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Old January 9, 2001, 16:07   #1
Chainsaw
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Once more: The beloved wlt_ days
In my current game, all of my bigger cities (20+) have all happiness improvements except for the colloseum and all of the trade improvements including superhighways. I have MC, JSB and CfC. No units outside of the city, three trade routes with an average trade bonus of seven. When I set lux to 90% there`s still one unhappy guy who prevents the city's pop from exploding. Can anyone help?

Has anyone tried to celebrate being another govt than demo (or rep)? Is it worth it, or do you lose too much trade? It sounds good to me in fundie, where you could combine wealth and military power this way. But as I said, I've never tried it.
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Old January 9, 2001, 17:06   #2
Carolus Rex
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Do you have lot of military units in the cities? Nukes?

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Old January 9, 2001, 17:25   #3
Smash
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Eventually,some cities will even need a colliseum.A colliseum with Electronics will give 4 more contented citizens.The riot factor plays a role.

Here is one that I can't figure out at all.

Perfection City

This is our capitol in a giga map succession game.The city is well located with good specials.It has a temple,market,bank,Collosus and 3 trade routes.Our civ has Mich's and JSB.We are in Republic and as you can see,the city won't celebrate.Not even at 80% luxuries.NO units away either.Not enough cities for the riot factor to be a major problem.

WHY???
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Old January 9, 2001, 19:30   #4
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Chainsaw-

You probably just need some entertainers. Take a worker off a forest or two and you'll likely get WLTKD.

Smash-

"Perfection city" needs a courthouse (quickly followed by an aqueduct).

Hanging Gardens is also handy in this situation if you have a lot of cities and aren't racing toward Invention.

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Old January 9, 2001, 20:01   #5
Carolus Rex
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A courthouse only makes one content citizen happy under demo, I think. A civ's capitol never has any corruption, either.

Also, absence of an aqueduct only prevents cities from growing past size 8, not celebrating.

Something else is rotten in the state of Denmark! Invisible nukes?

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Old January 9, 2001, 20:39   #6
Smash
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Of course you can't build a courthouse in your capitol nor would you want to.This city should be able to celebrate up to size 12 no problem but something is amiss.
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Old January 10, 2001, 03:30   #7
debeest
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Chainsaw: very large cities usually need colosseums in order to keep everyone happy. Try putting one in and see what happens.

Smash: luxuries beyond two per citizen have no effect (oddly enough, the manual and Civilopedia fail to mention this ). Your seven citizens can only use 14 luxuries. If none of the citizens start out enraged, it takes 12 luxuries to make three unhappy citizens happy, and the last two luxuries can only make someone content. You can't create greater happiness by adding any amount of luxuries or entertainers. You can do it with HG or CfC, or you can do it with a courthouse or palace in democracy; those things create happiness not based on luxuries. If you were in democracy, you'd be celebrating. Finally, you can do it by building enough cities so that your first citizen is outraged; as you've probably noticed, it takes only two luxuries to make an enraged citizen happy, and then you've got 12 left to make three citizens happy. Note that if you had an even number of citizens (e.g., 8) you'd be celebrating (16 usable luxuries, making 4 of 8 citizens happy).
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Old January 10, 2001, 06:42   #8
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I'd agree the lack of colussium seems to be the problem, but you might also look at what kinds of military units you have. Everybody keeps mentioning nukes, but in the original game as packaged with ToT, there are several units that cause unhappiness: nukes and cruise missles, bombers and stealth bombers, battleships, howitzers, and maybe helicoptors (I don't have the manual here). Is that only ToT? I just finished a game where a city with every happiness and trade arrow improvement (in a civ with every happiness wonder) had an unhappy guy at 90% luxuries; the city's two bombers were to blame, even though they weren't in the field.

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Old January 10, 2001, 07:55   #9
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Smash

Could we see Perfection City with the Happy screen rather than the Info screen?

Did you try the effect of making a worker into a specialist?


Edit. Rufus T. - think its just nukes, missiles and bombers - not battleships, howies or helicopters.

It's a while since I read the manual but I seem to recall it says the unhappiness is felt both in the nuke/missile/bomber's home city and in cities which house them. But my experience is that it is only the home city. Not an extensive experience tho' cause I rarely build any of them.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited January 10, 2001).]</font>
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Old January 10, 2001, 10:55   #10
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I think it's only missiles and bombers that cause unhappiness even when in cities, and all units with an attack factor > 0 that are "in the field." The unhappiness is felt only in the home city.

You can see from the snapshot that the only two units supported by Perfection City are a warrior and a phalanx that are fortified at home. Military units are not the answer. Check out my answer, above, and let us know if you find any flaw in it. (I didn't invent it; I'm not attached to it, but I'd like to know if it's right or wrong.)

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Old January 10, 2001, 11:19   #11
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Nukes, cruise missiles and all planes cause happiness problems regardless of position (in or out of a city).
Oddly enough, helicopters do not have this trait. Test it if you don't believe me, I am 100% sure of this being the case.

As a side note, one of my favorite improvements that civ 2 made on civ 1 is the ability to keep military units in any city or a fortress w/in a city radius to keep from causing unhappiness under rep/dem instead of forcing all units to be inside the home city.
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Old January 10, 2001, 11:43   #12
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Fighters in cities do not cause unhappiness. I think helicopters do cause unhappiness, in or out of cities, but I never build 'em so I'm not positive.
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Old January 10, 2001, 12:20   #13
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This is getting clearer and clearer!

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Old January 10, 2001, 18:44   #14
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quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Albert B on 01-10-2001 10:19 AM</font>
Nukes, cruise missiles and all planes cause happiness problems regardless of position (in or out of a city).
Oddly enough, helicopters do not have this trait. Test it if you don't believe me, I am 100% sure of this being the case.


What?! Are we all using different versions of Civ or something?? In CIV II MGE, I can guarantee you are 100% wrong, Albert B. Fighters do NOT cause unhappiness in Democracy, regardless of their location. You are correct about helicopters, though, they cause unhappiness regardless of their location.


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Old January 10, 2001, 20:26   #15
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V2.42:
The following units in friendly cities cause unhappiness (one unhappy citizen on the happiness screen with WS): cruise missiles, helicopters, bombers & stealth bombers and nukes. No unhappiness caused by fighters. Fighters don't cause unhappiness without WS either. All the units mentioned above cause two unhappy citizens in home city without WS or a police station, even being inside a friendly city.
Speaking of demo, of course.
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Old January 10, 2001, 20:44   #16
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Smash - could your problem be the "rotating really unhappy city" phenomenon? You know when you form a new city over the max for the government and one random city gets unhappy? Coliseum would be my first effort, but you might try to either build an additional city or disband one that was just built.

Somebody around here is an ace with what happiness impacts first and why - DaveV perhaps?

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Old January 10, 2001, 21:56   #17
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well I cheated up a colliseum and no effect.I cheated up Democracy and it would celebrate(as mentioned above) at 20% luxury.So I guesss the riot factor was at fault as I suspected,however,at the time our civ had 22 cities.That does not seem like a large number for a Republic on giga map.The giga maps seem to use small map #s but even on a small map 22 is not high for Republic.Is it?

Specialists had no effect.Nor moving workers to water.

here is the happy screen

at zero luxury


at 80% lux


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Old January 10, 2001, 22:56   #18
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:: very cautiously ::

Don't cities start with a content citizen? And then the riot factor reduces that first citizen to unhappy. At least that's what it looks like in Smash's pictures.
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Old January 11, 2001, 02:51   #19
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quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Albert B on 01-10-2001 10:19 AM</font>
Nukes, cruise missiles and all planes cause happiness problems regardless of position (in or out of a city).
Oddly enough, helicopters do not have this trait. Test it if you don't believe me, I am 100% sure of this being the case.


I checked my (ToT) manual last night; it says the units that cause unhappiness under Democracy, regardless of whether or not they are in the field, are missles (both kind), bombers (both kind), and helicoptors -- but not fighters. I don't know where I got that stuff about battleships and howies . And the manual may well be wrong about helicoptors; I almost never build them, so I don't know. Maybe I'll build one in my current game, just to check it out.

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Old January 11, 2001, 08:48   #20
Albert B
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First, let me apologize for my 100% sure comment. I was going from memory and in civ 1 I am 95% sure that fighters used to cause problems with happiness, I never built them then and very rarely build them now. So apparently I made a mistake (it happens every 10 years or so, ha ha). I didn't think helicopters caused a problem but I've only built 1 ever (just because I could) and I don't remember it causing a happiness problem. However, it is very likely I had a Wonder or two that made this problem go away before I saw it.

Back to the none celebrating city... I agree with SandMonkey, in your happiness screens, Smash, the first citizen is unhappy which shouldn't happen until you get to the 'riot factor' because of a large # of cities.

And finallly, sure thing Sten, where in the state are you from originally?
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Old January 11, 2001, 08:55   #21
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Smash - I think debeest has it exactly right. If you are indeed using small map riot factor numbers, you will have some odd-population cities unable to celebrate when you have between 8 and 32 cities. At 8 cities, the first citizen will be happy in all cities; at 32, the first citizen will be very unhappy in all cities. In between those numbers, some cities will have a first citizen unhappy and be unable to celebrate when their population is odd.
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Old January 11, 2001, 09:57   #22
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Non-formal confirmation - since Julius released his NoLimits patch I have played virtually nothing but giga maps and although I have not documented it have had the distinct impression that it was using small world magic numbers for the riot factor.
Julius - you out there? any comment?

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Old January 17, 2001, 12:23   #23
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Personally, I never worry about the WLT_D. Of course being the warmonger that I am, I make it my goal to eliminate any other civ and take over the planet, thus ending the game and any sort of possible unhappiness.

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Old January 17, 2001, 15:41   #24
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On closer thought, I think Chainsaw's problem is the same as Smash's. More luxuries from any source won't make that citizen happy. You need HG, CfC, or a palace or courthouse in democracy in order to celebrate. Or else build more cities, and then more of them will have the first citizen enraged, so naturally (?!?) they'll be easier to make happy.
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