Gnp

debeest · August 22, 2000, 19:53

This pales in comparison to Oedo's recent discovery about revolution dates, but it is something that I don't think anyone else has noted yet. The F11 key gives data on "GNP." I've long been curious as to exactly what it represents, and now I believe I've figured out how it's calculated, and it's pretty simple. "GNP" = (gold + (2 x luxuries)) per turn, times $1M. (The purple civilization always has an outrageously inflated GNP which I'm told is just a bug.) I haven't tested this out thoroughly, so please let me know if I'm wrong.

DaveV · August 23, 2000, 07:49

debeest - close, but not quite. I loaded up three old games, with the following results (no luxuries nor elvii in any of the games):

Game 1: 39 gold income, 3 gold expenses. GNP = $43 million.

Game 2: 20 gold income, 13 gold expenses. GNP = $34 million.

Game 3: 7 gold income, 0 expenses. GNP = $11 million.

Ribannah · August 23, 2000, 09:25

GNP is probably based on total trade. Try changing science percentages etc.

- Rib -

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debeest · August 24, 2000, 00:29

DaveV, I read your message with disappointment, loaded up another old game, and found a discrepancy much like what you cite. Rats! Then I loaded up about 15-20 more old games, and in every case, the GNP was exactly $1M x ((luxuries x 2) + tax). So I went back and checked the game that had looked wrong, and lo and behold, there were two Elvii that exactly accounted for the discrepancy. So I would bet that in the three games you checked, there are actually 2, 7, and 2 luxuries somewhere, respectively. The formula held up in small, medium, and large games, and at early and middle stages of the game (I didn't check any really late games, because I've mostly played ICS and I didn't feel like totting up the luxuries for 50-100 cities).

debeest · February 12, 2001, 16:40

I haven't been playing much lately, but now I've started a new game, and I happened to check in on the GNP. $51 million. Checked my economic adviser. 45 gp per turn. Hmmm. Didn't think I had any luxuries, but lo and behold. One Elvis with a market place, producing three luxuries. My formula appears to be correct.

February 12, 2001, 19:06

The incredibly high GNP of pruple civs is indeed a bug, which is fixed in MGE though... it's not in FW, however

and I think it is in TOT (fixed, that is)

War4ever · February 12, 2001, 19:34

its not fixed in MGE.... but then i usually play as the mongols so i dont notice it as much.. in calculating gnp make sure to include corruption

February 12, 2001, 20:09

I thought it is fixed in MGE... OK, my mistake... I'm sure it#s fixed in TOT though.

debeest · February 13, 2001, 23:55

War4ever -- nope, it's truly a simple formula, and corruption isn't part of it.

[income + (2 x luxuries)] per turn

Income is from the bottom of the economic adviser screen (F5). I don't think luxuries are totaled anywhere; you'd have to scroll through all the city screens one by one and add them up, but now you don't have to

.

Winston · February 14, 2001, 10:52

Nice observation, deebest. Amazing the secrets this game holds after so many cumulated hours of playing. Well, one more secret down...

Roman · February 17, 2001, 10:16

Good job, I have always been wondering how GNP and other statistics are derived in CivII.

jcarkey · February 18, 2001, 01:09

Now if you could only find the formulas for the other stats...

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If someone doesn't agree with you, you haven't explained yourself well enough-Luther Ely Smith

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War4ever · February 18, 2001, 15:56

so corruption isnt included? Ok does this hold true then if you have corruption that is no longer? ie.... couthouse therefore three old corruption squares now become good trade......

Sorry, i can't think straight.... that looks dreadfull

Basically i am asking if corruption is considered a trade arrow in some round about way

ok i need to go now .......

La Fayette · February 19, 2001, 11:24

Congratulations, debeest.
All new findings about this tricky game are welcome.
Go on testing! I'm sure that the SGs and ST will back you too!
(What about a Tester's Club? Xin YU for president? No ballots allowed from Florida?)

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

debeest · February 20, 2001, 20:38

War4ever -- yes, if your courthouse frees up corruption arrows to become trade, then the increased trade will generally mean more tax income, in which case your GNP will increase a bit.

Blaupanzer · February 23, 2001, 17:45

To expand, corruption limits income and thus both taxes and luxuries. The GNP formula only considers trade and luxury arrows that actually appear on the city screens, not any "potential income" that is lost to corruption. All science income is apparently regarded as research, since it is not considered in the GNP formula.

These formulae (for the demographics screen) were all included in one or the other of the two strategy books that came out at the same time as the game, all those many years ago. I would think Ming, or the Scouse Gits, or some of the other old-timers would have those. Maybe it's more fun to rederive them anyway. Good work, debeest.