killed by a barb king

lord of the mark · May 8, 2001, 19:46

I sent a warrior to kill a barb king on a mountain (2 road moves first, so the warrior attacked with one third strengh)- and the warrior died!!

I didnt think a barb king could do that. So they do have some defense

Wouldnt have mattered, but this was my first OCC game and it really screwed it up.

LOTM

Ming · May 8, 2001, 20:06

Yeah... I've seen the same thing happen to me. Kind of pisses you off, doesn't it

War4ever · May 8, 2001, 20:55

even with all you MP points a warrior can lose to a bking on a mountain.....

oh well i get my fare share anyways

Marquis de Sodaq · May 8, 2001, 22:57

What I discovered while researching my extensive Combat thread is that zero defense units can win, usually when attacked by a wimp unit that is either wounded or has moved. These units have no defense, but they do have hit points and firepower. A battle is resolved by a series of random numbers from 0 to the attack or defense strength. Whichever unit has a higher value wins, ties to the defender. If your warrior "rolls" a zero, the barbarian king ties him and wins. With an attack strength of only 1/3, you can expect the warrior to lose about a third of the time. Bad luck on a few "rolls," and your warrior is dead.

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

Solver · May 13, 2001, 09:03

Another weakness of Civ 2 battle system. Seriously, this ain't good. But, each unit has some defense, and attacking with non-full strange will always cause problems to you.

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Solver the "Running Beer" - http://www.aok.20m.com

Juggler · May 13, 2001, 11:04

Yeah, I know what you mean.
The same thing pisses me off too but you get used to it not to mention Civ1 and its battle sistem (I once attacked a diplomat with a battleship and guess what happened...).

Ecthy · May 13, 2001, 11:31

yeah, once I lost an elephant which had about 1/10 HP by attacking a barb king... what a mess!

Juggler · May 13, 2001, 13:41

So in the real world that would mean that one man would kill 1/10 of the whole army of elephants. Was he Hercules or something?

May 13, 2001, 16:09

no.... he was David against Goliath

Theben · May 15, 2001, 03:19

Actually I think that you encountered a random event where the barb king was assigned a .1 defense rating. Check your SMAC games, sometimes a DEF 0 unit has a defense of .1 & I believe this was carried over from civ2 (and civ1). On a mountain it would have a defense of .3, and your attack was about .33...almost even odds of victory.

Blaupanzer · May 15, 2001, 15:14

Have not heard Theban's theory before. Has anyone tested? Note that none of the units in the game is a single individual. The diplo and king, caravan and settler units represent very small and small numbers relative to military units, but not a single individual. A "king," or mercenary commander, needed several messengers to convey orders over space prior to the radio and normally had drummers and/or trumpeters with him for the same reason. Can 10 or so individuals stand off 100 warriors? Not usually, but not impossible. I just wonder how much damage an ostensibly "0" unit does when he gets a hit, due to the rules about a tie from above.
[This message has been edited by Blaupanzer (edited May 15, 2001).]

Edward · May 16, 2001, 14:22

quote:

Originally posted by Blaupanzer on 05-15-2001 03:14 PM
I just wonder how much damage an ostensibly "0" unit does when he gets a hit, due to the rules about a tie from above.
[This message has been edited by Blaupanzer (edited May 15, 2001).]

From looking at some charts, it seems that all units - even those with 0 def - have 1 firepower.

I always envisioned diplomats, explorers, and spies as individuals. If a game turn is a year or more that gives the barbarian king plenty of time to try out all sorts of Wile E. Coyote strategies on that elephant army - rolling boulders from a hill top, mice at their feet, sneaking in at night and poisoning their water, ACME elephant traps...

I'm personally surprized at how much damage settlers can take! (probably their 2 hitpoints at work.) They shouldn't defend better than a warrior unit. And engineers with their titanium clipboards can suck up a lot of damage from ancient troops ('though I guess bulldozers would be pretty formidable).

Scouse Gits · May 17, 2001, 09:27

For the definitive combat stats see here, but for simplicity it is reasonable to work on the basis of a '0' defence unit actually defending at one eighth ...

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library has been built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

EdwardTKing · May 17, 2001, 16:35

I dissent. IMHO if there is a flaw; it is NOT that the Barbarian King survives occasionally; but that the Barbarian King survives so rarely.

Why oh why do people expect a guarranted victory? That is no fun at all!

Mixam · May 21, 2001, 05:53

I don't complain when a warrior loses to a diplo. Cause I figure it is like risk you roll the dice and the tie goes to the defender. Only difference is that in civ the dice don't have the same number of sides.

On the other hand when a battlecruiser looses to a warrior you can hear me screaming for blocks. I remember a string on that and the reply was musta been one helluv a shot.

rah · May 21, 2001, 08:25

My favorite is when you have a settler and a warrior stacked. A unit comes up and attacks, and the computer selects the settler to defend the stack. The warrior must feel like a real wimp at that point.

RAH

Marquis de Sodaq · May 21, 2001, 09:30

quote:

Originally posted by rah on 05-21-2001 08:25 AM
My favorite is when you have a settler and a warrior stacked. A unit comes up and attacks, and the computer selects the settler to defend the stack. The warrior must feel like a real wimp at that point.

RAH

Thereafter you'll have to research "psychology" and build a Psychiatric Outreach city improvement to boost his self esteem...