xxxo xxxo xxxo ...

[inca911]

I see all those xxxo xxxo xxxo and I'm thinking "hugs and kisses"?!? Nice find! As a newbie OCCer, can you walk me through the instant revolution process? Are you saying that you can have a revolution to a new government form and have 0 turns of disorder on those years marked in the table? If so, is there any significance to when the government allowing technology is discovered, or do you simply discover the tech whenever and wait to revolt at those specific years? Thanks, oedo, for the find and for putting in the work to do the testing!

[SCG]

heh, that was my first thought too, inca911. As for how it works, say you are due to discover monarchy in the year 3100BC. If you look at the chart, 3050BC is a target year. that means if you discover monarchy in 3150 and revolt, you will have 1 full turn of anarchy. If however, you drop science slightly so that you discover it in 3050, you can discover it and form the government in the same year. You also could discover it in 3150 and revolt in 3100, and only get the 1 turn of anarchy, and that might be a better choice if you just missed a target date with democracy (say found it in 950AD). You could either lower science to discover it in 980AD revolt and form in 980, or go ahead and discover demo in 950, but wait till 970 to revolt, either way, you'll form a demo in 980, even if you revolt in 950.

[rah]

I can't see delaying the development of a science, since you could be storing beakers for the next tech.
Only one possible exception.
If you can plan it so that your capital is the city that supplies the last beakers necessary for discovery on the right turn, no city will produce as in anarchy, since your capital (moves last unless you've changed capitals)will produced under the former type of government (as will all the cities that moved prior) and you go straight into the new government. There may be a few situations where this would be better than discovering on the previous turn. More likely it will make you try to maximize science (and screw production/food) in order not to miss one of the cut off dates.

RAH
I hope this makes sense. I know what I'm trying to say but when I read it back, I hope i've explained it properly.

[SCG]

Yes, kcbob, that is a situation where multiple cities plays a factor. You would have to weigh the number of beakers that would be produced the rest of the turn vs the other benefits. Such as can you discover a second tech before the end of the turn or not? Will you produce more beakers under the new government than in the potential time of anarchy? If you are switching out of a representative government, you may not and want those extra beakers while you still can get them. In other cases, maybe not. And if you are strapped for cash, maybe delaying the science would be best here, since you do have the potential for additional cash revenue without wasting significant science, since all trade is lost in anarchy and the longer you delay anarchy in a round the less total trade is wasted.

[jpk]

Change the Statue of Liberty to the Statue of OEDO!

[Shadowstrike]

In that case, we could just make a Apolyton mod pack with civilizations like the all-powerful Mings, led by Ming (who else) and wit their capital at Mingapulco.... OK, maybe I am getting carried away...

[Alinestra Covelia]

Hang on, hang on...

So what does this mean? Does this mean that once I've discovered a tech leading to a new government form, I can revolt at these dates (eg 3100 BC, 3050 BC) for an anarchy-free transition? Or do I have to doctor it so that I discover the tech these turns as well?

If so, why?

[Confused Allie]

[Tom DeMille]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia on 08-22-2000 02:00 PM Hang on, hang on... So what does this mean? Does this mean that once I've discovered a tech leading to a new government form, I can revolt at these dates (eg 3100 BC, 3050 BC) for an anarchy-free transition? Or do I have to doctor it so that I discover the tech these turns as well? If so, why? [Confused Allie]

To get a revolt free transition, you have to discover the government tech (and revolt immediately) on one of those turns. Otherwise, you will have to wait at least a turn.

[Carolus Rex]

Almost the nail in the coffin for SoL if I read this thread right. Hence my question: Can you make the change between any types of governments that you already have discovered during those turns?

SoL would still have one advantage, though. Works every turn...

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

I don't know if I've read this thread right, but...

It seemed to me that the logical step was to try it even when you have the government techs already and not only when you discover them.

So I loaded up an old save as the Romans, a 1040 AD democracy. Revolution in 1040 AD, get the option to pick a government in 1080/1100.

Next try, revolution in 1080 and get to pick my government the next turn (1100).

So it seems you don't have to discover the tech, you can do it with techs you already have.

The nail in the coffin for SoL (which still has one advantage though)?

BTW, not sure when a turn ends or starts.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

What the heck???

I sent my first post hours ago and couldn't read it afterwards. I get home, try it out, post and now I can see it???

What's with Apolyton today?

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Test.

Carolus

[Smash]

I dont know.It seems to be occuring with more frequency.Server probs or whatever.

These are just the turns on which government changes will occur.Nothing more.You don't have to fulfil any "scenario".Just know if you revolt in 3800BC you will not switch until 3650BC.

I don't think its the end of the SoL.It still allows early access to Commie and/or Fundy.You don't have to wait any turns for xxx0.Still good when the senate says "NO war" and anarchy becomes a part of the battle plan.

No more 2 or 3 turn revolutions.Its a good thing.

[DaveV]

CR - the difference is, if you had discovered a tech which provided a new government in 1100, you would have been given the option to revolt at the start of your turn. If you accepted, you would have had your choice of available governments immediately with no anarchy whatsoever. Even better than SoL!

[rah]

DaveV. You will experience Anarchy in any city that is processed after the city that provides the beakers for the discovery. So the only time that you won't experience any anarchy is when the capital is the city that provides the beakers. If the First city provides the beakers and you choose to revolt all of the rest of your cities will produce in Anarchy for that turn.

RAH

[SCG]

Just one other tidbit reguarding same turn government changes. If your capitol/last city is the one that produces the final beaker for the govt tech and is currently in WL (We Love) status, it doesn't fall out of WL status, meaning if you don't need an extra turn for that city to reenter WL

As an example, you are in We Love the King Day, discover republic, revolt and form a republic on one of the target days, the following turn, that city will grow if it has extra food, rather than waiting to re enter WL. Not sure whether a growing republic city would grow the turn of the revolt or not, but it could continue growing the next turn in democracy if that was the gov change and there still was excess food

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[SCG]

makes sense to me anyway

I can think of one situation where you would want to delay 1 round in all cases. That would be with exactly 1 city and you are a round early discovering the govt. tech.

if you discover a round early, you will have to go into anarchy for a round, losing both science and taxes. If you wait an extra round to discover the government, you essentially gain a free round of taxes since you don't have to go into anarchy at all.

For more than 1 round, or for more than 1 city, it becomes more of a tradeoff or a guessing game. And yes, if your capitol/final city is the city to discover the tech, it will be equivalent to the situation with only 1 city.

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[kcbob]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by rah on 08-22-2000 11:07 AM</font> I can't see delaying the development of a science, since you could be storing beakers for the next tech.

I thought the discovery of a technology wiped the beaker counter clean. Are you referring to a discovery in the middle of a turn, i.e., lots of cities, a few build improvements, etc., you discover the next technology, and then the rest of your cities finish their turn?

I think that might be what you're talking about. I guess I've never peeked at the beaker count after that chain of events.

------------------
Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Ming]

After having a chance to use this info now in both SP and MP games, I only have one thing to say...

WHY IS THREAD DROPPING LIKE A ROCK??????
It' the most important new information in a long time.

(actually, just wanted to bump this thread )

[rah]

Yes, I've used it in my last couple of MP games and it has made a difference. In the last one, I couldn't squeeze enough beakers out to hit monarchy on the right turn. So instead of accepting the revolt option when it was offered, I waited the three turns, and got another tech since I wasn't in anarchy, revolted and was back in business. This is great.

RAH

[Smash]

I nailed 2 0f my 3 government changes in OCC 16.Especially good was Republic to Demo. I was celebrating in Republic and because of an "instant" revolution,my "we love" carried over and I didn't have to restart it.

xxx0 saved me at least 6 turns in OCC 16.Gotta like it.

[SmartFart]

Congratulations!

Both for finding and sharing this little gem.
It's been awhile since someone discovered something new besides lag cheat.

[Scouse Gits]

Sorry oedo - there is now absolutely no chance of this not getting out to the Game Zone guys - many congratulations upon your discovery but this must go into the Great Library.
___________
The SGs in concert
"The Great Library must be built"

[oedo]

hihi, I always had the impression, there´s no better place to hide something from the zonies than this wonderful forum

the coming games will bring me an answer

[rah]

Sorry berz, but I must tell this one.

With the chart in front of him tonight, Berzerker revolted TWICE in the wrong year. It was good for amusement.

RAH
And to make it worse, he said he knew about this prior to Odeo's post but figured it was common Knowledge.

Apologies again Berzerker, but it was entertaining when you told us about it.

[War4ever]

Well Oedo, nicely done , its people like yourself who make this forum so interesting. I can't believe we are still finding out new information about this game.... talk about a classic I think the spinoff debates and new leads are interesting as well... damm i too tired to think straight..... so no great big questions from me..... but i will check this out tomorrow night



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Ah its good to be back.... i smell the fear of opponents being stalked and i tremble as they turn to face me. i hope i remember how to play!

[Chow Yun Fat]

Oedo, THANK YOU!
Can you share with us how you discover this piece of information?
I regret not checking through ALL threads in strategy forums now.
So simple, yet so useful. I feel like cheating to use this on unsuspected opponents!

[Smash]

Hmmm...a buddy has been playing a game here while I "walk" him thru(sorta).I check on his civ every hour or so.Anyway,he steals Commie in 1901 and I tell him to wait and revolt in 1902.He did,1903 came and went without a change.Change happened in 1906 indicating revolt should have been done in 1901.

Might have to double check some of those later dates.I think the change in years at 1850 might count as a 2 year increment.Unless I was halucinating(possible)

I know 1903 revolts aren't gonna happen all that often but you never know...

[DaveV]

Smash - was your buddy playing at King, or lower, difficulty? I had the same problem in MacUser's MP game at King level - the turn intervals aren't the same. What we need now is for some ambitious person to cook up tables for the lower difficulty levels...

[Smash]

Yes! He was on king level and my "list" is for deity.

duh