Armagedon observatory

Bereta_Eder · January 19, 2001, 08:57

Having enjoyed my first nuke fest some obervations (maybe there are written 1.000 times before but still)

1. No matter how many nuclears you use and no matter the pollution they cause there is NO GLOBAL WARMING (unlike civ 1).

2. The AI clears the pollution you caused around their cities but very slowly.

3. The AI knows if you have SDI and will not use nukes if all your cities have one

4. The AI will not even use nukes to blow away units that are not protected inside the 3 square radious of your SDIs

5. A nuke does not destroy a size 1 city. ( I nuked babpedi around 5 times but I had to use a paratrooper)

Can you please confirm the above?

Carolus Rex · January 19, 2001, 09:03

3. and 4. confirmed!

Addition to 4: cities within 3 squares of a city with SDI are also protected by the SDI. The AI will continuously nuke it, though.

Are you sure about 1.?

Carolus

Carolus Rex · January 19, 2001, 09:09

Oops! Misread 4. Thought you meant units within 3 squares of the city square...

In a recent thread people reported units in the field being nuked by the AI. Never seen it myself, though.

Another piece of info. When you nuke units in the ocean, there is no pollution.

Edited: Typo.

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited January 19, 2001).]

Bereta_Eder · January 19, 2001, 09:14

I had 25 (visible) polluted squares for 1980 untill 1999 and global warming didn't occur. The amount of all polluted aquares was hugely larger. The yellow circle would appear one turn and dissapear the other

Ming · January 19, 2001, 09:15

Yes CR... Some people have reported having Naval units nuked by the AI. Like you, I have NEVER seen an AI nuke anything but a city.

And to your point about the AI nuking cities without an SDI but fall under the protection of another city that does have one... This is a great strategy for making the AI waste it's production. Just build a city within range of another city that has one. The AI will just keep building more very expensive to produce nukes, and waste them trying to nuke that city. Another classic example of how stupid the AI really is. They are given the cheat ability to know which city has an SDI, but not smart enough to know that a city is protected by another cities SDI... just plain silly

Carolus Rex · January 19, 2001, 09:15

Oops again!

Come to think of it, that means there is a conflict between 3. and 4.! If 4. is correct (as reported by others), then 3. cannot be true...

Sorry for messing things up! Think I'm gonna stay out of this thread!

Carolus

Bereta_Eder · January 19, 2001, 09:28

quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 01-19-2001 08:15 AM</font>
Yes CR... Some people have reported having Naval units nuked by the AI. Like you, I have NEVER seen an AI nuke anything but a city.

I have read these threads as well. During the whole nuclear campaign I left a battleship near the enemy's coast (not within any of my sdi radious) and it survived unscorched! Note: it was stacked with an AEGIS for their cruise missiles.

Carolus, don't go away! What I mean with 3. is that if ALL of your cities have SDI the AI will not use nuclear at ANYTHING. Not even a warrior next to them!
This is what happened to that game. (my english are not very good)

P.S. Just to illustrate AI silliness, they recaptured one of there cities when I forgot to rush built the second paratrooper. SO they had an excellent opporunity to acquire The LASER (SDI) and be able to protect their cities. Guess what they chose? Super conductor (SS Module) for AC.
[This message has been edited by paiktis22 (edited January 19, 2001).]

Blaupanzer · January 19, 2001, 10:08

Not a big fan of nuclear war in Civ. However, I find number 1. to be unlikely. Logically, the routine for determining the number of polluted squares over time would not be programmed to be sensitive to which squares were polluted by nukes and which were not. Global warming IS slower to develop in Civ II, but a much bigger event if it happens. Can anyone verify that nuclear pollution is treated differently in the Civ II global warming formula than ordinary pollution?

East Street Trader · January 19, 2001, 11:22

IIRC in the one and only game I've had in which global warming occurred the AI nuked me a couple of times.

But:

1. It was a long time ago - several years - so I may be misremembering.

2. Maybe the global warming only seemed connected with the fallout pollution when, in fact, there was already enough pollution from other sources to cause it.

Seems odd if fallout pollution doesn't count.

Even as it is, pace Smokey and co., the adverse consequences to the player who resorts to nukes could do with a bit of beefing up.

Smokey tha nuke man · January 19, 2001, 17:07

pakitis22, 1 is wrong. every time i get in to a nuke fest, global warming occurs.

EST- what da hell are ya trying ta say. "blah blah blah pace smokey and co., blah blah blah adverse effects blah blah need beefing up" y'all ta-rying ta make nukes worse ta use. that would jes suck. if anything, i think nukes need mpore power. any city, any size, one nuke makes it go bye-bye. and death to the accursed sdi

. may it burn in hell forever.
------------------
"our words are backed by nuclear weapons"
"oh, yeah. well, our nukes are backed by 100%money back guarantee, so there."
[This message has been edited by Smokey tha nuke man (edited January 19, 2001).]

Bereta_Eder · January 19, 2001, 21:37

quote:

Originally posted by East Street Trader on 01-19-2001 10:22 AM

Seems odd if fallout pollution doesn't count.

Ah me poor english. What's fallout pollution? The pollution created by factories and crammed up cities?

It was really strange. Nuking everybody like a 21 century Nero and no global warming. I was prepared to go with them but nope.

The AI doesn't pollute as far as I know and there was no pollution from AI nukes 'caused they didn't launch any.

Maybe the percentages worked all these turns in my favor regarding global warming?
Could I have been so lucky?

Smokey do you play 2.42 or MGE?

Bereta_Eder · January 19, 2001, 21:40

quote:

Originally posted by Blaupanzer on 01-19-2001 09:08 AM
Can anyone verify that nuclear pollution is treated differently in the Civ II global warming formula than ordinary pollution?

That is the question.

Theben · January 20, 2001, 23:01

I always do my damndest to avoid global warming, so I really can't comment, other than I think you are mistaken somehow.

But if what you say truly happened, you should go back and gather some information. CivII likes to have things happen in patterns, like the "1 turn anarchy" pattern for rebelling that was discovered.

Perhaps you've found an instance where the AI checks for % to have global warming and always=no. Perhaps it's on a patterned number of turns. Perhaps too many polluted squares flips out the AI into not causing GW. Perhaps I'm wildly guessing. Perhaps.

Sergeant Sheets · January 20, 2001, 23:48

The AI will only nuke a unit at sea or at large if you go to CHEAT and 'beam' an AI nuke near one of your units and the nuke is away from their cities. Furthermore, barbarians can evolve to build nukes if you let their cities exist for thousands of years. I've never seen it happen cause I haven't played that much CIV 2. However, I hypothesis that it may be able to happen.

Essentially, nuclear warfare with the AI is like a pro football team playing the local junior high- a vast mismatch of talent and ability.

Personally, a nuclear arsenal should be harder than 160 shields to produce and an SDI, likewise, should be harder than 300. However, that's the way things are and things work well anyhow, cause the fun to Civ 2 is in the ancient combat. Modern combat is too much of a stalemate unless you know some trick to the enemy.

------------------
"Every time I hear the name "Sergent Sheets" I picture a blanket
with portraits of Patton, Einsenhower, MacArthur, and other WWII leaders."
The Brain

"One is never too old to die young." Sgt. Sheets

"The only thing greater than the United State of America is you."
FREE YYYH and Stewart Spink
We shall never forget!!

Thoth · January 21, 2001, 09:35

quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22 on 01-19-2001 08:37 PM
Ah me poor english. What's fallout pollution? The pollution created by factories and crammed up cities?

Maybe the percentages worked all these turns in my favor regarding global warming?
Could I have been so lucky?

Fallout pollution is the pollution created when a nuclear missile explodes.

In your game where you did not get global warming, had you built a lot of Solar Plants? These increase the planet's pollution tollerance, so that it takes more polluted squares to cause global warming.

Bereta_Eder · January 21, 2001, 12:35

quote:

Originally posted by Theben on 01-20-2001 10:01 PM
But if what you say truly happened, you should go back and gather some information.

Why should I lie?

The info is accurate , I remember 'cause I posted it 30 minutes after the end of the game. I shared it with you because it
it is really strange to have a nuke fest with no GW.

Thoth, maybe you have found the answer... All my cities had solar plants. Maybe having solar plants in 12 cities can NEGATE GW??

SandMonkey · January 21, 2001, 14:45

Didn't somebody figure out that after so many solar plants (5 or 6?) that global warming will effectively never happen?

January 21, 2001, 16:40

each solar plant takes away 1/2 of a pollution square from global warming i think.

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- SilverDragon, scourge of the western skies

Email me at
SilverDragon141@aol.com

La Fayette · January 22, 2001, 10:06

Smokey
I have neither built nor seen a nuke on my screen for years, but the way you talk about them makes me LOL.
Thank you.

Smokey tha nuke man · January 22, 2001, 18:27

sure, no problem

cubbyphan1138 · January 22, 2001, 19:25

I just ran some tests with nukes and they do definitely cause global warming, but it might be a little slower than normal pollution. It's been awhile since I had global warming in a regular game.

Bereta_Eder · January 23, 2001, 14:10

quote:

Originally posted by cubbyphan1138 on 01-22-2001 06:25 PM
I just ran some tests with nukes and they do definitely cause global warming, but it might be a little slower than normal pollution. It's been awhile since I had global warming in a regular game.

I think we have already established that (courtesy of Smokey tha nuke). Does it happen slower than normal pollution? But the question is if solar plants (and if yes at which number) can actually prevent the world from ever experience global warming.

drake · January 23, 2001, 14:16

So Smokey, whens the multiplayer nuke fest going to be played?

Sergeant Sheets · January 23, 2001, 19:02

Nuclear war is like rape- only fun for the one giving it, not taking it. I don't like nuke fests.

------------------
"Every time I hear the name "Sergent Sheets" I picture a blanket
with portraits of Patton, Einsenhower, MacArthur, and other WWII leaders."
The Brain

"One is never too old to die young." Sgt. Sheets

"The only thing greater than the United State of America is you."
FREE YYYH and Stewart Spink
We shall never forget!!

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 23, 2001, 20:52

quote:

Originally posted by Sergeant Sheets on 01-23-2001 06:02 PM
Nuclear war is like rape- only fun for the one giving it, not taking it. I don't like nuke fests.

Oh, now that's nice.

STYOM

War4ever · January 24, 2001, 01:27

Have i ever mentioned that i am a nuke fan

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Back from hell....i have nothing to lose

debeest · January 24, 2001, 03:36

Thank you, STYOM.

SilexMT · January 29, 2001, 21:39

quote:

<font size=1>Originally posted by Sergeant Sheets on 01-23-2001 06:02 PM</font>
Nuclear war is like rape- only fun for the one giving it, not taking it. I don't like nuke fests.

Morality: always endeavour to be the one who gives it. But I guess this goes for conventional warfare as well. It's the Golden Rule: Do unto others before they do unto you.

In confirmation of 1): I've personnally had a nuclear slugfest provoking GW, and it was not industrial fallout. I don't remember if I had solar plants though.
[This message has been edited by SilexMT (edited January 29, 2001).]

Theben · January 31, 2001, 05:51

paiktis,

The 12 solar plants will indeed have an effect on global warming, but I do not know to what extent. AFAIK, 1 solar plant= -1 polluted square.

Let me be clear on this though: nuclear pollution and industrial pollution are exactly the same as far as the AI is concerned. If something odd happened, the cause lies elsewhere.

SS: Barbarians can evolve to building nukes, but only under a heavily modified modpack or scenario. Not in the standard game.

East Street Trader · January 31, 2001, 07:11

I recall reading once of a player who, just for fun, gifted a stealth fighter to the barbs.

What happened in the game is that the fighter took off but then just moved ahead until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Which fits rather nicely with the way the guy imagined it might have gone in reality.

A group of bizarely dressed characters approach the strange looking thing; then someone says, "Wonder what happens if you press this thing here?"; followed by a loud WOOSH which leaves an even more puzzled looking barb, trying to work out how to steer with his kness while looking down at a world moving past a tad quicker than it does on horseback!.

Maybe he'd have enough time to try to figure out how he's meant to be able to shoot his bow from inside the cockpit!