16th Nov release date completely unnaceptable !!

[drake]

No, it's just that I don't trust ordering anything from outside the Netherlands, Germany, France, and the UK

We won't let those bastards put anthrax in the ship order I promise

[GodSpawn]

It's always a friday here. Anyway, I've waited several years for it; a couple more weeks isn't going to hurt.

[GodSpawn]

Originally posted by drake

We won't let those bastards put anthrax in the ship order I promise

As someone said at work the other day: "Does this coffee taste a bit anthraxy to you?"

[Earthling7]

I preordered this biscuit box and knowing where it's coming from, I'll sniff it for any funny powders and stuff. But let me tell you this. If I see the game available online before the postman rings twice, I will press the button and see it trickle down my wire.

[FrostyBoy]

The simple fact that Firaxis/infogrames are not doing a world wide release, leaves me to believe that they are going to lose a lot of money. It's a really STUPID move.

Many people will have said to themselves that they will buy it when it comes out, but they hear it won't be released until 2 weeks after the US release, so what will they do? warez it! 2 weeks later, do you honestly think anyone is going to think about buying it? like hell.

[Steve Clark]

You twerps that will be downloading an illegal version of a licensed product make me sick. What the **** gives you the right to do that? Is your life so pathetic that your immature impatience causes you to steal?

Don't bother responding to my rant, I don't want you to try to justify this.

[aebbeka]

Originally posted by CapTVK
How DARE they release it without MP! They should postpone the release until it's finished!

If they're going to release it without multiplayer, they could atleast cut the price in half since we're only getting half the game. But, until a mp patch is made, I will very much enjoy single player.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sn00py
The simple fact that Firaxis/infogrames are not doing a world wide release, leaves me to believe that they are going to lose a lot of money. It's a really STUPID move.

Many people will have said to themselves that they will buy it when it comes out, but they hear it won't be released until 2 weeks after the US release, so what will they do? warez it! 2 weeks later, do you honestly think anyone is going to think about buying it? like hell.

Oh give me a break. The number of people who would normally buy the game and would know how to actually "warez" it is a miniscule fraction of the game-buying public. A miniscule fraction of unethical, immature little thieves, yes, but still miniscule.

[Roman]

Originally posted by drake
A US company being US Centric huh?

Shame on them!
(Its a lot easier to ship in ones infastructure)

They'll get there soon enough...don't soil your drawers

Hmm, Infrogames is a French and therefore a European company and they still release Civ 3 in the US first.

16 day wait is easily bearable, but it is the principle which matters. All enterntainment products seem to be released sooner in the US than in Europe. Why???????

[FrostyBoy]

Boris, I understood that, but Firaxis could lose a lot of money over this tiny action.

Look at it from this point of view:

If the rest of the world got Civ3 16 days before America, do you think most of American's Civilization Players, are going to wait for it? I don't think so, I think they'll be tempted to get a burnt copy or download it.

[HalfLotus]

The drive home from Best Buy will surely be a fast one.

[fanatic civver]

I'm glad it comes out 16 days later. That way you yanks can tell us whether the game is worth buying or not Anyway I have uni work and other games to play in the meantime.

As to the warez argument. Most people who warez civ 3 probably had no intention of buying it anyway. Although I do agree that there are some people who would have bought the game as soon as it is released but cannot because of a 16 day wait. So instead they get the warez version then realise the game is crap or that it is not as good as it should be and so do not buy the game.

[SITS]

Originally posted by Earthling7
I preordered this biscuit box and knowing where it's coming from, I'll sniff it for any funny powders and stuff.

Sniffing Anthrax is not such a good idea....

[Rince]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
You twerps that will be downloading an illegal version of a licensed product make me sick. What the **** gives you the right to do that? Is your life so pathetic that your immature impatience causes you to steal?

Don't bother responding to my rant, I don't want you to try to justify this.

I wouldn't post stuff on a discussion board if i didn't want an answer. So:

Your standpoint is as immature as the one of people who download games and never buy one. The reasonable way lies in between.


Rince

[mtgillespie]

I think Firaxis have to take some responsibility for the annoyance of UK (potential) buyers. Why announce a simultaneous US/UK release if it was something they had no control over? I'm impatient for the game, and that impatience comes from the fact that we've been told for weeks (and even the latest update says this) that we would have it on the 30th with the US. If they had said mid november from the start, that's when i would have expected it.

As for Warez, i may do that to play it early, but i'll still buy the game once it's out over here, unless it's REALLY terrible (which would amaze me). Had Firaxis released a Demo, i'd have got that instead.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sn00py
Boris, I understood that, but Firaxis could lose a lot of money over this tiny action.

Look at it from this point of view:

If the rest of the world got Civ3 16 days before America, do you think most of American's Civilization Players, are going to wait for it? I don't think so, I think they'll be tempted to get a burnt copy or download it.

Yes, because the vast majority of people who buy computer games don't do it the day it comes out. I would personally wait 16 days or 30 days if I had to before stealing something. I am not a thief. I have no sympathy for the "I'll-burn-it-then-buy-it" crowd, either. If I shoplift from a store, they won't care if I insist I was eventually going to pay for it.

What's so hard to understand about theft being wrong? To quote the film Zoolander, I feel like I've been taking crazy pills!

[Rince]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

If I shoplift from a store, they won't care if I insist I was eventually going to pay for it.

Come on! That's a totally different situation. It's more like breaking into a bookshop and photocopying a book and put it back afterwards. Then come back after about 16 days and buy the book.

Rince

[drake]

It just come downs to this. Patience is a virtue.

A very good virtue for an individual to have. Impatience is a fault.

Take it for what its worth. But its a universally accepted concept.

[Rince]

I won't download Civ3 because i don't want to spoil the moment of buying the
game and playing it for the first time. And because i have the patience.

But impatience isn't the only reason for legitimately downloading warez, and
why should virtues be universally accepted?

Rince

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Rince


Come on! That's a totally different situation. It's more like breaking into a bookshop and photocopying a book and put it back afterwards. Then come back after about 16 days and buy the book.

Rince

So now we add breaking and entering to the list of crimes? Oh, the ignomy!

Personally, I don't believe most people who claim they will steal-then-buy. I may not be the best judge of human nature, but someone who has no qualms about theft in the first place isn't going to make a big effort to shell out money after the act is done. Maybe 1% of people who steal it will do that. It's far easier to assuage one's conscience with such lame excuses beforehand and then do likewise afterwards with claims that the game "wasn't good enough to pay for."

I don't mean to come across as Inspector Javert here, but then again, we aren't talking about stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving child, either. It's a computer game, not a life necessity. There's no excuse for those who steal it, especially since in the long run they end up costing honest consumers more.

Blaming the company for "forcing you to steal it" because there is a delay in release dates for different countries is a crock of BS. This is no better a justification that stealing it because you think the price is too high.

[drake]

But impatience isn't the only reason for legitimately downloading warez, and
why should virtues be universally accepted?

Why are you asking me? Impatience is an ugly thing. It is a fault in any culture.

I'm not discussing warez at all...If thats the way one evaluates whether they want to buy a product or not, I dont care. I personally would rather get reliable recomendations from trusted sources, but thats just me.

[mtgillespie]

Boris :

A couple of points. I think your "1%" of people who would buy after downloading is an extremely low estimate. In surveys of napster users, it was found that people who downloaded music they thought they would like were far more likely to go out and buy the artists album than non users. And i know surveys can be made to say anything, i merely use that example to suggest your figure is out.

i can't speak for anyone else out there, but i'm sure i will buy the game when it's out over here. Because of that, i consider that all i'm doing is obtaining the game from an alternative source. I was told i could have it on a certain date, for whatever reason i have been let down. If there was a demo version i would get that instead. I don't want to ship it from the states in case there is a problem, as it would take weeks to sort out returns etc.

As for the company "forcing you to steal it" (your quotes), i haven't seen anyone saying they were forced. everyone makes their own decisions. However, it is very bad public relations to give a release date when you have no control over it. I still don't understand why they announced the UK date, when they avoided giving details for any other country.

Having said all that, for people who intend to download the game as a way of not having to pay for it, your comments are perfectly valid.

BTW, who's inspector Javert

[Rince]

Originally posted by drake

I personally would rather get reliable recomendations from trusted sources, but thats just me.

The only source I trust is me. Who else can you trust? Friends, Reviews? I've been disappointed of recommendations of both of them. And if one would happen to browse through apolyton forums, you could easily get the impression of ctp2 being a bad game for example.

Even if only 1% of warez dowloanderz actually buy the game if they like it, you can't throw them together with the real thiefs. That would be black-and-white-thinking which i really hate.

Rince

[drake]

I trust people who enjoy the same style of civ as me.

If I got a recommendation from them, I would certainly buy it. If they said it sucked, I would probably think so too.

Thats whats so great about apolyton So many opinions that are so incredibly easy to access.....

I wouldnt take a reviewer from some game magazine or anything...but a review from a dedicated civ fan? Yeah, I probably would.

[Rakki]

play it, like it ? play it some more, buy it.



i don't trust my friends to make recommendations on games. Most of 'em are trigger happy quakeheads. So while they were playing Quake I was playing Delta Force.

when you venture away from the "what's hot at your local shop" you have to be a bit more discerning about what you choose to buy......


"The herd mentality means you don't have to think. It doesn't mean the herd is necessarily going the way you want to go. "

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by mtgillespie

BTW, who's inspector Javert

Inspector Javert is the primary antagonist in Les Miserables, the greatest French novel ever (IMHO)! Javert is police officer who relentlessly hounds the hero, Jean Valjean, over 17 years. Valjean spends 19 years in prison for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his sister's starving son (under early 19th century French criminal justice, this was entirely plausible). After he is released, Valjean breaks parole and tries to start a new life under a new identity. But Javert is constantly on his trail, as Javert believes in an ultra-strict code of law and order, and anyone who violates the law to any degree is unredeemable. In the end (not to ruin the story), Valjean saves Javert's life during a student revolt in Paris. Javert then lets Valjean go free, and since he can't reconcile his black-and-white sense of duty with his sense of compassion for the man who saved him, Javert goes and chucks himself off a bridge into the Seine River.

But I digress...

I don't know about the statistics, but I'm confident most people who pirate software/music/movies/etc. never end up paying for them.

You may intend to pay for it, but I bet you are the exception rather than the rule. And it is those non-exceptions that are costing consumers more $$. But is stealing then paying still stealing? Yes. And when these theives who have pirated the game see you downloading it, they aren't thinking that you will pay for it. They merely see a demand for their stolen product, so they are encouraged to keep stealing.

The "forcing to steal" was a reaction to arguments that the disparity in release dates somehow justified piracy. It doesn't. So what if Firaxis made a mistake about the release date? Does that give someone the right to steal? Not at all.

[mtgillespie]

Well, even if you can't say you changed my opinion, at least you manged to increase my "culture rating" slightly

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by drake
It just come downs to this. Patience is a virtue.

A very good virtue for an individual to have. Impatience is a fault.

Take it for what its worth. But its a universally accepted concept.

Give me a break. I agree, patience is a good thing to have, but knowing when to have it is even better. Who gives a **** that someone is playing a game thats not available in their country yet, if the game is going to be bought by them?? Denying yourself something because its 'technically bad', even though it doesnt hurt anyone at all is pointless and stupid.

Note, this only applies to people who download the game while its not out in their country. The people you were attacking for their "lack of patience". Somehow i dont think that your high estimation of patience will stop you playing the game as soon as its available to you.

[Khab]

Boris,

I'm right now being torn between waiting for it to buy it, or trying to find it warez'd on the 30th - I'd love to play it ASAP - this is the game I've been waiting for for five years. On the other hand, I'd lose a lot of that 'magic' feeling when you open the box, get the manual and disc out, and smell the "new game smell" (to use one of Rich LaPorte's favourite expressions).

Realize this - barring finding the game being totally unplayable upon warezdownload, I'll buy it. If for nothing else so that I push some dough towards CivIV . Now, Maybe I should be patient. On the other hand, when I don't HAVE to be patient, it's a hell of a lot harder to be so.

You have the luxury of living in the US, getting it on the 30th (one of the few pros of living there . This makes all your calling anyone who wants CivIII at the same time as you a thief a bit hollow, IMHO.

It's not easy, basically being told you're not worth enough to make an effort for - not as much as some others, at least. And I don't even want to think about the UK players, which literally have been lied to, it seems ('course we all have been, considering MP, but hey...).

Anyway, the jury in my head is still out on this one. And it's not an easy call.

[DanS]

Doesn't the game have to pass the censors or something? You brits have some funny laws...