The Death Of A Once Proud Game

StrategicKing2 · August 18, 2001, 23:49

2 months left of Civ 2 being a main stream game. The reports on Civ 3 have been very encouraging . The game should produce engagements that are not the same old thing. Aparently that have created many things that will allow the participants to grow differently and develop unique charachteristics.
After all these years, Civ 2 can finally be laid to rest, burried, as the extremely flawed and really boring game that it has become.
Then, Oct 17th, 'ding" "ding", put the gloves on and come out fighting for civ 3 supremity, which, If I were a betting man, my money would be on me, and as always.....................................
Its True, Oh..Its True

cavebear · August 19, 2001, 16:21

If Civ3 is really the improvment that people are hoping it will be, then I will be delighted.

However, I don't have the same negative opinion of Civ2 as you. Are there some flaws? Yes. And I think that more effort could have been put into producing patches to solve them. But the game itself, warts and all, is still enjoyable, challenging, and well-balanced between construction and war.

I have no interest in real-time shoot-em-up games, and I grew bored with the bizarre things one has to try in quest games (doing the waltz on floor tiles or pushing buttons in sequences, etc) a long time ago. The Sim series of games never quite provided what I was looking for.

A game like Civ was exactly what I needed. I was delighted to discover it, enjoyed months of challenge getting to Deity level in SP, and had many more months of pleasure gaining some level of competency at MP.

Not bad for $34.95.

I will probably continue to play it after Civ3 comes out, and I expect others will, too. Oh, I fully intend to get Civ3 as soon as it comes out, and I may like it a lot more than Civ2. But I may not, either; it depends on what the changes are.

I expect that Civ3 will suffer many of the same problems as Civ2. Most of them are inherent in simply having the game available for internet play. People will always find ways to get into some of the files, they will discover uses for the rules (or ways around them) that were not intended by the programmers, and they will go to great lengths to figure out the formulas that control the game play so that they can just "win" the game rather than "play" it.

I will be the first to admit that the last part (win rather than play) is a very fine line with no easy definition. Most of the discussions regarding "fair play" revolve around where to place the line. It is perfectly legitimate to try and learn how Chariots are likely to fare against Pikesmen and how the terrain differences operate, but things like learning how to freeze a bomber in the air across turns is different. And no one will ever find a way to keep a determined cheater from using a 2nd computer, for example.

But the game has been worth playing, and it is still worth playing.

And there are still a couple of months left!

SlowwHand · August 19, 2001, 16:25

Do you ever bore even yourself, Strat?

cavebear · August 19, 2001, 16:44

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Do you ever bore even yourself, Strat?

I would expect so; why should he be any different from the rest of us? If his persona is *not* a put-on, than he should have a long talk with Dr. Freud...

StrategicKing2 · August 20, 2001, 00:00

Bore myself? Never! I am the thriller from the mean streets of Detriot Michigan. The show stopper extrodinaire! The most electrafying man in Civ playing History!
A legend in my own time, looked up to and reveared by the hundreds, and hundreds of his fans as they chant his name, Strate, Strate, Strate!!!!!
The eight time Game league Champion, a leader by example the envy of the Civ world and that is true, its true.

Smash · August 20, 2001, 01:11

You watch too much wrestling.

Ming · August 20, 2001, 09:10

SlowwHand · August 20, 2001, 10:35

The "8 time raper of newbies" award?
You're still going on about that "accomplishment"?

Sad, very sad.

Would it be possible to purchase a life for Strat?

No? What about a cheap rental?

drake · August 20, 2001, 11:43

Rasputin · August 20, 2001, 21:07

When you going to paly a MP game Strat and put your reputation where your mouth is. Not a duel but a real MP game, multi session not jsut one.....

StrategicKing2 · August 21, 2001, 22:27

Rasputin, I would be happy to play a multiplayer game. However, I now only play 2x2 as this is how this game is supposed to be played. And I will not play a serious game with a randomly generated map, as I have never seen one that is fair to all players. And if you really want to play a serious game, remove the huts. Get 5 other players to play this type of game and I would be eager to play.
Oh yeah, none of that no bribing crap...The game was designed with bribing as a direct counter to fundamentalism and as major advantage of democracy.

Rasputin · August 21, 2001, 23:03

ok wheres the link to where the game designers say tha tthe game was meant to be played in 2x2x, if that is so why wasnt that option given for single play too.

No bribing is ok by me.. a map made my an independant is ok too. but i prefer all players to have no knowledge of it....

As for huts i totally agree....

Ok so can we get 5 more players !!!!!! perhpas the aussie crowd might be itnerested AH, Hydey, Deity, Lowang, Finbar ?????

StrategicKing2 · August 22, 2001, 11:07

We dont need 5 more, just as many as we can get 4 or 5 total players would do. I agree, no knowledge of the board, but equal size and resources on each cont.
When i say 2 x 2 is the way the game was designed is because of the 5 and 10 principle. In 2 x 2 it is easier to get a city to produce 5 or 10 resources thus making it much faster to build units and construction projects.

drake · August 22, 2001, 13:09

Quote:

However, I now only play 2x2 as this is how this game is supposed to be played.

Thats a good one I like it!

cavebear · August 22, 2001, 21:37

2x2x, no huts, wide open bribing. Yes, that is *surely* the profile of an all-around master!

Retreating into specificity is the sign of a player obsessed with finding a winning formula that can be followed blindly with success. What's next? Forbidding Marketplaces because someone somewhere might know how to use them better than you? Or submarines? Ooh, I know, you'll object to those horrible (but "unmanly" solar plants!

C'mon Strat, if you were that confident in your overall skills in MP competition, you wouldn't have dodged participating in the 2001 Player's Tourney, where, if you won, you could mention it in every post.

StrategicKing2 · August 23, 2001, 00:37

Cavebear, I dont make alot of specifications other then just to remove two of the biggest luck factors out of the game, bad starting positions as I refuse to play a game for 6 hours plus if I was set up to fail by the freaking computer or by huts that could doom you just as fast. Bribing IS part of the game. It IS there for many reasons including:
1) to force maruding horseman to double up or be purchased
2) to prevent a small force from taking and holding citys deep in another civs territory
3) to prevent 1 unit from occupying an unattackable position.
4) to limit the power of fundamentalism
5) a major benifit to democracy
6) to prevent the easy construction of a "fortress europa" defense
Bribing is a highly developed skill that most players have not mastered and thus it is THEM not me that wish to specify rules.

StrategicKing2 · August 23, 2001, 01:08

Oh, and far as the tournyment goes, It has been a perfect summer in Southeast Michigan and I have been playing golf to my fingers bled was the summer of 2001 . Katie quit, jody got married should have known we never get far.....oppps sorry little classic rock there...
Also, new girl ocupies a lot of my time and i am remodeling my house not to mention a couple vacations.
So, as much as I wanted to crush the competition, what can I say, I is a busy guy whos time is in demand.
Oh, and still running a business and trying to build my fantasy football team into a winner.

Rasputin · August 23, 2001, 05:35

youhave time for all that, and hold your skill workshop to teach us all the right strategy, time for this challenge MP game but not time for the Official Best of Challenge ... Hmmmmm!!!

Anyway , once I see 5 others interested in a game i might join, I may even let you win !!!!

StrategicKing2 · August 23, 2001, 16:21

What can I say, its just the kind of sacrafice that i am willing to make because I am a leader by example.

Rasputin · August 24, 2001, 08:52

Quote:

Originally posted by StrategicKing2
What can I say, its just the kind of sacrafice that i am willing to make because I am a leader by example.

good for you Strat ... Now lead by examply and post here your Strategy for MP game winning !!!