havn't given up on previous try yet) playing total ics.Not too much difference from my rapid expansion "normal" style except in 75BC I get the message from Rome "you are invited to gaze in awe at the discovery of Gunpowder" or whatever.Yikes!..yes thats right 75BC.Same game Yanks discovered Philosophy in 2900bc! I don't see much use in continuing this one....I would like to know how though.There are no huts.Did you give the ais lots of techs to start?

[Scouse Gits]

Smash - as much ICS as you can get away with - before unhappiness cuts in with the "magic number" of cities built. Then - Temples; I hate the things, but in this game you must have them with no HG.
I made my defence almost all "offensive". Very few Pikemen, mostly vet Chariots/Elephants in the early years. If you see anything move - kill it! The advantage of aggressive defence is that that you control the game. If you sit and wait for the AI to attack - sometimes they get lucky - and they stack diplos under their units.
Have a few explorers out diplo spotting. Build some diplos and steal anything you can. If you can hold your position long enough, eventually you will gain the key techs (via theft) to fight back. Until then hold your choke points and don't try to expand until success is certain. It is a ***** of a game!!
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SG (2)

[Ribannah]

Hmm, I somehow lost the saved game of my earlier efforts but started anew. It is the year 1800 and our only city "Castle Gobs" (size 19) is well defended by 6 Musketeers in surrounding fortresses. Vetted Phalanxes held out until 1750 when we stole Gunpowder from the Greeks.

It is getting extremely hard to find a route between the many aggressive Greek and American units to steal more techs, and we are still some 5 or 6 behind the Americans - they profit bigtime from our 3 trade routes to New Orleans - and much slower to do our own research.
The Romans are also ahead in tech but have no more cities to steal from, while the other tribes are starting to lag behind.

It doesn't look like we can win this one, but even surviving until the Americans land on AC would be a major feat! The Zulus control the UN btw, so that hope is gone.

- Rib -


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Ribannah]

OCC-Headstart
Deity
MGE

WE WON WE WON WE WON !!!!

We landed in 1959, two years ahead of the Americans, The Greeks were almost ready to launch as well, but spent too many units trying to get past all our mountain-fortressed Mech.Inf. The Roman Bombers failed as well. Here are the highlights of this epic game:

================================================== ==============
AC: 1959

Monarchy: -1450
Republic: -525
Democracy: 1620

Colossus: -
Copernicus: -
Shakespeare: -
Newton: -
Darwin: -
Apollo: 1915

Trade routes: 400, 480, 540

Size 12: 320
Size 18: 1660
Size 30: 1891

Trade: -275
Construction: -550
Sanitation: 1040
Refrigeration: 1860

Automobile: 1854
Computers: 1883
Space Flight: 1914
============================================

4000 BC - 1500 BC: isolation

-4000 Why do we have the feeling that this is NOT a good city site?
----- Castle Gobs founded by Ribannah
-3800 Warriors
-3750 Alphabet
-3450 S2
-3300 Writing
-2950 S3
-2850 Library
-2800 Pottery
-2750 Warriors
-2550 Swamp into Grassland(s)
-2450 Ceremonial Burial
-2300 Granary
-2250 S4
-2200 Warriors
-2000 Code of Laws
-1900 Temple
-1800 S5
-1700 Diplomat
-1550 Greek Horsemen appear, don't attack
-1500 Diplomat

1500 BC - 1 AD: skirmishes with Roman and Zulu units, Greeks are mostly parading

-1450 Monarchy, MONARCHY
-1400 Warriors, Z Horsemen
-1350 S6, R Horsemen etc.
-1300 Warriors
-1050 Mysticism, S7
-1000 Settlers -> S6
-875 Diplomat
-850 R Horsemen
-825 Bronze Working, S7
-750 Diplomat
-700 Phalanx - Greek have Elephants
-600 Currency, stole The Republic(R)
-575 S8, sold Granary, mined Oil
-550 Stole Construction(R), Revolution
-525 REPUBLIC, di 2 Warriors
-500 Colosseum, di Warriors
-375 Marketplace, Z Elephant -> Settlers vetted
-350 G Horsemen - ai! - don't attack all-out though, just the one mountain
-325 Phalanx, Z Horsemen -> N-Settlers vetted
-275 Trade
-250 2 Z Elephants, Z Hor, G Hor etc.
-225 R Horsemen, American Catapult appears next to N-Settlers
-200 Beads, 2 Z Elephants, A Chariot - pfft, A Cat moves away
-75 Wine
-50 Masonry, R Legion

1 AD - 1000 BC: Trade caravans reach passive Americans , Spanish replace Zulus and try to trample us, Phalanxes replace Warriors

40 Salt
100 Diplomat
140 Phalanx
200 Diplomat
240 We Love
260 Aquaduct, S9
280 S10
300 Mathematics, S11, stole University(R)
320 Diplomat, S12
340 We Love ends
380 Diplomat
400 Beads to New Orleans (154)
440 University
480 Banking, Wine to New Orleans (154)
520 Bank, Economics - hey! we're to first to discover this
540 Salt to New Orleans (160), S Knights
560 S Elephant etc.
580 Stock Exchange
600 Warrior Code
640 Diplomat
660 G Knights
680 Phalanx, Iron Working
740 Diplomat
800 Diplomat, Bridge Building - we are the first!
860 Diplomat
880 Last attack by the Zulus: Z Elephant
900 Phalanx
920 Literacy
960 Diplomat
980 "Romans are most advanced, we are 7th"
1000 Phalanx

1000 AD - 1750 AD: Diplomats do what they can, Greeks become annoying, defence ring is completed, Zulus build the United Nations

1020 S Knights, Catapult etc.
1040 Philosophy, stole Astronomy, Engineering, Navigation, Sanitation , Medicine (all A)
1060 Diplomat
1080 We Love
1100 Sewer System, S13, di Settlers
1120 Diplomat, We Love ends , di Warriors
1140 Granary
1180 Stole Horseback Riding(R)
1200 Diplomat
1240 S14, We Love , G Knights, G Elephant etc.
1260 S15
1280 Map Making, We Love ends
1300 Diplomat
1320 Circle of 6 fortresses (Phalanx+Dip) is now complete
1340 Diplomat, mining wheat, stole Feudalism(S)
1380 Diplomat
1420 Diplomat
1460 Diplomat
1480 "Zulus start United Nations"
1500 Diplomat, Seafaring
1520 Harbor
1540 Americans: "Explosives"
1560 Diplomat, S16, Wheat/r into Silk/r, Stole Chivalry, Polytheism, The Wheel(Vikings - that was all they had)
1580 Americans: "We have Metallurgy" - seems this will be over soon
1590 Food, stole Invention(V)
1620 Food, Democracy, DEMOCRACY
1640 Diplomat, We Love , stole Explosives(A), Zulus: UNITED NATIONS
1650 S17
1660 S18
1670 We Love ends
1680 Engineers -> S17
1710 Engineers -> S16
1730 City Walls
1740 Physics, Desert into Plains, stole Chemistry(R)
1750 Stole Gunpowder(G)

1750 AD - 1850 AD: we are catching up, Greeks double their efforts but Spanish become timid, Musketeers replace Phalanxes

1752 Musketeers, G Dip, stole The Corporation(A), di Phalanx, G Cat etc.
1754 G Dip, Embassy(G), S Cat,Kni etc.
1756 Musketeers, di Phalanx
1758 Oil into Wheat
1760 Musketeers, di Phalanx
1764 Musketeers, di Phalanx, A Dip (a few more follow)
1766 Wheat into Silk
1768 Musketeers, di 2 Phalanx
1770 Musketeers, di Phalanx
1772 Monotheism
1778 Cathedral, We Love
1780 S17
1782 S18, stole Magnetism(S)
1784 Diplomat, S19, stole Steam Engine(G)
1786 We Love ends , Hills into Plains
1790 Musketeers, Greek Ironclad kills Dip
1796 Railroad, Plains into Grassland(s)
1800 Coal, stole Leadership(G)
1804 S Elephant
1808 Plains into Grassland(s)
1810 Food
1816 Industrialization, Grassland/r into Hills/r
1818 Stole Metallurgy(G), 2 S Dips (that's it from them for a while), stole Communism(Z)
1822 Factory, Hills/r mined
1826 Gems, Americans: "Steel"
1830 Food
1832 Gems to Oviedo (d,164)
1834 Food
1836 Espionage, Coal to Baltimore (d,472)
1838 Gems
1840 Spy, stole Theory of Gravity(G) - spy captured
1842 Spy
1844 Spy
1846 Spy, Embassy(Z), Greeks: Railroad
1848 Spy
1850 Spy, Electricity

1850 AD - 1900 AD: route along the coast stays open for a long time: spies and freight get through, we challenge the Americans!, Alpine Troops replace Musketeers, Greeks continue assault from the west, occasional Roman units, we build lots of freight

1851 Spy, Embassy(R), Mountain into Hills, stole Conscription(R) - spy captured
1852 Spy
1853 Spy
1854 Spy, Embassy(A), stole Atomic Theory(G), Automobile(A) , Steel(A), 1 Spy captured, R Knights
1855 R Diplomat, stole Combustion(A)
1856 Superhighways, Americans: Nuclear Fission
1858 Oil, stole Electronics(A) - spy captured
1859 Stole Mass Production(A), Gems to Doesne (d,452)
1860 Hydroplant, Refrigeration, di Musketeers, stole Genetic Engineering(A) - spy captured , Americans: Nuclear Power
1861 Supermarket, Oil to Byzantium (d,336), stole Nuclear Fission(A), di Musketeers
1862 Mass Transit, stole Nuclear Power(A), stole Refining(A), G Cannon
1863 Cloth, stole Tactics(R) - we have all their tech now!
1864 Food, G Dragoons etc.
1865 Food, Embassy(S)
1866 Food
1867 Beads
1868 Food, Machine Tools, S20, Beads to Sicyon (d,150)
1869 Food
1870 Food, We Love , Cloth to Syracuse (d,285)
1871 Food, S21
1872 Food, S22
1873 Food, S23
1874 Food, S24
1875 Oil, S25, G Diplomat, sold Granary, R Cavalry etc., A: Tactics
1876 Gold, Miniaturization, We Love ends , di Musketeers
1877 Offshore Platform, We Love
1878 Barracks, S26
1879 Alpine Troops, S27, Oil to Byzantium (d,350)
1880 Alpine Troops, We Love ends
1881 Food
1882 Food
1883 Food, Computers, di Musketeers, Gold to Oviedo (112)
1884 Research Lab
1885 Alpine Troops, sold Barracks
1886 Hills into Plains, Z: Tactics, S: Fundamentalism - Ai!
1887 Food
1888 Food, We Love , A: Mobile Warfare
1889 Food, Flight, S28, di Engineers, stole Guerilla Warfare (A), Mobile Warfare(A)
1890 Fighter, S29, di Engineers
1891 Fighter, S30, sold Sewer System
1892 Oil, We Love ends , sold Aquaduct
1893 Beads
1894 Food, sold Cathedral, stole Labor Union(A), S: Tactics
1895 Food, A: The Laser
1896 Barracks, Radio, Beads to Oviedo (83), sold Colosseum
1897 Mech.Inf., G kill Spy
1898 Mech.Inf.
1899 Mech.Inf., sold Barracks, G Musketeers, stole The Laser(A) - spy captured , G: Espionage
1900 Food

1900 AD - 1959 AD: none will stop us now, right? Apollo is watching over us , wealthy Zulus start tech race too late, Americans almost beat us yet, Mech.Inf. defends against huge Greek army, several Spanish sorties and Roman Bombers - good thing they didn't act in concert

1901 Food, R: Miniaturization
1902 Food, Advanced Flight, S Explorer, S: Sanitation
1903 Food, 2 G Musketeers etc.
1904 Food, G Spy (more to follow, you'll see!)
1905 Food
1906 Food, R Cavalry, S Cavalry etc.
1907 Beads, A: Flight, G: Tactics
1908 Food
1909 Food, Rocketry, Oil to Dallas (d,646) (last one to get through)
1910 Food
1911 Food, Beads to Oviedo (81), A: Computers, now on 1 tech / 2,3 turns, G: Fundamentalism ...
1912 Food
1913 Food
1914 Food, Space Flight
1915 APOLLO PROGRAM, di 2 Musketeers
1916 S#01,
1917 S#02, di Musketeers, Spy
1918 S#03, S: Espionage, A: Radio
1919 S#04
1920 S#05
1921 S#06, di Fighter, A: Advanced Flight
1922 S#07, Plastics, R: Fundamentalism
1923 S#08, A: Rocketry
1924 S#09, di Alpine Troops
1925 S#10
1926 S#11, 4 G Spies!
1927 S#12, G Cav, G Alp -> destroyed Sicyon (soon to be replaced by Syracuse II though), R: Mobile Warfare, A: Space Flight
1928 S#13
1929 S#14, S: Flight, Greeks steal Plastics, A: S#01
1930 S#15, stole Theology (A)
1931 C#01, A: S#02
1932 A: S#03
1933 C#02, R: Computers, Z: Flight, A: Plastics, S#04
1934 C#03, Z,S: Radio
1935 C#04
1936 C#05, Z: Advanced Flight, A: Superconductor, C#01,S#05
1937 C#06, Z: Rocketry --- IN ONE TURN???? --
1939 4 Z Dip, 8(!!) G Spies - yeah they would love to have our tech , A: C#02, S#06-07
1940 M#01, 9(!!) G Spies, Z: Mobile Warfare, S: Advanced Flight, A: C#03, Stealth
1941 Fusion Power, stole Fundamentalism (G), R: Flight
1942 Stole Amphibious Warfare (G), G: Flight
1943 M#02, di Alpine Troops
1944 M#03, LAUNCH 15-3-3-1-1-1, R: Radio, A: Fusion Power
1945 Barracks
1946 Mech.Inf.
1947 Mech.Inf., A: M#01
1948 Spy, A: C#04
1949 Spy, A: C#05-06,S#08-09, S Bomber (Fighter defends)
1950 A: M#02,S#10-11
1951 SAM Missile Battery, G: Radio, A: M#03,C#07-10,S#12-18
1952 Mech.Inf., R: Advanced Flight, R Bomber, A: C#11-12, S#19-22
1953 A: C#13-14,S#23-25, Greeks steal Space Flight
1954 SDI Defence, S: Mobile Warfare, A: C#15-16,S#26-31
1955 Mech.Inf., A: S#32-39, LAUNCH, G: C#01-02,S#01-03, Advanced Flight, R Bomber
1956 Mech.Inf., R Bomber, G: C#03-12, S#4-16 (aren't they in a hurry)
1957 Mech.Inf., Z: Computers, G: C#13-15, S#17-23
1958 3 G Art, G Mar/?, S Art, S Cav (final battle )
1959 ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 104 (13%)

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
[This message has been edited by Ribannah (edited November 02, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Castle Gobs - GOBSMACKED!
Rib - that is a fantastic result - congratulations!
OCC with those conditions must be one for the "Hall of Fame".
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SG (2)

[DaveV]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 09-22-2000 07:49 AM I'll be stunned if anyone can manage an OCC win on this setup.

I'm stunned . Congratulations, Ribannah - I honestly thought it couldn't be done.

[Scouse Gits]

Brilliant, Rib - absobloodylutely brilliant!
:impressed:

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'."