which Secret Project is really useless?

[Misotu]

Originally posted by Ned
I also agree with that the Planetary Transit System is largely a waste. It comes too late to be of any use. Most of my bases are at least size three by the time I get it. Drone control is not an issue since I do not ICS.

Another SP that is literally useless is the Space Elevator. It comes just about the same time as one gets Graviton Theory. Both give Orbital Insertion capability. If the latter did not exist, the former would indeed be important.

Ned

aaarghh. Well. I'm going to disagree with Ned again. Sorry. Nothing personal

This is the difference in how the game is played by different people I suppose. The Planetary Transit System is available with industrial automation, which comes pretty early in the game if you have a builder faction and depending on the size of map. I regularly make IA by 2115 - slightly earlier if collaborating with another faction. So I defy you to have all size 3 bases by then And you've got plenty more bases to build, too. On the other hand, I have to admit that I don't bother to build it in single-player, but I have seen it used to devastating effect in multi-player games.

The Space Elevator is a key project. It comes just after you get Hab Domes - Graviton Theory is not on the beeline for Transcendence so you only get that if you're unlucky I often build the Elevator in MP, let alone SP games. It provides orbital insertion capability, doubles the economy output of the host base, removes aerospace restrictions on sats AND doubles mineral production when bases are building sats. When I have hab domes in place, the only SP I want is the space elevator. It's about then that I'm building my drop tanks, while gunning for the Ascent. Nothing like hedging your bets ... and what's the point in having size 15 bases if you don't have at least 15 energy satellites and 15 Nessus sats?

If you're simply going to transcend, then it's true that the Elevator's usefulness is a little limited (though it's still worth building, especially if you do it with an upgraded crawler after you've built the Nanofactory.) But in a fight to the death, the Space Elevator cannot be underestimated.

[Misotu]

Originally posted by Blake
The self aware colony could also have merits enough to be built, (even with a smallish empire would probably save you 200 or so upkeep per turn). If your a free marketeer with good trading partners then you would be rolling in cash, but for a poorer faction (Gaian's prehaps?) it could provide a handy cash boost. Basically the SA colony is not one for the marketeers. (it has obvious merit for the Hive)

Yes, agreed on the analysis and I always build this one, even as a free marketeer, if I have a base handy. I already have the nanofactory, so it costs a few hundred to build and saves me several hundred per turn. It's not a must-have, but it is certainly worthwhile if you have cash and crawlers going spare.

[Ned]

M, If it is a wet world, the PTS may be of some use. Otherwise you tend to lose population the instant you found an base. However, I find that most of my bases are in fact size 3 or larger about the time I can build the PTS.

I also use double-blind research exclusively. So I cannot beline to IA.

Now as to the Space Elevator, yes indeed it might be valuable if one did not have the Cloudbase Academy. However, that SP provides the same effect as the Space Elevator by providing an Aerospace Complex in every base. The ability to do orbital insertions is great, but I always seem to get Gaviton Theory just about the same time the Space Elevator is built. I normally just build an SP in the late game - no rushes and no crawler upgrades. Also, at this time, I am usually getting a new tech every two to three turns. So Graviton come close on the heals of the Space Elevator.

As well, the double minerals for satellites is nice. However, I usually also have quite a number of bases that can build satellites in one turn anyway. The boost is not necessary.

But, if any of the above is not true, I do agree, the Space Elevator is a must build.

Ned

[EtheMind]

double-blind research exclusively

I think this very interesting discussion is going to point out only one fact. There is no useless or even less useful secret project in the game when you consider all the possible strategies.

[Peacekeeper]

Cloning Vats

Since no one defended this project, I will.

This one is of the highest priority to me, not because of the boom, but because of the government, it eliminates the production loss in power and thought control, so it will give you a huge +5 production, this happens long before most of your units were built in bioenhencement centers, so you could really need the morale updates (without production loss).

[Ned]

The Cloning VAT, IMHO, is the best SP in the game, both due to its continuous pop boom, but more importantly because of its removing the negative attributes of Thought Control and Power. Peacekeeper, you are right on.

Ned

[Kassiopeia]

I think that the best SP's are the Voice of Planet and the Ascent to Transcendence, because if you have them or the AoT, you'll most probably win the game.

[Lord_Icewind]

Hello
Has anyone thought that the "Hunter-Seeker.." SP is REALLY useful if you're a science faction playing against data angels or any other rather lousy faction that just HAS to use probes, because they cannot win by an honest, open way?

"When conquering others, you meet power...when conquering oneself, you meet greatness"

[Ned]

You really begin to appreciate the HSA when you don't have it and you take a base in AI territory, regardless of the faction. In most of my recent games playing with the "enhanced AI" settings, I do not get the HSA. So if you do take a base in AI territory, you will quickly find that base retaken after the AI has stolen virtually all your tech. The HSA is simply invaluable.

[EtheMind]

because they cannot win by an honest, open way?

I have never met an open and honest SMAC player in my life. So, why make AI play like an empath?

I'm going to stick with my previous observation since it seems to be holding on very well