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Old October 30, 2001, 02:20   #1
Mahdimael
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Avault review 4/5
Hey all, there's a review up at adrenaline vault. They gave civ3 4 out of 5 stars. Go check it out.

Lots of positives mentioned, some negatives:

-AI was unreasonable in diplomacy.
-Modern age feels unfinished (lack of units, wonders)
-Modern units routinely destroyed by ancient units (mech inf vs swordsman) (a bug?)
-Screen scrolling is very jerky/slow (a bug?)
-Corruption/ War Weariness are problems (duh)

Overall, I thought it was a fair assessment, though I do question the reviewers comments about Corruption and War Weariness. I'll have to play to see if his complaints are valid or if they're just misguided.

The game sounds great, and if there's anything that sounds disappointing, it's the fact that the modern age seems unfinished. Again, I will have to play the game to see, so who knows

link:

http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=civ3

edit: interesting...the IGN preview says that the spearman/battleship thing isn't a big deal...be interesting to see who's right
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Last edited by Mahdimael; October 30, 2001 at 02:31.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:22   #2
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i hope its not like CtP where my stealth bomber was destroyed my a musketteer and a cannon.. i quit playing CtP because of that.

either way, my LE tin is on order
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:28   #3
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The AI doesn't have to be reasonable in diplomacy. I mean, look at the state of our current modern world.... "reasoning" with someone doesn't always work.

("Screw the diplomacy ! We need that oil, so send in the Marines !")

I wonder how war weariness works... does it kick in if you lose a lot of units ? (Everybody loves a winning war ).
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:30   #4
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Holy God ... this review basically made me want to avoid Civ3 like a plague. Let me explain:

Quote:
In fact, it's impossible to move smoothly when you drag your mouse pointer to the edge of the screen, so I ended up clicking on the mini-map to speed things along.
This is unacceptable in a modern game.

Quote:
This brings me to the negative aspects of Civilization III's gameplay, and unfortunately there are many. For starters, a number of units -- mostly those in the Modern era -- are either underbalanced or unrealistic in their lack of potential. For instance, while relocating a Cruise Missile to one of my other cities, it happened to stop accidentally in an open tile. During the enemy's turn, an Archer shot down my Cruise Missile, instantly destroying it. Just how an Ancient era Archer is capable of hitting a Cruise Missile moving at 300+ MPH and destroying it with an arrow is beyond me. Unfortunately this trend continues with other units; as experienced Civilization players recall, it was sometimes possible for a Phalanx to destroy a Battleship in prior titles. This is no longer possible in Civilization III, since sea units (like those in the air) can now only bombard ground targets. However, it is possible for Mechanized Infantry (the best defensive unit) to be destroyed quite easily by an Ancient Swordsman (an attack rating of 3 vs. a defense rating of 18, in case you were wondering). Allowing for some random chance, as the manual states will happen, such cases should really only occur once in a great while, but unfortunately, they happen routinely.
I hope everybody reads that one carefully! Absolute garbage! And this is Civ3?!

Quote:
Lastly, it seems as if Firaxis reached the Modern era and then stopped short. While there is a full slate of technological advances, this era is almost barren of Wonders and new unit types. In fact, some of what was in Civilization II, such as launching satellites into orbit and eliminating the fog of war, is missing here. Furthermore, while the Diplomacy system is more robust than before, it's also a bit lacking in feeling. For instance, the use of nuclear weapons or razing a city is considered an atrocity and in Civilization II, the computer players would let you know it. Here, such things are par for the course, and many nations routinely go razing cities, nor do they get all that upset when you lob several ICBMs their way.
Great. Yet another installment of: Bore yourself in the end game. Brilliant. Just brilliant.

Quote:
Once Firaxis implements multiplayer, there won't be any reason to avoid this game, which again proves itself to be both fun and addictive to play.
In other words, SP sucks. That's what he's saying ... and your best hope for a good game will be MP. Any questions?
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:36   #5
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Yeah, I've got a question -

After having worked on Civ3 for so long, and supposedly being the masters of the genre, and having left out multiplayer all together to concentrate on single player, could Firaxis still have made this many errors?
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:38   #6
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There's only one hope: The guy is playing an old beta build by mistake. I'm serious. Otherwise this is just a horrid game. I'm not trying to exaggerate here. These are disgusting mistakes!
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:38   #7
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It should be noted, however, that avault never reviews or looks at strategy games, so that may indicate they don't know how to play The corruption and war weariness comments lead me to believe that.

I don't take stock in any of these reviews...other civers will be my guide (and since all of those who got the game are not posting here, I'll assume they're enjoying themselves )
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:38   #8
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Yin, if you read a post above yours, the PC.IGN guy said the spearman/mech infantry thing is very rare.

And interesting:

Quote:
note, however, that is it no longer possible to trade food as it was in Civilization II, so starvation can occur often.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:45   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mahdimael

I don't take stock in any of these reviews...other civers will be my guide (and since all of those who got the game are not posting here, I'll assume they're enjoying themselves )
Which is why I'm thankful that Civ3 doesn't come out over here until the 16th of Nov - I'll be able to listen what people on Apolyton, voices I can trust, have to say about the game, instead of rushing out and buying it and (possibly) wasting my money.

....Still...I had plenty of time to listen about CTP2, and I didn't....For some reason, even if people on this board call it one of the worst games ever....I'll still probably buy it.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:47   #10
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THIS is interesting:

Quote:
As a last point, Civilization III does include full-motion video clips when you build a Wonder, but these are much shorter than those in Civilization II and only run for a few seconds.
Has anyone mentioned this who has the game? First I've heard.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:51   #11
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modern era units vs ancient units...let's guess the difficulty level he was on...MAYBE that is why he finished all the tech too early and felt his game barren.

I'm for deity.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:53   #12
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all that bad stuff and it got a 4/5? (8/10)?

Btw: I agree Yin. Sounds pretty bad. Lets hope it's not right
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:55   #13
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Well, he did say he played games on Warlord and a few on Regent (ie, Prince) and that is what he used for the review.
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Old October 30, 2001, 02:58   #14
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Actually, he said he played on Reagent difficulty...not quite the same thing.
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:01   #15
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Look here:

http://www.avault.com/reviews/avscre...pic=civ3&num=5

CARRIER
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:06   #16
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"In fact, some of what was in Civilization II, such as launching satellites into orbit and eliminating the fog of war, is missing here. "

"For instance, the use of nuclear weapons or razing a city is considered an atrocity and in Civilization II, the computer players would let you know it."

Ummm isnt he talking about SMAC? Maybe they should stick to FPS games.

So anyone with the game seeing the stuff this guy is talking about (since the IGN guy didnt see it the same way) so we can get a real players view?
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:07   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Look here:

http://www.avault.com/reviews/avscre...pic=civ3&num=5

CARRIER

Holy cities batman.
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:13   #18
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Quote:
Modern units routinely destroyed by ancient units
SHEEEEEESH!!!!!! IT'S SIMPLE!!!! Why didn't Firaxis just program it so that a warrior does not win against a tank? DON'T USE PROBABILITY, I'd swear, but I stopped doing that a while ago.

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Old October 30, 2001, 03:31   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py


SHEEEEEESH!!!!!! IT'S SIMPLE!!!! Why didn't Firaxis just program it so that a warrior does not win against a tank? DON'T USE PROBABILITY, I'd swear, but I stopped doing that a while ago.

Exactly. This is a huge disappointment to me. I'll place my faith now in the mod community. Why, oh why, didn't Firaxis use Apolytoners to test?
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:37   #20
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IGN said that the ancient beating modern was very rare. Which one is right? Who knows... have to wait.
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Old October 30, 2001, 03:45   #21
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Let's face it: every game ever made has any number of things about it that could be complained about and criticized...the only time that we really start tearing down a game is when we come to the conclusion that the positives do not outweigh the negatives.
The bottom line is that each of these reviewers have said that, in the end, Civ3 is well worth playing, has a high degree of replayibility, and is a great deal of fun, and in the end (after all, we are talking about a game, here), fun is the only thing that really matters in the end!
Plus, let's remember that Civ3, in a manner similar to its predecessors, is almost endlessly customizable, which means that if you don't like a feature, change it, improve it, or delete it! There was a lot about SMAC that I didn't like when I first got it, but by the time I got finished customizing its options, using its editor, and hacking its files, I was able to custom-tailor it into a game that I loved in virtually every respect, which is one of the greatest strengths of this type of game...
Of course, I haven't played Civ3 yet, and it's possible that it is a truly awful piece of software, but judging from the overwhelmingly positive conclusions of the 2 online reviews that we've seen so far, the positives may very well outweigh the negatives by a significant margin.
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Old October 30, 2001, 04:21   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py


SHEEEEEESH!!!!!! IT'S SIMPLE!!!! Why didn't Firaxis just program it so that a warrior does not win against a tank? DON'T USE PROBABILITY, I'd swear, but I stopped doing that a while ago.

hm lets see
soviets sent tanks and mech infantry to afghanistan. they got slaughtered. well, i do believe there IS a probability that an 'ancient' (partisan-like and stripped down of arms) unit can kill a modern one. if tanks would win every time, the strongest civ would just roll over.....
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Old October 30, 2001, 04:27   #23
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yin: I agree, that review doesn't fill me with tons of hope, but on the bright side, there's the eminent possibility he doesn't know what he's talking about. This reviewer is apperantly being challenged on merely Prince difficulty level, so I can pretty well ignore all comments on diplomacy and effectiveness of the AI. Also, the review was a bit rough around the edges (Reagent difficulty? Fun chemistry, there...), so we can only hope.

As for modern vs. ancient: this was never a problem in Civ2. HP and Firepower insured that musketeers unholily wiped out veteran pikemen. Now HP is far less important, and there is no such thing as firepower. OF COURSE the problem is going to come back, duh. Better than CivI with only 1 HP per unit, of course, but it'll still be there.

LaRusso: The Afghans were armed with far better than pikes (maybe they'd count as Alpine Infantry) and had massive defense bonuses from the mountains (+200%). Of course they slaughtered the Russkies.
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Old October 30, 2001, 04:36   #24
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Quote:
so I can pretty well ignore all comments on diplomacy and effectiveness of the AI.
Well, there is always the chance the reviewer is incompetent, yes.
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Old October 30, 2001, 04:57   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SnowFire
LaRusso: The Afghans were armed with far better than pikes (maybe they'd count as Alpine Infantry) and had massive defense bonuses from the mountains (+200%). Of course they slaughtered the Russkies.
hum
i am not sure what to compare them with.
they did have rifles, but that's it. to arm them costed as much as to arm them with crossbows. plus, as i understand from this case, they killed the driver and burned the truck that transported nuke
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joseph 1944: LaRusso if you can remember past yesterday I never post a responce to one of your statement. I read most of your post with amusement however.
You are so anti-america that having a conversation with you would be poinless. You may or maynot feel you are an enemy of the United States, I don't care either way. However if I still worked for the Goverment I would turn over your e-mail address to my bosses and what ever happen, happens.
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Old October 30, 2001, 05:05   #26
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this is a 4000 word preview that actually contains new information and it seems like this guy played the game (wow gamespy what a concept! you should try it out some time!) the best of the reviews we've seen so far
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Old October 30, 2001, 05:11   #27
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To me it looks like the reviewer is either unprofessional or incompetent (or both!). A lot of references he made to "civ 2" should have been references to SMAC. I havent played the game, but it also appears as though the reviewer missed the point of war weariness, corruption and the different types of governments.

Before you all go and flame the game on one reviewer's comments, perhaps you should wait and see.
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Old October 30, 2001, 05:18   #28
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fanatic civver

i disagree with you

this is civ3 and not smac 2, many people didn't like smac as much as they liked civ2, and out of all of the reviews i read, this guy is the most fair, most professional, and most competant of all of the reviewers...although the review wasn't perfect it was better than the two others, and i think it gives the borderline player a decent gauge of the real game
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Old October 30, 2001, 05:23   #29
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Korn, you misunderstood.

He meant that the references he attributed to Civ2, actually were from SMAC (and didn't exist in Civ2).
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Old October 30, 2001, 05:27   #30
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oh ok gotcha!
i've been up for about 20 hours now and i am finally feeling some sleepdep (sleep deprevation for you non insomniac types)
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