Most Crucial Decision You Make In A Civ Game ?

A lot of posts on initial city placement, first choice for tech advance, and others.

I submit for your consideration, that the most critical decision each player makes in a game, is the direction of their initial move.

No matter if the move is with initial settler, second settler in Deity, first move through military, whatever.

The degree of importance is magnified in 1x.

If you move in wrong direction, towards a desert or something, and could have gone another direction of equal distance to a river, at best you've lost a few hundred years in travel time.

Do you agree, or do I miss something? (highly likely)

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

[Blaupanzer]

Starting decisions are greatly magnified by the resource competition at deity level. However, the most crucial decision seems to me to be the strategic, how one intends to win. Choices are conquer and AC. If this decision has already been made when a player starts, then all adaptations are relatively simple, to get back on the desired path. When the player is trying to keep both options open, then several decisions (which tech to research, which Wonder to build, how to deal with other civs) can end up having been crucial. Many players (myself included) don't always know how critical a given decision will be, but are cognizant that certain decisions lead one way or the other. Again, once a strategy is chosen, subsequent decisions are much easier.

[Ming]

Yes... there are a lot of different decisions we make that can effect the game... blah... blah... blah...

But, I have to agree with you on this one. I look for any clues I can before making that first move. map coordinates, terrain features, any specials or huts in view. I really hate it when the perfect city site is just to your left out of view, and you don't figure that out for many years because you moved right. There are a lot of little clues, but they aren't perfect, and it does come down to luck

[Waaaaaayne]

I always find that looking back the most important discition was one that seemed trivial at the time, do I move the unit or fortify? do i buy that rifelman or let it build normally? Can I really afford to buy that wonder or should I let the computer get it? At the time you just don't realise how important it's going to be.

[Smash]

Although the decision is often made for me,probably that first non-monarchy pre-req is most important.It can have a big effect on how the future unfolds.

I see it about like Ming does.

If sitting in the middle of plains or grassland, nothing else visible, it comes down to pure luck.

I've cussed many a time over this.
Almost to the point that some omnipotent being is turning the map, dependant on where I do in fact move.


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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited April 30, 2001).]

[solo]

The most crucial decision is whether to junk a game and start another, primarily because the game takes so long to play. So much depends on your starting location, the map in general, and where you explore first, etc. that it makes sense to start a number of new games on fresh maps, and only continue the one most suitable to your purposes, whatever they may be.

In comparison games, where this option does not exist, the most crucial early decisions, in my opinion, are which techs to research next.

So to you it's choosing your first advance ?
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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited May 01, 2001).]

[solo]

Yes, SlowwHand, and every advance afterwards. Nothing slows me down more than not having the knowledge to do something that seems vital at the moment. Making mistakes in other things are more easily overcome, except perhaps the little oversights such as leaving your capital unguarded and watching barbarians walk right in.

[drake]

I think your first city location is important if you're playing a short term duel type game, otherwise not so much. A civ can get off to a very slow start and still be very sucessful........it's called adaption

Most important first moves? Getting out, opening the map and grabbing huts.
[This message has been edited by drake (edited May 01, 2001).]

Ok. So there's a first advance and first city placement theory.
I only asked about "First Crucial Decision".

<"ask 'em what time it is, they tell me how to make a watch",
grumbles SlowwHand as he shuffles off>

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

[geofelt]

When you first meet a belligerent ai opponent, and it demands 100 gold for peace, do you give it? I don't like it, but I do. If there are no huts in sight, I try to start exploring towards the center of the world. What to research next? My rule of thumb is to consider a tech that lets you build a wonder.

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by geofelt on 05-01-2001 08:20 PM When you first meet a belligerent ai opponent, and it demands 100 gold for peace, do you give it? I don't like it, but I do. If there are no huts in sight, I try to start exploring towards the center of the world. What to research next? My rule of thumb is to consider a tech that lets you build a wonder.

So many questions...
I don't give them the money
Yes, start exploring to the largest available area if no other thing makes you go else where
I'll research the direct path to monarchy...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand on 05-01-2001 02:33 PM Ok. So there's a first advance and first city placement theory. I only asked about "First Crucial Decision".

I think the key word here should be "decision" rather than "crucial." Decision implies to me that you're weighing different reasonable options and choosing among them. At this point, my early tech path is so fixed that I don't consider "first tech" a decision anymore; crucial, yes, but not a decision. Likewise, the direction in which you first move is also generally not a decision; it's either obvious (mountains to the east, grassland to the west...hmm, what shall I do?) or it's a crapshoot.

For me, at deity, the first crucial decision is whether to put down a city immediately or use my settlers to explore a little first. Valid arguments can be made either way, and the appropriate answer is different in different games (sometimes I find great city sites and many huts; sometimes I just get way behind in techs and lose wonders). Below deity, I think the first crucial decision I make is whether to go to war early on, either because I'm hemmed in by a neighboring civ or because some uppity civ has demanded tribute from me.

One other special case: sometimes I'll start a non-OCC game and find I have a choice: I can found a land-locked capital on a 4-special site, or I can move over one square and get only two specials but also have access to the sea. That one keeps me hemming and hawing alot.

Just my 2 cents (or, given where I'm living, just my 24,000 lira )


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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

Or your grandfather clock.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

[Blaupanzer]

I'm going to guess from the tone of the above, that the MP folks regard these early decisions as so crucial because humans will give you no chance to recover from a simple trick of fate. In SP, I honestly believe these first decisions are not as critical. However, in keeping with Slowhand's revision to "first crucial decision," I think exploration direction is very important. But for me, deciding which units will do that search is also critical. Do I use my second settler, my first warrior, my second? Do I send my first explorer more or less in a circle until a two-move explorer (horse or diplo usually) is available? Generally, I use my first warrior and try to identify the hut pattern. If he finds barbs, he dies. If not, I'll know where to send my diplo/horse when I build him.

[Dis]

when to go from demo to fundy. my style (which sucks for diety unfortunately- I'll have to change it one of these days) is to get a large or medium lead in tech. and convert to fundy around mobile warfare to annhilate every ai city save one. But on emporer or diety I can't wait too long because the ai expands like crazy and conquer each other. Intelligence is imperitive, and I can't let them build up too much. So sometimes I'll go fundy around cavalry.

but I have to agree with the first move. It is crucial. I would like to run a test and save the game on turn 1. and use a few different city sites for my nation. and try to research roughly the same path as before and see what the differences is. because sometimes I choose mediocre sites for my first city because I don't want to waste time looking. I only move away if the terrain is bad (too much desert, glacier, mountains, swamp, jungle, or tundra)
[This message has been edited by Dissident (edited May 04, 2001).]

Yes, I guess I need to specify, multiplayer.
I see people saying they don't play MP, and I'm thinking "WTF?".
Evidently I need to put any all posts in multiplayer, strategy or not.

And now I have the answer. Time.
Okey-dokey.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited May 04, 2001).]

[rah]

Yes, you should have specified. In SP, nothing is really critical, because you have plenty of time to recover from stupidity. (short of leaving your capital undefended and letting the barbs take it)

RAH

[EdwardTKing]

The hardest decision I have is when I discover I am on an island; typically with two or three neighbouring islands. Where do I send my trireme and horseman. One island has fertile rivers, another is very hutty; another has a hostile human or AI; but I do not know which!

[War4ever]

most crucial thing in a game is too make your opponent believe your doing one thing when you off doing another


[This message has been edited by War4ever (edited May 07, 2001).]

[Blaupanzer]

"Very hutty," is a delightful turn of phrase.

[Dis]

hey I'm still waiting for my multiplayer 'patch'

all games should have multiplayer included. yeah I know it is 5 years old (or is it 7?). but I still shouldn't have to pay for multiplayer. when I can get multiplayer gold for free I will get it .

yes there are quite a few people that play single player yet still post here btw. I don't want to pay money just to get my ass kicked all the time . You people are too good for me. I need to find more average players.

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by War4ever on 05-07-2001 06:35 PM most crucial thing in a game is too make your opponent believe your doing one thing when you off doing another [This message has been edited by War4ever (edited May 07, 2001).]

Gee War... your post on this subject was a lot longer the last time I saw it... Afraid you were giving away state secrets

[War4ever]

nah the group i play with is full of drunks , potheads, those whom fall asleap while playing, clumsy oafs, whiners, complainers, boasters, and rule makers

No secrets here

[rah]

Gee, I don't know whether to feel insulted or complimented.

Rich
Still trying to figure out which catagories I fall into.