Differances between CTP 1 and 2?

Curley123 · September 13, 2001, 12:08

Can anyone tell me (or point me at a thread) that explains the differances between CTP 1 and 2 please?

Cuirass · September 13, 2001, 20:00

You don't have CTP2 do you. Try going to http://apolyton.net/ctp2/screenshots/
and just search around a little. U might want to try Activision.com but I don't think they have much else other than story stuff.

Pedrunn · September 13, 2001, 23:53

CTP2 has:
-better graphics
-different units, wonders, improvements and advances
-a new economic system that i persoanlly think better since it is more vital to the civ expansion
-a system of Armies wich you can control stacks much easier than ctp1
-all tiles in the city radius are worked opposed to ctp1 that each pop had a worker to work a single tile. But the city radius becomes bigger as the city grow.
- the bad part is that they drop the Space Layer since according to than was too buggy and unbalanced the game.
- More options of diplomacy.
- Multiplayer is different but i do not know how (i do not play MP)

At all is basicly this.

But the best part is
-The mods adds much more fun than ctp1 mods. Adding a whole lot of new concepts and fixing the bugs.

The modders added the concepts
-Natural Disasters
-Elite Units - Special/cultural units a civ can randomly get and be
the only one to build it (Something like Civ3 Unique Units but random)
-Wonder Units - Leaders that increase the status of a whole army under its leadership to veteran (you get after buiding a wonder)
- and much more

First, if you buy CTP2 Do never play it without mods.
We currently have four mods here

Apolyton - A total Bug fixing. Play this one if you dont want a whole buch of new things

Cradle- New tile improvments, new advances, new city improvements, new units, new wonders, Wonder units, new city graphics, new govs, Natural Disasters and a lot more all focused mainly in the ancient and medieval age. The most agressive AI anyway.

MM2- (The oldest) adding new units, new advances, new city improvements, new city graphics, new ages, new wonders, Elite Units, new govs but focused in all ages

Absolute State (The newest and my work) - new units, new city improvements, new advances, new govs, new wonders, new city graphics, new ages, Natural Disasters, Elite Units, Wonder Units. And focused in all ages. It has just been complete so it does not have a thread yet (will be created this weekend).

Curley123 · September 19, 2001, 21:44

THanks for all teh info. I went out and bought a copy.

First impression. Too many different tabs! Very confusing but I guess I will get used to it.

I don't understand about the workers. You don't place workers on tiles to work them? No wonder I could not get that screen to come up. I had a city exhaust it's food supply and I could not see how your could add a tile improvements and move someone onto it.
So you add a tile improvement and it does exactly what now?

Can cities expand to encompass more space than in CTP1? I don't see their boundries.

Is it worth using the Mayor function? That sure would save me a lot of time. On the city that was starving I turned it on and selected Growth. A bunch of tile improvements started showing up so I guess it was working.

Lol, I feel liks such a n00b.

hexagonian · September 20, 2001, 07:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
First impression. Too many different tabs! Very confusing but I guess I will get used to it.

I actually prefer CTP1 over CTP2, because the major decisions regarding purchasing could be done on a tab without blocking the map, you have message buttons on the left of the screen as opposed to being buried in a tab, and you are warned when a riot is about to occur. It's a preference issue, but as you play, you get used to it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
I don't understand about the workers. You don't place workers on tiles to work them? No wonder I could not get that screen to come up. I had a city exhaust it's food supply and I could not see how your could add a tile improvements and move someone onto it. So you add a tile improvement and it does exactly what now?

Another thing to adjust to... It does streamline the process, I'll say that much, so if you are an extreme micromanager, this could reduce one aspect of the game for you.

The setup works like this - in a very basic way. The computer will total up all the food/commerce/production in the ring around a city, including the additions of tile improvements - the city will then get a percentage of that total based on how many workers there are. You should fill up the inner ring of tiles with improvements before going to the outer rings. And you will have acccess to specialists, though as in any civ-game, this will reduce your capabilities elsewhere.

I do miss the worker system, but it is not a backbreaker issue for me. Personally, its nice to see it done in a different way too. I cannot fault Activision for deviating from the civ1-2 way of doing things either on many of the issues that players hold dear (like PW vs engineers/stacked vs single unit combat/caravans), because if I wanted to play civ2 I would play that instead. In fact, as you get to the mid-late game, the way CTP1-2 is set up helps take the tedium out of managing a large number of cities/armies/tile improvements/trade situations.

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
Can cities expand to encompass more space than in CTP1? I don't see their boundries.

Make sure you have the option turned on.

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
Is it worth using the Mayor function? That sure would save me a lot of time. On the city that was starving I turned it on and selected Growth. A bunch of tile improvements started showing up so I guess it was working.

Never used them...

I would strongly urge that you have the most current patch 1.11 available here at Apolyton, and that you use one of the fan-created Mods that are also available, as they do fix the game, especially regarding AI issues.

faded glory · September 20, 2001, 09:56

CTP2 is a joke. You shouldnt have wasted your money

\\

Quote:

better graphics

I will dispute that. The new units are stupid. To think there is no legion and there is a unit called a 'muketter: Infantryman' is absurd.\\

Quote:

- More options of diplomacy, new Mplayer.

1)Mplayer is broke. It does not work. Try playing 60 or so turns. Resyncs will kill the game everytime.

2)Diplomacy sucks. The AI DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO USE THE NEW DIPLOMACY. Try this proposal. Exchange maps for 200 gold. It will be rejected! Then counter proposal! 200 gold and a exchange of maps! ACCEPTED! What a friggin joke this game is

.

another issue- Loads of Bugs. Loads of em....Mods help. But not fully.

Curley123 · September 20, 2001, 11:13

I am not enjoying version 2 very much at all.

The interface is just too clunky. Seperate tabs for everything.
Very counter-intuative.

It's hard to tell when it's time to end your turn.

Game play is VERY slow. CTP 1 was much faster.

I do not like at all that I have no ability to place my workers.

When I want to use PW the total points I currently have are not displayed in the screen that I use to place the improvements. Lame I say, lame.

I just don't feel I am in control. Information is hidden across several tab screens and to keep up on that information you have to look at them all each turn.

From what I have seen of the AI it is a joke. Units that should be Stealth are chased all over the screen and killed as soon as they stop.

I wish I could send this back. No wonder places like EB world don't carry it. They would have a high percentage of returns.

faded glory · September 20, 2001, 18:19

Told you it was a freeken joke

Its a waste of time and money

Return the game, and send a nasty letter to Activision

Pedrunn · September 21, 2001, 09:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
Game play is VERY slow. CTP 1 was much faster.

Go to the option screen, press Gaphics and Increase the units speed. This will make the AI turns go faster.

Quote:

I do not like at all that I have no ability to place my workers.

At first that really annoyed me too but after get used to it i thought it was for the best. You do not direct your attention too much to micromanagement anymore.

Quote:

When I want to use PW the total points I currently have are not displayed in the screen that I use to place the improvements. Lame I say, lame.

The Total number of PW are in the top right coner of the main screen. It is visible when any screen is open.

Quote:

From what I have seen of the AI it is a joke. Units that should be Stealth are chased all over the screen and killed as soon as they stop.

Dot not play CTP2 unmodded!!!!!
Get a mod as fast as you can. The modders already made a lot of improvments in the AI.
Get the apolyton Pack to have this issue fixed without changing the game.

Immortal Wombat · September 22, 2001, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
It's hard to tell when it's time to end your turn.

Use the 'o' key.

The game is not very good really, but it might be worth sticking with if you an find a way to make it fun.

Curley123 · September 22, 2001, 23:28

Where can I get a mod?

>>The game is not very good really, but it might be worth sticking with if you an find a way to make it fun.

Grrr, I play these games to have fun. I don't want to have to work at looking for a reason to like the game.

Oh well, October the Dark Age of Camelot is coming out and Civ3 on the 16th.
Between those two I don't think I will have time to force myself to play, trying in a desperate attempt to find some element of gameplay that is enjoyable.

Did anyone actually playtest this thing? I see a big list of people that got credit in the manual but damm...

Immortal Wombat · September 23, 2001, 03:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
Where can I get a mod?

Well, there is...

MedMod2 - Widely heralded as the saviour of CtP2. It failed, but did introduce loads of new concepts, improved the AI a little, enhanced the tech tree, added units, like MedMod for CtP really...
Get it here
Cradle of Civilization - Mod for the ancient age primarily. Probably has the best AI in terms of aggression and decision making. Added units, new concepts, see the readme thread, and get it here.
Apolyton Pack - combination of the above two's data files. The basic game is the same, but the bugs are fixed, the AI improved etc.
Absolute State - New mod, combination of the above two. Includes the best features of them all I think, but no playtesting has been done yet...

Quote:

The game is not very good really, but it might be worth sticking with if you an find a way to make it fun.

Grrr, I play these games to have fun. I don't want to have to work at looking for a reason to like the game.

Yeah, it depends... I have never played a game through from beginning to end, but I find modding incredibly fun, now I have learned the SLIC code. I think the strategy level of CtP2 is quite low, but if you have a go at MP (when its not broken) it might be better. You could also try starting a succession game with a friend, or here, to get some human input.

Quote:

Did anyone actually playtest this thing? I see a big list of people that got credit in the manual but damm...

Yeah, it was playtested, but Activision wanted it released for Christmas, so the things the playtesters mentioned did not have time to be fixed, corrected, added, or changed.

Curley123 · September 25, 2001, 21:46

I have been a civ type gamer forever. I really really enjoy these games. However...

I don't like Civ II. I have started quite a few games and just can't force myself to finish even one.
THe interface and game play is absollutly horrid. I like some of the ideas but OMG, they in no way make up for all the things that I do NOT like.

I have looked on the Activision site and they do not seem to have a feedback area. Imagine that.

Anyone got a e-mail address for them?
Yeah, I know it won't do any good but it will make me feel better about wasting money on this product.

player1 · September 26, 2001, 00:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Curley123
Can anyone tell me (or point me at a thread) that explains the differances between CTP 1 and 2 please?

-CTP2 has more features
-CTP2 is fun MODING
but:
1) CTP2 is less finished (than CTP1)
2) CTP2 is poorly balanced
3) CTP2 has bad AI
4) CTP2 has no Hotseat of PBEM
5) CTP2 Multiplayer is unstable
6) CTP2 has worse interface than CTP1

Still, you can fix 1), 2), 3) by mods