Sea, space, city radius, governments

[Yoleus]

Hi everybody, I usually do not post much and I have been away for a while, so now I ask you all some questions on what you know on the game:
1) what about sea exploitment?
I mean sea resources, sea cities, sea colonies.
Sea cities would be nice, but I do not hope they will be in.
Sea resources: not just fish and whales I hope! I mean, think you are a growing economy and you need oil, you then find it in the sea (I am not English, but that is the idea) and you want to exploit it. Then you might find uranium (yes, underwater), coal, etc.
But then the oil is not on the shoreline, so you would need some "platforms" (sea colonies) to use it...
Can we build sea colonies?
More on the same: can I terraform sea into land? If so, do I get just an island amidst a lot of water or I will be able to plunder all the undewater resources?
2) space: satellites, anyone? Spy, warfare, research...
what do we have?
3) Is the max city radius (for the purpose of working the land, mind you) the same as in civ2?
4) I read fundamentalism is out, so what gov'ts do we have?
Am I correct if I say:
Anarchy
Monarchy
Republic
Communism
Democracy
I really would like to have some more... and have some clues on how they work now.
Thank you for your attention and eventual replies, Firaxis guys are welcome too!

[Yoleus]

+ Despotism...

[Fiil]

You're right about the governments. There are no new ones.

The workable city radius is not fixed anymore, it will increase with the culture of your city though not nearly as fast as the city border line.

We haven't heard much of modern Civ, so I don't know, but I would guess that sea and space improvements are kept to the same level as in civ2 (None).

But who knows? Maybe you will be able to build a spy satellite improvement in your cities to improve your possibilities in the diplomacy menu.

[GodSpawn]

The "platform" sea colony idea is nice. It's certainly what you need in real life - there are a significant number of workers on oil platforms; enough that it would be realistic to represent them by a single Civ3 worker.

I think the max city radius is 6 (at which point you win the game with "cultural victory). So the max playable radius is 5.

[Sandman]

I've been wondering about oil in the sea as well. But I don't think that it will be in, unfortunately. But you never know. New resources can appear randomly over time, so maybe oil will pop up in the sea this way. Although how would you link it to your road network?

City radii are sadly the same, I hoped for something more flexible.

[Faboba]

1) what about sea exploitment?
I mean sea resources, sea cities, sea colonies.
Sea cities would be nice, but I do not hope they will be in.
Sea resources: not just fish and whales I hope! I mean, think you are a growing economy and you need oil, you then find it in the sea (I am not English, but that is the idea) and you want to exploit it. Then you might find uranium (yes, underwater), coal, etc.
But then the oil is not on the shoreline, so you would need some "platforms" (sea colonies) to use it...
Can we build sea colonies?
More on the same: can I terraform sea into land? If so, do I get just an island amidst a lot of water or I will be able to plunder all the undewater resources?

As far as anyone knows sea colonies are out. As someone else said ( and I strenuously agree ) sea colonies go against the idea of civ. From what we've seen Civ 3 will cover the same scope as Civ 2 - none of the quasi-future nonsense of CTP ( which I kind of liked but most of it especially in the original was just bad, bad sci-fi )

2) space: satellites, anyone? Spy, warfare, research...
what do we have?

As with Civ 2 ( and Civ 1? ) the goal ( or one of the ways to win ) is to create a space ship which can travel to another solar system and colonise it. No space colonies or faffing about in space ala CTP however you can bet there will be some kind of satalite themed thing even if it's only a wonder, after all it's based on the modern era.

3) Is the max city radius (for the purpose of working the land, mind you) the same as in civ2?

No. I can't say what it IS but I've seen screen shots with radiuses bigger ( probably just one square. As far as working the land goes to the best of my knowledge you can work any square your city extends to unless there is another city trying to work that square to. In that event the square will be allocated to the civ / city with the greatest cultural influence upon it.

4) I read fundamentalism is out, so what gov'ts do we have?
Am I correct if I say:
Anarchy
Despotism
Monarchy
Republic
Communism
Democracy

Someone else will have to answer this, I've not been keeping track, I'd guess your list is right ( I mean come on Fudementalism was pretty silly ) but they may well have taken a few pages out of CTP's book and but in theocracy and technocracy or the corporate republic ( which were pretty good ideas and without Fudementalism it'll be odd not to have SOME form of government representing a state run by the religious head as throughout history this has been a major theme ) Could have empire as a seperate one........ like I say I don't have a clue.

[Yoleus]

Thanks for the replies.
But if the city radius do expand, why in all the screenshots I have seen so far ALWAYS the cities show the civ2 radius, and the map spacing is more or less the same than in civ2?
This really bugs me. Because if the spacing strategy is the same ( to avoid foreign civs to "patch" your country in early ages) and cities do not "meld", well this feature is almost pointless (except maybe for the seas. Sea colonies could be the best ones by the end of the game )

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Sandman
I've been wondering about oil in the sea as well. But I don't think that it will be in, unfortunately. But you never know. New resources can appear randomly over time, so maybe oil will pop up in the sea this way. Although how would you link it to your road network?

City radii are sadly the same, I hoped for something more flexible.

I read someone fram firaxis saying somewhere that the ways to link trade was with roads, airports or a harbour. It stands to reason if you have oil in your city radius, and a harbour in that city, you can trade it.

For the record oil is MOST DEFINATELY in. Whether sea or desert I'm not sure ( probably both. Sid likes realism 'e does ) but it's required for Stealth bombers and helicopters ( confirmed. ) Probably for everything that needs fuel so there's gonna need to be a lot of it. You'll probably see it when your civ develops oil refining ( if that is a tech )

[Jason Beaudoin]

I asked the same question about city sizes because I found it odd that they would allow a city size up to 6 radius... but that's not actually the case.

A city size is the same as in CIV II. The difference is the "influence" your civ has on the surrounding area. Although your "influence" may extend past a 2 square radius, your city radius does not get bigger. This means that your citizens in the city can work on land 2 squares from the city centre, but no further.

However, if your city's influence become great and it moves 3 or more squares from the city centre, any resources that are included in that new radius will be available to that city.

See The CIV III Mini Tutorial

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Yoleus
Thanks for the replies.
But if the city radius do expand, why in all the screenshots I have seen so far ALWAYS the cities show the civ2 radius, and the map spacing is more or less the same than in civ2?
This really bugs me. Because if the spacing strategy is the same ( to avoid foreign civs to "patch" your country in early ages) and cities do not "meld", well this feature is almost pointless (except maybe for the seas. Sea colonies could be the best ones by the end of the game )

Except there are no sea colonies........ ( as far as anyone knows )

[Yoleus]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
A city size is the same as in CIV II
[...]
However, if your city's influence become great and it moves 3 or more squares from the city centre, any resources that are included in that new radius will be available to that city.

Thanks, that's precisely my question - the fact that even if you do not work the land past radius 2 (let me call it this way) you get the resources is quite itriguing, to say the less.

[Yoleus]

Originally posted by Faboba
Except there are no sea colonies........ ( as far as anyone knows )

Yes, typo, sorry. I meant "colonies ont the shoreline" that have a part of city radius on the sea.

[Yoleus]

Faboba,
you said that harbours do connect to the trade network.
So we could have sea colonies (not cities, just colonies, as the one in the Civ3 site tutorial) and have them directly connected to the trade network by default, mimicking perfectly the real world "platform" concept.
Right?

[Jason Beaudoin]

No problem Yoleus!

To be more precise on how cities and resources function, although a resouces may be within your cities borders, you need to build a road to that resource to be available to the citizens in your city.

I love that level of realism!

[Jason Beaudoin]

I think that there will be oil platforms in CIV III, and that it will be able to be harvested via a port. ... but who knows, maybe it can be outside your cities borders. No one really knows much about the modern era in this game.

[Yoleus]

Any chances of unofficially official comments?

[Fiil]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
A city size is the same as in CIV II. The difference is the "influence" your civ has on the surrounding area. Although your "influence" may extend past a 2 square radius, your city radius does not get bigger. This means that your citizens in the city can work on land 2 squares from the city centre, but no further.

However, if your city's influence become great and it moves 3 or more squares from the city centre, any resources that are included in that new radius will be available to that city.

IIRC Dan or someone else from Firaxis said in another thread, that the workable city radius do grow. Only much slower than the "influence" radius.
The rest is right though!

[Fiil]

The way it currently stands, your borders are seperate from your "workable city tiles". The number of city tiles you can work does increase as your city grows, but it doesn't expand nearly as far as your city borders do. Even if your city has only the beginning 1-square (no) border, you can work the requisite number of surrounding squares. But until those squares actually fall within your borders, the enemy can come onto them and do what he pleases. Once you've got borders around those squares, you can tell the other players to get out (and in most cases, they listen).

As for colonies, the resources go to whoever builds a colony and connects it with a road first. Consequently, colonies become key while your borders are expanding, and if you leave them unguarded or weakly guarded, you will pay the price. Also, since colonies need to be connected to a city with roads, an enemy can destroy your roads and sever the connection to that resource.

This can be disastrous, especially when you're relying on goods to pacify unhappy citizens. I had a game going this week and the CPU destroyed my roads at a key juncture and sent four cities into revolt.


Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

[This message has been edited by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS (edited May 11, 2001).]

(My 'bolding')

I found the thread.
It's a little old, but nobody said it changed.

[Yoleus]

Thanks Fiil!

[Jer8m8]

Originally posted by GodSpawn
I think the max city radius is 6 (at which point you win the game with "cultural victory). So the max playable radius is 5.

The Ctiy radius is the same as before, 2 squares away.

IT IS YOUR BORDER THAT GROWS TO SIX IN ORDER TO WIN.
You won't be able to work all the squares in your border from a city

[squid]

Dan:
This can be disastrous, especially when you're relying on goods to pacify unhappy citizens. I had a game going this week and the CPU destroyed my roads at a key juncture and sent four cities into revolt.

Wow!

This makes the enemy's pillaging much more dangerous. Now we can have non military targets, too! I wonder if your catapults, bombers, etc, can take out enemy colonies or roads.

And do you need roads to harvest (non-strategic) resources within your city radius?

[Jason Beaudoin]

Wow! That is really cool. Where did you find that Dan quote?

[Yoleus]

Any news from Firaxis? Please, be gentle

[GodSpawn]

Originally posted by Jer8m8


The Ctiy radius is the same as before, 2 squares away.

IT IS YOUR BORDER THAT GROWS TO SIX IN ORDER TO WIN.
You won't be able to work all the squares in your border from a city

Ah, I had a radius/border confusion.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Yoleus
Am I correct if I say:
Anarchy
Monarchy
Republic
Communism
Democracy

There will be no other governments in-box than in Civ1. However I remember a Firaxian (I think it was Dan Magaha) saying that you will be able to create new forms of governments with editor and assign them to particular technologies.

So, if we want, we would be able to create theocracy, technocracy, corporate republic or whatnot.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
Wow! That is really cool. Where did you find that Dan quote?

It's here, Jason… some good stuff in this thread if you missed it:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=5100