Thread Tools
Old October 26, 2001, 13:55   #1
albiedamned
Rise of Nations Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 513
Can Armies Cross Oceans?
A friend of mine just raised this very interesting question: can armies be loaded on ships and cross oceans?

I hope the answer is yes, provided the ship in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, if triremes can only carry two units then they could not transport 3 unit or 4 unit (post-Pentagon) armies. But Galleons, with a higher capacity, could.

If the answer is no, then it would be extremely difficult to get an army to a continent you want to attack. You would have to establish a city on that continent (either take over one or found one in unclaimed territory), get a Great Leader to that city, and get all the units for forming the army into that city. All that would be very tough to do if you are under enemy fire!
__________________
Firaxis - please make an updated version of Colonization! That game was the best, even if it was a little un-PC.
albiedamned is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:04   #2
Ecthy
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of FameSpanish Civers
Emperor
 
Local Time: 17:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,491
Err...
I don't know for how long you have been playing CIV now, but I doubt they have abolished one of the most important features, namely the ship transportation of units
Ecthy is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:08   #3
albiedamned
Rise of Nations Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 513
Re: Err...
Quote:
Originally posted by Ecthelion
I don't know for how long you have been playing CIV now, but I doubt they have abolished one of the most important features, namely the ship transportation of units
Thanks for the flame - I've been playing Civ since 1991. I didn't ask whether all sea transport has been abolished - of course it hasn't. I'm wondering specifically about the rules for transporting Armies.
__________________
Firaxis - please make an updated version of Colonization! That game was the best, even if it was a little un-PC.
albiedamned is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:14   #4
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Firaxis Games
 
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Metropolis known as Hunt Valley
Posts: 612
Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans?
Quote:
Originally posted by albiedamned
A friend of mine just raised this very interesting question: can armies be loaded on ships and cross oceans?

I hope the answer is yes, provided the ship in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, if triremes can only carry two units then they could not transport 3 unit or 4 unit (post-Pentagon) armies. But Galleons, with a higher capacity, could.

If the answer is no, then it would be extremely difficult to get an army to a continent you want to attack. You would have to establish a city on that continent (either take over one or found one in unclaimed territory), get a Great Leader to that city, and get all the units for forming the army into that city. All that would be very tough to do if you are under enemy fire!
Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport.

Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon.

Dan
__________________
Dan Magaha
Firaxis Games, Inc.
--------------------------
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:15   #5
Wittlich
lifer
Call to Power II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerTrade Wars / BlackNova TradersCivilization III PBEMPtWDG Vox ControliCivilization III Democracy GameCiv4 SP Democracy GameC3CDG EuphoricaIron CiversCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV PBEMC4WDG United Dungeon DwellersDiploGamesC4BtSDG TemplarsPolyCast Team
Deity
 
Wittlich's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Baron of Sealand residing in SF, CA
Posts: 12,344
I would have to say that yes, armies can board ships and cross the ocean - but only if the ship/transport in question can carry the number of units in the army. For example, a simple trireme could not transport an army, but a transport could.

Disreguard, Dan has answered the question. Thanks again Dan!
__________________
____________________________
"One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
____________________________
Wittlich is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:15   #6
Kc7mxo
King
 
Kc7mxo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,038
i doubt they overlooked this, and if they did, it'd be an easy fix.

dont' worry so much. :-)

or at least worry about important things.
Kc7mxo is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:18   #7
albiedamned
Rise of Nations Multiplayer
Prince
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 513
Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport.

Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon.

Dan
Thanks for the info! Slightly unfortunate that the army unit itself counts against you, but I can live with it. I guess that means you won't realistically be transporting armies across oceans until Galleons, unless you want to build armies of 2 units. But that would be a waste of an army, since there is no way to add to or modify an army once it is created.
__________________
Firaxis - please make an updated version of Colonization! That game was the best, even if it was a little un-PC.
albiedamned is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:20   #8
Gastrifitis
Chieftain
 
Gastrifitis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The happy land of Engineers
Posts: 89
No specific facts available here, but I would have to imagine your idea about ship capacity not being less than army size would be implemented to some extent. Another possibility: If military units can be merged to form armies, what might be done with transport units? Maybe two or three transports could be forced to travel as one to move a large army. What a naval target that would make.
Gastrifitis is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:23   #9
Stuie
King
 
Stuie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philly
Posts: 2,961
Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


Just ran a test to confirm that you can transport armies in ships. The one caveat is that the "army" unit (i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude") is apparently counted as a unit when calculating whether there is "room" on the transport.

Thus, you can't transport a full "pre-pentagon" army (4 units, counting the "flag dude") until you have a Galleon.

Dan
Who playtested this thing!?

I guess you can rationalized that an army (pre-pentagon) is made up of the three units plus support/command etc. that enable it to be an army, thus requiring the extra room.

Or you can fess up and say that it was overlooked in playtesting.
__________________
"Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
"I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
"Stuie is right...." - Guynemer
Stuie is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:28   #10
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Firaxis Games
 
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: The Metropolis known as Hunt Valley
Posts: 612
Re: Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans?
Quote:
Originally posted by Stuie


Who playtested this thing!?

I guess you can rationalized that an army (pre-pentagon) is made up of the three units plus support/command etc. that enable it to be an army, thus requiring the extra room.

Or you can fess up and say that it was overlooked in playtesting.
I'm fairly confident it was intentional -- from the looks of it it seems like it is designed to throttle back the reach of armies so that the first civ to get an army doesn't wipe everyone off the face of the earth with an army in a trireme

In any case, it's easy enough to alter transport capacity of units (and for that matter, armies) with the editor...


Dan
__________________
Dan Magaha
Firaxis Games, Inc.
--------------------------
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:39   #11
dennis580
Warlord
 
Local Time: 09:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 134
Yea armies are already powerful enough. So I'm glad we won't be able to transport armies with any of the early ships.
dennis580 is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 14:43   #12
dennis580
Warlord
 
Local Time: 09:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 134
Dan I know you can switch units in a Army, but can you upgrade the units in a Army. Also how diffcult is it to trade for another civ's army at the bargaining table. I hope the price is extremyly high.
dennis580 is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 15:27   #13
SerapisIV
King
 
SerapisIV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hartford, CT, USA
Posts: 1,501
Re: Re: Can Armies Cross Oceans?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
(i.e., the now-infamous "flag dude")

Dan
What is this? Am I being mocked for my eccentric use of vernacular English? What did I do to deserve this?

PS- Ever figure out what the floating crunchy-style amphibian (reptile? ) sandwich's name is? (Don't worry I'll make sure I keep trying to think up more obscure and pointless questions to bother you with Dan )
SerapisIV is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 15:45   #14
Fintilgin
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 15:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 81
Hey, it makes sense to me. The flag bearer represents all the logistical support and organization needed to run an actual army.

Something I was wondering though... I know we can't switch units in and out of armies, but if a unit in an army dies can we put a new one in?

Joe
Fintilgin is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 15:59   #15
Jason Beaudoin
Prince
 
Local Time: 10:14
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 478
Ya... I think Dan got a real kick out of your Vonacular English Serapis!

I think he likes to use the "flag dude" quote.
__________________
Of the Holy Roman Empire, this was once said:
"It is neither holy or roman, nor is it an empire."
Jason Beaudoin is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:14.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team