A late complain

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
This is true. Everytime I've been to Europe and I told them that I'm from Canada, they couldn't get it past their skulls that I wasn't an American. I don't think they knew where Canada was or that it was an independant country.

To be pedantic, you are American in the wider sense in the same way that I am European as well as Scottish and British Unfortunately the world is such a big place even well educated people can be stunningly ignorant about some facets of it. I thought I knew a fair bit about Europe until I played EU. I knew I had little idea how the Canadian and US regions fitted together, let alone Central and South America and I was right

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Please lets not have another pro/anti US fight. It never gets won by anybody.

You're right. It's not a long time ago, when we had the
previous one. Perhaps it's time for a new one...

That picture is actually quite humorous (IMO).
"US surrounded mostly by communists".

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Falconius

First, the USA IS the best country in the world! That's why most of the world's immigrants come here.

"To bite of more than one can chew."
"Joka kuuseen kurkottaa, se katajaan kapsahtaa."

If I would say that USA is the "best" country to live
in, I would be braindead. Yeap!

How can you be sure that immigrants come to USA,
because it would be "so nice to stay there"?
I have to say right up on your face that many of
the immigrants in USA are illegal (guess why -
bad immigration policies and attitude - "Stay out, Cuban
commies!") and many of those poor ones who immigrate
to US have only heard about the Big Apple and America.
They come to US were they "should be able to make a fortune".
Bulls_hit! Many of them end up in ditches and alleys,
begging for a cent or two, selling themselves as prostitutes,
working as lowpaid employees at McDonald's, etc.
Nice way to live! "The American dream". Bulls_hit!
And is the American society looking after these human beings?
Nope! And don't try to be hippocratic!

Second, the world DOES need America!

True, but who caused it? We - Europeans? No.

We tried to stay out of World War One, but had to come and save Europe from destroying itself. Then we tried to stay out of World War Two, but once again were forced out of our isolation to come save everyone from the warmongering Germans and Japanese. Then the British and French BEGGED us to keep troops in Europe and send some to the mid-east to counter the Soviet threat.
Then we had to prop up the dying European economies with the Marshall plan.

Have you finished your propaganda speech?
If yes, I continue. Tried to stay away from war?
Helped beggars? How cute!

Bulls_hit! You just saw Hitler and WWII as a threat for your own
heartland and financial interests. Saving the rest of the world?
Holy Moses, you have been brainwashed! Russian threat?
Just sold warplanes (Aircobras, Kingcobras, Thunderbolts) to USSR,
so that they could attack little Finland. You SOB! You FAL! ...


Have you ever read about WWII from a non-American aspect?
Apparently not.

And we are merely replacing the British in their role of the "Balancer" in world affairs. With so many fires constantly igniting in the world that threaten to become greater conflagrations, the world needs someone to come along and put out the fire.

Arrrggghhhh! Now you're trying to insult UK!

So you think that USA "balanced" the world by having
war in Vietnam? Or how about Afghanistan 1979?
Not to mention the Gulf and the promise of a free Palestinian
state?

It would be nice to see some international body, like the UN, be given the authority to be the world's policeman, but so far that hasn't panned out. So the top dog is forced into the role.

And thanks to whom has this situation been created?
Suprise, suprise; USA!

Be thankful it was the Soviets that collapsed and not the US. Can you imagine the Soviets as world policeman? At least the US attempts not to harm civilians (depite the fact that we recently lost 6000 of them). A Soviet war machine might not be so polite.

"What a view, what a vision!"
Once again hippocratic? Apparently you are.

And the final conclusion...
To don't take this too personally, but is it really necessary
to promote US like that? I mean, haven't we seen enough yet?

P.S. Added a "you" when editing, nothing else has been changed.

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by tuckson


Nah... Depends on the motive. Revenge is not a valid motive. Extinction of terroristic threat is.

Agreed.

The problem usually is that the US often underestimates anything outside their borders. Besides that, Most Americans are pretty sure The US of A are the best country in the World. Of course other countries have sort a like ideas, only they usually don't try to be the world's police officer. America seems to think the World NEEDS America. Well... it can be used, but the world can survive without the USA I guess.

1. Everyone thinks their country is the best, unless they live in some third world country and are terrorized or abused and then they might not like it as much (or like their leaders anyway).

2. America is the world's police officer because WE'RE ASKED, or NO ONE ELSE WILL HELP STOP CRAP. Look at Bosnia, I don't remember any of the European powers stepping in and trying to stop genocide. I guess America should jus give hundreds of millions in cash and other aid as we do now without lending any kind of military aid as well??

Yeah right, what world do you live in?

Sure, the world would still exist without the USA, but tell me, where would all of the aid to all these countries of the world come from if not for the U.S? Europe? Asia? Africa? lol, yeah right.

It's not we (non-americans) don't like the USA. Not at all, usually they have our sympathy. But if we look at the circus you make of the democratic principle of election, how can you expect to be taken seriously?

And if Americans look at the circus of the Qubec people trying to declare independance from Canada, the scandal's of the British royal families, the French and German business dealings with known dictators and terrorists like Sudam Hussein, China's beat down on humanitarism, etc, how can the people in the US take anyone else seriously??

Face it, almost any country worth a damn in the world has their "differences" and thingsa that make them good and bad. It's easy to stand in the peanut gallery or on the side-lines and say "if we were ahead of the world we could do this", but hell it's better to be out front making mistakes (or not) and learning than sitting in the ass end of things and complaining about the driving.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Simpleton

Your arrogant comments are one of the reasons Americans are disliked throughout the world?

Perhaps they behave worse than Canadians?
I must admit that all the Canadians I have seen,
they have been far more friendly than many Yankees.
Actually, there's a Canadian on my class.

[BigBear]

I know I am really late, but as an American I would like excersise my god given right to annoy foreigners with my ignorant and arrogant opinions:

LordGrey, that map was helarious.

Americans are the most powerful to ever exist. Not because of a powerful military or a huge economy, but because we have television and technology that allows us to extend are opinions and culture world wide.

We do have alot of incredibly stupid people over here, but every nation has their idiots. Our's just sometimes sneak into the presidency.

Not every American could be stupid and fat, otherwise, you would not be getting the greatest game of all time in 15 days.

If you guys dislike Americans so much, hit them where it counts, don't but American products, i.e. Civ 3.

"Dumm" is not the correct spelling.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Yoleus
East Indies Trading Company
Kremlin

The East Indies is a good idea. Brings some
difference to that old Scottish lurk's (Adam Smith)
boutique.

But Kremlin? You mean Kreml? Actually it wouldn't
work, because "kreml" (Russian) means "fort".
And there's not only one Kreml in the world.
Compare to "Acropolis" and "Acropolis of Athens".
So the correct name should be "The Kreml" or
"Kreml of Moscow".

[Jason Beaudoin]

BigBear!

You crack me up!

Anyone ever watch Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americans"?

[jglidewell]

Hey, this is cool, this like a psychologists game of name the first thing that comes to mind. Okay lets go, give me your responses.

I am an American.

I am Catholic.

I am from Finland.

I am from Britain. (Is this different from I am British.)

I am English.

I am a lumberjack.

I am from Canada.

I am Muslem.

I am a terrorist.

I am a European.



And an aside, America is the most powerful because of it's economy, not it's military. France surely has it right and knows what cultural creep is.

America - All the refuse from the rest of the world. No wonder the world thinks America stinks. It has a cousin too, namely Australia.

[Sabre2th]

Hey? One question. If Americans are so proud of their country why is it that they wear Canadian pins and shirts when they vacation abroad?????

I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying here, but I'll try to answer anyway. Many Americans, when visiting Canada, wear pins and shirts out of respect for the country. They like to be able to say they've been there. This holds true for every other vacation spot.

When someone posts crap like this it's so hard to like Americans!

Once again, it is a (very) small group of Americans that are ruining things. The majority of 'normal' Americans are probably going to avoid this argument. This goes back to my post about generalization. Don't dislike Americans just because of this shmuck.

[aiin]

this is getting boring

how about we start a Uruguay vs World thread.

Down with Uruguay they suck

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by Rasbelin

"To bite of more than one can chew."
"Joka kuuseen kurkottaa, se katajaan kapsahtaa."

If I would say that USA is the "best" country to live
in, I would be braindead. Yeap!

Not unless you're from the US then you'd feel that way more than likely, same can be said of British feeling England is the best, etc.

How can you be sure that immigrants come to USA,
because it would be "so nice to stay there"?
I have to say right up on your face that many of
the immigrants in USA are illegal (guess why -
bad immigration policies and attitude - "Stay out, Cuban
commies!") and many of those poor ones who immigrate
to US have only heard about the Big Apple and America.
They come to US were they "should be able to make a fortune".
Bulls_hit! Many of them end up in ditches and alleys,
begging for a cent or two, selling themselves as prostitutes,
working as lowpaid employees at McDonald's, etc.
Nice way to live! "The American dream". Bulls_hit!
And is the American society looking after these human beings?
Nope! And don't try to be hippocratic!

Funny, for someone claiming to know so much about America (and the rest of the world?) you're clearly showing your ignorance.

1. Immigrants came to America because for many of them it was a new chance to make something of their life. The US was less structured and unfettered so people who, in some European countries like for example, Finland, might not have a great chance to be "free" and do what they want could do so here.
2. Many people came to US for Religious "freedom", and to have less biases' against them than they might have in their original country of origin.
3. A BIG CLUE for you, people have always come to the US, legal or not, this is not something "new" since Fidel took over Cuba and not necessarily in the last twenty years from Mexico or other Latin and/or SOuth American countries. To claim that all of them are living in the alley as bums or lying on their back as prostitutes is a completely IGNORANT statement and shows how little you know about the US other than the information you have been spoon-fed instead of discovering information yourself.
4. Immigrants, illegal or otherwise do many of the "menial" and not so menial jobs than others can't or won't. I know several people in the construction business who love immigrants because they work damn hard and get paid well for what they do. Sure $7-$10 an hour might not sound like much for such hard work but for a lot of these people this is much more pay for the same amount of work they'd do in their home countries anyway. Many of these folks also send money back to others outside the US and pay the way for more people to better themselves.
5. Sorry, the US is not a socialist country, it is not (IMHO) society's place to support people who aren't willing to work to make a living. If you've ever been to the US you'll see all sorts of Gas stations, Fast food resturants & hotels owned and making a profit for immigrants. This is not stereotypical, just fact, and the amusing thing is a lot of Americans "look down" upon these businesses without knowing how truly profitable they can be (heh, some of us are dumb!).

Have you finished your propaganda speech?
If yes, I continue. Tried to stay away from war?
Helped beggars? How cute!

I could ask you the same thing, are you done with your little rant against the US yet? It is getting quite tiresome (but still amusing).

Bulls_hit! You just saw Hitler and WWII as a threat for your own
heartland and financial interests. Saving the rest of the world?
Holy Moses, you have been brainwashed! Russian threat?
Just sold warplanes (Aircobras, Kingcobras, Thunderbolts) to USSR,
so that they could attack little Finland. You SOB! You FAL! ...


Have you ever read about WWII from a non-American aspect?
Apparently not.

I have. THings aren't as cut and dry as you'd like them to appear as well. Umm, are you crazy or just stupid? Hitler WAS a threat to EVERYONE'S homeland, which was proven when he conquered HOW many countries??

I can see the true cause of your obvious anti-American bias when you complain and ***** about how the USSR used the equipment we sent them to fight the Germans. Ah, clue for you, but we can't tell them how to use them, you'd be better off complaining to the Russians about their behavior in that war than *****ing at the US for apparently "not policing" what other countries did with the equipment they bought and paid for.

To use a modern example, do you see anyone outraged at the French and German businesses who built the factories and supplied the parts for the chemical weapons plants? No! These businesses simply supplied the parts and knowledge, it's not up to them to tell their customers how to use their products.

Why don't you take your own advice and read some history not slanted by the Finnish view, you might be surprised that you're as "brain-washed" with nationalism as all the other countries citizens who don't take the time to look at the real facts.

Arrrggghhhh! Now you're trying to insult UK!

How is stating the fact that the British Empire was simply looking out for itself first insulting the UK? It's not.

The British Empire did what all empires did, make themselves richer. Doesn't matter how, when or where, all Empires are out for themselves first and fore-most, everything else second.

So you think that USA "balanced" the world by having
war in Vietnam? Or how about Afghanistan 1979?
Not to mention the Gulf and the promise of a free Palestinian
state?

Hmm, to use the earlier Brisith Empire example, did Britian "balance" the world by essentially taking control of India, South, Hong Kong and parts of a lot of other countries (a tad rusty, heh)? Heck no, they did what they felt they had to do to SPREAD their influence and secure or increase their stature in the world. This is NO different than Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan or the GUlf War (which was for oil, yes, but also to support the Arab nations the US can at least talk to).

And the final conclusion...
To don't take this too personally, but is it really necessary
to promote US like that? I mean, haven't we seen enough yet?

In response, and don't take this personally, but haven't we seen enough mud-slinging from other, smaller, countries yet? Is it really neccessary to try to place the blame for the entire world's troubles at the feet of one country? Convient, but hardly honest or true.

[izmircali]

Yeah Uruguay sucks! They couldn't defeat all the big countries around them and got 60% of their population wiped out! Definetely not a civilization to have in Civ 3!!!!!!!!!

[Ozymandous]

Originally posted by BigBear

We do have alot of incredibly stupid people over here, but every nation has their idiots. Our's just sometimes sneak into the presidency.

Clinton?

[Ozymandous]

BTW, they probably didn't do minor wonders for every Civilization because of all the extra art-work involved.

Sure you could clal the Pyramids "The Kremlin" but it would look awfully strange...

However, I agree with "The Pentagon". It could have easily been "Military Headquarters" instead. I'd frown on "Ministry of Defense" because some civilizations don't have "Ministries" but all of them should have a Military H.Q..

[Akaoz]

Originally posted by Falconius


First, the USA IS the best country in the world! That's why most of the world's immigrants come here.

Second, the world DOES need America! We tried to stay out of World War One, but had to come and save Europe from destroying itself. Then we tried to stay out of World War Two, but once again were forced out of our isolation to come save everyone from the warmongering Germans and Japanese. Then the British and French BEGGED us to keep troops in Europe and send some to the mid-east to counter the Soviet threat. Then we had to prop up the dying European economies with the Marshall plan.

Third, the US is now the world's police officer because the world NEEDS a police officer! After the experience of repeatedly going from war to isolationism, we were finally forced to stay out by the length of the Cold War. And we are merely replacing the British in their role of the "Balancer" in world affairs. With so many fires constantly igniting in the world that threaten to become greater conflagrations, the world needs someone to come along and put out the fire.

It would be nice to see some international body, like the UN, be given the authority to be the world's policeman, but so far that hasn't panned out. So the top dog is forced into the role. Who else is gonna do it? The Netherlands!?

Be thankful it was the Soviets that collapsed and not the US. Can you imagine the Soviets as world policeman? At least the US attempts not to harm civilians (depite the fact that we recently lost 6000 of them). A Soviet war machine might not be so polite.

ROFLMAO!

One word: Troll!

-Alech

[Shiva]

Originally posted by tuckson
Nah... Depends on the motive. Revenge is not a valid motive. Extinction of terroristic threat is.

Revenge is not a valid motive? Maybe you need to take a good look at the human race but revenge has been around a long time and isnt going out of style soon. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it less valid than anything else.

Originally posted by tuckson
America seems to think the World NEEDS America. Well... it can be used, but the world can survive without the USA I guess.

Let me point out where your statement is wrong. Lets use economics. Japan is in freefall, zero intrust loans, bad loans to companies that should fail, more bad loans to said companies because if they do fail the banks will close also because they have already invested to much money in them to write them off. Japan keeps spending money to keep the dollar proped up so that imports from them are cheep. Thing is you cant keep that up when you credit rating is downgraded to the same level as Barbados (spelling?). Only one thing will pull them out and thats the US buying thier exports because only we have that kind of buying power. But with the 911 attacks and our shutdown of the economy we're going to have a quarter of recession but in all likley hood just one.
Now lets take a look at the EU. The two biggest economies in it France and Germany are hurting. Both were flat before 911 with France having a very good chance of a recession and after the attack because of the damage to trade both are going to into recession. Germany might have been able to avoid it if it wasnt tied into the EUs inflexable monetary policy. Whats good for Italy isnt good for Germany and so on through the whole mess. The only hope Germany would have is to declare no confidence in the Euro but that would kill the new currency so its doubted that would happen. The only country that can pull the world economy out of its mess is the US, the US drives it. Sorry you cannot get along without it in the real world.


Also take a look at Nato. While the counties in Nato do have armies they do not the support equipment to make Nato effective without the US. Nato has been working on this but is still at least 5 years away from being able to operate effectively without US support. Thats the reason we had to get involved in the Balkans.
Once again the US is needed.

[Jason Beaudoin]

Actually, I think Clinton was an intelligent, charismatic leader who, unfortunately, had a major weakness: young women that like to.... oh... nevermind.

I believe Bigbear was referring to the current President of the USA.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Simpleton

Hey? One question. If Americans are so proud of their country why is it that they wear Canadian pins and shirts when they vacation abroad?????

Funny I dont. Sound like a stereotype to me.

[Sandman]

World police officer?

Simply an updated version of 'the white mans burden'.

Stop pretending.

[Akaoz]

Someone said:

"2. America is the world's police officer because WE'RE ASKED, or NO ONE ELSE WILL HELP STOP CRAP. Look at Bosnia, I don't remember any of the European powers stepping in and trying to stop genocide. I guess America should jus give hundreds of millions in cash and other aid as we do now without lending any kind of military aid as well?? "



I don't think so. Europe is _very_ involved in Bosnia, and other UN missions around the world. Several of my closest friends have served tours under the UN as peacekeepers.

---

Also someone made a comment that the US couldn't be held responsible for the arms they sold to other countries because no-one holds German and French companies responsible for their exports. Newsflash: A lot of ppl hold them responsible. And a lot are working to make sure companies and countries are held responsible for what they sell.

-Alech

[Shiva]

Originally posted by tuckson

But as soon as interests of US and "the world" become different, The US choose NOT to stay close to the world, but go their own way. Today's example of this? The Rocket shield project.

Ahhhh yes. The good old "you dont need no SDI" argument. I always love it when someone from another country says we shouldnt defend our cities. Lets set aside just the number of people who would get killed if a nuclear missile hit a good sized city (and the ones who would die from radiation for years to come) and look at the cost. NewYork had at least 4 buildings (not sure if it was just 2 more destroyed by the WTC collapse) and around 5000 killed (off hand I dont know the number injured). That so far has taken what, 30 to 40 billion in aid (thats just government and major charity work) and will take more in the long run. Now add the damage to the economy (anyone want to guess how much money was lost). This is just a small area of a city and it did all of this (and thats just a quick once over on the cost).

I really hate it when fools (and thats the nicest word i'll use) in my own country say that we shouldnt build it when the loss of life, the damage to the economy, and the damage to future generations would be astronomical from just one missile. What I really find offensive is when morons from other counties say we shouldnt. Its real nice when chances are someone doesnt have a missile pointed at one of your cities. It would be real nice if those people in other counties whos people arnt at stake would kindly FO on this. Its real easy to put other people in harms way.

[Trifna]

I agree... Maybe a little few changes could thinkable. As I know, the Louvre isn't even in Civ III... It was so great that many countries tried to copy over it and pass it, as Russia. But they didn't succeeded. This is a simple exemple like that (one I espescially appreciate).

So I guess a few things could probably be looked at about which wounders should be in.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Rasbelin

Bulls_hit! You just saw Hitler and WWII as a threat for your own
heartland and financial interests. Saving the rest of the world?
Holy Moses, you have been brainwashed! Russian threat?
Just sold warplanes (Aircobras, Kingcobras, Thunderbolts) to USSR,
so that they could attack little Finland. You SOB! You FAL! ...

Are you for real? Just because Finland and Russia were fighting we should have cut off aid to Russia while they we're fighting Germany? Im sorry we didnt send people over there to tell the Russians "you cant use that plane over here only over there" im so sure they would have listened. Also in retrospect being allied with Germany didnt help you guys too much so please give it a rest. Ohh and Btw didnt you guys fly US made Buffaloes?

Originally posted by Rasbelin
So you think that USA "balanced" the world by having
war in Vietnam? Or how about Afghanistan 1979?

Yes I guess we should have just let the USSR have a free hand. Why dont you ask the countries who were behind the iron curtain how they liked it. Again, get real.

Originally posted by Rasbelin
And thanks to whom has this situation been created?
Suprise, suprise; USA!

Ahhh yes, its just the mean old USAs fault, its well known thier behind all thats wrong in the world. Please pull your head out and look around sometime.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
I believe Bigbear was referring to the current President of the USA.

No, that would fit Clinton to a T.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Akaoz

Also someone made a comment that the US couldn't be held responsible for the arms they sold to other countries because no-one holds German and French companies responsible for their exports. Newsflash: A lot of ppl hold them responsible. And a lot are working to make sure companies and countries are held responsible for what they sell.

-Alech

So let me get this straight. Its the fault of the maker of some object on how its use?

[Sabre2th]

I think in this case, The US are prisoner of their own foreign politics from the post WW2 decades. Indeed it's not possible for them right now to retreat and let it all go. They're too deep into it.

This is true, but again, there were good reasons for each of those instances.

And I do think it's a good thing one helps someone else when it can be done. However it's a bit silly to think the us do things for the sake of the world.

Why is that? Just because you're selfish and ignorant doesn't mean everyone is. There were selfish reasons for them, but we weren't involved just because it helped us.

All the world knows that the primary concerns of the US foreign politics are the US own needs.

I'm glad you 'know' this. Tell me: Are you an important part of the U.S. government? Do you lead us in some way?

Examples? The US only got into WW2 AFTER Pearl Harbor.

You can think what you want, but there were many other reasons for that. The Peal Harbor attack was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

The Gulf War only was there because of the US oil needs.

That was the main reason, but again, there were others.

But as soon as interests of US and "the world" become different, The US choose NOT to stay close to the world, but go their own way. Today's example of this? The Rocket shield project.

For once, I agree with you, but do you think the shield is the fault of America as a whole? It was a stupid decision by a not-necessarily-so-smart government.

You bet. Of course we also have some sort of circus. However, Our elections and party programs usually are aimed on capabilities and plans, and not on the person of a political leader him (or her)self. It's a typical American thing to, as soon as a president is installed, dig up his entire personal life and history to find even the tiniest mistake in order to break his career. Things like the Monica Lewinsky story would not happen here because it's a leader's private life. The important thing is how he/she is running the country. That's the reason someone is (re)elected. Not because he could find the most dirty facts about his opponents or because he came up with the longest nicknames for them.

I'm sorry to say that there is more to the election. The media will bring out certain aspects of a candidate's life, but that does not decide the election. This information also says something about a candidate's character and potential leadership ability.

You also mention the Monica Lewinsky case. Maybe it wouldn't have happened in your country and maybe it was his private life, but it did not affect most people's opinion of his leadership abilities. Many, including me, see Clinton as one of the better presidents in our history.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Trifna
I agree... Maybe a little few changes could thinkable. As I know, the Louvre isn't even in Civ III... It was so great that many countries tried to copy over it and pass it, as Russia. But they didn't succeeded. This is a simple exemple like that (one I espescially appreciate).

So I guess a few things could probably be looked at about which wounders should be in.

How dare you try to get this thread back on topic!

Honestly, I feel like whatever on-topic comments have been made are getting lost in all the non-topic rhetoric. As I've already stated, the new wonders (from what we've seen) do tend to have a more American flare than otherwise, and yes, some diversity would have been welcome. But, as Yoleus pointed out, the complaint came late, and now we have to live with the game as is or resort to the editors for some variety.

[Faboba]

That's the main problem with the wonder videos going...... the possible loss of wonder.

You go to Paris and see the Eiffel tower, and its a 'wow' believe me. But for some reason the video of it was even greater than the tower it'self

To me the wonder videos brought home the majesty and beauty that has been achieved by all civilizations on the whole planet.

Civilization is not about how great America is, it's about how great humanity is. That is why it always worked for me.

We shouldn't be making everything American, everything generic or anything just token. We should make the small wonders generic ( I mean 8 pentagons????? ) and use the great wonders to celebrate the wonder and majesty of all the races of man on the earth as that, to me is what civilization was always about.

*Faboba shudders at his own optimism then returns to his cloud of despair, which has gone at least for the moment, from black to grey.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by tuckson

The Gulf War only was there because of the US oil needs.

Because of the WORLD'S oil needs. Or would you have preferred Saddam taking Kuwait and then invading Saudi Arabia?
Remember, there were 30 other nations who joined the military coalition against Iraq.