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Old August 9, 2001, 20:40   #1
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Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir
With the launch of Civ3.com and the announcement of the 16 civs we can now try to accumulate all available information on the issue of who the leaders of these 16 civs are. I am going on the assumption that there is but 1 leader for each Civ, as the Civ of the week article would lead me to believe. (Hammurabi is the lone Babylonian leader mentioned)
Now, let us see here.....
The Americans- Abe Lincoln 100%(Old magazine screenshots)
The Aztecs Montezuma 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?m...800&height=600)
The Babylonians Hammurabi 100% (civ of week section at civ3.com)
The Chinese Mao Zedong? illegible (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Egyptians Cleopatra 75%(http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?m...800&height=600) Note, this leader is only 75% because the picture looks NOTHING like Cleopatra? Perhaps a designer renamed a Ramsses or someone of the like?
The English Elizabeth I 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?m...800&height=600)
The French Joan of Arc 100% (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Germans illegible...Hidenburg maybe?
(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Greeks Alexander the Great 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Indians Ghandi 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Iroquois unknown
The Japanese unknown, Tokugawa? (http://apolyton.net/forums/attachmen...&postid=392605)
The Persians Unknown
The Romans Julius Caesar 100% (old magazine screenshots)
The Russians Catherine the Great? Unknown(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatu...tid=404268</a>)
The Zulus unknown

Note, at the following link http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?m...800&height=600
a leader by the name of Brother Bluto appears, can anyone fill me on on what civilization this man is from? Persia I'm guessing, but if anyone can clarify it would be great. (Edit: It turns out the name bluto was pun of sorts by some of the Firaxis staff)

Last edited by monkspider; August 9, 2001 at 21:00.
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Old August 9, 2001, 20:41   #2
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The Chinese leader is obviously Mao, unless "Mao's clone" counts.
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Old August 9, 2001, 20:42   #3
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Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir
Quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
Note, at the following link http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?m...800&height=600
a leader by the name of Brother Bluto appears, can anyone fill me on on what civilization this man is from? Persia I'm guessing, but if anyone can clarify it would be great.
Just testing the custom civ name functionality out there... fans of classic American comedy films should immediately pick up on the joke...

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Old August 9, 2001, 20:51   #4
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LOL thanks for the reply Dan, here I was thinking you were using some obsecure, villianous leader that obviously proved the inspiration for Popeye's notorious villain!
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Old August 9, 2001, 20:52   #5
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Can anyone else confirm that it is, indeed Mao? And if so, Mao Tse Tung or Mao Zedong?
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Old August 9, 2001, 20:55   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
Can anyone else confirm that it is, indeed Mao? And if so, Mao Tse Tung or Mao Zedong?
Spirited debate during our marathon quest leaned us towards Mao Zedong
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Old August 9, 2001, 20:58   #7
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I believe Mao Tse Tung and Mao Zedong is the same person. It's just his name is spelled a different way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by TechWins
I believe Mao Tse Tung and Mao Zedong is the same person. It's just his name is spelled a different way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct. The spirited debate was about the correct spelling of his name His identity was decided early on.
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:03   #9
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We are now left with an interesting conjecture, can anyone here identify the man HERE (http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg) who is indentified as "Brother Bluto"?
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:06   #10
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The Americans- Abe Lincoln 100%(http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/screenshots/abe-s.jpg)
The Aztecs Montezuma 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600)
The Babylonians Hammurabi 100% (civ of week section at civ3.com)
The Chinese Mao 100%(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Egyptians Cleopatra 75%(http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600) Note, this leader is only 75% because the picture looks NOTHING like Cleopatra. Perhaps a designer renamed a Ramsses or someone of the like?
The English Elizabeth I 100% (http://www.civ3.com/previewwin.cfm?...=800&height=600, http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/screenshots/liz-s.jpg)
The French Joan of Arc 100% (http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Germans illegible...Hidenburg? Bismarck? Unknown
(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeatures.gif)
The Greeks Alexander the Great 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Indians Ghandi 100% (Old magazine screenshots)
The Iroquois Hiawatha 100%(http://apolyton.net/civ3/images/scre...Hi_angry-s.jpg)
The Japanese unknown, Tokugawa? (http://apolyton.net/forums/attachme...=&postid=392605)
The Persians Unknown
The Romans Julius Caesar 100% (old magazine screenshots)
The Russians Catherine the Great? Unknown(http://www.civ3.com/images/headfeat...=&postid=404268[/url])
The Zulus unknown

If anyone can provide links for some of the leaders which are simply listed as "(old magazine screenshots)", please do.

Last edited by monkspider; August 9, 2001 at 21:18.
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:12   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
We are now left with an interesting conjecture, can anyone here identify the man HERE (http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg) who is indentified as "Brother Bluto"?
it's a test of the custom name feature
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:14   #12
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Re: Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Just testing the custom civ name functionality out there... fans of classic American comedy films should immediately pick up on the joke...

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Old August 9, 2001, 21:21   #13
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Mark,
I was trying to ask if anyone could identify who the picture of the man is, who is called "brother bluto" in that picture. Sorry for being unclear
As far as i know, it is a picture we have never seen before. The only country i can reasonably see it being, by process of elimination, is someone from Persia.
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Old August 9, 2001, 21:24   #14
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Re: Re: Re: Leaders of the 16 civs in Civ 3, just the facts sir
Quote:
Originally posted by Warm Beer


TOGA! TOGA!
Ding ding ding... someone give Warm Beer a cookie!


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Old August 9, 2001, 21:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
Mark,
I was trying to ask if anyone could identify who the picture of the man is, who is called "brother bluto" in that picture. Sorry for being unclear
oh, i suppose it's the default picture of Julius Caesar
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Old August 9, 2001, 22:00   #16
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Mmmmm, cookies N beer.

It seems there are two pictures of "brother bluto..." on the Civ selection screen and on the diplo screen:

one we can assume is Caesar:
http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/playersetup.jpg

But who is this guy?...
http://www.civ3.com/images/screenshots/foreign.jpg

The Start Up screen makes me wonder if civs are tied to color (ala civ II) after all. The screen makes it seem like the Custom "delta house" civ, modeled after the Romans and the Egyptian civilzation can co-exist. The question remains, is it possible for say, Japan and France to be in the same game. At least in a single player game.
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Old August 9, 2001, 22:42   #17
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exactly my point beer, this guy *MUST* be from Persia, but who is he??
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Old August 10, 2001, 02:27   #18
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What is up with the pictures of Cleopotra? My history might be a little off but wasn't she at least part European?

Isn't the skin a little dark for Cleopatra or is just that all movies and pictures in the states are of Eurocentric views of civilization?
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Old August 10, 2001, 03:27   #19
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Tniem: I agree with you as far as the whole Cleopatra thing....she was Greek by descendency (is that even a word?!?!) oh wait, ancestry.

Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...712#post413712

That's the "Just the facts ma'am" thread...Alexander01 made the observation.
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Old August 10, 2001, 04:24   #20
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The Cleopatra thing is open to debate. How could she rule Egypt if she's not from a royal line? That makes her African.
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Old August 10, 2001, 04:47   #21
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When Alexander the Great conquered Egypt (among other lands) he died with out an heir. Hence his kingdom was divided between three generals, among whom was Ptolemy- he got Eqypt. Cleopatra is a decenant of Ptolemy. Her royal line is derived from the Macedonian conqueror.

very brief explanation...

[edit-misspelled Egypt... too many cold beers, methinks]
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Last edited by Warm Beer; August 10, 2001 at 04:54.
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Old August 10, 2001, 04:47   #22
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edited: what WB said
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Old August 10, 2001, 05:05   #23
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As an artistic interpretation, it's not completely improbable. There is a certain amount of evidence that she was at least 1/4 black. If you notice the woman pictured has clear caucasian features- note the nose, for instance. Plus, it's sunny in North Africa. The combination of 1/4 african descent, dark mediterranean features and a hefty spot at the beach each day could certainly produce an effect like this.

Plus, she's been considered Black or Mulatto in popular lore (which, after all, is what counts) at least since Shakespeare.
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Old August 10, 2001, 07:31   #24
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Now... Waaaiit a minute.
Why do you assume that the guy labelled Brother Bluto is the image for the male Persian? Could be Russian male. If it is Persian, then my bet would be Xerxes, but that ain't no fact.
As for German leader, looks like they have it being Bismarck von Otto (should be Otto von Bismarck)
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Old August 10, 2001, 07:33   #25
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Er, that's exactly the same guy as in the other Caesar pic. Except he is in his "renaissance" appearance. See separate thread.
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Old August 10, 2001, 15:52   #26
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DITCH MAO!

They don't have Stalin representing the Russians, nor Hitler representing the Germans. This is my one peeve for the game. If there's no way to change the Mao animated leader, I'll delete the Chinese from the game. And that's actually my favorite civ.

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Old August 10, 2001, 16:07   #27
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Quote:
Monkspider: perhaps this is caesar from another age (must admit when I first saw him I thought, "Venice?!?!") Another fellow brought up that it appears that leaders' images changes with the times...
I agree. The garb reminded me of Renaissance Italy a great deal, and the two faces look the same (try a side-by-side comparison).

In addition, they both have the same name, and one with "classical" connotations at that.
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Old August 10, 2001, 22:42   #28
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Xerxes would not look like "Brother Bluto." Persians (at least Achaemenid Persians [Cyrus, Darius, Xerxes, etc.] are portrayed on their monuments with mustaches and square like beards. The crown is similiar in shape to Hammurabi's but white, with vertical, triangular obtrusions on the sides instead of the rounded horizontal ones on Babylon's crown.

Iroquois leader = Hiawatha 100% (saw it in an article)

Japanese leader = Tokugawa Ieyasu 95% (see civs included thread for details and arguments for this conclusion)

Egyptians are almost definitely Cleopatra. Sorry. Yes, she probably was a mixed breed. The original Greek blood went back something like 20 generations. Some of those Ptolemies married native noblewomen, priestesses and princesses to solidify their shaky foreigner position by assimilating themselves into the Egyptian culture (and genepool )

Zulus are almost undoubtedly Shaka.

Every civ has had their CivII counterpart so far. It also looks as though they are trying to do away with the ficticious characters (Hippolyta, Ishtari, Amaterasu, Shakala, etc.)

While the German pic appears to say "Bismarck von Otto," I believe this is a renaming joke, and the leader is Frederick. Barbarossa this time, not kooky Frederick II like CivII. Besides, CTP used Bismarck, and using it in CivIII would be copying. (Like CTP did to CivII), and Firaxis wouldn't sink to...sigh...Activision's level.

Any further thoughts? What about UUs and special abilities?
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Old August 11, 2001, 00:28   #29
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Here are some images of Persian kings that I dug up. I suppose we can expect the animation to look like these if they don't try to model them after some Arab kook.

Darius (white crown and dark brown beard)

Xerxes (gold crown and purple beard [don;t ask me why -- the coloring of the picture is a little weird])

Darius is in council with is advisors, Xerxes is communing with his prime minister, the infamous Haman. Both Kings are the individuals on the right of the pictures.

***********************
Alas, I don't have as much computer savvy as I would like, so I was only able to post Darius in this message. I shall put on Xerxes in a moment.
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Old August 11, 2001, 00:32   #30
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Here is Xerxes.
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