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Old May 21, 2000, 13:27   #31
Paul
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Interesting map. It really needed that road at the south pole or else we would probably never have been able to gexplore around the whole world.

Tom, interesting choice to build a smaller ship to shave of some years. Too bad I didn't think of that. Now I "only" landed in 1565.

I saw that the map had mostly land and lots of river squares so I built a second Settler when I got Republic to give me some help with improving the land.

Here are my highlights and my log:

Monarchy: -2250
Republic: -725
Democracy: 60

Colossus: -2650
Copernicus' Observatory: -475
Shakespeare's Theatre: -250
Isaac Newton's College: 180
Darwin's Voyage: 600
Apollo Program: 1120

Trade: -1750
Construction: -2000
Sanitation: -375
Refrigeration: 420
Automobile: 620
Computers: 880
Space Flight: 1100

Trade routes: -800, -800, -475

Size 12: -500
Size 21: 40


4000 BC Hut: Currency
Karakorum
Russians: trade Horseback Riding; alliance
Greeks: alliance
Americans: trade Alphabet, Masonry, Writing; alliance
Vikings: trade Warrior Code; alliance
Babylonians: alliance
Spanish: alliance
3800 BC Warrior
3750 BC Hut: Barbarians
3600 BC Hut: Wheel
3550 BC Russians: gift 25 gold
3400 BC Americans: gift Iron Working
Hut: 50 gold
3250 BC Russians: gift 50 gold
3150 BC Hut: Chariot
3050 BC Hut: Chariot
3000 BC Russians: gift 50 gold
2950 BC Hut: Map Making
2900 BC All: share maps
2850 BC Hut: Horsemen
2800 BC Hut: 50 gold
2750 BC Americans: gift 50 gold
2700 BC Hut: Code of Laws
Hut: 50 gold
Disband Warrior
2650 BC Colossus
Hut: 25 gold
2550 BC All: share maps
2450 BC Babylonians: gift 100 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
2400 BC Library
Monarchy, revolution
Babylonians: trade Mathematics
2350 BC Hut: Literacy
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Barbarians
2250 BC Gov: Monarchy
Hut: Horsemen
2150 BC All: share maps
2100 BC Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Horsemen
2050 BC Marketplace
2000 BC Hut: 25 gold
Hut: Construction
1950 BC Temple
Hut: Horsemen
Hut: Legion
Hut: Bridge Building
Vikings: trade Feudalism; share maps
All: share maps
1900 BC Hut: Legion
1850 BC Hut: Mysticism
Hut: Chivalry
1800 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Barbarians
1750 BC Russians: trade Trade
Babylonians: gift 50 gold
1700 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Engineering
1650 BC Build Hides Caravan
1600 BC Hut: Legion
1550 BC Hut: Barbarians
Hut: 25 gold
1500 BC Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: trade Pottery
1450 BC Build Silk Caravan
Hut: Astronomy
1400 BC Hut: 25 gold
1350 BC Trireme
1300 BC Hut: Invention
1150 BC Build Coal Caravan
Hut: 100 gold
Hut: 25 gold
1100 BC Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Spanish: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 25 gold
Greeks: gift 50 gold
1050 BC Build Hides Caravan
Hut: 25 gold
Hut: 25 gold
975 BC Colosseum
Hut: Barbarians
Hut: Legion
950 BC All: share maps
825 BC Aqueduct
800 BC Republic, revolution
Hides to Washington: 53 gold (not demanded)
Silk to Washington: 159 gold (demanded)
775 BC Hut: Barbarians
725 BC Settler
Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 4
675 BC Hut: 50 gold
Hut: 50 gold
Spanish: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 75 gold
Greeks: gift 25 gold
600 BC Greeks: gift 50 gold
575 BC Russians: gift 100 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
525 BC Hut: Barbarians
500 BC End WLTCD, size 12
Sell Colosseum
475 BC Copernicus' Observatory
Philosophy, Medicine
Coal to Washington: 124 gold (not demanded)
Hides to Washington: 124 gold (not demanded)
Sold Temple
425 BC Build Dye Caravan
375 BC Sanitation
Russians: gift 150 gold
Babylonians: gift 25 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: trade Seafaring
325 BC Vikings: gift 25 gold
300 BC Hut: Knight
Hut: Barbarians
275 BC Americans: gift 100 gold
Russians: gift 50 gold
Vikings: cancel alliance
250 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
University
225 BC Russians: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 25 gold
Greeks: gift 25 gold
Start WLTCD, size 12
200 BC Sewer System
Hut: Knight
125 BC Theory of Gravity
Russians: gift 50 gold
Babylonians: gift 25 gold
Americans: gift 25 gold
Greeks: gift 25 gold
100 BC University
75 BC Hut: Knight
25 BC Banking
40 AD Bank
Russians: gift 100 gold
Vikings: alliance; gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 250 gold
Greeks: gift 50 gold
End WLTCD, size 21
60 AD Democracy, revolution
Gov: Democracy
100 AD Chemistry
Americans: trade Gunpowder
Russians: gift 100 gold
140 AD Explosives
Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Greeks: gift 100 gold
160 AD Russians: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 250 gold
Hut: Knight
180 AD Isaac Newton's College
Economics
Hut: 25 gold
200 AD Russians: gift 100 gold
220 AD Stock Exchange
Navigation
260 AD Build Gold Caravan
Physics
Vikings: gift 50 gold
280 AD Russians: gift 100 gold
300 AD Harbor
Magnetism
All: share maps
340 AD Metallurgy
380 AD Engineer
Electricity
Russians: gift 100 gold
Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Vikings: gift 100 gold
420 AD Refrigeration
Americans: trade Steam Engine; gift 250 gold
440 AD Engineer
Disband Settler
Disband Trireme
460 AD Engineer
Railroad
Start WLTPD, size 18
Dye to Babylon: 261 gold (not demanded)
480 AD Russians: gift 100 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 200 gold
Greeks: gift 50 gold
500 AD Supermarket
Industrialization
520 AD Americans: gift 50 gold
Greeks: gift 25 gold
540 AD Corporation
Hut: 50 gold
580 AD Steel
600 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
620 AD Automobile
Russians: gift 100 gold
Babylonians: gift Conscription
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
640 AD Superhighways
660 AD Electronics
680 AD Factory
700 AD Leadership
End WLTPD, size 29
720 AD Build Oil Freight
Tactics
740 AD Machine Tools
Russians: gift 150 gold
760 AD Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 200 gold
Greeks: gift 25 gold
780 AD Miniaturization
820 AD Mass Production
840 AD Sell Sewer System
Russians: gift 50 gold
Babylonians: gift 100 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 150 gold
Greeks: gift 75 gold
860 AD Americans develop Flight
880 AD Computers
Sold Aqueduct
900 AD Research Lab
Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 150 gold
Greeks: gift 350 gold
920 AD Mobile Warfare
940 AD Offshore Platform
960 AD Robotics
Americans: trade Flight; gift 50 gold
980 AD Power Plant
Babylonians: gift 50 gold
Vikings: gift 100 gold
1000 AD Radio
Oil Freight to Athens: 253 gold (not demanded)
1020 AD Manufacturing Plant
Advanced Flight
1040 AD Russians: gift 50 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 150 gold
1060 AD Rocketry
1100 AD Space Flight
Gold to Ellipi: 856 gold (demanded)
1120 AD Apollo Program
1140 AD Plastics
1180 AD Atomic Theory
1220 AD Nuclear Fission
1260 AD Nuclear Power
1300 AD Laser
1320 AD Hut: 100 gold
1340 AD Superconductor
1380 AD Fusion Power
1420 AD 15 Structurals
Recycling
1460 AD Environmentalism
1500 AD Communism
1520 AD Guerilla Warfare
6 Components
1540 AD Labor Union
1550 AD Launch
1551 AD Solar Plant
Stealth
1552 AD Mass Transit
1553 AD City Walls
Espionage
1554 AD SAM
1555 AD Combined Arms
1556 AD SDI
1557 AD Coastal Fortress
Genetic Engineering
1558 AD Barracks
1560 AD Amphibious Warfare
1562 AD Polytheism
1564 AD Monotheism
1565 AD Arrival at Alpha Centauri
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Old May 21, 2000, 14:07   #32
vik
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Well, if I could use only one word to describe this scenario, I would choose “exhausting.” In this scenario, there were plenty of opportunities to slip up and lose a turn here or there due to not paying attention. I was glad I was able to maintain a 2-turn discovery rate from about the time I built INC in the BC years up until the time I no longer wanted to research anything. But I still could have improved. I missed out a turn here or a turn there on incremental rush-buying. I seemed to have a little more need for money than others so far, but I probably could have milked the AI for more cash. I don’t think I got to as many huts as others, either, because I was just slow, and I didn’t explore much with boats. Many of the first Hut-units I got came late and were slow units, so it took me some time. I also got screwed by finding Philosophy in a hut because apparently you get no bonus tech with it. I also shaved off about 4 turns near the end by not researching mobile warfare and robotics. I figured I could get by without a manufacturing plant, but it almost cost me. I toyed around with building Leo’s just to get that NONE engineer, but I decided against it.

Log highlights (Deity, v2.4.2):

Colossus: 2350bc
Copernicus: 700bc
Shakespeare’s: 450bc
Isaac Newton’s: 125bc
Darwin’s: 600ad
Apollo: 1120ad

Monarchy: 2650bc
Republic: 925bc
Democracy: 25bc

1st Trade: 700bc
2nd Trade: 500bc
3rd Trade: 200bc

Size 12: 750bc
Size 21: 225bc

Trade: 1750bc
Construction: 1550bc
Sanitation: 550bc
Refrigeration: 140ad
Automobile: 600ad
Computers: 780ad
Space Flight: 1100ad

Hut Data (51 total huts tipped):
Number of Huts with Knowledge: 15
Number of Huts with Barbarians: 9
Number of Huts with Gold: 16 (for 900 gold total)
Number of Huts with 4-legged units: 5
Number of Huts with 2-legged units: 6

Total # of barb leaders killed: 1 (for 150 gold)

4000bc- I take a deep breath, and move my trireme south. Oops, wrong scenario.
Lots of horses. I wonder if I should delay building my city while they explore a bit…
Hut- Chariot; Allied with all AI’s except the Greeks. Not even Greek peace. No gifts
Oh, well. Ulaan Baatar founded in 4000bc by War4never
Actually, I’ll call my city the Apocalypse, since I started with “Four Horsemen”
3950bc- building colossus, researching alphabet; settler moves to mine wheat
3750bc- discovered alphabet, researching code of laws. Hut-not tipping till later
3700bc- hmmm. A big road down south. I think I will follow it.
3350bc- code of laws discovered, researching monarchy
2800bc- monarchy discovered, REVOLT, researching writing
Greeks- gave all knowledge, alliance, no gift
Americans- gave all knowledge, given Masonry
Spanish- gave all knowledge, no gift
Vikings- gave all knowledge, got Warrior Code
Babylonians- gave all knowledge, no gift
Russians- gave all knowledge, got Horseback Riding
Hut-Hut-Hut: Fuedalism, 50gold, 50gold
2650bc- monarchy established; Hut-barbarians (kilt’em)
2600bc- Hut-barbarians (kilt’em)
2500bc- I am the most powerful civilization in the known world. Hut-Chariot
Trade Allies for writing, currency, and mathematics; get 150 gold in gifts
2450bc- researching trade
2400bc- kilt a barb leader
2350bc- colossus built, building library
2250bc- hut-barbarians (they ran away)
2200bc- library built, building marketplace
2100bc- Hut-The Wheel; dump all knowledge on Allies; 50 gold from Americans
2050bc- Hut-100gold
2000bc- marketplace built, building temple
1950bc- Hut-knights; Hut-Iron Working
1850bc- Temple built, building diplomat
1800bc- Hut-50gold
1750bc- Trade discovered, researching literacy; switched from diplo to caravan
1600bc- caravan built, building another; Hut-100gold
1550bc- Hut-construction
1500bc- caravan built, building another
1400bc- Hut, barbs (they run away)
1300bc- Hut, Legion; Hut-Legion
1250bc- Hut, 100gold
1200bc- Babylonians: get map-making, dump knowledge, trade maps, 150 gold
Russians: get Mysticism; dump knowledge, trade maps, 100 gold
Vikings: get Chivalry, dump knowledge, trade maps, 100 gold
Spanish: get Polytheism, dump knowledge, trade maps, 50 gold
Americans: dump knowledge, share maps, 25 gold
Greeks: dump knowledge, share maps, 25 gold
It seems I am playing on a world that is shaped like a pencil
1150bc- third caravan built, building colosseum; Hut-25 gold; Hut-Knights
Hut-Astronomy; I’m tempted to build caravans now…
1100bc- Hut-bridge building
1000bc- Colosseum built, building aqueduct
975bc- Hut, literacy (thank goodness); Hut-philosophy
950bc- Hmmmm, I was the first to philosophy, but no bonus tech. That sucks.
Hut, 25 gold
925bc- discovered Republic, REVOLT, republic established, researching university
Wow! Hut-Medicine; Get pottery and 300 gold from my allies
900bc- Started Weluv; 2 Huts, 50 gold each
825bc- Aqueduct built, building caravans
775bc- Hut, Seafaring
750bc- WeLuv halted at population 12; Hut-University; 350 gold in allied gifts
725bc- researching engineering; Hut-Chemistry; buying copernicus
700bc- Copernicus’ Observatory; gonna squeeze in the university before Shake’s
Hides to Athens (undemanded) 294 gold
675bc- Engineering discovered, researching Sanitation; university built, building caravans
650bc- Dumped knowledge, traded maps with all, got a total of 50 gold
600bc- Hut-Monotheism (yuck!)
575bc- Hut-Legion (I wish I could get some 4-legged units)
550bc- Discovered sanitation, researching theory of gravity
500bc- Silk caravan to Athens (nondemanded) 298 gold
475bc- Hut, 50gold; 200 gold from allies
450bc- Shakespeare’s built, buying sewer system; theory of grav disc; researching banking
cranking up weLuv
425bc- Temple sold (colosseum sold on prior turn); sewers built, building caravans
Hut-barbarians (at least, it said barbarians, but I see none)
Another Hut, more barbarians (this time they’re there - 3 horseman surrounding my legion)
400bc- Hut, navigation
300bc- discovered banking, researching physics; dumped all knowledge; 150 gold total in gifts
275bc- acquired Physics from russians
250bc- researching magnetism
225bc- halted WeLuv at pop21
200bc- discover magnetism, research economics; hut-crusaders; Hides-Washington (non-demand) 175gold
150bc- hut, crusaders; gifts total 300 gold; completed INC
125bc- Isaac Newton’s College built; economics discovered; researching invention; building bank
hut-crusaders
100bc- Hut-50 gold
75bc- bank built, building stock exch; invention discovered, researching democracy; hut-legion
gifts total 225 gold
25bc- democracy discovered; REVOLT; democracy established; researching gunpowder
1ad- stock exch built, buildling harbor
20ad- gunpowder, researching metallurgy
40ad- harbor built, building diplomat
60ad- metallurgy discovered, researching electricity; hut-50gold; traded maps with everyone
80ad- diplomat built, building galleon
100ad- electricity discovered (before anyone builds the Great Library), researching refrigeration
Give AI all knowledge except invention (ha ha ha)
120ad- galleon built, took the dip to explore; building caravans
140ad- refrigeration discovered, researching explosives; hut-barbs (kilt’em); 375 gold from allies
160ad- I am the 4th largest civilization on the planet.
180ad- discovered explosives; researching conscription
220ad- discovered conscription, researching leadership; hut-riflemen
260ad- discovered leadership, researching tactics; hut-50 gold; get 225 gold from allies
280ad- hut-50gold
300ad- tactics discovered, researching atomic theory
340ad- atomic theory discovered, researching steam engine
360ad- hut-50gold
380ad- discovered steam engine, researching railroad; hut-barbs (die on my rifleman)
420ad- discovered railroad, researching industrialization; engineers built
460ad- discovered industrialization, researching steel; hut-mouseketeers
500ad- discovered steel; researching corporation; engineers built; 325 gold in gifts
520ad- hut-barbarians (kilt’em)
540ad- discovered corporation, researching refining
580ad- discovered refining, researching combustion; 350 in gold from gifts
600ad- Darwin’s built; discovered combustion & automobile, researching electronics
620ad- Superhighways built, electronics discovered, researching machine tools; building freights
660ad- machine tools discovered, researching miniaturization
700ad- miniaturization discovered, researching mass production
720ad- offshore platform built; building freights
740ad- mass production; computers; 550 gold in gifts; cranking up we-luv one last time
780ad- discover computers; researching nuclear fission
800ad- research lab built; building supermarket; 150 gold in gifts
820ad- nuclear fission discovered; researching nuclear power; supermarket built; building factory
840ad- factory built; building hydro plant
860ad- nuclear power discovered; researching the laser; switched to nuclear plant (I’ve never built one yet)
250gold in gifts
880ad- nuclear plant built; building freights
900ad- laser discovered; researching flight; I have so many units to disband, I may not need a manu plant
920ad- I don’t know how you guys get 1600 beakers. I have 936 with 7 scientists & 3ea(+24) trade routes
940ad- discovered flight; researching radio. Oh. I was at 50% science…my bad; 300 gold in gifts
980ad- discovered radio; researching advanced flight
1020ad- discovered advanced flight; researching rocketry; 350gold in gifts
1060ad- discovered rocketry; researching space flight
1100ad- discovered space flight; researching plastics; pop max at 32; sold sewer system
1120ad- Apollo Program completed. Aqueduct sold; quite a few huts remain, but I don’t have time
1140ad- plastics discovered; researching superconductor; first SS built
1180ad- superconductor discovered; researching fusion power
1220ad- fusion power discovered; researching whatever-I ain’t getting it anyways; sold research lab
1240ad- sold university
1260ad- sold library; finished 3 modules: 1 freight, buy hanging gardens, 1 freight, and city completes it
1300ad- finally up to 80 shields without manu plant; whale, wine, 2 silk, 2 hills, 4 forests (10 hunger)
1340ad- getting low on food; glad I bought some NONE engineers earlier with my diplo: 500 gold each
1400ad- starting lose population; oh well, less taxes I guess, but I already have over 5000 gold
1480ad- 15 structurals built with 3 modules; I remember a thread about building less engine and getting there faster during this time period. I’m going to go look that up
1500ad- my population stopped dying at size 27
1510ad- hmmm. Decision time. A 15/1-1/1-1-1 ship would get there in 36 years with a 79% success rating. That would be 1546ad. If I build 2 more components, it would take 20 years, but I’m not sure how fast it will go (I couldn’t find that information). Certainly not less than 16 years, though, so if I don’t launch now, I will get a slower AC date. Hmm.
1520ad- SS Component built. Well, since this is my best score so far, I ain’t going to potentially waste it on a 79% chance. I’m just not going to accept that risk.
1530ad- Launch a 15/2-2/1-1-1 Spaceship. ETA is 1551. 94% chance of success, which is acceptable, I guess; I’ll just keep building alpine troops for awhile
1533ad- that’s strange. Apparently, when you launch a ship, the turn sequence defaults to 1-year increments. Never launched this early, so it’s news to me. Gonna be a boring 18 turns
1534ad- idiot AI. Babylonians want superconductor. I tell them to go stuff it. They give me 100 gold.
1550ad- I am the wealthiest nation. I have 15,410 gold
1551ad- I really shot to the top of the powergraph with those 20 alpine troops.
War4Never the Cruel arrives at AC (34% Civ Rating).
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Old May 21, 2000, 15:04   #33
Paul
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Comparison table now available. Very interesting that we had three players all getting Space Flight in 1100 AD.
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Old May 21, 2000, 15:21   #34
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wow!It wasn't that long ago the question of whether or not you could win with a half dozen cities,let alone one,was being asked.
Now we have 1500s OCC landings on large maps.Mind you,the hardest part(finding a spot) is removed but still.I wonder how low it can go.

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Old May 21, 2000, 16:39   #35
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That would probably depend on what kind of setup you use. If you put players at a great city site and give them some units to explore you will of course get better results than when you start with just two settlers and have to build your exploring units or find them in huts.
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Old May 21, 2000, 20:16   #36
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I think that minimal spaceships should be used more often in OCC. It takes a long time for one city to build those extra components and structurals.
 
Old May 22, 2000, 05:39   #37
Oldman
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Great!!!!!! When i finally manage to get a 1700 landing time and i'm feeling all smug, you guys go and beat me and land in 1500?!?!?!

I should have thought of building a smaller ship, it might have saved me 20/30 years!!! Anyway, here's my log!! A bit unusual that i didn't get monarchy, but i got republic from a hut first!!

Sorry about the missing log upto 3000bc, i'll stick to using notepad and not wordpad in future!!!!

v2.42 Deity

AC 1745ad

Monarchy not established
Republic 3050bc
Democracy 60ad

1st Trade 700bc
2nd Trade 475bc
3rd Trade 150bc

Colossus 220bc
Observatory 325bc
Theatre 100bc
College 280ad
Darwins 860ad
Apollo 1440ad

Trade 2200bc
Construction 1450bc
Sanitation 200bc
Refridge not researched
Auto 860ad
Comp 1140ad
SF 1420ad

Pop 12 750bc
Pop 20 160ad
(Max)Pop 27 320ad


4000bc Founded Karakorum

Wordpad crashed in 3050bc, this bit is vague - sorry!!!

Built militia

Huts: horseman, 50 gold, 2 Barbarians, techs: Alphabet, code of Laws, Mystisism, Maths and Republic

Revolution in 3100bc (ish)

3050bc Republic
3000bc 50 from hut
3950bc 50 from hut
2650bc iron working from hut
2550bc 50 from hut
2450bc monarchy from hut
2400bc gave away techs to all, got 50 from babylonians and vikings
2350bc 50 from hut
2250bc 50 from hut
150 for barb leader
2200bc Colossus
Philosophy, Currency (free)
Trade (hut)
2100bc temple
WLTCD (3)
1900bc WLTCD ends (7)
1800bc shared techs, 50 from russians and vikings, wheel from americans Greek alliance dissolved?!!?
1600bc caravan (silk)
1450bc construction
1300bc caravan (coal)
1000bc exchanged all techs
925bc colleseum
900bc 100 gifts from babylon and 50 from vikings
875bc elephant (hut)
850bc aquaduct
wltcd (8)
800bc 50 from vikings
775bc caravan (dye)
750bc Pop 12!!!!
725bc wltcd cancelled (12)
700bc 1st Trade, silk to athens unwanted 262 revenue!
675bc 50 from hut
650bc medicine from hut
600bc chemistry from hut
550bc 50 from russians
525bc monothesiesm from hut
500bc theology from hut
gave theo away, 150 gift from americans
475bc 2nd Trade!! coal unwanted to athens 262 revenue
450bc knights and 50 from huts
425bc knights from hut
375bc chivalry from hut
50 from vikings
325bc Observatory!!!
economics from hut
275bc engineering from hut
200bc sanitation
shared all techs, 50 from babylon
175bc invention from hut
150bc 3rd Trade, dye to athens demanded 248 revenue!
125bc 100 from hut
sold collesium
100bc Theatre!!!
WLTCD (12)
disbanded militia, rushed sewers
75bc sewer system!!
25bc University (city)
1ad Democracy!! revolution
50 from hut
20ad Bank
60ad Democracy!!!!!!!
160ad pottery
gave away all techs, 50 from viks and babs, 200 from americans!!!!
180ad size 21 wltcd still going!
260ad 100 from hut
280ad Newtons College!!!
320ad wltcd ends size 27!!!!
340ad stock exchange
navigation!
50 from hut
380ad physics
50 from hut
420ad magnetism
460ad steam engine
500ad railroad
gave all techs away, 200 from russians and 150 from babylon, vikings and americans
540ad industrialisation
580ad explosives
600ad factory
620ad corporation!
660ad metallurgy
700ad electricity
720ad wltcd (27)
760ad electronics
engineer
wltcd cancelled (27)
800ad steel
840ad refining
860ad Darwins!!
combustion
automobile
shared all techs,
300 from russians, 150 from babylon, 200 from vikings, 100 from americans
900ad mass production
superhighways!
940ad leadership
Argh, barbarians near my nice new roads?!?!
980ad conscription
aquaduct sold
1000ad sold sewersystem
1020ad tactics!!
1040ad oil trade with athens, 262 revenue
1060ad caravan (silk)
machine tools
1100ad miniaturisation
1140ad computers
1180ad mobile war
research lab!!
share all techs
300 from russians, 200from babylon, 250 from vikings, 200 from americans
1220ad robotics
1260ad flight!!!!
manufacturing plant!
1300ad radio
1340ad advflight
1380ad rockets
1420ad space flight
1440ad APOLLO!!!!
1460ad structural 1
Plastics
1500ad atomic theory
sold factory
1510ad sold manu plant
1530ad nnuclear fission
1550ad silk to St Petersburg, 1420 revenue!!!
1560ad nuke power!!
1590ad laser!
war on greeks for 200
1620ad superconductor
structural 15!!!
war on babylonians for greeks peace!!!
25 from russians?!?!
1650ad fussion power!!
sold research lab
1660ad sold uni
1670ad sold library
1680ad 6 components!!!
1710ad 200 from russians
disbanded my LAST unit (engineers) to help with ss module
sold superhighways
1720ad sold stock exchange
1730ad Launch!!! estimated landing 1745ad!!!
Ship: 15-3-3-1-1-1
1731ad guerilla uprising?!?!?!
1732ad riflemen
1734ad engineer
1736ad engineer
1739ad riflemen
1740ad tank
1742ad tank
1743ad sneak attack by greeks, both riflemen destroyed!!
1744ad engineer killed!
1745ad AC landing!!!!!!!
Good Old Ghengis the Cruel!!!, 264 points 34%

[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 22, 2000).]
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Old May 22, 2000, 07:50   #38
Tom DeMille
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A note on small spaceships. The only time it worthwhile to build one is if the years are still going by at 10 per turn. That means a pre 1750 launch, which is pretty unusual. It shaves 40 years off of construction time, but adds 21 years of travel time.

If the AI is anywhere near starting a spaceship of its own, then don't launch a small one. Those 36 years of travel time will give the AI a chance to beat you.
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Old May 22, 2000, 08:28   #39
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Yeah, that's what i was thinking Tom!!! It's never been an issue before, but with this one having such an early landing, still in the 10years/turn stage, it would've made sense!!!

Do any of you guys know the time it takes for a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ship or 15-2-2-1-1-1 from launch to landing? just thought i'd ask cause i haven't got civ here to try it out for myself?!!?!?

Scouse, Haven't you played this one yet? I want to see if i've beaten your attempt this time?!!?
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Old May 22, 2000, 09:27   #40
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oldman,

Coincidentally, the logs of Tom, Paul, and me sort of illustrate the difference in SS flight times in the 10-year turn increments.

We all built apollo in 1120ad. Tom built a 15/1-1/1-1-1 SS, launched in 1510ad, and landed 36 years later in 1546ad. He had a 79% chance of success with this ship.

I built a 15/2-2/1-1-1 SS, launched in 1530ad (2 extra turns at 10 years each to build those bigger engines), and landed 21 years later in 1551ad. I had a 94% chance of making it.

Paul built the standard OCC ship (15/3-3/1-1-1), and launched it 2 turns (20 years) after I did in 1550ad. That of course is a 15-year trip, allowing him to land at 1565ad with 100% probability of success.
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Old May 22, 2000, 09:30   #41
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The 15-1-1-1-1-1 spaceship takes 36 years. I believe that the 15-2-2-1-1-1 ship takes 21 years.

edit: Oops, Vik beat me to it!
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited May 22, 2000).]
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Old May 22, 2000, 10:23   #42
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Cheers Guys!!!
i guess if i'd used my brain i would have thought to check your logs!?!? So does the probability of success make much difference? have any of you ever had a spaceship fail on you before?
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Old May 23, 2000, 08:18   #43
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I haven't, no, but I've only launched a small ship about 3 times (only once a 15-1-1-1-1-1 ship). I have no idea if it blows up at takeoff, or crashes when landing.
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Old May 23, 2000, 09:04   #44
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I don't know what happens to a spaceship if it "fails" either.

My very first spaceship I ever launched in Civ2 (before I knew how to build one), had about a 18% chance of success. I don't remember the specs, but about 60 years after I launched it, it made it to AC.
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Old May 24, 2000, 00:00   #45
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I take it the idea is supposed to be the fastest time and not just going for score? Should I even bother to post my log, as I was researching Future Tech 16 when my spaceship landed in 1903. It also seems like you guys don't try for more than a few essential Wonders. I built a ton, including Great Wall after I already researched Metallurgy, just for the points and prestige. How directly do you go for Flight? I tend to leave it 'til about last so the Colossus functions as long as possible. Finally, how large do you normally grow your city? I found out the hard way that anything past 36 is useless. Thanks for the responses on that. it was a little late as I didn't see the posts 'til after I tried to starve the Elvi. Lost the first Engineer, promptly disbanded the others to start a rush-build Module.
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Old May 24, 2000, 02:53   #46
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Old May 24, 2000, 09:41   #47
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outer,

I'll try to answer your questions, but smash's link to paul's guide is a great start...

Most here go for the fastest time. Scoring high is fun sometimes but generally everyone goes for time. That is why you see people selling off their lab/university/library upon discovery of fusion power -- really don't need more techs unless you want to go for a useful tech for something to build after the launch, like spies, solar plants, or mech infantry. I'm usually hurting for cash, so I sell them off.

As far as wonders go, I believe you help yourself more buy building caravans for the end game rather than extra wonders. This is based on the assumption that prestige and score do not matter much. Some games required Marco's or the Lighthouse for contact and/or trireme exploration, and some people build the UN if it's available after launch.

I think you are absolutely correct on when you should research flight. If I'm pushing a lot of beakers, though (like in OCC#9), it might by wise to go for it immediately after computers, and try to discover nuclear fission/power/laser/etc. while you are building your spaceship.

I grow my cities to the maximum size allowed by double irrigation. The final population size will come for me after I make all my terrain improvements for shields and arrows (i.e., mining wheat to silk, turning river squares into forests or hills, etc.). Based on your experience, though, I will now halt all city sizes at 36. For this OCC, I got to max my city at 32, but then had to change a bunch of plains/grassland squares to forest to get to 80 shields. Over time, this dropped my population down to like 27 or so, because a lot of them starved. But for awhile, those 12 extra citizens really helped out on discoveries, and later on taxes.



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Old May 25, 2000, 01:13   #48
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WOOOO! Success! Finally I managed to win an OCC fortnight game. But I'm in last place of course. I have a few questions though...

It was between Copernicus and Newton's that I started fall way behind. How do you guys get techs so fast during this period? Is is through giving techs to the other AIs? I tried that as much as I could, but I never seemed to get a decrease in the # of turns until the next tech. Do you have to give all your techs to all the other civs for this to work? Or just your most advanced?

I'm also curious about how people developed their city. After my WLTPD, before refrigeration, I changed the wheat squares to silk, and changed five river squares to forests. The result is that I had a size 24 city (with 3 Engineers). Should I have left some of the wheat alone, to get more scientists? Or should I have grown my city to it's max size, and starved it when I changed the terrain?

Anyway, here's my log:

OCC, Fortnight 9, 2.42

Summary:

AC: 1767 AD

Wonders:
Collosus 2300 BC
Cope’s 400 BC
Shake’s 225 BC
Sir ike’s 420 AD
Darwin’s 780 AD
Apollo 1520 AD

Governments:
Monarchy 3050 BC
Republic 725 BC
Democracy 60 AD

Trade Routes
1 650 BC
2 575 BC
3 525 BC

size 12 575 BC
size 20 220 AD
size 27 360 AD

Trade 1550 BC
Construction 975 BC
Sanitation 425 BC
Refrigeration 680 AD
Automobile 1020 AD
Computers 1260 AD
Space Flight 1510 AD

-4000 Horsemen (hut)
Karakorum founded.
I think I'll wait til monarchy to talk to the AI, as I don't want too many techs to delay my progress.
-3800 Warrior
I've changed my mind, I'm gonna talk to em:
Russians: Peace. They refuse alliance, I refuse to take warrior code now.
Babylonians: Peace, no alliance.
Vikings. Peace. Again I refuse warrior code.
Spanish: Peace. Alliance.
Americans: I take alphabet, they still have writing and masonry. Alliance.
Greeks: Peace, they refuse alliance.
-3650 Warrior.
Begin Colussus.
-3450 Code of Laws.
Size 2.
-3200 What the hey! Road on the antarctic?
-3100 Monarchy. Begin Revolution.
Writing, Masonry from americans.
Horseback riding, warrior code from russians.
Vikings refuse alliance.
Spanish refuse to give gift.
Alliance with Greeks, no gift.
-3050 Switch to Monarchy.
Feudalism (hut)
-3000 50 gold (hut)
Horde of 1 barbarian (hut). Horseman kills the barbarian.
-2850 Polytheism (hut)
-2800 Russians refuse to trade, and brush me off before I can gift them.
Babylonains: Alliance, they refuse to give me a gift.
Vikings refuse tribute.
Spanish refuse gift.
Americans refuse gift.
-2700 Size 3.
-2650 50 gold (hut)
NONE Archers (hut)
-2500 Build NONE Settler into my city. Size 4.
NONE ELephants (hut)
-2400 50 gold (Babylonians)
50 gold (Americans)
Greeks refuse gift.
-2300 Colussus.
-2250 50 gold (hut)
-2200 Size 5
-2150 Temple.
-2100 Currency.
Russians Refuse tribute.
50 tribute from Vikings.
-2050 25 gift from Babylonians
Americans, Spanish, Greeks refuse gift.
-2000 50 gold (hut)
NONE ELephants (hut)
-1950 Horde of 1 Barbarian (hut) Horseman killed barbarian.
Library.
-1900 Iron Working (hut)
Horde of 1 barbarian (hut), Horseman killed barbarian.
-1850 50 gold (hut)
-1750 Marketplace.
-1700 NONE Legion (hut)
NONE Chariot (hut)
-1600 NONE Settlers (hut), very, very far away.
-1550 Trade. Switch from elephant to caravan.
50 gold from russians.
50 gold from Babylonains.
The Wheel, 50 gold from Vikings.
Spanish refuse gift.
50 gold from Americans.
50 gold from Greeks.
-1500 Dye Caravan.
NONE Chariot (hut)
-1400 Spanish develop Chivalry.
-1350 Hide Caravan.
-1200 Silk Caravan.
-1150 NONE Knights. (hut)
-1050 Americans develo construction.
Hide Caravan.
-1000 Spanish aquire literacy.
-975 Mysticsm.
50 tribute from Russians.
50 gold from babylonians.
Construction, 25 gold from Americans.
100 gold, chivalry, literacy from spanish.
Alliance, 50 gold from Vikings.
50 gold from greeks.
NONE Knights (hut)
Map Making (finally!) (hut)
-950 Trireme.
I gave Russians map making, but then they went away.
Same with babylonains, I'll just have to wait a bit before trading
maps.
Vikings at war with babylonains.
-900 NONE Knights (hut)
-875 Civil disorder cause I wasn't watching city growth.
Philosophy (hut)
Share maps with Russians.
50 gold with babylonains, but I forgot to share maps,
break alliance with vikings.
Gave vikings map making, then they left.
Spanish, share maps.
Share maps, 25 gold from americans.
Share maps with greeks.
Engineering (hut)
NONE Settlers and a bunch of other units returned home for breaking
with viking alliance, even though they weren't near the vikings.
-825 Republic.
Begin Revolution.
-800 Colusseum.
-775 NONE Legion (hut)
Banking (hut)
Medicine (hut)
-750 Horde of 1 barbarian released. Barbarian killed by elephant.
-725 Switch to republic, begin WLTCD.Size 7.
-700 Disband horsemen to help build caravan.
-675 Coal caravan.
Legion releases horde of 1 barbarians.
Disband warrior to help build caravan.
-650 Barbarian horseman killed attacking legion.
Dye caravan arrives in Athens, 360 gold.
Mathematics (hut)
-625 Hides Caravan.
Disband warrior to help build caravan.
Knight unleashes horde of barbarians. Kills 1 horsemen.
-600 Caravan.
Knight destroyed by barbarians.
NONE Knights (hut)
-575 End WLTCD size 12.
Hides caravan arrives in Athens, 210 gold.
-550 50 gold (hut)
Astronomy.
Sell Colluseum.
-525 NONE Legion (hut)
Caravan.
Silk Caravan arrives in New York, 194 gold.
NONE Legion (hut)
-500 Caravan.
-475 Caravan.
Share maps with Vikings. THey refuse alliance.
-450 Caravan.
Hides caravan arrives in washington, 432 gold.
Begin COpernicus.
-425 Sanitation.
Horsemen releases barbarians.
NONE Knight (hut)
-400 Copernicus.
Invention (hut)
-375 Caravan
-350 Horde of barbarians (hut)
Bridge Building/seafairing from russians.
Caravan.
Seafairing, Bridge Building from Russians. They refuse alliance.
-325 Caravan.
50 gold (hut)
-300 Russians: Alliance, no gift.
Babylonians: 50 gold.
Spanish: 100 gold.
Americans: nada.
Greeks: 100 gold.
Caravan
-275 Caravan.
-250 Caravan
University.
Begin Shakespears.
NONE Legion (hut)
Horde of barbarians (hut). Chariot kills barbarians.
-225 Shakespeare's.
50 gold (hut)
Sell temple.
-150 Built university.
-100 NONE Legion (hut)
-75 Coal caravan arrives in Athens 131 gold.
-25 Sewer System.
50 gold (hut)
1 Democracy. Begin Revolution.
Legion unleashes horde of barbarians.
40 Knight destroyed.
60 Switch to democracy.
Begin WLTPD Size 12.
100 gold from russians.
50 gold from Babylonians.
200 gold from Spanish.
100 gold from Americans.
25 gold from greeks.
80 Bank.
120 Caravan.
Babylonians and viking sign peace treaty.
Babylonians get Monotheism from Vikings.
Get Monotheism from vikings. Alliance.
140 25 gold (hut)
160 Caravan.
180 Ecconomics.
200 Americans develop gun powder.
Caravan.
50 gold (hut)
NONE Crusaders (hut)
Americans: 50 gold and Gun Powder.
220 Babylonians Develop Theory of Gravity, give it to vikings.
Russians refuse gift.
100 gold Babylonains.
Vikings refuse gift.
100 gold Spanish
Greeks refuse gift.
240 Caravan.
100 gold (hut) (210 to rush buy carvan, 46 after 15 shields)
260 Caravan.
Horde of Barbarians.
280 Elephant destroyed.
300 Caravan.
Chemistry.
50 gold (hut)
320 50 gold (hut)
340 Caravan.
360 Caravan.
End WLTPD, size 27.
380 Caravan.
400 Caravan.
Explosives.
Begin INC.
420 Complete INC.
440 Metallurgy.
Greeks Develop Navigation.
Navigation from Greeks.
100 gold Vikings.
350 gold from Greeks.
350 gold from Russians.
50 gold from Babylonians.
50 gold from Spanish.
300 gold from Americans.
460 Engineers.
480 Engineers.
500 Engineers.
Physics.
520
540
560 Stock Exchange
Magnetism.
600 Caravan
Vikingsa develop Leadership
Disband horsemen.
620 Electricity
Caravan.
660 Caravan.
680 Refrigeration
Silk Caravan arrives in New York, 492 gold.
700 Caravan.
720 Steam Engine
Supermarket.
Dye Caravan arrives in Washington, 358 gold.
740 Caravan.
Disband Legion
760 Caravan.
Railroad. Begin Darwins.
Leadership from Americans.
780 Darwins.
Industrialization
The Corporation.
Disband legion.
800 Freight.
Spanish develop conscription.
820 Refining.
840 Freight.
860 Transport.
880 COmbustion.
Freight.
920 Freight.
960 Steel
Freight.
1000 Freight.
1020 Automobile.
Freight.
Disband freight.
Oil Freight arrives in New York, 188 gold.
Gold Freight arrives in Washington, 200 gold.
1040 Superhighways
Coal Freight arrives in Washington, 391 gold.
Spanish. Conscription. 100 gold.
Greeks: 250 gold
Russians: 250 gold.
1060 Electronics.
1080 Freight.
1100 Tactics
Freight.
1120 Freight.
1140 Machine Tools
Freight.
1160 Freight
1180 Miniturization.
1200 Factory.
1220 Mass Production.
1240 Hydro Plant.
1260 Computers.
Gold Freight arrives in New York, 390 gold.
Oil Freight arrives in New York, 390 gold.
Silk Freight arrives in Washington, 1200 gold.
1280 Mobile Warfare.
Research Lab.
1320 Robotics.
1340 Manufacturing Plant.
1360 Flight.
Freight.
1380 Freight.
1400 Radio
Freight.
1420 Freight.
1440 Disband Engineers
Advanced Flight.
1460 Freight.
1480 Rocketry.
Freight.
Begin Seti with intention of switching to apollo.
1510 Space Flight. Switch to Apollo.
1520 Apollo.
Plastics.
1570 Atomic Theory.
1600 Nuclear Fission.
1630 Nuclear Power
1660 Laser
1670 Size 25.
1690 Super Conductor.
1730 Fusion Power.
1752 Launch. Arrival 1767.
<Built a bunch of armor>
1767 MSS Dusty Arives on Alpha Centauri, 38% Dusty the Cruel.

----
Dusty
[This message has been edited by Dusty (edited May 25, 2000).]
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Old May 25, 2000, 05:00   #49
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Nice one Dusty!!!! It's amazing how close we all were, it looks like a span of 220 years, but cause of the game year, the turns flick past 10 years at a time!!!!

So you were only 2 turns behind Huey, 3 behind me!!! and 21 off Paul, who played the least turns even though Tom and Vik beat him to AC on date!!

Guys, So what about this mid section between the observatory and newtons?? how do you guys do that bit so quickly? research wise?

Paul, Just for you info - table 9 is called table 8 still?!!?
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Old May 25, 2000, 18:50   #50
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I finished OCC 9 today. I just will post a summary because my full log would take too long to post. I was ahead of everybody at the beginning, but somehow fell way behind after 1 AD.

AC: 1747 AD

Wonders:
Colossus 2650 BC
Cope’s 500 BC
Shake’s 250 BC
Sir ike’s 400 AD
Darwin’s 700 AD
Apollo 1480 AD

Governments:
Monarchy 2300 BC
Republic 700 BC
Democracy 80 AD

Trade Routes
1 1 AD
2 20 AD
3 40 AD

size 12 575 BC
size 21 220 AD
size 30 300 AD

Trade 2000 BC
Construction 1550 BC
Sanitation 750 BC
Refrigeration 800 AD
Automobile 600 AD
Computers 1280 AD
Space Flight 1460 AD

What did I do wrong? Were my trade routes too late? Please tell me.
 
Old May 26, 2000, 08:48   #51
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SilverDragon, first off, 1747 is a pretty good result, so you didn't do very much wrong!

Looking at your highlights, what I see is that you skipped Refrigeration until after Automobile. But you managed to get up to size 30 much before that. I suspect that you left the wheats alone instead of changing them to silk.

If you had changed the wheats to silk and gone straight for Refrigeration, you would have still been able to get up to size 30 pretty early on, with a lot more trade output.

And you're right about the trade routes. Get those caravans off as soon as possible; especially in this game, where they had to travel quite a distance.
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Old May 27, 2000, 16:19   #52
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Hi, OCC gang. Well, after putting it off for way too long, I finally took at shot at an old OCC map. Three of them actually. I failed miserably at OCC #4, was beaten to AC in OCC #8, and OCC #9 is currently being played and things look pretty good so far.

When will OCC #10 be available? You can count me in when it is, because now I'm hooked. I have a lot of leaning to do, but can't wait to give it a shot.

------------------
Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance
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Old May 28, 2000, 06:44   #53
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The games come out every 2 weeks, so OCC 10 will be ~ this Wednesday.
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Old August 10, 2000, 09:49   #54
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Well I finally got round to it - the one OCC I had not yet completed and it was the most lucky game ever - I admit to it being a sort of second attempt - way back when this came out I started and got as far as discovering the M25 before I had to stop I guess about 6 turns or so - I couldn't find that effort so had to start from scratch - my best game ever wish I had done it at the time...

========================

OCC#9 - v2.42 - deity

Monarchy -2450
Republic -725
Democracy -225

Colossus -2450
Copernicus -950
Shakespeare -125
Newton 80
Darwin 400
Apollo 1080

AC 1516

Trade#1 -750
Trade#2 -575
Trade#3 -525

Size 12 -525
Size 21 60

---------------------

4000 alliances with all other civs: Horse Riding + Alphabet; hut: None Horseman
3800 hut: 25g
3650 hut: 50g
3600 hut: 50g
3300 Code of Laws; hut: Polytheism; hut: None Elephant
3200 hut: 50g
3050 hut: Map Making
2900 hut: 50g
2800 hut: 50g
2700 hut: None Elephant
2650 hut: 25g
2600 hut: None Horseman
2500 Monarchy; Revolution; allies: 150g, Mysticism, Masonry, Iron working, Currency, Writing; hut: 50g; hut: 50g
2450 MONARCHY; Colossus; hut: None Legion; hut: None Legion
2400 hut: CONSTRUCTION
2350 Library; hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched; hut: 25g; hut: TRADE
2300 allies: 50g (cheapskates!)
2250 hut: None Elephant
2200 hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched; hut: 25g; hut: The Wheel
2150 allies: Pottery + 125g
2050 hut: 100g; allies: 75g
2000 hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched
1950 hut: 50g
1900 hut: Bridge Building; allies: 125g
1850 hut: None Legion
1750 hut: Engineering; allies: short on patience!
1700 hut: Seafaring
1600 hut: Mathematics; hut: 25g; allies: 100g; Barbarian Legions approaching!
1550 Horseman & Diplomat foil Barbarian attack
1500 hut: None Elephant
1450 hut: 50g; allies: 50g
1350 Greeks: Astronomy; hut: Navigation
1250 allies: 100g
1150 allies: 25g & sympathy
1050 allies: 125g
0975 Literacy; allies: 75g
0950 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
0900 hut: 100g; allies: 50g
0825 allies: 100g
0750 Temple; hut: 50g; DYE TO NEW YORK: 122g; allies: 150g
0725 Philosophy -> The Republic; Revolution; REPUBLIC; hut: Banking; hut: The University; Size 4
0700 Colosseum; hut: Theory of Gravity
0675 allies: 75g
0650 hut: 2 Barbarian Horsemen + 1 Legion: kill Elephant
0600 Aqueduct; allies: Feudalism + 25g
0575 SILK TO BOSTON: 153g
0550 Bank; hut: 50g; Horseman killed by Barbarian Legion
0525 WLCD stops @ 12; Medicine; HIDES TO WASHINGTON: 260g; hut: 50g; Horseman loses to Barbarian Legion; allies: 125g
0500 University
0450 Sanitation; allies: 50g
0400 Sewer System; Size 13
0375 allies: 50g
0275 allies: 175g
0250 Democracy; Revolution
0225 DEMOCRACY established; hut: None Legion
0175 allies: 125g
0150 Sell Colosseum
0125 Gunpowder; SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; WLPD starts @ 13
0100 hut: 50g
0075 allies: 250g
0050 hut: None Elephant
0025 Chemistry
----------
AD01 hut: None Elephant
0020 allies: 250g
0040 hut: 50g
0060 Size 21
0080 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; WLPD stops @ 22; Hides to Wahington: 350g
0100 Metallurgy; allies: 50g
0140 hut: Barbarian Knight (oops!): Legion dies
0160 hut: 50g
0180 Magnetism; allies: 50g
0200 hut: None Musketeer; Rebellion 5 Elephants & 6 Archers near Liverkorum!!
0260 REFRIGERATION; allies: 75g
0300 Steam Engine; Supermarket; Size 22; Hides to Kiev (undemanded): 673g
0320 allies: 75g
0340 RailRoad; Vikings: Economics & 50g
0380 Industrialisation
0400 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> The Corporation, Refining
0440 Steel
0460 allies: 150g
0480 Combustion
0500 allies: 100g
0520 AUTOMOBILE; allies: 175g
0540 Superhighways
0560 Electronics
0600 Mass Production; allies: 225g
0640 Chivalry; Americans: Conscription + 250g; Greeks: 50g
0680 Leadership
0720 Machine Tools
0740 Coal to Athens: 322g; allies: 750g
0760 Machine Tools; Size 23 (natural growth);
0800 Miniaturisation
0820 Offshore Platform; Dye to Athens: 630g; Note: I am now supreme!
0840 COMPUTERS
0880 Mobile Warfare; WLPD stops @ 26
0900 Robotics;
0920 Guerilla Uprising!!!!! (SH*T); Power Plant; Flight;
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Guerillas rise on peninsula to West of city and one Rifleman advances towards city the remainder stay where they started - Diplomat reaches outlying Rifleman with one third of a movement left and buys him - Rifleman attacks stack successfully - 22 units destroyed!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++ HOSANNA!
0960 Radio;
0980 Babylonians: Atomic Theory
1000 Advanced Flight; Oil to Kiev: 702g
1020 Rocketry
1040 WLPD stops @ 28
1060 SPACE FLIGHT
1080 APOLLO PROGRAM
1100 Plastics
1140 Nuclear Fission; Gold to Athens: 242g - disapointing - can't make a 1 turn advance
1180 Nuclear Power
1220 The Laser
1260 Superconductor
1300 Fusion Power
1340 Stealth
1400 Communism - the beaker cost of this shot up to 2700 after the first turn
++++++++++++
Wierd - Now researching Guerilla Warfare - cost 1976 beakers before turns 1 and 2 of research now at beginning of turn three (when it should have been mine) the cost is 2812!!!!!!! What is going on please? Has anyone else seen this behaviour?
++++++++++++
1460 Guerilla Warfare
1480 LAUNCH eta 1516 (15-1-1-1-1-1)
1481 Airport
1482 Labour Union; Stealth Fighter
1485 Espionage; Barracks
1489 Communism established
1494 Combined Arms
1498 Amphibious Warfare
etc - alliances all held
1516 landed AC

Hard work - seemed a lot longer than I guess it reall was ...



------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
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Old August 10, 2000, 10:00   #55
Tom DeMille
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Wow, 22 barbarians destroyed by one of their own. That diplomat must have been very pursuasive.
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Old August 10, 2000, 11:27   #56
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Nice going Scouse!!!!! great landing date!! So, have you been getting advice off of SG(3)?!?!?!?!
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Old August 18, 2000, 23:52   #57
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That little road on the south pole went on forever. I went in thinking I had found another civ and then saw it wasn't so I sent a horsie in both directions, and waited for them to meet. and waited. and waited. Finally i got the idea and expanded that map window in the upper right and found out why I made alliances with all 7 civs before any of them even founded a city (surprising since i was purple), and kept all 7 the entire game! Admittedly i kind of ignored them after my last big tech dump in 600BC, and even refused every AD trade (they wanted to give me stuff like monotheism) The last contack I had with any of them was pre-spaceflight. I just kept getting 2 turn techs, and even 4 consecutive 1 turn techs between computers and flight so i didn't want to mess with that. Never did build Darwin's voyage. I'm not sure, if it would have saved me or cost me turns. I had a healthy treasury towards the end so didn't need my 10 caravan/freights for the modules, but then i don't know if i would have been able to pull through the lean years right at the start of space flight. Of course the one thing that would have saved me more turns than anything would have been not having both wheat pillaged by barbarians early BC. That was a lot of settler work, along with centuries of potential specialists lost. I never did get all my land finished, even with 3 engineers and a settler going full throttle late game, and that last engineer cost me 2 specialists. Threre's always checks and balances though, but I'm sure I could have gotten a 1500's landing taking back that 1 barb uprising I also had to force myself to start my 3 trade routes, and I know I could have done it sooner. I kept wanting to save up my caravans for wonders because I had _so_ many techs from the millians of huts out there, and having dumped all of my techs up to medicine on the AI, I was positive i was going to have a hard time building what I wanted. Unfounded worries. Oh, and there are 2 reasons why I am going in reverse order OCC-wise. One is because I read a few of the early threads (mid-single digit OCC) to see what they were all about and I'm giving myself time to forget anything that I could possibly remember. Its worked so far, cause while I read the lead-in posts for this OCC, I couldn't for the life of me remember a thing about it. And the second reason is as I'm getting more experienced at OCC, I get to compare it against people when they were less experienced at it Well, other than Scouse here, and look when he wound up landing Oooh, I beat him at 1 thing - my bribed artillery killed 51 (yes, 51) barb units in one blow


To the game

diety, 2.42
AC: 1626 AD

monarchy: -2650
republic: -1850
democracy: 60

colossus: -2300
copes: -400
shakes: -750
newton: 80
darwin: ----
Apollo: 1280

trade: -900, -425, -425

size 12: -725
size 21: -275


wow, spelled out explicitly that we have contact, well, lets take advantage

-4000 hut, archers, Home founded, alliance (russians), alliance (babylonians), warrior code, alliance (vikings),alliance(Spanish), alliance (Americans), alliance (greeks) thats everyone, should have contacted vikings first but o well, who knew they had extra techs
-3950 horseback riding (russians), alphabet (greeks)
-3750 hut, 25 gp
-3650 hut, 100 gp
-3500 (size 2), hey, an intercontinental roadway!
-3450 hut, iron working
-3400 hut, 50 gp (with this road I'm supreme...)
-3300 hut, code of laws, hut, currency
-3250 man this is a long road
-3200 hut, trade (come on I need Monarchy...)
-3150 hut, legion...
-3100 size 3
-3050 hut, 25 gold
-3000 hut, legion (sigh)
-2900 hut, legion (another one?), hut, wheel... (I'll never make monarchy at this rate, just go straight to republic)
-2850 writing (babylonians)
-2800 hut, Monarchy, revolt (finally), hut, yet another legion (4 now, none anywhere near home, and allied with everyone), masonry (Americans)
-2750 hut, 50 gp
-2700 hut, Feudalism
-2650 Monarchy founded, hut barb horseman (at least its different), hut Chivalry)
-2600 hut, literacy
-2500 hut, construction, hut barb horseman (again it vanishes)
-2350 size 4 tech dump, 50 gp (russians), 50 gp (babylonians), polytheism, 100 gp (vikings), spanish and greeks tire of me dumping 10-15 techs on them ,mapmaking, 50 gp (Americans)
-2300 Colossus, disband warrior, hut barb horseman (one finally attacked, vet legion)
-2250 hut (oops, Advanced tribe, retry)... another legion, no 4 legged units out there?
-2200 hut, mathematics
-2050 marketplace
-2000 hut, 50 gp, hut barb horseman
-1950 hut, AT => mystism, hut, philosophy (hey! where's my free tech?)
-1900 Republic (ah, there it is)
-1850 Republic Founded, barb leader (150)
-1800 caravan (grumble barbs pillage both wheats), hut Engineering
-1700 halt WL @ 7
-1600 hut, 50 gp, hut barb horseman (disappears)
-1550 hut Astronomy, hut, NON knight!
-1400 Aquaduct, hut, another legion, hut knight
-1350 Size 8, WL
-1300 size 9, cancel WL, hut, University
-1250 legion dies to barb crusader, hut, invention
-1150 hut, 50 gp
-1100 caravan
-1050 hut, 50 gp
-1000 caravan, barb leader (150)
-975 hut, 50 gp
-950 university
-900 caravan,hut, barb horse (killed it), silk (undemanded) to New York (84)
-850 caravan, Medicine, size 10
-825 hut, 50 gp
-800 caravan, size 11, cancel WL
-775 hut, 50 gp, sell temple
-750 Shakes
-725 size 12 cancel WL
-700 caravan, hut, AT=>50 gp, hut AT=>50 gp
-675 caravan, hut, 50 gp
-650 caravan
-625 hut, legion
-600 caravan, 150 gp (russians), 50 gp (babylonians),150 gp (vikings),100 gp (americans),100 gp (greeks)
-575 accedentally forested my city square. o well
-550 caravan
-525 Sanitation,hut, 50 gp
-500 sewer system, WL
-475 hut, (thats the 7th Samarakand...) 50 gp
-450 caravan, hmm, several civs have bridge building, but don't want to trade techs...
-425 dye (demanded, 204), hides(undemanded, 102) to Philadelphia
-400 Cope's
-375 Theory of Gravity
-350 caravan
-300 caravan, hut 25 gp
-275 Chemistry, size 21, cancel WL
-250 caravan
-200 caravan, Gunpowder, hut, 50 gp, hut, barb horseman (legion died)
-175 about to grow, should have invested in a granary
-150 caravan, size 22
-125 Explosives, WL, hut, 50 gp, killed barb knight, barb horseman
-100 Engineer
-50 caravan, Banking
-25 Bank
20 caravan, Democracy
40 hut, 50 gp
60 caravan, Democracy founded, bridge building, 250 gp (Americans)
80 Ike's, WL
120 caravan
140 seafaring
160 caravan
180 Navigation
220 Physics
240 size 28 cancel WL
260 caravan, Steam Engine, hut, 50 gp
300 caravan, railroad
340 caravan, Magnetism
380 caravan, Metalurgy
420 caravan, Electricity
460 caravan, Refrigeration
480 WL
500 Engineers, Industrialization
520 supermarket
540 Corporation
580 Steel, hut, 25 gp
620 Refining, cancel WL (30)
660 Factory, Combustion
700 Steel
740 Superhighways, Mass Production
780 Power Plant, Electronics
800 diplomat
820 Conscription
840 freight
860 Leadership
880 freight
900 Tactics
920 freight
940 Machine Tools
960 freight
980 Miniaturization
1000 Offshore Platform, hut, musketeer (heh)
1020 Computers (only 14 techs left)
1040 Research Lab, Mobile Warfare (woohoo! and still not max science!)
1060 Robotics (Hmm, real chance here, going for all the 1 round techs i can get - skipping darwins to save freight and save more money post flight), looks like flight after this
1080 Manufacturing Plant, Atomic Theory (only 10 freights and caravans - with enough gold may be enough) (1656 beaker production, 1636 for flight!!!)
1100 freight, Flight, switching to wonder - hope i'm not too soon with terraforming and mines due soon
1120 reminder settlers started mining the grassland in case #2 and #3 engineers are unable to help out on terraforming
1140 Radio (too many old NON's still hut hunting, but just found another for next turn), darn guerrilla uprisings... only 2 riflemen, but against archers and legions? (dead legion, archer next, maybe the horsie can outflank it?)
1160 hut, barb cavalry? run horsie run! (dead horsie, knight may get away)
1180 Advance Flight (woohoo, non vet archer in mountain takes out wounded rifleman!), legion, and second horsie in reserve)
1220 Rocketry, archer wend down big to second rifleman
1240 no pollution this round, can build a fort, albeit in the forested river
1260 SPACE FLIGHT!!!, and timed the wonder perfectly
1280 Apollo Program (last rifleman died against engineer, horsie untouched, though lost too many SS fodder units), disband horseman - hmm i missed 1 hut that i could have gotten to o well.
1300 struct #1, Plastics, disband wounded engineer (pollution not on production tile, so i can manage), barb leader (150)
1320 comp #1
1340 struct #2, Nuclear Fission
1360 struct #3
1380 struct #4, Nuclear Power
1400 struct #5
1420 struct #6, Laser (80 prod, 3 surplus food now, and enough science that I could celebrate up to 32 if need be..., 33 if the engineers can break long enough from pollution to finish double irrigating)
1440 #7, oops, tech time doubled
1460 #8
1480 #9, Superconductor
1500 #10 (hehe, I'm 7th most powerful, and everyone else is gunpowder/knights)
1510 #11
1520 #12, Fusion Power, 100% taxes now (still allied with all 7 civs), netting 355/turn
1530 #13
1540 #14
1550 #15, modules next
1560 mod #1
1570 mod #2
1580 mod #3
1590 comp #2 (*ponders launch*) due 1626 (WOW), with taking 10 turns for next comp, i think i'll launch
1623 side note, guerilla uprising, bribed one of the artillery and 51 units destroyed.
1626 Alpha Centari! I had forgotten that unlike Civ I, it goes year/turn after launch. This completely smashes my old record of 1833 . And the comparison table says? I'm not one of the last to land for once!

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*
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Old August 19, 2000, 09:17   #58
Tom DeMille
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quote:

I get to compare it against people when they were less experienced at it


Hey, no fair

edit: Oh, and if you think it took forever for your horsemen to travel the length of the road, imagine how long it took me to build it in the first place.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited August 19, 2000).]
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Old September 19, 2000, 11:37   #59
Ribannah
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Netherlands, Embassy of the Iroquois Confederacy
Posts: 1,578
OCC #09
Deity
MGE

These boots were made for walking!!
Good thing there was a road, some old civilization must have built it before they crossed the pole .
We counted the max population and made the decision to change the wheat into silk, which proved to be quite profitable . Even had a tech per turn, once .
40 Shields was plenty to build the spaceship .
================================================== ==============
AC: 1566

Monarchy: -3050
Republic: -2250
Democracy: -225

Colossus: -2150
Copernicus: -550
Shakespeare: -225
Newton: 240
Darwin: 700
Apollo: 1160

Trade routes: -475, -425, -225

Size 12: -1250
Size 21: 60 (size 27 in 180)
Size 36: 940

Trade: -3100
Construction: -2650
Sanitation: -150
Refrigeration: 440

Automobile: 700
Computers: 1000
Space Flight: 1140
============================================

Bronze Working
Ceremonial Burial
-4000 50(h)
KARAKORUM founded by Tamara
-3900 Warriors
-3800 Warriors
-3750 Alphabet
-3650 Archers(h), Horsemen(h), disbanded 2 Warriors
Americans: "We discovered Code of Laws"
-3600 Peace(A), traded for Code of Laws and Writing, Ally(A)
-3550 25(h)
-3500 S2, N-Chariot(h)
-3350 N-Horsemen(h)
-3300 Currency(h)
-3250 50(h), found Athens
-3150 Peace(Greeks), 3 techs->G, 50->G, no Ally , 50<-G
Monarchy(h) , Peace(Russians), traded for Horseback Riding,
6 techs->R, no Ally , 50<-R
Peace(Babylonians), traded for Pottery, 5 techs->B, no Ally or tribute
Peace(Vikings), traded for Warrior Code, 7 techs->V, no Ally or tribute
Peace(Spanish), 9 techs->S, no Ally or tribute
traded for Masonry(A), 3 techs->A, no gift
-3100 Trade(h), Revolution
-3050 MONARCHY, Mysticism(h)
-3000 S3
-2950 The Wheel(h), Barb Horsemen(h) - killed
-2800 N-Horsemen(h), Barb Chariot
-2750 N-Chariot(h), 1 tech->A,B,G,R,V, 2 techs->S
-2700 S4, Barb Leader (150)
-2650 50(h), Construction(h)
-2600 Engineering(h), N-Horsemen(h), Barb Horsemen
-2550 50(h)
-2500 25(h), 4 techs->R, no Ally or tribute
4 techs->B, no Ally, 25<-B
4 techs->V, no Ally, 25<-B
3 techs->S, traded for Feudalism
4 techs->G, no Ally or tribute
-2400 found St Petersburg
-2350 50(h), Barb Chariot, traded for Literacy(B), 50<-B
4 techs->A, 50<-A
-2300 traded for The Republic(A), 1 tech->A, 25<-A , Revolution
-2250 REPUBLIC, S5, di Archers, N-Horsemen(h), Invention(h)
Barbs pillage wheat
-2200 25(h), N-Archers(h), Barb Chariot, di Horsemen
-2150 COLOSSUS, Barb Chariot
-2100 N-Horsemen(h), 25(h), 50(h)
-2050 Library, 50(h)
-2000 7 techs->R, 2 techs->B, 4 techs->V, 2 techs->S
(all except Invention), no Allies
4 techs->G, Ally(G), no gift
-1950 Temple, Barb Horsemen, 3x50(h)
-1900 25(h)
-1850 Marketplace
-1800 We Love , 50(h)
-1750 Colosseum, Map Making, S6
-1700 S7, 25(h), Barb Horsemen
-1650 S8, 25(h)
-1600 Aquaduct, S9
-1550 S10
-1500 Gold, S11
-1450 S12, N-Chariot(h), 50(h)
-1400 Silk, We Love ends , N-Archers(h)
-1350 N-Horsemen(h)
-1300 Settlers, S11
-1250 S12, 1 tech->A, traded for Philosophy(A)
-1200 Trireme, N-Horsemen(h)
-1150 Map Making->G, Greeks end Alliance
-1100 Hides, Barb Archers, Barb Archers/Leader
-1050 Mathematics
-1000 2 techs->R, Maps(R), 3 techs->B, Maps(B), no Allies
-975 Barb Archers
-950 Hides, N-Legion, 50(h)
-900 Trireme, sold Colosseum, Barb Archers
* leader disappears for the 4th time *
-875 traded for Iron Working(A)
3 techs->V, Maps(V), no Ally
5 techs->S, Maps(S), Ally(S), no gift
3 techs->G, Maps(G), Ally(G), 50<-G
-850 50(h), N-Legion(h)
-825 Hides
-775 Hides, Wheat/r into Silk/r
-750 50(h), N-Legion(h)
-725 Hides, Astronomy, traded for Seafaring(B), 50(h), 100(h)
-700 (PYRAMIDS - Babylonians)
-675 Hides
-625 Hides
-600 Barb Legion
-575 di N-Chariot
-550 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
-525 Barb Legion, leader disappears again
-500 Hides
-475 Medicine, Gold to Babylon (d,485)
-450 Hides
-425 University, Silk to Babylon (d,540)
-400 University
-375 Banking
-350 Bank, 50(h) (after 5xSamarkand ), Wheat/r into Silk/r
4 techs->V, Maps(V), no Ally
-325 25(h)
-300 Hides, 25(h)
-275 Economics, 2 Hides to Babylon (2x279)
-250 Hides
-225 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, Democracy, DEMOCRACY, Barb Legion
10 techs->R, Maps(R), 6 techs->B, Maps(B), 1 tech->V
5 techs->S, Maps(S), Spanish end Alliance over gift
4 techs->A, Maps(A), no gift
5 techs->G, Maps(G), 50<-G
-200 Barb Legion/Leader
-175 Stock Exchange
-150 Sanitation, We Love , 25(h)
-125 Sewer System, S13, di Trireme
-100 S14
-75 Harbor, S15
-50 Theory of Gravity, S16, 1 tech->G, 50<-G
4 techs->V, Maps(V)
-25 Hides, S17
1 N-Horsemen(h), S18
20 Hides, Navigation, S19, 50(h), 1 tech->G, 50<-G , 3 techs->R
40 S20
60 Hides, S21, 50(h), 5 techs->S
80 Physics, S22
100 Hides, S23, 100(h)
120 S24
140 Hides, Magnetism, S25
160 S26
180 Hides, S27
200 Bridge Building, We Love ends , 5 techs->B, Maps(B)
9 techs->A, Maps(A), 200<-A
11 techs->G, Maps(G), 50<-G
220 di N-Legion, N-Chariot
(LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP - Babylonians)
240 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, Gunpowder
260 2 Barb Legions
280 Coal, Chemistry, Barb Legion
320 Food, Explosives, 50(h), 6 techs->R, Maps(R)
6 techs->S, Maps, Ally(S), no gift
9 techs->V, Maps, 3 techs->B, Maps
3 techs->A, 50<-A , 3 techs->G, 50<-G
340 N-Musketeers(h)
360 Engineers, Metallurgy, S26
400 Engineers, Electricity, S25, 50(h)
440 Food, Refrigeration
480 Food, Steam Engine
520 Supermarket, Railroad
5 techs->V, Maps, 5 techs->S, Maps, no gift
5 techs->A, Maps, 50<-A , 5 techs->G, Maps, 50<-G
540 N-Crusaders(h), 25(h)
560 Food, Industrialization
(GREAT LIBRARY - Americans)
600 Diplomat, The Corporation, di N-Horsemen
620 Food, 100(h), Barb Cannon, di N-Horsemen
640 Food, Refining, Barb Cannon
660 We Love , Spanish end Alliance (demanded War(R))
-> several units from huts now at home
680 Steel, S26, di N-Horsemen, 4 techs->A, Maps, 100<-A
4 techs->V, Maps, no Ally
700 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion, Automobile, S27, di Trireme
720 Electronics, S28, di N-Horsemen
740 Factory, S29, di N-Horsemen, Barb Cannon
760 Hydroplant, Mass Production, S30, di N-Horsemen
2 techs->A, traded for Chivalry(B), 11 techs->B, no Ally
14 techs->R, Maps, Ally(R) even though we refused War(S) ,
400<-R :cool; * new record for Rib!! * 8 techs->S, Maps
780 Mass Transit, S31, di N-Legion
800 Oil, Leadership, S32, di Settlers
820 Food, S33, di N-Archers
840 Food, Conscription, S34, di N-Archers
(MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY - Babylonians)
860 Food, We Love ends , di N-Chariot
880 Food, Tactics, di Engineers -> 40(+1) shields, no pollution
12 techs->G, Maps, 50<-G
* next tech costs 1456, we make 1416 *
6 techs->A, Maps, 50<-A , 8 techs->V, Maps
900 Food, We Love , di Engineers
920 Transort, Machine Tools, S35, di N-Horsemen
6 techs->R, 100<-R
940 Food, di N-Horsemen, S36
960 Food, Miniaturization, We Love ends , di N-Horsemen
980 Food, di N-Horsemen, sold Sewer System
1000 Food, Computers, di N-Horsemen, sold Aquaduct
1020 Research Lab, Flight
1040 Radio , Oil to New York (225)
1060 Advanced Flight
1100 Rocketry
1140 Space Flight, sold Temple
(STATUE OF LIBERTY - Babylonians)
1160 APOLLO PROGRAM
* we have 40 shields, 9 freigt, 6 units, 3591 gold *
1180 SSS, Plastics
1200 SSS
1220 SSS, Atomic Theory
1240 SSS
1260 SSS, Nuclear Fission
1280 SSS
1300 SSS, Nuclear Power
(WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE - Americans)
1320 SSS
1340 SSS, The Laser
1360 SSS
1380 SSS, Superconductor
* Barb horde (several dozens of Artillery and Riflemen) *
1400 SSS
1420 SSS, Fusion Power, Barb Riflemen
1440 SSS, Bribed Barb Artillery, di Artillery
1460 SSS, Br Barb A,R, Barb A,R, di A
1480 SSC, Br Barb A, di A
1500 SSC, Br Barb R, Barb R
1510 SSM, Br Barb A, di N-Horsemen
1520 SSM, Communism, di N-Crusaders, Barb A,R
1530 SSM, LAUNCH the 15-1-1-1-1-1 "TAMARA", Barb A,R

1531 Espionage, Barb A,R
1532 Barb A
1533 Recycling, Barb A
1534 di Diplomat, Barb A
1535 HANGING GARDENS , Environmentalism, Barb A, di R, sold Hydroplant
1536 Solar Plant, di N-Settlers
1537 Offshore Platform, Genetic Engineering, Barb A, Barb Leader (150)
1539 Amphibious Warfare
1540 Another Barb Horde
1541 Guerilla Warfare
1542 MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION, Barb R
1543 Labor Union, Barb A, traded for Mobile Warfare (R), 200<-R
traded for Monotheism and Polytheism (B), 2 Barb R
1544 Barb A
1545 Robotics, Barb Leader (150)
1546 Barb A
1547 Combined Arms, Barb A
1548 di N-Musketeers, Greeks end Alliance (we refuse war(B))
1549 EIFFEL TOWER, Stealth
1551 Manufacturing Plant
1552 Fundamentalism
1555 ORACLE, Theology, 900<-R for War(B)
1558 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO.
1559 (SETI PROGRAM - Babylonians)
1560 LIGHTHOUSE
1562 GREAT WALL
1564 SUN TZU'S WAR ACADEMY, di Artillery
1565 JS BACH'S CATHEDRAL

1566 The "TAMARA" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 461 (59%)

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
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Old November 14, 2000, 14:27   #60
Richard Bruns
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Location: NC, USA
Posts: 1,579
I've been trying for some time now to win an OCC game, and I finally was able to do it this scenario. Ironically, my success came from avoiding contact with the AI. I made alliances early, and then avoided contact. Thus I was able to stay peaceful for most of the game and never had to give away money or techs.

My landing date in 1894 was rather unimpressive, but since I didn't give the AI anything after the early game that were never able to threaten me. By surrounding my city with freights, I was able to keep those pesky Greek diplomats at bay, and after I launched my ship I was only attacked by three American cruisers. They might have hurt me if I hadn't built that coastal fortress, but the attack was ineffective. Next turn I used the UN to force peace, and sailed happily to Alpha Centauri.

I had no problem getting 80 shields; I converted all non-shield grassland on the river to forests. I ended up with production of over 90, which allowed me to support a good military force. To make up for the food loss from this conversion, I kept the wheat. After superhighways, I was researching a tech every two turns.

I learned something I didn't know before: If you build a road on a rivered forest, it adds a trade arrow. This meant that after superhighways and before flight, my railroaded, rivered forests were producing one food, three shields, and six trade. That's better than most specials.

I've concluded that rivers are more important than specials. In my random map attempts, I'll start settling in the middle of river systems even if it means I only get a couple specials.

I'd like to thank Paul for keeping up such a helpful web page.
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