Civ guy done good. Look for me on CNN.

OzzyKP · July 26, 2001, 19:41

I haven't posted much in the forums for awhile, but I just want to tell all the yanks out there to tune in this Sunday at 5:30 PM Eastern time. I'm going to be on CNN.

The topic is the drinking age, I am President of the National Youth Rights Association and we advocate lowering the Drinking Age.

All the non-Americans out there are very familiar with their low drinking ages and know how harmless they are. More deaths and alcoholism and problems are caused in this country by having a prohibitionist stance toward people under 21 drinking.

I will be facing off against a spokesman from MADD, it should be an interesting show.

-Alex Koroknay-Palicz a.k.a. OzzyKP King of the Metalheads
President
National Youth Rights Association
www.youthrights.org

SlowwHand · July 26, 2001, 20:04

That's really cool., Ozzy.
Big time exposure.
Good luck to you.

War4ever · July 26, 2001, 20:32

i will be watching.........good on you .....give a shout out to your fellow apolytoners who drink while they play

Rasputin · July 26, 2001, 21:32

hey give apolyton a big plug too !!! all the under age drinkers are here in OT usually

Caesar the Great · July 26, 2001, 23:12

I'll be sure to watch it....

SunTzu · July 27, 2001, 02:58

Cool lowering the drinking age will be awesome! lower it to 16years of age! we had problem getting beer tongiht for my party we had to end up asking some black people to buy the beer cause idon't havea a fake id and eveyrone who has a fake id was n't around, lower the drinking age now!!! NOW! NOW! WHOOOWAAA I'll tune in to CCNNN OZZY!

drake · July 27, 2001, 08:37

What a retarded issue to be fighting for...No offense Ozz man.

Lets hear your argument (briefly).

Whats your proposition for age anyway? 18? 16?

Lets make it 16 so a teen can get their drivers license and the right to drink alcohol on the same day! That should make for some cheerful stories

OzzyKP · July 27, 2001, 11:26

Well i don't have time to get into a big argument about this issue, but i'll lay out some points.

You can fight and die in the military at 18, but can't buy a beer till 21. Thats not fair.

Europe has virtually no enforced drinking age and has FAR fewer problems with alcohol than they do here.

The strict drinking age here doesn't teach responsible usage of alccohol it sticks to preaching abstinence ignoring reality.

People learn drinking in secret, basement keg parties rather than gradually at home with parents.

The Drinking Age is grossly ineffective, no one has trouble getting alcohol regardless of age.

Prohibition didn't work in the twenties and it isn't working now.

All the drinking age does is transfer fatalities from 18-20 to over 21. Just as many people die from alcohol now as before they raised the age.

The drinking age causes social segregation. If i want to go out to a club with some friends I can't because half of us can't get in.

That's it in a nutshell, and i DO have facts to back all that up.

We advocate lowering it to 18 (sorry Sun Tzu) but we also advocate a more relaxed atmosphere about alcohol for all ages.

drake · July 27, 2001, 13:04

Ok keeping it short (this should probably be in the ot btw)

Quote:

You can fight and die in the military at 18, but can't buy a beer till 21. Thats not fair.

A better argument is that you can drive at 16, (which is really a MUCH bigger responsibility than drinking alcohol), but have to wait till 21 to go to a club and have a few drinks. Some kids are too immature to handle alcohol at 18, but I'd guess a greater percentage of teens are too immature to handle driving at 16.

Quote:

Europe has virtually no enforced drinking age and has FAR fewer problems with alcohol than they do here.

Comparing european teens to american teens is like apples and oranges. American teens are in general, much more irresponsible and careless.

Quote:

The strict drinking age here doesn't teach responsible usage of alccohol it sticks to preaching abstinence ignoring reality.

What is reality? There is nothing wrong with alcohol abstinence. It makes for a healthier person in most cases. Alcohol for teens is mostly about acceptance and fitting in, not because they want to enjoy it. If drinking wasn't "cool" in high school and college, kids wouldnt even care about it. But apparently, you think it's become so infused into growing up, that trying to prevent it is futile. Maybe you're right, but keeping alcohol out of some irresponsible kids hands is a good thing if you ask me. If your argument is that, why should one bad apple ruin it for the whole bunch, then you're going on an uphill battle. There are 16 year olds that are more equipped to handle responsibility than 18 and 21 year olds, yet, through your proposition, they are neglected from the ability to buy alcohol. Why? See where I'm getting? Though it's not fair all the time, for everyone, many priveledges come with age. It just makes things much simpler so that all the bad appes are covered. Yes the good ones suffer because of it, but you can't start making laws that cater to individuals.

Quote:

People learn drinking in secret, basement keg parties rather than gradually at home with parents.

Thats obviously an assumption. Not a rule certainly. And I'll ask, what is necessarily wrong with a keg party? Cannot people at a keg party be as responsible as they would in their own parents homes? Yes parents need to teach their kids responsibility, but in the end, a kids gonna do what a kids gonna do. A level headed kid will know what to do in either situation. Kids are going to keep secrets from their parents forever, thats not changing. Whether it be drugs, girls, boys, alcohol, whatever, there's going to be some things that are not shared. This can be, but isn't necessarily a bad thing. Parents need to help their kids to learn, but kids also need to learn some things on their own.

Quote:

The Drinking Age is grossly ineffective, no one has trouble getting alcohol regardless of age.

It gets easier as you get older yes, especially in a college setting, but saying it's in-effective isn't totally accurate. I know it isn't because I sat many a night in college hoping to find someone to buy, but couldnt. Certain areas of the country are tougher in this respect than others.

Quote:

Prohibition didn't work in the twenties and it isn't working now.

This isnt really comparable, as complete stoppage of alcohol sales and selling alcohol on an age basis are really two very differnt things. And back then, since we're talking history, 18 year olds were adults. Today 18 year olds are still kids for the most part. It's a different time. So lets not be comparing the two. Think of other policies and lwas in the 20's and you'll know what I'm saying.

Quote:

All the drinking age does is transfer fatalities from 18-20 to over 21. Just as many people die from alcohol now as before they raised the age.

This I'd love to see some facts in.

Quote:

The drinking age causes social segregation. If i want to go out to a club with some friends I can't because half of us can't get in.

Then go somewhere else where you can all hang out perhaps? Don't use that argument, it'll get you nowhere.

Well, hope I fired you up for your debate oz. Best of luck, even though I don't think it's a cause worthy of being fought.

General Maximus · July 27, 2001, 15:14

i always wanted to be 21, so i could drink legally. when i turned 21 i drank my share, and yours. i was always responsible, no matter my age. now i'm 27 and i still go to clubs and bars, but i drink lite, and i'm the designated drivers always.(by drinking lite i mean one or two mudslides over 5 hours)

other wise i don't drink anymore, having a goal of being 21 to drink is not an intelligent choice for this country. i never really liked having age restrictions on things.

you should need to take an IQ or common sence test when you reach that age, in order to prove your maturity. there are MANY 16 olds driving 2 ton killing machines around, but hey they're 16 years old, they can handle it right? not likely...and there are 70 year old people who shouldn't drive either, but thats another debate entirely.

age should have nothing to do with driving, drinking, or serving in the armed forces, intelligence and maturity should. that would be an ideal world.where stupid people wouldn't drive and/or drink, or drink and drive.

i still think mature people should be rewarded with further responsiblities, and stupidity should be painful.

good luck Oz, i'll be cheering for you....will they take calls from viewers on this topic? if so, we should clog the phone lines with positive Oz messages

The Capo · July 27, 2001, 15:28

He's a tool.

cavebear · July 27, 2001, 19:21

I won't argue about the view you are supporting, but I will say that I fought the same fight in 1968 when I was 18. We could be drafted and sent off to Vietnam to killed or be killed, yet we couldn't legally have a beer with our friends when we left. It seemed rather unfair.

Zylka · July 27, 2001, 20:04

Good job Ozz, I'll be watching. Here's to lowering it to 18

and as always...
Cheers

DarkStorm · July 27, 2001, 20:58

To your own self be true Ozzy, I'll be watching from up north here were you can drink at 19....seems to work here, I always thought 21 was a little escessive, but then it keeps the young american tourists coming north :-)

Caesar the Great · July 27, 2001, 22:02

I definitely know a lot of 16 year olds who shouldn't be driving, hell I'm 16 I don't even have my permit yet, I'm in no rush to drive, sure if you live in some rural area 16 or even younger its necessary to drive, but in a suburban neighborhood like this one, there are too many drunk 16 and 17 year olds driving cars like maniacs, driving needs to be more restricted for those under 18 or with any driving record, punishments for serious offenses more severe and it should be harder for a person to get his license and to keep.

I'm more concerned with drinking and driving than other things involving drinking. 18 or 21 isn't going to make too much of a difference a lot of bars around here will serve 18 year olds drinks, after checking id. Generally American teens are less responsible and more reckless than those in Europe, but there is also a serious deficiency in parenting, some parents have no idea how to raise a kid, especially in this day and age and in this country most evidently. Parents try to force their values on their children and that just doesn't work, lets see my parents forced me to be confirmed, I haven't even beleived in god for 4 years now. My mom tries to lock me in the house all day giving me no freedom to let me go do and experience the world. She tries to teach me her values of hard work, good college, good job and lots of money, but thats just not the way it works anymore (well not exactly).

General Maximus · July 29, 2001, 17:54

Damn!!! they didn't give you much time Oz!!

you barely had time to argue your point, and i like the way you shot down the study on 10th graders....the look on her face was priceless!

good job, and goodluck in your big job!

cavebear · July 29, 2001, 22:09

1. It was rather interesting just to see a fellow Civver in real life (well, TV life).

2. I thought you did well to keep the focus on "initial drinking age is irrelevent".

3. Effective refutation of the study she set so much store by.

4. The camera made you a bit nervous, though, didn't it?

5. Your appearance on camera is serious, thoughtful and academic. Don't know if that is good or bad, but that was my impression.

6. I had hoped you might be able to get in the suggestion that it is our social prohibition against social family drinking of beer and wine that causes such a drastic change at legal drinking age, but I didn't see where you had an opportunity to bring that up either.

7. I think from now on you will be "Mr" OzzyK to me. A tip of the hat for a good job under stressful circumstances!

Hydey · July 30, 2001, 05:53

Ok thats done, now everyone grab a beer and get on with playing Civ.

drake · July 30, 2001, 08:48

Sounds like it went well. Congrats on a job well done. Though I definetly disagree with you, I respect the fact that you're fighting for what you believe in Oz. Most people don't have the courage to stand up and speak like you did.

reds4ever · July 31, 2001, 10:25

hi oz, being from enland i did'nt get to see you moment of glory, but i feel the issue regarding the drinking age boils down to at what age a society confers full citizenship on it's members, in england we have the same sort a situation where you can drive at 17, married 16, vote 18, drink 18 etc.

perhaps the silliest one over here is the fact you can vote at 18 but not be voted for until you're 21, so are you part of the democratic process or not?

there should be one age for every right, it's just a matter of deciding that age as most of the decision makers can't even remember being 18

cavebear · July 31, 2001, 23:01

Reds - I disagree mildly. Why should we become suddenly skilled at activities invlving different intellectual, physical, and psychological skills at the same time? I think it makes sense to decide on each thing as a separate matter. Note that I am not saying what those years should be, just suggesting that they should be determined individually.

SunTzu · August 1, 2001, 02:07

I missed it

I feel that the drinking age should be 16, drive at 16 and drink at 16 goodie

the drinking age shoudl be 18 seriously. I'm 17, about to turn 18. I can barely pass as a 21 year old. I lost my fake id

So i gotta go 'w/o an ID'

I'd like to vote now. And i'd like to vote when i was 16 cause i mean damn, i watched all of the politics and stuff ect......GO BUSH!

Rasputin · August 1, 2001, 06:42

hey simply make driving/voting/sex consent/drinking age all the same. say set it for 30 !!!!!

well done ozz. now back ot the GAMES