America isn't old enough to be in Civ3 - Page 13

Ted Striker · December 2, 2001, 10:47

About 2 or 3 weeks.

Now you guys are making stuff up out of thin air.

Oligarf · December 2, 2001, 15:17

I have not said that America has no culture. It is a brilliant mix of many cultures, European, Asian, African, and so on. But it is definitely not a distinctive culture, it has a lot of other cultures, some evolved, but not distinctively American.

And now you have your 'culture'-subject back Teddy.

Ted Striker · December 3, 2001, 04:08

You guys obviously haven't sampled enough American culture enough to know there are many many disctinctive things here that are truly "American."

You could also say that ANY culture is truly a mix of others.

Even the Italians have Chinese influence in their eating, Greek influence in their art, sports, and government, etc.

And AGAIN, the post I was REFERRING TO was Roadkills.

DUHHHHH!!!!

Dauphin · December 3, 2001, 09:22

Quote:

Even the Italians have Chinese influence in their eating, Greek influence in their art, sports, and government, etc

So? Italians aren't in the game either.

knott · December 3, 2001, 17:09

In Sweden we thought it was a huge threat to the democracy when under 80 % voted in an election, in USA mostly under 50 % vote and they only care about how the president look. It is not much of a democracy when not even a majority vote

. BTW a Costarican has an expected longer life than a black american

.

Fresno · December 5, 2001, 06:35

Democracy, culture and foreign policy of the USA may be criticized, but the real reason it shouldn't be in is that they are just a former colony, and therefore they are nothing but part of the civilizations Americans descent from.

I understand Americans won't buy Civ when they aren't in the game. Therefore, I suggest we include them as Barbarians.

Fresno · December 5, 2001, 06:49

This is what I had in mind:
The leader of the Barbarian Americans has sent us a message: "We shall mercilessly sack the city of Kabul unless you pay us 562 gold at once!"

Dauphin · December 5, 2001, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Fresno
This is what I had in mind:
The leader of the Barbarian Americans has sent us a message: "We shall mercilessly sack the city of Kabul unless you pay us 562 gold at once!"

When you capture the barbarian leader you would offer up (in this instance) Bush for ransom. The response should be "Nah, you can keep him".

Fresno · December 5, 2001, 17:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Crunch
When you capture the barbarian leader you would offer up (in this instance) Bush for ransom. The response should be "Nah, you can keep him".

Vandle_Savage · December 16, 2001, 08:11

Well....I've just wasted 2 hours of my life reading this thread. Some truly thought provoking material in here. There is also mass amounts of utter bullshit here.

I don't really care if the U.S. is in the game or not. If it wasn't I'd just add the damn thing. But 2 things have really irked me from reading all this.

1) All the non U.S. people bashing my home.

2) All the U.S. Super Patriots making ME look like a moron.

And on WWII: I personally believe WWII was won because of The British people. Without their dogged determination to stand up to Nazi Germany reagrdless of cost the World would be a very different place. Practically by themselves they held off The Reich until the rest of the Allies gave them any assistance.

Ted Striker · December 16, 2001, 16:36

Quote:

Some truly thought provoking material in here.

I hear ya bra.

Britney sure is a darling, isn't she?

USA!

DaShi · December 17, 2001, 06:29

I agree that the US should be left out of CivIII. At least during the early periods. However, it should show up by the Industrial Era and then whoop everyone's ass in less than 200 years. :P

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Fresno · December 17, 2001, 11:41

If they would turn up in the Industrial Era, it would be fine with me. I suggested earlier that it should be

Quote:

possible for available civs to establish colonies, which can later fight for independence, just like in Europa Universalis. In this way you could include the USA, Mexico and others, without having the problem of Americans discovering The Wheel and establishing Washington in 4000 BC.

.

I'm glad people agree with that now.

Also thanks for bringing this thread up again.

Evil Robot · December 18, 2001, 21:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Fresno
Democracy, culture and foreign policy of the USA may be criticized, but the real reason it shouldn't be in is that they are just a former colony, and therefore they are nothing but part of the civilizations Americans descent from.

I understand Americans won't buy Civ when they aren't in the game. Therefore, I suggest we include them as Barbarians.

Just like England was a colony of the continent, a very long time ago...like China was a colony of the Middle East, a very long time ago...

Your argument doesn't hold water.

Evil Robot · December 18, 2001, 21:08

Quote:

Originally posted by knott
In Sweden we thought it was a huge threat to the democracy when under 80 % voted in an election, in USA mostly under 50 % vote and they only care about how the president look. It is not much of a democracy when not even a majority vote

.

I AM A STUPID AMERICAN. I ONLY VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF HIS LOOKS! OMG THAT GEORGE BUSH IS SUCH A HOTTIE!!!!

(/sarcasm)

Please visit the real world sometime. It's a nice place to be.

Fresno · December 23, 2001, 17:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Robot

I AM A STUPID AMERICAN. I ONLY VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF HIS LOOKS! OMG THAT GEORGE BUSH IS SUCH A HOTTIE!!!!

(/sarcasm)

Please visit the real world sometime. It's a nice place to be.

Bush was said to be more charismatic as Gore. I (and most other Dutch) didn't like him. In the Netherlands there was a poll during the American elections. I believe 75% of the Dutch said they would vote Gore.

knott · December 24, 2001, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Robot

I AM A STUPID AMERICAN. I ONLY VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE OF HIS LOOKS! OMG THAT GEORGE BUSH IS SUCH A HOTTIE!!!!

(/sarcasm)

Please visit the real world sometime. It's a nice place to be.

Ohh i forget, you dont even need a majority win.

Oligarf · December 25, 2001, 18:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Robot

Just like England was a colony of the continent, a very long time ago...like China was a colony of the Middle East, a very long time ago...

Your argument doesn't hold water.

But America not a long time ago, and a way other way of colony as the others you mention.

Your argument is even less then air.

oriel94 · December 26, 2001, 02:29

Wow, this thread has been running forever. And guess what? The same old arguments and points are repeated, on both sides, ad infinitum. I was participating actively in this thread a few weeks ago, and I looked in today to find the whole thing stuck pretty much where it was back then.

Maybe we should just assign the various arguments and points numbers (for pro-America) and letters (for anti-America).

So, I could say "I think America is a Civ because #5". Someone could then reply "Oh yeah, well I think it isn't because #D". The moderator need only keep a table of numbers and letters for everyone to refer to.

Anyway, I think America is (the most important) part of a world-wide english speaking civ (UK, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ), which I call the 'Anglosphere'. So I guess it's part-number and part-letter.

From now on I'll just type in "oh yeah, well E8 to you!".

Evil Robot · December 27, 2001, 02:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Oligarf

But America not a long time ago, and a way other way of colony as the others you mention.

Your argument is even less then air.

So? A 'blend' of something is original, is it not? The mix of various continental races onto England has produced something original; so why not America? It's not 'old' enough? Where's this nice universe where you can't be 'old' enough to be original until you have reached some arbitrary age?

Fresno · January 4, 2002, 17:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Robot
So? A 'blend' of something is original, is it not? The mix of various continental races onto England has produced something original; so why not America? It's not 'old' enough? Where's this nice universe where you can't be 'old' enough to be original until you have reached some arbitrary age?

The English became one people after a long evolution. During this process the developed their own culture.

I won't deny the USA is developing its own culture, but they are not very far yet, because they aren't old enough.

Evil Robot · January 4, 2002, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Fresno

The English became one people after a long evolution. During this process the developed their own culture.

I won't deny the USA is developing its own culture, but they are not very far yet, because they aren't old enough.

What is your definition of culture? I can't really respond to this comment without knowing it.

Oligarf · January 5, 2002, 07:36

I think we have had an enormous amount of arguments, from both sides. I conclude that every single argument against having the Americans in 4000 BC is not really hard to deny, but I think that the total of arguments is the reason that the shouldn't.

And the last point, America is in my opinion not that much distinct from a common western culture. In that sense, Germany shouldn't be because of recent history, but because of history far back, a time when no one knew that the earth was round, that there could be something like America. And the people that lived in America, didn't feel Americans.

Fresno · January 5, 2002, 08:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Evil Robot
What is your definition of culture? I can't really respond to this comment without knowing it.

I'll respond using you own example - the English.

The English were originally a blend of Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, Viking and Norman peoples. During hundreds of years, they developed their own common identity. This identity consists of several unique features, like their own language, their own political system, their own religion and their typically bad kitchen.

Now the Americans. They absolutely have some unique features as well - but nothing so far-reaching as their own language or religion. So they are a nation, not a civilization.

However, I admit the Americans have their own bad kitchen...
Give them a whole continent and 500 years to make the best of it - and what do they come up with? A hamburger!

Fresno · January 5, 2002, 10:55

Hey, at last I'm a Warlord! Now another 200 posts to reach the next level...

Admiral Stukov · January 5, 2002, 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Rosacrux
Teddyboy you are a perfect example of why I really wish Einstein would join USSR instead of USA after he left Deutschland. Think about it. WW2 goes on as usual but instead of USA, the commies get the bomb... and blow the **** out of good-ole USA after they finish with taking over Europe...

...Kaboom... no Teddyboy born

Rosacrux, you are a perfect example of why I wish you would come over to the United States... because its obvious you smoke so much crack that with you here, the Cartels would not EVER be able to keep up with the demand and BOOM, no more cocaine problems.

Now, seriously, some of the things on this board just sicken me. Whether it be the American Super Patriots which probably provoked people in the first place, or the European Super Hypocrites which have ultimately provoked me (example: the quote above), it has just plain sickened me. Some of you seriously must have no life other than to fight some huge debate of the most abnoxious issue I have ever heard of... "Should America be in Civ 3"?

Well, lets look at the facts. America may not be a thousand years old like other Civilizations, nor was it an ancient superpower. The difference is, America is over 200 years old, and is a modern superpower. If its anything that I have to gripe about Civ 3 is that it needs MORE Civilizations... not less. Where are the Spanish?

What really amuses me is that whenever the word "America" pops up on a forum these days... the Europeans always swarm to bash America like its something cool to do. Some of the American bashing is so ridiculous that it makes me think some of you guys go to Highschools where there is an American kid there beating you up and taking your lunch money or something.

Honestly, some of you really should get lives instead of bashing America on a forum all day.

Fresno · January 5, 2002, 11:18

I'm sorry to say it, but you sound rather frustrated yourself... Maybe you shouldn't visit threads you don't like.

Instead of asking why Europeans criticize America, I would like to ask why some (not all) American nationalists on this thread can't stand criticism. No country is perfect, so why pretend your country is better as others?

jan3 · January 5, 2002, 12:10

Quote:

(I don't think Germany would have declared war on us if we had been trading with them as a neutral party).

well they dident need to declare war they where at war with the states since japan attacked pearl harbor, since germany,italy and japan formed the axis nations so......i dont get your point here.
they where allready at war so why declare it again

Admiral Stukov · January 5, 2002, 12:18

There is a difference between criticism and bashing. Look at the poll? Are you trying to say America is an uncivilized nation? Sure we may have pushed Indians off their land (despite popular belief, we didn't massacre them... European diseases did), but around the same time Britian was busy annihilating the China because China wouldn't buy Opium. Honestly, some of you people should look at your own countries atrocities before you look at Americas. Sure America ain't perfect... but your country sure as hell ain't either.

Dauphin · January 5, 2002, 12:41

Quote:

Now, seriously, some of the things on this board just sicken me. Whether it be the American Super Patriots which probably provoked people in the first place, or the European Super Hypocrites which have ultimately provoked me

Stukov, what worries me most is that you are troubled by the poll and peoples statements. If someone said something nonsensical about another issue would it trouble you also? If I said something ridiculous like "America is too backward to have sent men to the moon" would you feel it necessary to proove me wrong? Is it worth wasting the effort?

RE rhe poll, it is designed to be divisive, howevere there is a reasonable debate to be had here, but do you really believe (for example) Rosacrux wants to see the USA blown up by nukes?

I don't believe he does.

Everyone has opinions, but then everyone has an ****hole too. Just ignore the stupid comments.

For the record, I voted for the second option.