MOO1 strategy

[Father Beast]

those wiith just moo2, go away.

I have been playing the glorious MOO again, but I suck at it.

Even when playing on average, I seem to get stomped. like now, I'm playing as sakkra, small galaxy, 5 opponents, and I have 3 colonies with the furthest one under constant attack by the klackons or the silicoids. I have a slight edge in construction tech, and that makes me able to shrug off the hordes of invadres come to slay my colonists. But I can't seem to get these guys out of my skies! my fleet is too wimpy to get rid of the orbiters.

is there some strategy I should use to get ahead on this game? it seems there are some people who win at impossible regularly, but I can't seem to hack it.

I mean, at the higher difficulty levels, within 50 turns it says the silicoids are taking over with 6 systems colonized!

[pchang]

Concentrate all your research on one tech at a time. You need to advance your missile tech and build missile bases so that your planets become impervious to attack. Then, you can concentrate on developing planets one at a time. Then, build a up a battle fleet to take over one planet at a time.

[Father Beast]

WOW!!!

I managed to come from behind and win the election to master!

Got to do this again with another race.

as the sakkra, I was able to stave off invasions by outbreeding the invaders. they were never able to send enough troops to take over. by the time their bombardment equipment got effective, I was able to finally get the out of the sky.


anyway....


When I start a game, I generally divide my tech between construction, planetology, and propulsion, with a BIG emphasis on propulsion. I find if I can get my ships where they are needed fast, it makes a big difference. also helps get me out in the galaxy faster, since I'm often stuck where I would have to settle that ultra poor world just for a stepping stone. my colony ships are so expensive at the start.
Construction and planetology help get factory costts and waste down, and planetology gets me access to those inferno worlds that are often rich.

so, Pchang, you reccomend going for a single tech? and weaponry at that? since I'm not so good, I guess I can't knock it. in early game, it seems to take so long to build a single missile base....

got to try it, especially when I'm getting smashed. this slow expansion kind of bothers me. I had one game where I was just minding my own business, when the rest of the galaxy elected the other guy master!!!!! that was on simple, and I ended up conquering anyway, but it's very annoying!

so, pchang, do you regularly win on impossible?

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Father Beast

When I start a game, I generally divide my tech between construction, planetology, and propulsion, with a BIG emphasis on propulsion. I find if I can get my ships where they are needed fast, it makes a big difference. also helps get me out in the galaxy faster, since I'm often stuck where I would have to settle that ultra poor world just for a stepping stone. my colony ships are so expensive at the start.

so, Pchang, you reccomend going for a single tech? and weaponry at that? since I'm not so good, I guess I can't knock it. in early game, it seems to take so long to build a single missile base....

I think you've pretty much got it down.
As well as the vitally important nuclear/sublight drives, you want to focus on, ideally getting to one of the improved robotics techs and one of the pollution reducers. Get to this point, along with a couple of controlled environ techs and you should be set. Building missile bases early on is, I think, a waste of vital funds.
I can win most of the time on impossible using similar tactics but this is in a huge galaxy so my perceptions may be a little clouded
Also I'd recommend staying away from planetary shields until you're ready for them. Being forced into building a shield before any defensive bases is not fun

[DaveV]

If I have some habitable stars within range of my colony ships, I'll split my homeworld production points as 50% eco, 25% ind, 25% ships. New colonies get a quick reinforcement of about 20% of their potential population (if possible, people who weren't working factories). Once their industrial production is better than 3 factories/turn, I'll put a couple clicks into defense and one click into ships.

Once I've colonized all the stars I can reach (except ultra poor), I'll put a couple clicks of every planet into defense, one click into ships, and the balance split between industry and research. All planets build the most expensive huge ship I can design; I upgrade the design with every new construction, propulsion, or weapons tech. If I see an invasion force coming, I'll switch production to the best ship the planet can produce in time. Planetary defense ships always emphasize low-tech missiles. Shoot them at the enemy, they back away. Meanwhile, your planetary missile bases are pounding away.

I'll try to set up the cheapest trade route with all the aliens, except for Erratics (I figure they'll declare war eventually, so I just spy for techs against them). Once relations improve enough, I go for a Non-Agression pact. If relations really improve, I'll crank up the trade. I'll trade for key techs (scatter pack missiles, improved robotic controls, terraforming, controlled environment). I always keep a few clicks in spying, just to keep track of the other races' techs. Spies hide if I'm not at war, steal tech if at war. I try to invest enough to keep two or three spies active against races from whom I'm trying to steal tech.

On tech, I'll usually dial back one click on all techs, and split the extra between the racial weakness and computers (to make my spies more effective). I'll steal computer tech first for the same reason.

Once my production has built up to the point where I can actually build some ships, I'll start expanding. I try to control the airspace above a planet, strip away its missile bases, then invade with a huge number of troops from several planets. I love looting techs from captured factories.

I don't win every time at impossible: the AI production bonuses are sometimes insurmountable, and the random events can sometimes just kill me. An awful lot depends on starting position. Also, my race is a big factor in the game difficulty. Klackons, Humans, Psilons, Darloks, Sakkra, and Silicoids are the easier races for me (in roughly that order); Mrrshans seem to be the hardest.

If you don't have the strategy guide, try to find it! It ruins the mystery of the game to some extent, but it has a wealth of information.

[Father Beast]

Wow! big load of good info.one question, though...

Originally posted by DaveV
On tech, I'll usually dial back one click on all techs, and split the extra between the racial weakness and computers (to make my spies more effective). I'll steal computer tech first for the same reason.

by "racial weakness" do you mean the spot each race is lousy at? I thought each race had a strength. like the sakkra would be strong in the planetology area. What do you mean on that anyway?

[Father Beast]

OK, I found an html strategy guide at:

http://www.gamesdomain.co.uk/moo/moostr1.html

it references a number of things I hadn't heard of, like the klackons have lousy propulsion tech. I always wondered why I had trouble getting decent propulsion tech with them....

thanks for all the help, dave. going of to read....

[DaveV]

FB - from page 63 of the game manual:

Alkaris are weak in Force Fields
Bulrathi are weak in Computers
Klackons are weak in Propulsion
Meklars are weak in Planetology
Mrrshan are weak in Construction
Silicoids are weak in everything but Computers

[pchang]

At the beginning of the game, your research output is low, so I only research 1 tech at a time, but I switch which tech I research to get what I need most at that point. Since you were facing numerous invasions, I recommended building missile bases and getting improved missile techs

[aaglo]

Originally posted by pchang
At the beginning of the game, your research output is low, so I only research 1 tech at a time...

...this is VERY ESSENTIAL in my opinion.

BTW, I think that MOO1 and the precessor Starlords will never leave my HD . Nor will MOO2...

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by aaglo

...this is VERY ESSENTIAL in my opinion.

BTW, I think that MOO1 and the precessor Starlords will never leave my HD . Nor will MOO2...

err... Starlords? it's available from Jon sullivans page, but I haven't played it. is it kind of like MOO?

[rexer]

[vmxa1]

Wow, I can't believe others are still playing MOO. I played everyday for the first two years, now I still get in a game every month. I last played on impossible level, but normally play Hard on a small universe (fast game). I prefer the klackon. Games always come down to a point where you must servive a stretch of heavy attacks. It is so easy (usually) to beat the attacks with missile bases. If you get a decent missle for that period, you can put up one small ship with a 5 pack and drive them back while the bases beat them to death. If they come with 4 or more stacks, you may need a second small ship. I like to stay at war with everyone if my planets are buffed out, make peace if I am building a new planet. Then you get the point where the vote can end the game, so you may need to get peace with someone to stop them from voting. By the time I get my 5th or 5th planet the game is a lock. I like to leave Orion alone until I have learned all of the tech and stole the rest, so I can get new stuff. Moo2 would not allow that style as they will go after Orion. In larger map you need star gates to defend all of you planets or go around busting their fleets. Once you get High Energy Focus you can build attack fleets to take over and hold planets. The tech tree can be handled may ways, but I often like to start with extra in Planetology until I get a + pop and Propulsion to increase range. After that I want Construction. Once I get all of a tech I swithc it down to a mim, except Construction (want to have more room in ships and lower cost). In a small map it is all about location. A start with two good planets close is key. If I can get a terran or Ocean and a Jungle near by at the start I am off and running.

[Urban Ranger]

I found the Klackons the best to play in MoO, followed by Meklors, Psilons, and Alkaris.

My priorities for early research are Planetology, Construction, and Computers. I tend to keep Force Fields low. The first two have techs that allow me to reduce spending on eco, construction lets me build factories cheaper and computer lets me build more factories per population. In other words I concentrate on boosting my production. Klackons are superior in that aspect since with +1 prodution their workers are as good as factories, so I don't have to spend money on factories on a planet until the pop is up to full, or at least close to it.

Planetology also lets me to house more colonists on planets, which of course leads to more production

In the beginning I rely on missile bases to fend off attackers (unless I play the Alkaris) and concentrate on maxing out production.

Also if I can't find a single colonisable planet within 3 parsecs of my home planet I'd start over. It's too much of a hassle to wait for longer range fuel cells.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Also if I can't find a single colonisable planet within 3 parsecs of my home planet I'd start over. It's too much of a hassle to wait for longer range fuel cells.

I didn't think this was actually possible - ie: thought the game was seeded such that there is always an available/colonizable planet at the start for your first colony ship.
In all of the games I've played I don't think I've ever had a situation where I couldn't immediately build a colony.

Personal favourites are the psilons. Not necessarily because they're the best race for me but rather for deniability to the AI. Whenever I run up against them as an AI race its generally an unpleasant experience ...

[Urban Ranger]

Sometimes they can be dangerous.

[vmxa1]

Ravagon, it is extremely rare, but I have encounter two games where I didn not have a planet in range. To me it is not enough to have a planet in 3 parsecs, I need one good one close by and another not far bother on hard or impossible. You can win with worse, but it is no fun.

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Also if I can't find a single colonisable planet within 3 parsecs of my home planet I'd start over. It's too much of a hassle to wait for longer range fuel cells.

I was reading a strat guide that suggests you can play if there's no stars close to you. scarp your colony ship and build up your planet. your CS costs 10 BC in maintenance and you might come from behind still. he admits it is a challnege, though.

[Urban Ranger]

FB,

I read the same thing too. It'd be very tough on the harder levels. I think I may be able to pull that on average with just the right mix of opponents, i.e., nobody that expands like the plague.


ravagon,

IIRC, in one game I had 3 systems in range. One was Orion , the other had no usable planets and the last one had a hostile environment. No fun

[vmxa1]

Yes, I should have mentioned, if Orion is one of the very close ones, I will likely not play. I would say at hard if no planet in 3 parsecs, you are toast. At impossible you will definetly lose (assuming no cheating). If the close planets are not habitable, it is nearly the same. I say nearely as maybe Barren could be ok (not really as it has such a low population and production. CertainlyToxic or Radiation is worthless as a starting neighbor. Note that on Hard and small, if you get high ratio of bad (toxic/barren, etc) and had Silicoids, you are in big trouble as they will grow so fast, you are in danger of being voted out. Also on small, if they Humans are able to expand, it can be tricky as most species are willing to vote for them. Often the three or four vote can be fatal, if you can not get enough planets to stop the vote. It can get down to buying one vote to abstain.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
ravagon,

IIRC, in one game I had 3 systems in range. One was Orion , the other had no usable planets and the last one had a hostile environment. No fun

Orion was in range and you didn't attack immediately with your colony ship/scout armada???!!!

I've never had a situation where there hasn't been a system in range able to be colonized immediately, henceforth I guess I assumed the game to seed planets that way - Never considered that Orion might actually count.

As a matter of interest has anybody playing the silicoids ever been in a start location without access to any normal (ie: No controlled env. techs reqd) planets - in spite of the fact that they don't actually need them?

[Urban Ranger]

I suck at playing the Silicoids. I have no idea how they can expand so fast as they seem to have very little production.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I suck at playing the Silicoids. I have no idea how they can expand so fast as they seem to have very little production.

I always thought the Silicoids were great in the early game. Not having to spend any money on ecology gives them almost double the production of the other races. Their biggest problem is slow population growth, which you can deal with by transporting population points around. I try to keep each planet around 50% of max population while I'm expanding, since that's where growth is the fastest. Once I'm out of room to expand, I clean up the waste and fill up the planets by buying population. Terraforming is a very important tech for the Silicoids, since a lot of their planets will have miserably low max populations.

[Zealot]

Originally posted by DaveV
I try to keep each planet around 50% of max population while I'm expanding, since that's where growth is the fastest.

Looks like I'm not the only one who knows it!
This strategy can also be applied in MOO 2.
Just wanted to emphasize this strategy.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Zealot
Looks like I'm not the only one who knows it!
This strategy can also be applied in MOO 2.
Just wanted to emphasize this strategy.

Yeah well, everybody else hates the Silicoids in MoO 2

[vmxa1]

I can not even remember the other species and how to play them as I have only used Klacs for the last 4 years. I had played the others but not for a long time. I use the same color all the time in Moo and Moo2 (yellow) and the same species to keep it simple. In Moo2 I used a custom species of course with the face of the Psilons. I seemed to remember the Silicoids were the hardest to play and one of the hardest to play against. They are my least favorite to have in a small map as that seems to convey more planets with unhospitable atmosphere. They can then expand every where. Them and the Humans are my biggest concern for the council vote. Them because they have lots of planets and Human because most will be willing to vote for them. If they are in the game and have a bad placement then you are golden. Bad placement being that they are hemmed in by others or in the case of the humans the near planets are tundra or worse.

[Father Beast]

Using the cheat programs, mapedit and oreo, it isn't so bad on higher difficulties.

I realized just how important initial placement is when I played a game on impossible with 4 other races on a medium map, and edited the map so all the other races were clumped together in a corner, with only a couple ultra poor and radiated (non rich) worlds within reach of anything less than around 8 parsecs. I played the silicoids and surrounded my home planet with rich and ultra rich worlds. colonized like mad and found myself electing myself high master without ever meeting another race.

probably not the way it was meant to be played.

I've also givem myself a leg up on hard and impossible games by using the oreo program to reduce all the other worlds to 5 pop, no factories, and get rid of their colony ship. But on hard as the klackons, the sakkra and the silicoids were as big as I was. eek.

still a challenge, but not quite so bad.

[vmxa1]

I do not know what Oero is and do not want to as cheating is just not rewarding. I played for years on hard and impossible and did not kow you could cheat. I only found out a few months ago you could edit save games. It is not challenging to have an unloseable game.

[Father Beast]

Well, I don't play it as unlosable. Once I find that a certain cheat makes it unlosable for me, I don't feel like using it again,like the map clustering.

giving myself a head start is kind of like the head start scenario we had on the civ2 strat forum where all the AI civs start with 5 cities and monarchy. just reversed to give myself the head start. says something awful about my abilities, I'm sure.

Of course, you can always edit it to give yourself the handicap.

[ravagon]

While I don't get any enjoyment out of cheating (and hence don't do it) I have occasionally altered the max populations (upwards) of all of the homeworlds of the in-game races. I feel that this gives a better chance for those that start in a really bad position to get more out of it. I think its also more realistic to have homeworlds with much higher potential populations than colonies - even those terraformed to gaia status. In Moo1 I tend to try to keep all of the races alive (albeit under my terms
) on the off-chance that one of them will acquire a certain tech I want but cannot research.