Multi-monitor support?

Al'Kimiya · August 14, 2001, 18:01

Perhaps this is a minor issue for most people, but I post it anyway...

We've heard that the game will not run in a window, but to be very "alt-tab friendly", where ICQ, Winamp and other programs could be on top.

In newer versions of the Windows OS, there is built-in support for multi-monitor. So if you have more than one graphic card you just plug in another monitor and expand the desktop onto it.

My consern is that when running a full screen game, it often insists on changing the resolutions back and forth on the main screen, thus rearranging all windows, not to my liking. (For instance, the intro movie in Call to power 2 did this).

What I would like is that any movies could be scaled to the current resolution (which I hope can be edited to use the current windows desktop resolution or some user defined). I would also prefer if possible to have the mouse cursor "free" so it can be used for programs on the other screen, while civ3 stays "in place". This is good for IRC and surfing or whatever.

Would be thankful for any comments. From Firaxis or others.

Inverse Icarus · August 14, 2001, 18:27

yea, i have that (Raedon VE Dual Head).

works well with civ2 (a couple of "Track Enemy Moves" windows and a huge mian screen), but that was a windowed game where you could move and resize all the windows.

Jeff, care to answer?

SlowThinker · August 14, 2001, 19:07

I go with Al'Kimiya.

I use that second monitor for notes about my plans, units, cities of the Civ game that is under way, I browse a scanned tech tree chart etc.

I dislike that fact about non-windowed Civ3 very much.

OneFootInTheGrave · August 14, 2001, 20:43

I have two monitors as well. And non-windowed game is a step back for me.

My proposal would be that you could at least try to patch multi-monitor support in the future, if it will be user unfriendly at the beginning. There are more and more people using this feature

. And it is really handy if you have to wait.

Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS · August 15, 2001, 01:29

I'm also using two monitors -- I often use one for the game and one for the debugger (and to browse Apolyton). I haven't had any problems...

tniem · August 15, 2001, 02:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
I'm also using two monitors -- I often use one for the game and one for the debugger (and to browse Apolyton). I haven't had any problems...

Mike thanks for the information. Just to let you know, it is your 14th post here on Apolyton which means your still a settler. How 'bout racking up your post counts with some more information...

Al'Kimiya · August 15, 2001, 02:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
I'm also using two monitors -- I often use one for the game and one for the debugger (and to browse Apolyton). I haven't had any problems...

Sounds good, thanks

OneFootInTheGrave · August 15, 2001, 04:48

This is the step up.

Thanks for info.

Gramphos · August 15, 2001, 04:48

This is very good news, now the only thing I need is a new video card, a new monitor and a new OS

Or what OS' supports Multimonitoring, is there apps that makes it work for other OS?

I smell a news Item, now where is Snapcase. He is listed as online, so He is probably writing one now.

SlowThinker · August 15, 2001, 04:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
I'm also using two monitors -- I often use one for the game and one for the debugger (and to browse Apolyton). I haven't had any problems...

Are you sure? The situation might be different in the case of debugging and in the case of a regular game...

Normally all non-windowed games dissapear form the primary monitor after you Alt-tab, and so you cannot see the game and other windows related to the game (notes etc.) simultaneously.

Al'Kimiya · August 15, 2001, 04:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramphos
Or what OS' supports Multimonitoring, is there apps that makes it work for other OS?

Windows 98/ME/2000/XP supports multimonitoring.

Al'Kimiya · August 15, 2001, 05:01

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowThinker
Normally all non-windowed games dissapear form the primary monitor after you Alt-tab, and so you cannot see the game and other windows related to the game (notes etc.) simultaneously.

I think Alpha Centauri didn't, not sure though.

Gramphos · August 15, 2001, 05:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Al'Kimiya
Windows 98/ME/2000/XP supports multimonitoring.

Good, I thought it was ME/2000/XP (not 98) as I only have used it with 2000, now I only need a new videocard and a monitor. (I maybe can get some old from work).

SlowThinker · August 15, 2001, 05:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramphos
This is very good news, now the only thing I need is a new video card, a new monitor and a new OS

Or what OS' supports Multimonitoring, is there apps that makes it work for other OS?

Win 98 and higher. A bulk of video cards supports multi-monitor.

Jarouik · August 15, 2001, 05:28

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowThinker

Are you sure? The situation might be different in the case of debugging and in the case of a regular game...

Normally all non-windowed games dissapear form the primary monitor after you Alt-tab, and so you cannot see the game and other windows related to the game (notes etc.) simultaneously.

I think that if he has a debugger program and/or web browser on his secondary monitor and he can use them while the game is visible on the primary monitor, it seems safe to say that Civ3 won't change resolutions and/or color depths of your monitors and as such can be used in a multi-monitor setup better than e.g. SMAC, which forced you into 8-bit colors, rendering the apps on the secondary monitor so ugly as to be unusable (and distorting the game graphics completely whenevery you clicked on another program), even though SMAC did allow you to operate windows on your second monitor without alt-tabbing.

So, I can only rejoice that Firaxis has taken multi-monitor users into consideration as well - little things like this make a huge difference when you play a game a lot and wish to use other software at the same time.

And on the topic of operating systems that support multi-monitoring, only the Professional version of Windows XP will support multiple monitors. Even though Windows 98 introduced the feature, it has been removed from XP Home Edition - so anyone who uses multiple monitors will have to get XP Professional, which is more expensive. I won't be upgrading from 2000 any time soon...

meriadoc · August 16, 2001, 02:08

I'm glad to hear that Civ3 will support multiple monitors (or, at least that what it sounds like). I have a Matrox DualHead card and I do occasionally use two monitors, so I can think of a few uses for this ability.... (Of course, since my second monitor just died, these uses will have to wait.)

MarkG · August 16, 2001, 14:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
I'm also using two monitors -- I often use one for the game and one for the debugger (and to browse Apolyton). I haven't had any problems...

hey mike, how about a 2048x768 mode for Civ3?????

StSz · August 16, 2001, 14:55

well, I have a Matrox G400 (Matrox makes the _BEST_ TV-OUT and multi-monitor cards), and if I use the dual-monitor feature (quite often) it doesn't matter if a prog. changes resolution or color-depth.

The second screen is completely independant to the first one. I often use 800x600 on the second one (PAL TV)

However... It would be cooool if Civ3 would support Multimonitoring in some way...
(so you are able to move the stat screen, or else to the second screen)

SerapisIV · August 16, 2001, 15:39

Does anyone know of a webtutorial somewhere that will explain how to set up dual monitors. I recently upgraded video cards and have an extra card lying around, so I'm thinking of trying. Also, those of you who use Win98 and dual monitors on two different video cards, any instability problems?

Jarouik · August 16, 2001, 17:08

Quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV
Does anyone know of a webtutorial somewhere that will explain how to set up dual monitors. I recently upgraded video cards and have an extra card lying around, so I'm thinking of trying. Also, those of you who use Win98 and dual monitors on two different video cards, any instability problems?

I don't know of any tutorial, but there really is no need for one - provided that your video cards work correctly with the dual monitor feature (and most do), setting up dual monitors is as easy as installing the second card to your computer and booting up. (If you have one AGP and one PCI card, you will probably be able to select in system BIOS which one of the cards will be used as primary, which is the card used for full-screen games, DOS etc.) Anyway, when you boot, once you have installed the drivers for the second card, you just go to Display Properties and select the Settings tab - it should now have a picture of two displays, and you just need to click on the second display and select Extend Windows desktop onto this monitor.

As for instability problems, before upgrading to Windows 2000 I used dual monitors in Windows 98 with two different video cards (a Voodoo3 2000 PCI and a lousy integrated SiS 530 AGP controller, with Voodoo3 as primary) for over a year and had no problems whatsoever. I don't know, however, if other people have encountered stability issues with the feature.

OneFootInTheGrave · August 16, 2001, 20:11

No stability issues for me either. You can buy a PCI card for 25£ which is really handy if you have a spare monitor.

tniem · August 17, 2001, 15:33

For those that want a step by step guide:

http://www.help.com/cat/2/191/192/193/hto/125/1.html

It details it for 98 and should be helpful for all Windows based OS

CapTVK · August 17, 2001, 16:07

Not to be a spoilsport or anything but the original question hasn't been answered. So Mike can run Civ3 on one screen and a debugger on the other, so? That isn't news, many programmers already use that one for years. Hell, on some non-window OS's with a commercial X-window manager you can do 4 or more if you want. (if you have the space of course

)

The only thing that's certain now is that Civ3 will run safely on a multiple monitor setup. Now back to the original question...

The original poster also wanted to know if Civ3 could be run OVER TWO MONITORS. Meaning: "can I have the map screen running in one screen and the diplomacy, city mngt windows on the other"?

That question still hasn't been answered.

BlastDuke · August 17, 2001, 18:11

A really good Multi-Monitor website can be found at:

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon

You will find answers to nearly all your questions and there is also a great database of already working dual-monitor-systems.

Al'Kimiya · August 17, 2001, 20:07

Quote:

Originally posted by CapTVK

The original poster also wanted to know if Civ3 could be run OVER TWO MONITORS. Meaning: "can I have the map screen running in one screen and the diplomacy, city mngt windows on the other"?

actually, I didn't mean that, and I'm pretty sure we won't be able to...

CapTVK · August 18, 2001, 18:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Al'Kimiya

actually, I didn't mean that, and I'm pretty sure we won't be able to...

If that's the case then Civ3 is a step backwards on that account. Civ2 truly was windows based. meaning you could shrink/expand individual windows, move them over the screen, hide them under each other etc....

There was actually a discussion on this a year back (wasn't AH the protagonist in that particular case?) that it should be window based and not full screen so people could use their own messenger services, browser at the same time.

The fact that Civ3 isn't a true windows program, bit of an irony there

, might have something to do with the fact that it requires DirectX8 which doesn't seem to offer much for multiple monitors anyway. Trouble for me is that I use WinNT 4.0 which only supports DirectX3. Civ2MP works like a charm on NT but I know for certain that Civ3 won't. If someone can inform me otherwise I'll be a contend man.

I mean, why does Civ3 need DX8 anyway? It isn't as if Civ3 is pushing polygons to the limit, is it?

Jarouik · August 19, 2001, 06:52

Quote:

Originally posted by CapTVK
The fact that Civ3 isn't a true windows program, bit of an irony there

, might have something to do with the fact that it requires DirectX8 which doesn't seem to offer much for multiple monitors anyway. Trouble for me is that I use WinNT 4.0 which only supports DirectX3. Civ2MP works like a charm on NT but I know for certain that Civ3 won't. If someone can inform me otherwise I'll be a contend man.

I mean, why does Civ3 need DX8 anyway? It isn't as if Civ3 is pushing polygons to the limit, is it?

While I agreed a while ago that the best way to do Civilization would be in windowed mode (and still do), I can see the reasons for making Civ3 a full-screen DirectX game.

Displaying and drawing graphics in a window is slower than doing it full-screen with DirectX. The game is every bit as much a true Windows program as any else - it has just been designed to run in full-screen mode, as you certainly are aware that most games are. I am certain that if Civ3 were to draw the same kind of graphics inside a window, it would either be a lot slower and more unplayable or take a year or so further testing and optimising to make the windowed mode work fast enough... and yes, the graphics, while a subject of debate, are in my opinion a lot better (or at least look more sophisticated and therefore require more computing power

) than those of CTP, and I can understand why they wanted to use the latest DirectX - even SMAC, with considerably simpler (or lower-resolution and color depth) graphics, required DirectX 6.

An additional reason, of course, is that by relying on standard Windows interface elements and displaying the game inside a window, while admittedly handy in a game as complex as Civ, does take away a lot of liberty in designing the game interface and certainly diminishes the feeling of immersion into the game world. I think there is also a bit of marketing involved in the decision to run the game full-screen. Therefore, I am content with Firaxis' decision with full-screen, as long as you can run other programs alongside it on other displays with no problems...