Vital New Info And Pictures Extracted From Cg Cover Story!

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 01:43

Here are some interesting tidbits of information i have dissected from both the articles and study of the pictures
-the MiG is NOT the Russian unique unit as previously thought, it is instead the cossack (!) (page 52)
-Grand Cathedral and Great University are confirmed as a minor wonders (page 49). This means that Newton's University and J.S Bach's Cathedral are out!
-If you trade a resource with another country, you, yourself cannot use that resource. So, if you trade horses with France you will need another horse resource square or else you will not be able to use things like Cavalry. (I'm not sure if this information is old or not. (page 50)
-Jeff Briggs makes an confusing comment "Persians get their Bowmen in the classical age..." (page 52)
This leaves us with a few possible propositions, either Jeffy Boy made a slight mistake in the interview, meaning of course the Babylonians instead, or the Persians have the same unique unit as the Babylonians, which isn't entirely impossible considering their geographic proximity, or maybe the Babylonian civ of the week page has actually been wrong all along. I'm guessing it was most likely a mistake, but we cannot rule out anything at this point.

Plus i have taken the trouble of scanning a few interesting pics from the article for my fellow Apolytoners, I appologize for the notably poor quality.
Here are the many phases of Abraham Lincoln
http://moonpies0.tripod.com/Lincoln.jpg
Here is a more clear picture of the German leader, Bismarck no doubt.
http://moonpies0.tripod.com/German.jpg

*Edit: After a whole embarassing episode with Geocities allowing people to access several year old web pages from my high school days, while trying to find the pictures I prudently decieded to move the pictures to a different host. I hope these work better!*

Alex 14 · September 3, 2001, 01:59

I thought it was a bit wrong to have to special air units at the same time.

jerkwaterbox · September 3, 2001, 02:00

your links are dead

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 02:10

Hmm, i clicked on them and they seemed to work. Anyone else having any problems with them?

jerkwaterbox · September 3, 2001, 02:19

i got them to work, but i had to go through your webpages main page and access them from there. wierd

java4me · September 3, 2001, 02:36

Off topic, are you Dustin, or a brother or friend of him. Sorry for intruding!!!

It is all curiosity!!!

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 02:48

LOL
I am indeed Dustin, did you look at a profile of mine somewhere? Monkspider is virtually my universal screen name.

On topic though, can anyone confirm that the German leader in question is Bismarck?

KrazyHorse · September 3, 2001, 02:49

Certainly looks like the man of Blood and Iron.

java4me · September 3, 2001, 02:52

Oh, so the one you call sarah hart (cutie) is your GF or friend?

Anyways back on topic, the German leader is Bismark!!!

KrazyHorse · September 3, 2001, 02:52

For those of you who haven't realised it yet, go to:

http://www.geocities.com/monkspider

then click on the "Lincoln" and "German" jpgs. Geocities (and, IIRC, Yahoo) homepages no longer allow direct linking to pictures hosted by them.

Lancer · September 3, 2001, 02:56

Weren't Cossacks Kievan, or Ukrainian, and usually fighting against the Russians?

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 02:59

LOL!!!!

How on EARTH do you know Sarah Hart?
To put it in civ terms though, we are on "Icy" diplomatic relations at best. I no longer have an embassy in her country, and she has most likely signed pacts with other girls to contain my aggression.
Have you and I met before my friend? This is truly odd beyond words.

On topic, I am relieved that there are no longer two modern age fighter plain CSUs.

KrazyHorse · September 3, 2001, 03:01

Well, you are NHS' 1999-2000 class president.

java4me · September 3, 2001, 03:03

Maybe somewhere in the past...

It all remains a mystery...

I am from cali just to let you know, and anyways it said Sarah Hart on the photo!!!

Maybe we have crossed paths!!! Here email me at java4me2002@hotmail.com!!!

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 03:04

*double post*

java4me · September 3, 2001, 03:12

Anyways it is late, so just email me, and I can talk to you better!!!

monkspider · September 3, 2001, 03:17

LOL!!!
Now I see what you all have been doing, I feel like a buffoon!

Those web pages are SEVERAL years old, I'm kind of glad you found them though, looking at them has taken me on a sentimental journey into my formulative high school years.

On topic though of course, what are everyone's thoughts on the Persian/Bowmen incident? And what time period the Cossack unit is going to appear in?

hetairoi22 · September 3, 2001, 07:11

The Cossacks could be an improved Dragoon/Horseman. What weapons did they use???

Maybe there's two Bowmen units???

MarkG · September 4, 2001, 05:13

LaRusso · September 4, 2001, 06:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Lancer
Weren't Cossacks Kievan, or Ukrainian, and usually fighting against the Russians?

Not really, they were a pretorian guard of Russian czars, rich peasant caste who acted as the first and last line of the defense of state and order. They lived on territories of present Russia and Ukraine. Bear in mind that Russia spawned from Kiev and Novgorod, not Moscow. Present borders can be deceptive.

I guess that 'Taras Bulba' by Gogol, itself set in Kiev, suggests that they were a Ukrainian bunch. Actually, they were a very isolated part of the society, with their own rules, morale, customs and ethics. They almost always managed to act as a coherent whole until the Revolution...

Martinus · September 4, 2001, 08:51

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso

Not really, they were a pretorian guard of Russian czars, rich peasant caste who acted as the first and last line of the defense of state and order.

Actually it is not true. Kossacks formed their own community (for the greater part of their history within the Eastern most territory of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Ethnically they were Ukrainian and originated at the time when Duchy of Moscow already started. So they have as much ethnical connection with Russians as, say, Polish or Lithuanians.

They were used a lot by the Polish monarchs and often revolted (famous Chmielnicki revolt in the middle of 17th century). Around that time half of Ukraine was incorporated into Russia and slowly Russian tsars started to use them as a sort of shock troops.

So, I believe the connection between Russians and cossacks is similar to that between Chinese and their special unit, riders, which, as is discussed in another thread, originated from Turkish and Mongol mercenaries. Don't get me wrong - I like Kossacks as Russian special unit, just that they were really ethnically and culturally distinctive from Russians from Moscow.

jsw363 · September 4, 2001, 10:00

I liked the picture of Lincoln as a Renaissance prince. (Well not really, but it was amusing)

The traded resources being unavailable for use makes sense since you shouldn't be able to use a resource which you are trading away. I wonder how many resources it will take to create a unit. I wonder if it's how fast you "mine" or exploit the resource. I don't imagine that you'll have to have one resource for each unit, because that would involve too many resources. It might also be that you are able to access one of the specified resource from the source each turn.

The German Leader COULD be Bismark, but I think that we have to withhold judgement, as that could be pretty much ANY German leader.

I like the fact that the Russian unique unit is the cossack. It fits in much better with their golden age being under the empire rather than under the Soviets. Any definitive word on what role the Cossacks actually had?

LaRusso · September 4, 2001, 10:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Martinus

Actually it is not true. Kossacks formed their own community (for the greater part of their history within the Eastern most territory of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Ethnically they were Ukrainian and originated at the time when Duchy of Moscow already started. So they have as much ethnical connection with Russians as, say, Polish or Lithuanians.

They were used a lot by the Polish monarchs and often revolted (famous Chmielnicki revolt in the middle of 17th century). Around that time half of Ukraine was incorporated into Russia and slowly Russian tsars started to use them as a sort of shock troops.

So, I believe the connection between Russians and cossacks is similar to that between Chinese and their special unit, riders, which, as is discussed in another thread, originated from Turkish and Mongol mercenaries. Don't get me wrong - I like Kossacks as Russian special unit, just that they were really ethnically and culturally distinctive from Russians from Moscow.

hm, well you gotta put things into prospective. poland lithuania was rather big. lots of cossacks lived around don, down to kuban', both deep in russian territory. as i said, they are inbetweeners, but certainly so involved in the expansion of the russian empire that they can get a place as special unit. another candidate would be t-34. mig idea was not really good.....

arkammler · September 4, 2001, 11:44

monkspider, tell us more. Does it have all of the UU in the article.

redfox74 · September 4, 2001, 12:37

Ukraine (alternative historic name: Small Russia), Russia (Great Russia) and White Russia (Belarus) are three sister nations. Their first state was a common one: The Kievan Rus.

There are many cultural similarities between these people. Therefore they are unified in Civ series as "Russians". Kiev and Minsk are "Russian" cities, why can't the cossack be the Russian UU?

Cossacks weren't only Ukrainians. Cossacks were a mix of free people who lived on and beyond the Russian frontier. There were a lot of fugitive Russian peasants (former serfs) between them.

Besides the Ukrainian cossacks there were cossacks on the southern and eastern frontier of Russia: Caucasus, Ural, Siberia, Far East. They weren't Ukrainians.

lockstep · September 4, 2001, 17:19

Quote:

Originally posted by jsw363
The German Leader COULD be Bismark, but I think that we have to withhold judgement, as that could be pretty much ANY German leader.

I don´t have access to a scanner, but I´m glancing at a picture of Otto von Bismarck in the 'Times Illustrated History of The World' right now. Firaxis´leader resembles Bismarck pretty much, to say the least.

RedWhiteArcher · September 4, 2001, 18:23

Cossacs where a war time recruits. I think a better candidate would be the Gussars or the T-34.

ixnay · September 4, 2001, 18:55

So what regular unit do you think the cossack will replace?

Skanky Burns · September 4, 2001, 19:06

While giving the Russians T-34's would be appropriate, you then wouldnt be able to have a Panzer as the Germans UU. And what else could you give the Germans??

Daoloth · September 4, 2001, 20:05

From some quick research I've concluded that the German leader is Chancellor Otto von Bismarck (d. 1890), for whome the Nazi battleship was named after. My second guess was the Kaiser Wilhelm 2nd, but the Kaiser's mustache was pointed upwards, and he lacked the same facial features. Anyway, the Chancellor's mustache curled down like the Civ dude looks. On top of that, Bismarck unified Germany and made it a European superpower all in one generation.
Civfanatics had listed Frederick the Great as the German leader...so I wonder who else they got inaccurate? Do we even know for sure the German UU is the Panzer?