How about the unfinished city walls?

[Father Beast]

you have noticed the half built city walls in 2 of the screenshots, haven't you?

I think this means (since I can't think of another explanation) that improvements in progress will be shown as under construction in the city view.

[Martinus]

I have seen the same and agree with you.

However, there can be also another solution, albeit more unlikely one. At some point Firaxis said that catapults will now be used for crushing city walls before attacks - maybe this wall is not being built, but just damaged.

[Buck Birdseed]

Perhaps city walls lose their effect and decay in the modern age.

[marcuspeddle]

There are roads and houses where the walls should be so I don't think there was any wall there in the first place. Perhaps they are empty spots left for some city improvements? I must say, however, that the walls do appear to be beaten down and very ancient in places. I guess we'll have to wait and play the game to find out.

[Provost Harrison]

I go with Snapcase on this one, that the walls have expired due to the effect of certain technological advances (metallurgy and cannons presumably) and they have just fallen apart over the years. Perhaps they give a cultural bonus at this stage. Cities such as York are well known for their walls and add to the city, eg, like culture...

[SerapisIV]

I tried this thread and it got shreaded by people complaining about the city view being useless anyway. What are they thinking?

I think that the walls were made obsolete, not being built as has been suggested before. I say this because in one of the city screens, a market is shown in one of the wall gaps, as if it was built afterwards.

I think obsolete walls is a new game idea for the Civ series as now technology may make walls obsolete (I don't think they'd show militarily destroyed walls). The city screens appear to be pre-industrial, so what tech would eliminate walls? Engineering? Gunpowder?

[Laszlo]

Snapcase, though hard to justify the cost of building city walls in the modern age, some circumstances have shown that they can still hold some use. When the Germans were running through taking over France, they found that the few cities with remaining city walls took much longer to capture.

The city name of the famous one started with a V. Anyone remember it?

[Father Beast]

The idea of certain improvements becoming obsolete with certain techs would be new to civ, but welcome. The closest we ever got to that before was the obsoleting of your barracks.

[marcuspeddle]

In the new screen shots there is a city view where the city walls go all around the city and has a large gate. This city looks like it's an ancient age city. So, I guess Snapcase must be right when he says the city walls fall into decay. Nice touch by the graphic designers.

[Urban Ranger]

There are other possibilities, including:

1. Not having money to pay the maintenance fee on the wall
2. That's what it looks like when you sell a city wall

[Zanzin]

lol, yeah, the concept of "selling" city improvments!! It makes sense for things like factories (they may be bought by private contractors and the like), but who are you selling your walls to? Who the hell has the need for city walls? And do they get moved from your city to whoever has bought them?

Sorry, but fireselling certain city improvements just doesn't seem logical or make much sense in a real world sense.

[Warm Beer]

I know! You sell the bricks of the walls to contractors for new building projects and landscapers for pretty rocks for new gardens!

I wonder is city walls will become obsolete in Civ3. I, too, like that idea.

[Wojit]

I also like this idea, due to the fact that in Civ 2 I rarely built them past 1500 AD anyway.

[Grim Legacy]

Originally posted by Zanzin
lol, yeah, the concept of "selling" city improvments!! It makes sense for things like factories (they may be bought by private contractors and the like), but who are you selling your walls to? Who the hell has the need for city walls? And do they get moved from your city to whoever has bought them?

Sorry, but fireselling certain city improvements just doesn't seem logical or make much sense in a real world sense.

Hm?

In old times, the stones that made up the walls would be very valuable indeed, and worth a price.

In new times, think about the real estate that the ole bricks usurp -lots of opportunities for savvy construction companies!

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Regarding the city view: I at first thought the walls were just going to be represented like this, like in Civ1 where the walls only appeared before the city, not around it, or in Civ2, where the walls were no more than a wooden/metal gate like some people have in their backyard fence... but since someone actually saw an old-age city being fully enclosed, there might be hope for decay/damage/obsolesence scenarios after all!

[Grumbold]

The main reason why so many historical sites no longer exist as more than overgrown foundations is that most of the reusable building materials were over time legally or illegally removed for other projects. Stripping a fort or wall of its dressed stone is a lot cheaper than quarrying more. If Civ leaves a decayed old wall in the city view that is a nice touch.

[ByzCat]

The picture with the pyramid and desert surroundings looks more like the walls decayed. If you look at the section of wall behind the coliseum there is a big dip in it but it doesn't continue to the bottom. If an invading army was blowing a hole in a wall they would go all the way through.

[N35t0r]

yeah, i was thinking that walls should be made obsolete...

I was actually thinking to make a mod of modern warfare with no walls, to encourage people to build fortresses and fortify units on hills and forests OUTSIDE cities, as it was done IRL for a long while.