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Old October 31, 2001, 04:09   #1
Akaoz
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Thoughts on Corruption?
Has anybody come up with a way to effectively deal with corruption on a huge map?

-Alech
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Old October 31, 2001, 21:19   #2
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Re: Thoughts on Corruption?
Quote:
Originally posted by Akaoz
Has anybody come up with a way to effectively deal with corruption on a huge map?

-Alech
not anything besides making sure you place the forbidden palace in the best possible spot.
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Old October 31, 2001, 21:57   #3
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Just build Courthouses in the cities furthest from your capital, and move to Monarchy or even better Republic as fast as possible.

Even under the better governments and with Courthouses, I still have some corruption. I haven't build the Forbidden Palace yet. It's tricky, because the place you want to build it probably has the worst corruption, and thus low production. I wish I could get a Great Leader because then I would use the Leader to rush build it, but so far no luck procuring a Leader.
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Old November 1, 2001, 01:06   #4
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had kublai khan once.

the army thing is great as the numbers add up when you attack.
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Old November 1, 2001, 10:47   #5
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Re: Thoughts on Corruption?
Quote:
Originally posted by Akaoz
Has anybody come up with a way to effectively deal with corruption on a huge map?

-Alech
No. And it is totally ruining the gameplaying experience. Why bother founding a new city when it can't produce anything?
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Old November 1, 2001, 11:14   #6
LarryM
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Commerce.
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Old November 1, 2001, 11:20   #7
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I have an thought. Maybe corruption depend from NUMER of cities and not only distance. So many players are trying to build as many cities as possibile wich, maybe, increases corrupion is other cities.

Anyway if corrupion is to high is some area, don't build other cities nearby, there is no point.

And I am not sure, what is an effect of Corthouse, exactly?
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Old November 1, 2001, 11:29   #8
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Supposedly a courthouse helps to alleviate corruption.

I had a city producing 7 shields, all but 1 lost to corruption. Ordered a courthouse be built, waited a really really long time for construction to complete, gained 1 more shield *sigh*.
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Old November 1, 2001, 11:42   #9
Ray K
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryM
Commerce.
Yes, I will build a commercial center with no granaries, libraries, marketplaces, temples, barracks or harbors.

My defensive units will be transported from my cities surrounding my capital.

Exactly how is this like the computer game we used to know as "Civilization?"

Question: have you played Civ3 yet? If so, how did you get around this problem?
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Old November 1, 2001, 12:23   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryM
Commerce.
I'm not sure what you're pointing to when you say simply "Commerce."

Are you referring to the fact that Commercial civs have less corruption, or are you saying that even if you lose shields to corruption, you are gaining commerce?

If you are saying the latter, then I'd point out that you seem to lose approximately the same percentage of the gold produced by commerce as you lose shields in production, so in building cities for commerce, the same problem applies.

If you're saying the former, then I agree with you. But I don't think I want to have to play a commercial civ just to beat the corruption problem. There HAS to be another way I just haven't found yet.
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Old November 1, 2001, 13:05   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jared
Supposedly a courthouse helps to alleviate corruption.

I had a city producing 7 shields, all but 1 lost to corruption. Ordered a courthouse be built, waited a really really long time for construction to complete, gained 1 more shield *sigh*.
But how? What exactly CIVILOPEDIA says about corthouse (you know I don't have the game yet)
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Old November 1, 2001, 13:59   #12
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Bottom line is there is no easy way around Corruption in Civ3. The single best thing you can do is get out of Despotism as quickly as possible. Courthouses help somewhat, but not as much as changing government.

Arranging your initial expansion cities in a ring around your capital will help. Corruption is directly related to distance from capital. So the cities that are adjacent to your capital will be much better off than those which are 2 cities away from the capital.

In my game, I'm running Republic, and I have Courthouses in all the cities that are more than 1 city away from the capital. I have about 600 total commerce, and I am losing about 100 to corruption. It's also about the same percentage (1 out of 6) shields lost. It's bad, but it's not terrible. Most of the corruption comes from the outlying cities - the ones next to my capital now are only losing a couple shields/commerce per turn. I'm working on the Forbidden Palace in one of my outlying cities - hopefully that will help quite a bit as well.
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Old November 1, 2001, 14:37   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by albiedamned
In my game, I'm running Republic, and I have Courthouses in all the cities that are more than 1 city away from the capital. I have about 600 total commerce, and I am losing about 100 to corruption. It's also about the same percentage (1 out of 6) shields lost. It's bad, but it's not terrible.
On what map size do you play, and how many cities do you have? (I´m asking because some other people claim that corruption and waste are unmanageable.)
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Old November 1, 2001, 15:41   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by lockstep


On what map size do you play, and how many cities do you have? (I´m asking because some other people claim that corruption and waste are unmanageable.)
Yes, apparently it scales with the map size.

In other words, the corruption distance might be measured as a percentage of the map size rather than a raw number of tiles. So while someone could set up 20 cities on a medium/large map with little corruption, I'm getting hammered by it with just 6-7 cities on a Tiny maps.

I chase directly to the Republic do all of the trade. I'll build temples a little earlier, but I can't see how that will help much. Courthouses don't make much of a dent at all.
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Old November 1, 2001, 15:55   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by lockstep


On what map size do you play, and how many cities do you have? (I´m asking because some other people claim that corruption and waste are unmanageable.)
I'm on a standard size map, 8 civs (the default settings). I'm playing on Warlord (level 2). Now I have about 15 cities. But during my initial expansion I only built 5 or 6. The rest I've either conquered or assimilated. The conquered ones had bad corruption for a while, but it eased up over time (as my nearby original cities expanded their influence). The assimilated cities never had much of a corruption problem to begin with.
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Old November 1, 2001, 17:07   #16
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I think this ought to be the final word on the subject, since Soren was the one that wrote the AI....

Quote:
Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


The way corruption works is one of the biggest changes from Civ2, so I am not surprised that people are having difficulties adjusting. Under this new system, you _cannot_ control ever city in the world and expect them to still function. Thus, it takes a slightly different approach than Civ2 (or Civ1 or SMAC) required. Simply put, more cities is not always better.

There are two factors affecting corruption levels: distance from capitol (like Civ2) and number of cities (unlike Civ2).

You can fight the distance factor by:

- moving your capitol to a more optimal location
- building a Courthouse in the city
- building a Forbidden Palace near your corrupt cities
- switching to a less-corrupt government type
- being connected to your capitol via road/harbor/airport
- putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)

You can fight the number of cities factor by:

- lowering the difficulty level
- building a Courthouse in the city
- building a Forbidden Palace in any city
- playing a civilization with the Commercial bonus
- switching to a less-corrupt government type
- putting your city in "We Love the King Day" (works for shields only...)

and finally...

- emphasize building a few great cities instead of a bunch of puny ones

and also...

- think about razing cities when you capture them (although be careful... you might create an enemy for the rest of the game...)

Hope that helps.
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Old November 1, 2001, 17:55   #17
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Well, everyone was wondering how ICS was going to be stopped

In any event, remember that courthouses reduce curroption by half (I think it's half), which means that even a totally curropt city can still produce half of what it's supposed to.

Corruption does suck, and it seems to be the nature of the land grab that making a few quality cities is not always the best stratedgy.

Look at some of the screenshots of games Firaxis has played. Their civilizations tend to be concentrated and small, co-exisiting with neighbors. I'm guessing they did it that way because of corruption.

I'm playing Chieftan, and have a sprawling contient of city and I'm planning to win Culture victory (I already have 50,000 cp). In the Democracy the curroption hurts, but not too bad and the court houses help a lot.

Corruption may suck, but recognize it as a logical detriment to over-expansion. Maybe we need to figure out the critical mass of "expansionist" civs Vs. regular ones.

Hope this helps.
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Old November 1, 2001, 18:12   #18
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Burn them to the Ground!
Day 2 of Civ3 finds this new player slightly less disoriented but with lots of additional questions. Corruption is certainly issue #1!

A new game started at lunch pursues a different pathway than the highly corrupt game one that was abandoned (it was too much like the conquer and move on games of old). In this new games, if a captured city is not in an optimal position, it is *razed* instead of given a governor. The number of cities is a critical factor in the corruption equation so it seems logical the you better make the ones you have/keep exceptional. The fact that city razing is an option in Civ3 leads me to believe that you *should* raze certain cities instead of occupying them. So far, this has apparantly helped a little bit since unproductive cities don't appear to drag down the entire civ. It certainly takes some getting used to!

Also, does anyone who has advanced later in the game have a list of the government types that allow rushbuying? Apparantly, you can't rushbuy anything in Despotism which shuts down one way I always got a head start on the AI. After one hour at lunch, I'm still slow to Monarchy (just got Polytheism) but I'm using the superior firepower of vet Archers on solid terrain to lay waste to the pathetic Indians. Delhi is now mine and Civ3 get a thumbs up from me until I encounter some more significant issues later on....
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Old November 1, 2001, 18:34   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jared


I'm not sure what you're pointing to when you say simply "Commerce."

Are you referring to the fact that Commercial civs have less corruption, or are you saying that even if you lose shields to corruption, you are gaining commerce?

If you are saying the latter, then I'd point out that you seem to lose approximately the same percentage of the gold produced by commerce as you lose shields in production, so in building cities for commerce, the same problem applies.

If you're saying the former, then I agree with you. But I don't think I want to have to play a commercial civ just to beat the corruption problem. There HAS to be another way I just haven't found yet.
I meant the former. And yes, you are right, I don't want to be limited to commercial civs either.

I applaud the purpose behind the increased corruption - make it hard to conquer the world - but I think they went too far. I expect/ hope that corruption will be toned down a bit in a patch. If not, I guess some editing of the corruption levels in the various governments will be in order.
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Old November 1, 2001, 19:43   #20
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Always ask yourself whether you need a city or whether a colony will do. Don't build/conquer cities far from home just to get resources.
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Old November 1, 2001, 21:34   #21
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Monarchy, Democracy and Republic allow the use of gold to finish city improvements and units.
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Old November 2, 2001, 13:07   #22
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I actually like the corruption factor, it's realistic. The largest empire in ancient times would have to have been the Romans, and they faced unending problems with corruption. And heres the bite, they weren't ALL that large.

It makes it tough early on, but it seems the best plan is to start between 10 and 20 cities as fast as you can and then build them up, later on you can look at expanding either by settlers or conquest.

Good job!
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