The Bisquit Tin Coalition - the campaign for Civ III LE

Rasbelin · October 31, 2001, 12:48

First of all I want to make clear that I think
as many apolytoners as possible should
join this coalition for a worldwide shipment
on the Civ III Limited Edition. This means
that even newbies/settlers should be
brave and type away. No-one will excute
you for that. That's a promise.

The name of this campaign will be
"The Biscuit Tin Coalition".
What a clever name!

I think we must gather an alliance for
lifting the current restriction on supplying
non-US customers with the Civ III LE.
For more on my views and opinions, please
read the email message further down on the page.

What can each of us do?

- join "The Biscuit Tin Coalition"
- discuss about this subject on Civ III forums
on civ fansites like Apolyton CS and Civ Fanatics
- make inquiries at the forums of Infogrames
- contact Infogrames by email

Those who don't want to take part in the
more "active" action, can always give their
moral support at Ape's forums.
What have I, Rasbelin, already done?

I have just sent this inquiry to the sales
department of Infogrames:

Civ III LE not worldwide - why not?

Hi!

I'm writing on this subject, because Infogrames has
suddenly decided to let only American customers get the
opportunity to buy a copy of the Civ III Limited Edition.
Civilization fans outside the US are not able to get
the LE, nor at the local stores nor from webshops
in US. The question on many non-American customers'
lips is "why?". So I ask you at the sales department of
Infogrames US, why won't you let thousands of
fans outside the States share the joy of the LE?

As far as I know, the potential customer amount
for PC strategy games is much larger outside US.
Infogrames could make a fortune with the LE
just in Europe; not to mention the Asian market,
probably many thousand copies in the EU zone.
But you just apparently ignore us!
The American economy is going down and so is
the local confidence of the American consumers.
Wouldn't it then be much more lucrative to try
to get every single penny collected?

Many of the "true" Civilization fans have been waiting
for the release for years. But what happens just before
release? Surprise, surprise! Infogrames thinks that
some American kids deserves more than the
"civers" living in United Kingdom, Germany,
France, South Korea, Japan, Finland, Sweden, Norway,
Denmark; the list is long as Santa Claus' beard.
Is this what the gaming industry calls "listening to the
players"? Apparently it's true in your case.

This act of yours doesn't help you in anyway.
It actually increases piracy of Civ III; and this is true.
Those who don't get their LE, will likely get an illegal
copy from a black marketer.

Until this day I have suffered a financial loss on 72.97$ plus
the handling charge of a SWIFT cheque, that I have sent
to an American webstore as my payment for the Civ III LE.
This was done according to the guidelines of the store,
Amazon.com, and the agreed payment method was cheque.
Today I received an email from Amazon.com that
they can't ship a copy of the LE, because you, Infogrames,
had suddenly set this shipment limitation. Because I had
sent the SWIFT cheque already days before the release
day (30th October), I couldn't know that my cheque
would be sent in vain. That 72.97$ plus handling has
already been charged from my personal bank account,
so I have lost the money. Amazon.com suggested that
I could spend that amount of cash on something else
at their shop or then they could return it.
But I don't want to buy anything else. Even if they would
return the SWIFT cheque, I would still loose the handling
charge plus I would have to pay a refunding charge.
Not to mention that the cheque would arrive after Christmas,
or even later. So until that I would be almost 80$ poorer.
But who has caused me all this trouble? Amazon.com?
No, because they have not made the decision to
have such kind of ban. The one behind this is Infogrames.

I want an explanation to the current ban on worldwide
distribution. And I think I have the fullest right to get one.
If you for some reason wouldn't want to co-operate,
I can tell you that I will not give up.

Sincerly,
Rasmus Anderssén, Finland

Earthling7 · October 31, 2001, 13:07

Good one. Looking forward to reading their reply.

I am waiting to see what happens to my Tin Can. If I get a no, I shall not be pleased.

hetairoi22 · October 31, 2001, 13:36

*Maybe* (

) they will send it to people who ordered the LE before they knew it wouldn't ship to their country?

It would be treason not to. *Really*.

They can't just make a lot of people order it and then just say: "Sorry, we though you wouldn't bother to order anyway".

Or could they?

Rasbelin · October 31, 2001, 13:49

Thanks Earthling7 and hetairoi22 for your
views! It's important that as many as possible
would join this movement. BTW, please report
here, if you contact Infogrames. All replies
from them are welcome!

Especially asking them questions is a good
way to get something done.

rdomarat · October 31, 2001, 13:56

Just FYI, all the posts talking about not shipping the LE outside of the USA aren't exactly accurate. I live in Canada and purchased the LE at my local computer store. It would be more accurate to complain that the LE is not shipping outside of North America.

Rasbelin · October 31, 2001, 13:56

BTW, you can support the Biscuit Tin Coalition
also by supporting it in your ACS signature.

Examples:

Infogrames, I want my Limited Edition!

I'm a proud supporter of the Biscuit Tin Coalition,
and I think you should also join it.

BTE for everyone!

We want the LE, no matter were we live!

Rasbelin · October 31, 2001, 14:01

Quote:

Originally posted by rdomarat

It would be more accurate to complain that the LE is not shipping outside of North America.

You're right. So the campaign will from now on rally for
a release of the LE outside North America (US & Canada).

Rege · October 31, 2001, 14:37

I was really mad with infogrames when I heard that they wouldn't ship worldwide( The BTE or LE if U prefer).

I tried Amazon - doesn't ship to Portugal

EB games - wanted a conf E-mail- send it but they cancelled the order.

Gamestop- didn't deduct money from my account but apparentely shipped it already.

Of course I paid ( Or I will pay) 89 dollars for it - and I will surely pay an extra 20 or 30 at our "beloved" customs.
All because I do not know the date of arrival and "if" it will arrive.

So I'm with U.

Sarcastro · October 31, 2001, 16:16

Quote:

The American economy is going down and so is
the local confidence of the American consumers.

Sorry, but that's crap. $50 is not that much, and economic conditions are not bad enough to make American game fanatics shy away from buying this game. Heck, people looking forward to this game will save up for it, not decide not to buy it. That's a pretty weak part of your argument.

(As an aside, don't start thinking that your economy isn't affected by ours - if conditions get so bad that people can't afford to buy a computer game, you'd notice it in your country too. I'd go more into the effects of globalization on widely disparate economies, but this isn't really the place.)

That said, I agree with you all that it's odd that the "limited edition" isn't going to anywhere outside North America. On the one hand, that does make it more limited.

On the other hand, it is strange that they're not doing it at all, since there seems to be plenty of demand for it.

One possibility: The LE probably costs more to make than the regular edition, and so even with the increased price, they might more per unit on the regular edition than on the LE, so they actually want more people to buy the regular one.

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 02:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarcastro

Sorry, but that's crap. $50 is not that much, and economic conditions are not bad enough to make American game fanatics shy away from buying this game. Heck, people looking forward to this game will save up for it, not decide not to buy it. That's a pretty weak part of your argument.

I know that, but the mass might get affected.
I'm currently speaking of the American civ fanatics,
but more of those 7-10 year old kids, who say their
parents: "Dad, could you buy me that funny looking game?"
It's true that it might be a weak point, if we consider
the real fans of the game, but for the large audience
it might even matter.

Quote:

That said, I agree with you all that it's odd that the "limited edition" isn't going to anywhere outside North America. On the one hand, that does make it more limited.

Perhaps that's why they call it Limited Edition,
even though I think Collector's Edition would have
been better.

Quote:

On the other hand, it is strange that they're not doing it at all, since there seems to be plenty of demand for it.

True. Why wouldn't a company listed on the NYSE
wan't to make maximum profits? Isn't that one
of the basics in our economy, the capitalistic one?

Quote:

One possibility: The LE probably costs more to make than the regular edition, and so even with the increased price, they might more per unit on the regular edition than on the LE, so they actually want more people to buy the regular one.

Good point, but shouldn't that extra 20$ cover the
costs? That tin can't cost more than 50 cents to manufacture,
that extra paperback could cost 5$ and making that
video is cheap; not to mention the techtree.
So the average costs are 7$ for the LE, plus the
costs of the standard Civ III distribution.
Wouldn't that make about 10$ in extra profit?
Of course it's less than that, probably just 7-8$,
but isn't that still profit?

20 000 x 7 = 140 000

If they sell 20 000 copies outside US-Canada,
it would give them a boost of 140 000$ in
earnings. And they would probably sell over 40 000
LE's outside the US-Canada zone, if they just wanted
to do so.

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 02:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Rege

So I'm with U.

Good to see more supporters.

It would really help the goals of
this campaign, if others would also
email Infogrames. BTW, I can't follow
the Infogrames Community forum
for the moment (=lack of time), so I think
someone could volunteer and try to
monitor it and take part in the
discussion over there too.

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 03:04

I have just started a thread at the Infogrames
Community forums called Give your suppport for a worldwide Civ III Limited Edition release!.

kittenOFchaos · November 1, 2001, 03:25

As the first to name it a biscuit tin (check those forums!) AND as one of those screwed by amazon/infograms/firaxis (THOSE WORLD MAPS AND NO FIXED CIV STARTED POSITION SO GERMANY IN GERMANY ETC!) I will join this crusade!

kittenOFchaos · November 1, 2001, 03:36

It looks like amazon are going to ship to me in the UK after all...my status is shipping soon!

Adagio · November 1, 2001, 07:19

I'm fully with you...

I wont buy the LE version anyway, but I will try to fight for the right for the rest of the world to be able to buy the LE version.

LE version for everyone

Earthling7 · November 1, 2001, 08:36

This is my status at Amazon:

Shipping Soon: We are preparing these items for shipment and can no longer change shipping and billing options for them.

We shall see.

MisterMuppet · November 1, 2001, 09:23

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG

LE version for everyone

So what you are suggesting is an unlimited limited edition.

Adagio · November 1, 2001, 09:38

Quote:

Originally posted by MisterMuppet
So what you are suggesting is an unlimited limited edition.

Yeah, and ULE version could be great

No really, just make us atleast have the chance to get the LE version (that other one could have been great though

)

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 11:21

Quote:

Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
It looks like amazon are going to ship to me in the UK after all...my status is shipping soon!

I have almost the same situation, but the
order info says it's hasn't been shipped yet.
Let's hope that Amazon.com tells us something
on the current ban.

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 12:18

Okay, time for a briefing.

First of all no-one has still wanted to
take part in the campaign in a more active
way. At least there has been no questions
on what kind of help could be given, neither
has anyone reported on mailings to Infogrames.
So am I the only one who's active?

Then a good news. I received this email
from Amazon.com today:

Greetings from Amazon.com!

Just a note to let you know that we received your check(s) today. We will begin processing your order immediately. On the date of shipment, you should receive an e-mail message confirming the date, method, and contents of your shipment.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions, and thanks for shopping at Amazon.com!

Best regards,
Customer Service
Amazon.com

So it looks like something might happen, but it's
still unknown, because the item page still hasn't been
changed.

The third announcement is that I have recently
sent a request for information about international
LE shipments to Amazon.com. I'll post their reply here,
as soon as I get. Until that I suggest that you read
the mailing.

Hi!

I have received an e-mail message stating that my payment of the order has been received and accepted by you. But the problem is that I don't know if you will ship me the PC game that I have ordered, because there's a remark at the item page of Civ III LE; the game will only be shipped inside US. If I have done and paid my order with a SWIFT cheque before you set that limitation on the shipment conditions. Does this mean that I will not receive my order, even if I have already paid for it? Or are you going to ship the game to everyone who has preordered the game before the change was made, and that have already paid for they order? Or are you going to do an exceptation with me, and ship the Civ III LE to me, because you have already received my SWIFT cheque, and let the others who have choosed credit card as their payment not get their copy? I'm asking this also at the behalf of "The Bisquit Tin Coalition", the campaign for a worldwide release and shipment right to non US customers to get their Civ III LE. For more information on the campaign, please visit www.the-bisquit-tin-coalition.cjb.net. I would also like to know if Infogrames, the distributor of Civ III, has set this limitation or is it one set by you, Amazon.com?

Thanks for the information in advance!
Rasmus Anderssén, The Bisquit Tin Coalition

Hopefully Amazon.com wil reveal the reason for
this ban and who's behind it. Until that I suggest
that someone would send a new inquiry to Infogrames.

Now let's just hope it's true that this ban might
be just temporary. At least the information at EBgames.com
gives that kind of hint.

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 12:57

Message removed. Reason: double posting. Sorry!

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by ADG
I'm fully with you...

Thanks! Could you perhaps anticipate in
active volunteer work?

Quote:

I wont buy the LE version anyway, but I will try to fight for the right for the rest of the world to be able to buy the LE version.

Good to see that there's someone out there
willing to help others to get a BTE. That's a
very polite attitude (IMHO)!

Rasbelin · November 1, 2001, 13:06

Quote:

Originally posted by MisterMuppet

So what you are suggesting is an unlimited limited edition.

I think a better name for it would perhaps
be Civ III Collector's Edition. It sounds better and
more luxurious and not so discriminating than
Limited Edition. And it ads a special "touch".
The BTE's tin looks quite nice, so the name
Collector's Edition would just favour it.

Earthling7 · November 1, 2001, 13:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Rasbelin
First of all no-one has still wanted to
take part in the campaign in a more active
way.

I'm waiting to see what happens. I don't feel like bombing everyone if we're all getting it anyway. My order is still pending, saying that it's being prepaired for shipping. More people have reported the same and now you may get it.

The moment they cancel it, they will feel my wrath!

Siberian Hamster · November 2, 2001, 04:49

While I fully understand why you're so annoyed about not having access to the LE, I have to say that I'm not convinced it's worth spending the extra cash on it.

So it comes in a tin instead of a box - big deal! And from the sounds of it, the tech tree is just some screenshots cheaply laminated, which I can do myself if I feel like it.

I hope you manage to get it if it's what you really want, but I know where my money's staying!

Rasbelin · November 2, 2001, 10:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Earthling7

I don't feel like bombing everyone if we're all getting it anyway.

And that's not even the meaning of this campaign.

Quote:

More people have reported the same and now you may get it.

I can't still be so optimistic, because Amazon.com
is just moving the arrival dates of my BTE.
Yesterday it was 7.-15.11, now it's 8.-16.11.
Hopefully we get an explanation to this.
But even if some customers outside US-Canada
would get their orders, that doesn't still change
the situation, because the hidden ban is still
there, and lifting that ban is the goal of this campaign
(see my first posting).

Quote:

The moment they cancel it, they will feel my wrath!

I see.

faded glory · November 2, 2001, 12:18

Sorry Euro's

Most of the money to be made by IG will be made in the good ole US of A!!

If you dont like it TS

You will have to order it from our people

Oh yes! There are way more fanatic civers in America. Not 7-10 years kids who just buy it cause the cover looks cool

(Oh yes just for that derogatory comment I hope it never ships over seas to whatever 3rd world nation you live in)

usa ! USA!! USA !!!

dasaecorvic · November 2, 2001, 13:06

What the heck....!!!!!

LIMITED EDITION FOR EVERYBODY!!!!!

Kautilya · November 2, 2001, 13:23

The absense of LE is really not worth bothering about.

As I have noted elsewhere the contents of the LE are completely useless. Not even worth one dollar combined.

The tin is OK but not worth 10-15 dollars to me. I guess for some people it is. But be sure to realize that it is the only thing you will be getting.

Even I thought the tin was worth the price I still wouldn't buy LE because of the attitude it reveals from Infrogames/Firaxis when they produce such shoddy stuff inside.

Deathray · November 2, 2001, 13:23

Quote:

Originally posted by faded glory
Sorry Euro's

Most of the money to be made by IG will be made in the good ole US of A!!

If you dont like it TS

You will have to order it from our people

Oh yes! There are way more fanatic civers in America. Not 7-10 years kids who just buy it cause the cover looks cool

(Oh yes just for that derogatory comment I hope it never ships over seas to whatever 3rd world nation you live in)

usa ! USA!! USA !!!

Ok, you are misinformed/mistaken about some of that.
The European games market is now quite a bit larger than the US market, and the Asian games market is quite large as well (although there is quite a lot of piracy in some parts of Asia).

We don't like it. Its not TS. We're going to do something about it.

He wasn't saying that there weren't fanatic civers in America, he was saying that the majority of buyers would be kids (who would be more likely to not buy it due to the recession), rather than hardcore fans (I personally dislike this distinction, I have been a fairly hardcore Civ fan since I first played Civ 2 when I was 10, children can be very hardcore about their games).

The UK is not a 3rd world nation.

Overpatriotism sucks. Just because you are born in a country doesn't make you superior/more deserving.