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Old October 15, 2001, 15:43   #91
August Borms
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Damn, the thread just started to get back ontopic - sorry
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Old October 15, 2001, 15:48   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Faboba
Civilization is not about how great America is, it's about how great humanity is.
Exactly!! Just wanted to make everyone read that again.
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Old October 15, 2001, 15:59   #93
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Oh new game idea

Sid Meier's Americalization

You and the computer throw insults at each other to praise or bash America's place in history.

Plus MP will be build in and you will be able to talk trash with players all over the word.
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Old October 15, 2001, 16:07   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by aiin
Oh new game idea

Sid Meier's Americalization

You and the computer throw insults at each other to praise or bash America's place in history.

Plus MP will be build in and you will be able to talk trash with players all over the word.
The sad part is that I think people would actually buy it
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Old October 15, 2001, 16:17   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jason Beaudoin
Actually, I think Clinton was an intelligent, charismatic leader who, unfortunately, had a major weakness: young women that like to.... oh... nevermind.

I believe Bigbear was referring to the current President of the USA.
I know who he was referring to, "Clinton?" was a joke. You could probably tell who BigBear voted for in the last election as well...

Hmm, funny thing about Bush, his IQ is probably a little above the average US citizens IQ, yet people like to label him as "stupid". I guess all the upper-crust, "our-guy-didn't-win" folks don't like the fact that George W. is your "average man" emboddied in politics (IQ wise anyway) and not some smooth talker who lies through his teeth blatantly because of a huge ego.

Anywho, this thread wasn't about politics so I'll leave it at that.

(Edit: If George W. lies he'll do it bumbling and stumbling through a speech! Heh, but then, who, as your average American, wouldn't stumble and bumble when giving a speech in front of 20 people much less 200 million, heh)

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Old October 15, 2001, 16:23   #96
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Quote:
Anywho, this thread wasn't about politics so I'll leave it at that.
It wasn't meant for America bashing either. Say whatever comes to mind
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Old October 15, 2001, 16:32   #97
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Re: please!
Quote:
Originally posted by Yoleus
In first place:

EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP DIGGING CULTURAL TRENCHES!

Hmmm... Pity, I kinda liked it...
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Old October 15, 2001, 16:43   #98
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I can't believe I read every post in this thread! I guess I was just waiting for it to take a turn for the better, as you know, it never happened.
 
Old October 15, 2001, 16:54   #99
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Gee, I'm finding out I really like this tread. it's fun...
Well, here we go again...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandous

2. America is the world's police officer because WE'RE ASKED, or NO ONE ELSE WILL HELP STOP CRAP. Look at Bosnia, I don't remember any of the European powers stepping in and trying to stop genocide. I guess America should jus give hundreds of millions in cash and other aid as we do now without lending any kind of military aid as well??

Yeah right, what world do you live in?

Sure, the world would still exist without the USA, but tell me, where would all of the aid to all these countries of the world come from if not for the U.S? Europe? Asia? Africa? lol, yeah right.
I guess it's the same world as you. Only with some clear glasses. No-one asked the US to be police-officer. That's one thing most Americans said so much to themselves they started to believe it.

For the crap issue someone else already mentioned stuff like Vietnam and so on. For Bosnia? We were there... maybe not at our best, but we were there.

But as stated earlier, the US do nothing without seeing some benefit for themselves. Take the UN, For years the US refused to pay their contribution, up to millions of dollars. Now the US needs the world's support for the Afghan attacks, and suddenly it's being paid (Or at least promised, dunno if the money 's already transferred).

And eehhh... I'm pretty sure Holland really does receive NO aid from the US since WW2 and the Marshall plan( which actually also was a benefit for the US for they needed solid trade partners).

Quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandous
And if Americans look at the circus of the Qubec people trying to declare independance from Canada, the scandal's of the British royal families, the French and German business dealings with known dictators and terrorists like Sudam Hussein, China's beat down on humanitarism, etc, how can the people in the US take anyone else seriously??
Well, actually if Americans look at those things, they'll think they're watching Jerry Springer. But ehh.. you forget the Dutch drugs and gay scene.

Seriously, The mentioned examples (except the british one maybe ) do not really match the example of your elections. Americans wants the world to believe that their president is actaually the most powerful man, maybe even the leader of the world. And he is elected through a media circus in which he (among others) may tell that his opponent smoked a joint 30 years ago? And this level of competition should point us to "the leader of the world"?

Nah... thanks...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ozymandous
Face it, almost any country worth a damn in the world has their "differences" and thingsa that make them good and bad. It's easy to stand in the peanut gallery or on the side-lines and say "if we were ahead of the world we could do this", but hell it's better to be out front making mistakes (or not) and learning than sitting in the ass end of things and complaining about the driving.
Well, those mistakes may turn out to be pretty expensive ones. It's not like playing in a sandbox, you know. Of course every country has it good and bad.

That's what's making this discussion so much fun.
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Old October 15, 2001, 16:59   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigBear
I know I am really late, but as an American I would like excersise my god given right to annoy foreigners with my ignorant and arrogant opinions:

LordGrey, that map was helarious.

Americans are the most powerful to ever exist. Not because of a powerful military or a huge economy, but because we have television and technology that allows us to extend are opinions and culture world wide.

We do have alot of incredibly stupid people over here, but every nation has their idiots. Our's just sometimes sneak into the presidency.

Not every American could be stupid and fat, otherwise, you would not be getting the greatest game of all time in 15 days.

If you guys dislike Americans so much, hit them where it counts, don't but American products, i.e. Civ 3.

"Dumm" is not the correct spelling.
Hmmm... Can't tell you why, But I really, really like your post.
Not bad for a settler... especially an American one (Sorry, can't let it go )
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:26   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
Revenge is not a valid motive? Maybe you need to take a good look at the human race but revenge has been around a long time and isnt going out of style soon. Just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it less valid than anything else.
Nope, Revenge is a often used motive for violence. However, this does not make it more valid.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
Let me point out where your statement is wrong. Lets use economics. Japan is in freefall, zero intrust loans, bad loans to companies that should fail, more bad loans to said companies because if they do fail the banks will close also because they have already invested to much money in them to write them off. Japan keeps spending money to keep the dollar proped up so that imports from them are cheep. Thing is you cant keep that up when you credit rating is downgraded to the same level as Barbados (spelling?). Only one thing will pull them out and thats the US buying thier exports because only we have that kind of buying power. But with the 911 attacks and our shutdown of the economy we're going to have a quarter of recession but in all likley hood just one.
I agree on the fact that the US buying Japanese products helps their economy. But again, that's no charity. The US needs Japan as much as Japan needs the US. Just like the US needs Europe and the rest of the world. Economies nowadays are far too much strangeld (Is this english? I mean sort of bound to each other, but then really, really close) to be serious in saying one does not need another. When somewhere economy goes down, It affects most of the world because of the globalizing of economies.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
Now lets take a look at the EU. The two biggest economies in it France and Germany are hurting. Both were flat before 911 with France having a very good chance of a recession and after the attack because of the damage to trade both are going to into recession. Germany might have been able to avoid it if it wasnt tied into the EUs inflexable monetary policy. Whats good for Italy isnt good for Germany and so on through the whole mess. The only hope Germany would have is to declare no confidence in the Euro but that would kill the new currency so its doubted that would happen. The only country that can pull the world economy out of its mess is the US, the US drives it. Sorry you cannot get along without it in the real world.
Of course I know of the EU and it's problems. A fact not known by most americans is that the dutch currency (Guilder) has always been in close relationship with the German one (Mark). Sometimes the guilder even replaced the Mark on the first place of strongest currency in Europe. So indeed introduction of the Euro is feared by many over here. However, When Europe as a Monetary Union is a fact, a much stronger tradepartner rises than just the sum of the member countries. And as unity makes power, I'm not sure the position of America remains the same in trade negotiations. Instead of small country governements the US has to deal with one larger governement. Of course Europe will benefit from trade with America. And it will take some time to fullfill the rise (Just as it took the states of America some time to act as a country). But I do not agree this can only be done with help of the US. Actually, the U.S. are not waiting for a united Europe.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
Also take a look at Nato. While the counties in Nato do have armies they do not the support equipment to make Nato effective without the US. Nato has been working on this but is still at least 5 years away from being able to operate effectively without US support. Thats the reason we had to get involved in the Balkans.
Once again the US is needed.
Did you pay your contribution already?
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:27   #102
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I wasn't going to get into this but...
This guy made me barf!

Quote:
Originally posted by Falconius


First, the USA IS the best country in the world! That's why most of the world's immigrants come here.

Second, the world DOES need America! We tried to stay out of World War One, but had to come and save Europe from destroying itself. Then we tried to stay out of World War Two, but once again were forced out of our isolation to come save everyone from the warmongering Germans and Japanese. Then the British and French BEGGED us to keep troops in Europe and send some to the mid-east to counter the Soviet threat. Then we had to prop up the dying European economies with the Marshall plan.

Third, the US is now the world's police officer because the world NEEDS a police officer! After the experience of repeatedly going from war to isolationism, we were finally forced to stay out by the length of the Cold War. And we are merely replacing the British in their role of the "Balancer" in world affairs. With so many fires constantly igniting in the world that threaten to become greater conflagrations, the world needs someone to come along and put out the fire.

It would be nice to see some international body, like the UN, be given the authority to be the world's policeman, but so far that hasn't panned out. So the top dog is forced into the role. Who else is gonna do it? The Netherlands!?

Be thankful it was the Soviets that collapsed and not the US. Can you imagine the Soviets as world policeman? At least the US attempts not to harm civilians (depite the fact that we recently lost 6000 of them). A Soviet war machine might not be so polite.
a) last time I checked, propaganda makes immigrants come to a country. That and country size. You are much bigger than any European country, most countries in fact, so it's an unfair comparison anyway.

Incidentally, propaganda also brainwashes people to be like you.

b) you did not save anybody in WWI. Your help is, of course, appreciated, but it was very little, very late. WWI was won without America.

World War II, America had a larger part in. BECAUSE THEY WERE ATTACKED BY THE JAPANESE. You mostly fought the Japanese too, with the notable exception of the D-DAY invasion. Nevertheless, Germany was toast without America. The Soviets were the wons who truly won the war.

I don't know enough about that recent European history for me to argue the next couple of paragraph b) points.

c) No, the world does not need America. If not you, then another. And besides, many people are quite rightly ticked-off at that world cop affair. I agree, though, about the UN should be a world cop and that it hasn't panned out yet so America takes over in the interim.

d) Evil always loses in the end. The Soviets were crumbling from within; it was not American attacks that ended the union. America and Soviet Russia really only managed to scare people to death.

And as for more universal comments:

AMERICA is NOT the strongest country ever.

LOTS of countries have TV. Canadians even invented this thing called an "Omnimax", which is an all-around spherical TV theatre thingy. I don't know all the inventions of all the countries, so I won't list one for every country. But they have MANY.

A lot of knowledge comes out of America. Not 50% though. And it DOES come out of America, it can't be hoarded.

Really, many Americans are great. But on average, they are worse than most other developed countries (I have statistics to back this up: Canada, Sweden, and Norway have the brightest individuals, almost everybody is more informed about the world than Americans...remember, these are averages. THis is not an attack on you, but it does mean that it doesn't "balance out in the end".
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:29   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
I guess it's the same world as you. Only with some clear glasses. No-one asked the US to be police-officer. That's one thing most Americans said so much to themselves they started to believe it.
Sorry the heads of Nato asked the US to enter into the Balkans because they couldnt do the job without the US. They were also ask not to leave because it would destabilize the situation. Sure counts as being asked and just because its in our best intrest for Europe to remain stable doesnt invalidate it. The same with aid, and anything that is done. Welcome to the real world, all countries act it there best interest and if your going to invalidate one for doing please be fair and invalidate all if you would be unbiased.

Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
For the crap issue someone else already mentioned stuff like Vietnam and so on. For Bosnia? We were there... maybe not at our best, but we were there.
Thing is if europe would have dealt with the problem at the start the US wouldnt have had to get involved. Just like europe at the start of WW2.


Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
And eehhh... I'm pretty sure Holland really does receive NO aid from the US since WW2 and the Marshall plan( which actually also was a benefit for the US for they needed solid trade partners).
False. The only western european country that didnt was Spain. Check your history books.
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:35   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
I really hate it when fools (and thats the nicest word i'll use) in my own country say that we shouldnt build it when the loss of life, the damage to the economy, and the damage to future generations would be astronomical from just one missile. What I really find offensive is when morons from other counties say we shouldnt. Its real nice when chances are someone doesnt have a missile pointed at one of your cities. It would be real nice if those people in other counties whos people arnt at stake would kindly FO on this. Its real easy to put other people in harms way.
Hey, no need to get rude, Okay?
I just gave an example of the US going their own way instead of looking after other countries as soon as their interests differ.
(Also look at the US refusal of signing the recent environmental treaty).

The problem for the Rocket shield is that apearantly the US lack the capacity to think as others than only America itself. The rest of the world has no guaranty that After coompletion of the shield America backs off and hides behind the shield leaving the rest of the world unprotected. The balance of power in the world would seriously change. And I'm not sure that's a good thing.
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:35   #105
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Quote:
No-one asked the US to be police-officer. That's one thing most Americans said so much to themselves they started to believe it.
Kuwait didn't ask for our help in 1991?
Israel & the PLO don't both call every day asking for US help?
The US isn't called upon to mediate in Northern Ireland?

The list goes on & on. Of course we'll look out after our own interests - isn't that the definition of government? Looking after your own nation's interests?

To say no one asks us to act as police-officer is ridiculous. The US is asked all the time to mediate or take action all over the world.
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:47   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson:
The problem for the Rocket shield is that apearantly the US lack the capacity to think as others than only America itself. The rest of the world has no guaranty that After coompletion of the shield America backs off and hides behind the shield leaving the rest of the world unprotected.
So America has 2 choices in your mind:

a) Don't develop the shield, although the main function of a nation's government is to protect the safety & interests of its populace.

b) Develop the shield, but don't leave the rest of the world unprotected? Let them share the shield? That's fine with me, but wouldn't that be America intervening in the affairs of others? Wouldn't that be America acting as the world's police officer? Doesn't sound like that help is wanted..
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:49   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson

Nope, Revenge is a often used motive for violence. However, this does not make it more valid.
Never said it made it more valid just say that your statement about it not being vilid is false.

Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
I agree on the fact that the US buying Japanese products helps their economy. But again, that's no charity. The US needs Japan as much as Japan needs the US.
Never said that the US didnt need anyone just pointing out how your statement that the world could get along without the US is false. Right now the world economy in in a rut. Japan through its past bad money lending has basically slaved its economy to the USAs (works great durring boom times, very bad spot to be in during a bust). The EU while being a union still retains its differing economies of member states while not allowing them to retain differing monetary policies (cant do it and still have one currency). Because of this the only country in europe that could have avoided a slide (Germany) is being pulled in with everyone else. The only other option would be for Germany to break confidence with the Euro and that would kill the currency. That leaves the US as the only one who has a chance of putting the world economy back on track. Sorry its the facts.


Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
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For?
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:53   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
Why is that? Just because you're selfish and ignorant doesn't mean everyone is. There were selfish reasons for them, but we weren't involved just because it helped us.

I'm glad you 'know' this. Tell me: Are you an important part of the U.S. government? Do you lead us in some way?
Again, no need to put it on the person, neither do I. I like a discussion based on arguments, not on personal attacks, OK?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
You can think what you want, but there were many other reasons for that. The Peal Harbor attack was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Of course not. The situation before Pearl Harbor was the following. The US war industrie ran at full speed. The Attacked European countries could "loan" weapons in exchange for the nation's gold which was shipped to the US. After the war the gold was " bought back with which actually the weapons were being paid. Why would the US get directly involved into the war? The war was already going on for nearly 2 years before the US finally got into it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
That was the main reason, but again, there were others.
Of course there were. But the main reason ois the reason one starts the war for.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
For once, I agree with you, but do you think the shield is the fault of America as a whole? It was a stupid decision by a not-necessarily-so-smart government.
Hmmm.. Dunno if it is that stupid. Only badly marketed
From an American point of view it's not hard to understand the desire for the shield. If only America would understand and cope with the concerns of other nations.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
I'm sorry to say that there is more to the election. The media will bring out certain aspects of a candidate's life, but that does not decide the election. This information also says something about a candidate's character and potential leadership ability.
In principle I can agree, but I think the whole thing usually is overdone far to much.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre2th
You also mention the Monica Lewinsky case. Maybe it wouldn't have happened in your country and maybe it was his private life, but it did not affect most people's opinion of his leadership abilities. Many, including me, see Clinton as one of the better presidents in our history.
The whole circus in many parts of the (western) world is being seen as a typical american thing. Over here the most heard reaction was something like "what does it matter when he's doing a good job?" I too liked Clinton. Not only because of some of his capabilities, but especially he had the guts to show himself as a human, and not only as a advisor driven Robot.
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Old October 15, 2001, 17:55   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
The problem for the Rocket shield is that apearantly the US lack the capacity to think as others than only America itself. The rest of the world has no guaranty that After coompletion of the shield America backs off and hides behind the shield leaving the rest of the world unprotected. The balance of power in the world would seriously change. And I'm not sure that's a good thing.
First off I though the world didnt want us as the policeman of the world so why should we protect the rest of the world. You cant complain about one thing and when we do what you ask complain about that. Also we have offered to protect a number of our allies with said SDI. If they dont wish this then it is hardly our fault and hardly a reason to leave ourselves unprotected.
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:10   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva


Sorry the heads of Nato asked the US to enter into the Balkans because they couldnt do the job without the US. They were also ask not to leave because it would destabilize the situation. Sure counts as being asked and just because its in our best intrest for Europe to remain stable doesnt invalidate it.
OK, You're right on that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
Thing is if europe would have dealt with the problem at the start the US wouldnt have had to get involved. Just like europe at the start of WW2.
Can agree on the first one. The lack of decisive guts of our governements offended many people over here. For WW2 it's not fair to state that. I agree on that our material was old and bad, but figthing against an overwhelming enemy, Holland fougth 5 days while Hitler counted on 1. This made him mad enough to order a mass bombing onto the heart of one of our main cities (Rotterdam). The whole city heart was blown away. After that our military Commanding Officer decided to surrender as the Germans threatened to bomb the centers of other cities too. Do not forget we are their direct neighbors.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiva
False. The only western european country that didnt was Spain. Check your history books.
Don't think so. After The Marshall plan, I think no further help is received from America. If you know otherwise, please be so kind as to give an example. Always willing to learn.
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:14   #111
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Re: I wasn't going to get into this but...
Quote:
Originally posted by Your.Master
b) you did not save anybody in WWI. Your help is, of course, appreciated, but it was very little, very late. WWI was won without America.
Hehe sorry you need to read some history books. France held on because of American troops and suppies. Maybe you have never heard about the state of the French army and the revolt at the time. Americas entry into WW1 broke Germany's moral because they knew the couldnt out last the allies then. Germany gave up, they were still on French soil at the time. Theres a reason for it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Your.Master
Nevertheless, Germany was toast without America. The Soviets were the wons who truly won the war.
False, without the lend lease shipments Russia would have fell. Both Stalin and Zukkoff ( I know its spelled wrong) stated as much. Makes you wonder why this myth is still around on the internet and in schools.

Quote:
Originally posted by Your.Master
d) Evil always loses in the end. The Soviets were crumbling from within; it was not American attacks that ended the union. America and Soviet Russia really only managed to scare people to death.
False , the USSRs economy crumbled trying to keep up the cold war. In the end the USSR tried to reform its economy by adding more freedom to the mix. Once freedom gets out of a bottle its impossible to get back in (in this day and age anyway) and the rest is history. You can also say that western culture had something to do with it.

And as for more universal comments:
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Last edited by Shiva; October 15, 2001 at 18:33.
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:32   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
For WW2 it's not fair to state that. I agree on that our material was old and bad, but figthing against an overwhelming enemy,
No it is a fair statement. If the Versailles treaty would have been enforced then WW2 would not have happened (still might have had a pacific war). Britain and France forced a punitive treaty on Germany (President Wilson of the US did not support it and warned being to harsh would cause trouble down the line).
Frances army was far stronger than Germanys and could have easily marched in an disarmed Germany again. Instead they waited till it was too late. (you can see the same thing with Iraq now, dont put your foot on someones neck and then take it off).
At least the world learned from the most part from this mistake and it wasnt repeated (with Japan).

Quote:
Originally posted by tuckson
Don't think so. After The Marshall plan, I think no further help is received from America. If you know otherwise, please be so kind as to give an example. Always willing to learn.
Sorry I took what you had posted on that the wrong way. I though you had meant that they had not received anything under the Marshall plan. My mistake. I'll dig around for anything else after the Marshall plan though just to be sure
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:46   #113
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Quote:
Again, no need to put it on the person, neither do I. I like a discussion based on arguments, not on personal attacks, OK?
I'll admit, that was uncalled for. I apologize, but my point is the same.

Quote:
Of course not. The situation before Pearl Harbor was the following. The US war industrie ran at full speed. The Attacked European countries could "loan" weapons in exchange for the nation's gold which was shipped to the US. After the war the gold was " bought back with which actually the weapons were being paid. Why would the US get directly involved into the war? The war was already going on for nearly 2 years before the US finally got into it.
Not one of those 'reasons' proves your point. Yes, the industry picked up, etc., but that doesn't mean that's why we got involved. Like I said, there were many reasons.

Quote:
Of course there were. But the main reason ois the reason one starts the war for.
No.... Just because it's not the main reason doesn't mean it's not a reason. Reread that. Some reasons are bigger than others, but all play a part in the decision.

Quote:
Hmmm.. Dunno if it is that stupid. Only badly marketed
Poor choice of words. The government should have been more careful with the decision.

Quote:
From an American point of view it's not hard to understand the desire for the shield. If only America would understand and cope with the concerns of other nations.
Again, there is quite a bit more to it. One reason for the shield is the world opinion of the U.S. Many people hate it. With the new abundance of nuclear weapons, every country is a threat. Potentially unstable third world countries and terrorist groups are the main reason for the shield.

Quote:
In principle I can agree, but I think the whole thing usually is overdone far to much.
Then YOU try to change the media.

Quote:
The whole circus in many parts of the (western) world is being seen as a typical american thing. Over here the most heard reaction was something like "what does it matter when he's doing a good job?" I too liked Clinton. Not only because of some of his capabilities, but especially he had the guts to show himself as a human, and not only as a advisor driven Robot.
And any American worth anything was saying the same thing.
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:50   #114
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Now you'll have to excuse me if this comes out a bit garbled, I have a bunch of stuff in my head and I do want to try and get it down coherently.

Off Topic-
About me: I'm English (British/European), I live in Oregon, West Coast, United States of America. I am a resident alien, having married a wonderful US lady. I've been here three years (as of last Friday), so I am eligible to become a citizen when I take the exam.

My Observations:
The people of the United States are as informed as the English in terms of current affairs.
World news is difficult to come by here, so it doesn't really fall into "current affairs" in a conventional sense. (I tend to watch BBC America in addition to CNN, and read The Times online).
People have very natural feelings of pride towards their home nation, some inevitably stray into the realms of Xenophobia. There are extreme right wing organizations all over the world.

The years since I came here are the happiest of my life. There is a culture here that has allowed me to succeed. I intend to become a citizen, I will have pride in both the nation of my birth and of my residence. The American people are in my experience warmer and friendlier than those I grew up with. I am made to feel at home here and many people share their "English" story with me, for which I am grateful. ("My grand mother is from...", "I have a cousin in..", "I was stationed in" etc).

Needless to say it pains me to see such bitterness between people who are essentially allies, and if they are here necessarily have something in common.

I thought long and hard before adding my ingredients to the melting pot for fear of what they might cause. I hope I made the right decision.

On topic-
A bank of names for each of the minor wonders would be more appropriate, though undoubtedly a difficult task. One name for each country for the great temple, military HQ, Moon Mission, Atomic weapons project and so on. With the combined brains trust here however this is, I'm sure, an achievable goal.

Thanks for provoking me, this is by far my longest post.
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Old October 15, 2001, 18:59   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by down th' pub
World news is difficult to come by here, so it doesn't really fall into "current affairs" in a conventional sense. (I tend to watch BBC America in addition to CNN, and read The Times online).
Yep, thats the biggest prblem here. You have to go out of your way for world news. I almost never watch the big 3 for news because you only get what they want you to hear about. I mostly watch Fox,MSNBC, and of course BBC America (I was so glad when they added it).
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Old October 15, 2001, 19:08   #116
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I too live in the States but watch the BBC for a lot of my news. The big 3 networks here really do have their own news agendas.
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Old October 15, 2001, 19:09   #117
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Quote:
Really, many Americans are great. But on average, they are worse than most other developed countries (I have statistics to back this up: Canada, Sweden, and Norway have the brightest individuals, almost everybody is more informed about the world than Americans...remember, these are averages. THis is not an attack on you, but it does mean that it doesn't "balance out in the end".
Worse? That is seriously one the most generalizing and dumbest things I have seen yet. How can you say a group of people is "worse?"

Also, I was not saying that America is strong because they invented the Television. I am saying that because the United States developed to become a world power during the age of television, we have more global influence (power) than any other nation could possibly have ever had. Honestly, how much Canadian news and television do you watch (unless your from canada)? They may be Comedian-rich, but no one in Germany watches a canadian Bay Watch, (i don't know, forest watch or something).

Whatever though, you took my previous post way to seriously. I was trying to lighten up the mood.
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Old October 15, 2001, 19:31   #118
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I give up! I'll no longer attempt to get this thread back on topic. You people are like the Borg - resistance... you know...

Quote:
Originally posted by aiin
Oh new game idea

Sid Meier's Americalization

You and the computer throw insults at each other to praise or bash America's place in history.

Plus MP will be build in and you will be able to talk trash with players all over the word.
Actually MP will not be included.
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Old October 15, 2001, 21:42   #119
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just to put these arguments into civ terms... you know when you were doing really well in civ2 and the ai players would make pacts to contain 'xxx country's aggression' even if you weren't attacking but just because you were powerful? that would be happening to the usa in todays world if the real world leaders had the ai and bloodthurstiness of civ2. luckily the world seems to be evolving faster as time goes by and maybe someday wars, and their like will be a very rare occurance(we haven't gotten to that stage yet). in civ3 terms usa could be coined the 'dominant culture', but maybe tomorrow it'll be the chinese, french, the islamic fundamentalists, etc.

couldn't pass up adding, but anyhow i don't really care one way what they name the wonders, improvements, etc as long as i can easily recognize what they mean. i would actually lean towards generic terms for everything since that makes the most sense to me as you usually aren't playing the americans(or whatever country that matches wonder names to country).

one more thing, i always find these discussions meaningless. you can't help the ignorant on either side by discussions like this, you just make things worse as some people(believe it or not) take these discussions very seriously.
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Old October 15, 2001, 21:58   #120
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Quality of Life Index as established 1998

High Income Countries

Canada .935
Norway .934
United States .929
Australia .929
Sweden .926
Japan .924
United Kingdom .918
France .917
South Korea .854

Middle Income

Poland .814
Lithuania .789
Russian Federation .771
Ukraine .744

Low Income

Democratic Republic of the Congo .430
Guinea .394
Ethiopia .309
Sierra Leone .252


I think we can all agree upon one thing. It's not bad to live in western Europe or America. However, it'd really suck live in Ethiopia. The difference in Quality of Life between America and Europe just isn't that great...
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