help a newbie out

[Caedfel]

I'm new to alpha centauri and smacx. So far its been fun just building stuff and fooling around, but whenever I get into a large game, the game disintegrates into a boring click-fest full of repetitive clicking and command giving. I seem to fall into a funk; micromanaging every former, base, unit, etc.

What I need is help streamlining the whole game-play process. anything you wish you knew when you were just starting out that makes life easier? I'm talking about everything from general preference settings in the game menu (or cfg, ini, file whatever) to quick commands; anything that reduces the need to click through countless windows.

[yavoon]

I'd play smaller maps, nething u do to automate will make ur game turn out worse(from a strategic standpoint). but ur welcome to do that to.

as u get better u'll see deeper into the decisions u make and it'll beccome more important to think about things.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Automating units is always amusing; they do the damndest things.

[knowhow2]

just produce combat units and invade....... whenever you conquer a base just eradicated it.

[Kassiopeia]

Obviously you are a newbie - you aren't micromanagementholic. I for one just love to manage all my little aspects of gameplay.

If you use governors, and when/possibly you find them useless, a helpful remedy is build ques. Stack up a lot of facilities and voila.

Also, learning out the hotkeys is vital - that requires hours of gameplay, which should not be a problem

Automated formers are nice, but they never seem to want to do the improvements you want. AFAIK forests, for instance, are rarely planted by formers themselves. Auto-patrol, now that is another matter. Tried that once

As you can see, there are two ways, the long time-consuming and the short quick one.
The AC AI considering automated governors and units seems to me to be quite ridiculous, so I really can't recommend them.

[Kirnwaffen]

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot you can do to alleviate micromanagement. Though automation is an option, it has been proven to be highly unreliable, and can cost you the game if you leave it unsupervised (which sort of defeats the purpose. Here's what I would recommend:

1. Que, que, que. This is the most effective way to reduce your micromanaging. Just stack up a bunch of items, and it will tell you when it's finished.*You can also save a specific build que as a sort of template (sorry, can't remember how) so that all you have to do is load it into another base que.

2. Build units en masse, or make sure a facility is qued after units. In this way, you prevent yourself from having to watch production too closely.

3. Put large groups of units that you are not using on hold rather than load\sentry. This ensures that they will not "wake" when a neutral unit nears.

4. Build generic units only, then upgrade them to include specialties. It will save you time in making ques and supervising production.

5. Learn to love micromanaging if you're going to get into multiplayer. The really good players (of which I am not one) are really good in part due to their attention to detail.

Anyway, hope this stuff works. (Does for me anyway).

K

*Due to a certain bug, leaving items in the que until it runs out has, IIRC, been deemed a cheat. Don't do this in multiplayer, or, check with the other players before you do. Otherwise, don't get caught.

[Lucy In The Sky]

Don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise: the game is just a spreadsheet. If you're not anal & obsessive, you aint gonna like these kinds of games. MOO, but I work w/spreadsheets all day long & that's just the way I see it. Look thru the threads & you'll quickly realize that a rather highly (player) refined calculus is (no pun intended) par for the course in many of the discussions around here. I think the general consensus would be that, esp if you're going to play as a builder, ya just gotta micromanage. Activate the gov's & you're just along for the(ir) ride. Else, as kh2 said. "just produce combat units and invade" (momentum style), which may suit you better. GL & enjoy. These games seem always to surprise.

[yavoon]

really lucy? I never think about the game mathematically. in this way I kind of cheat though. I realize that you can perform better if u are working #'s and stuff. so I rely on other ppl's #'s to then let me play the game qualitatively. as I imagine lotsa non-insane ppl do. u just learn wut u wna do when, w/o busting out opportunity cost diagrams.

perhaps I should read the long #'s threads more closely, cuz I'm 3rd year calc and I didn't notice any calculus in them.

[Kirnwaffen]

Just remembered one last thing:

If you aren't playing for any insane goals (no offense to anyone here), you don't have to micromanage your citizens. Set the gov so that it only takes care of them. Just be sure that you do it before you turn it on, otherwise you might lose some mins.

[Caedfel]

thx for the tips. I dont really mind micromanaging that much, it's fun to an extent. I finally realized, after getting into another large game, that the pace of the game slows down because there are just more things to move, both on the computer and player side. I rather like the fast pace of early development, where turns dont last that long; where it's easier to see my strategies and actions commence quickly, and there isnt that long pause while the ai moves.

I'm getting used to the slower pace in the larger games tho, and all I need to do now is formulate a strategy for victory - which is really hard for me because I dont really know how to transcend all that well, have no idea how to win economically, and do not know how to utilize the special unit abilities at all for conquering. So later in the game I just get stuck heh I need help! Basically I can build myself up fairly well, can defend myself alright, but have trouble really making large effective moves toward winning: the result is a game that goes on forever.

also.. what do trancends, engineers, librarians, do exactly? and how do I effectively utilize them? ( I know doctors, empaths and trancends quell drones)

I got the "classic(cheap =)" edition of alpha centauri, which doesnt come with a printed manuel (prolly in the docs second of the disc tho). Alien crossfire on the other hand did, along with a nifty poster with all the tech and discoverys =)

I played an interesting game on talent difficulty tho, (edit normal size actually) of map of planet, I was roze (hackers who seems to get along with everyone in the expansion except the cult and the aliens). I landed close to dommi of the free drones and ended up in an interesting pact for the entire game. Because I know the drones have trouble researching, I made sure to give him all my research every turn, I also got him to be planetary governer. This strong alliance got me two things: free technology (every turn I could call him up and get free tech when he was a huge industrial pwoerhouse) and free high tech units (he ceded mostly shard interceptors, a tank, etc). I was also in pact with the cyborgs, tho they were very weak, but did manage to send a couple units my way =)

the disadvantage of pumping dommi up so strongly is that I had to contend with that nautilus guy, who HATES dommi with a passion, and continuously pesters me to break my pact and join up with him. The nautilus guy has very strong air power ( that haseasially killed many of my units when he randomly pronounces vendettas against me), as well as sea power, and at this point of the game (like 2400) had a gazillion sea bases. At this point I was hopelessly tangled up with dommi ( he basically had surrounded me with land and sea bases) that I could never break the pact (nor had any intention of doing so)

what I should have done is build a bunch of probe teams (tho can you outfit probe teams to do amphibious landings?) and transport ships and incited drone riots at his bases so that they would switch to dommi. Of course this wouldnt really work because the guy has a gazillion shard helicopters at ever base that would eat me alive.

I had already eradicated the caretakers (mostly killed off by the cult) and the cult. but i dont think it was because my my skill; for 100 years the cult sent up squads of r laser troops up to my bases (before I really got used to the patrol command), and I kept killing them with shard planes, so finally I just used amphibious marines and took them over.

I couldnt do that with the pirates, so I was basically stuck...

Biggest problems I had were getting the right units for the right job, and specializing my bases for certain things (like one for unit production, research, etc, which I did not really do since it seemed to me like every base needs them all ! heh) to get my war machine going.

[knowhow2]

Ahh those Specialists! There are a thread somewhere that have a say or two about the Hive Specialist approach. basically specialist (except for docs & empaths) is great when you have lots of citizien but bad tech and/or research. So with specialist you can boost your research (each librarian gives you +3 in lab) or cash-inflow (each engineer gives + 3 in cash). You do know how the energy square thing works right? Just in case you don't know. For each energy you collect with a worked square you "spend" them in lab, cash or psych. if you're set at 100 % lab then ALL of your enegry goes to that if 50% then half goes there and half goes here. With specialist such as librarians you get + 3 right away from one citizien to lab (while the same citizien working a forrest square get +1 nuts, +2 mins, +1 energy). This approach is especially good for Hive since they have -2 in economy (each base minus one energy) so with this appoach you get a great research or great cashflow.

-knowhow2

[knowhow2]

You wanna out-tech your enemies?

Put Merchant Exchange, The Supercollider and the The Theory of Evereything in the same base in which you have 50 or so crawlers collecting eneregy. That way ALL techs takes 2 turns to research.

[Kirnwaffen]

Looking to take out Sven? You need an exceptionally big navy, so remember the "shell units" thing (credit Vel for this). Build a bunch of gun cruisers and gun foils. Then, when you think that you have enough, upgrade them to whatever suits your need

[Caedfel]

... just realized that the manual is on the cd in pdf format, *starts to read* wish I had the printed version whaaa stupid "classic (cheap)" version. I spend enough time google-eyed at the computer as it is.

[civcop]

Okay, I read posts here about 50 crawlers, tech every 2 turns, having a science base, etc. and I get confused (though that comes naturally to me).

How do you select which base will work as a science base? And shouldn't it be one built pretty early in the game? Do I look for a base site with two energy resource squares within 2 squares? Do I simply build solar collectors all around it?

And if I spent the time to build 50 crawlers my base would get overrun. Typically, upon founding a base, I que up a scout patrol (or whatever is the cheapest, effective sentry unit at that time), a colony pod, another sentry, a former and usually rec commons. When I get worms I build one or two of those at the base too. Am I too security minded? It seems that if I don't have at least 2-3 effective (i.e. most modern, aside from mind worms) defensive units at each base I risk losing the base to an enemy. Plus, when attacked I end up having to build more units anyway. And it never fails that if I play as the University, or another non-military faction, I get the Hive on one side of me and the Believers on the other. I cannot avoid combat. My first contact with them (and the Spartans) finds them in a seething or obstinate mood, trying to extort me out of energy, tech or both. Or that 2-faced Lal is nearby and acts nice but then turns on me.

And as for tech every turn or two, the closest I've come to accomplishing that was with the University. I was getting a tech about every 4 turns, I think.

What am I doing wrong? I'd get slaughtered in an MP game!

[Caedfel]

it is inefficient to have every base get every base facility. For instance, why would you need to research airbase in a base that is usually researching secret progects and such? Also i think the more units you garrison, the more energy they expend just sitting there, tho I'm not exactly sure how that works, so the less you have garrisoned, the more efficient you are (so garrison like one unit in a base if it is in the middle of your empire for instance. Ideally you should have 1 or 2 bases specifically made for building units - constantly churning out the base versions (tip courtesy of Kirnwaffen of the chassis units for home defense at first, and then for specialization later on when you start to conquer. I'd have this base by the coast so you can build sea units as well. I'd also make a base specifically designed to make money - a cash cow, that's what the minerals to energy thing does, it lets you get energy out of the minerals the base is harvesting, but not using beause they arent optimized to produce units.

the only problem with this in multi-player especially I imagine, is that an opposing team can send in a probe squad, infiltrate your datalinks, and find which bases do what = dangerous information in the wrong hands.

There are so many things that I'm learning right now. Like the combat bonuses based on the terrain = advanced tactical opportunities - this game gets deeper and deeper every second

[Avenoct]

Great Newbie discussion, and don't be worried about being new... everyone here was at one point or another. Personally I did what you're doing...I asked a LOT of questions and thought hard about the answers....then one day I heard about this great thing and this great person. Who was that you ask? Why, Velociryx of course! So I found that by following a maddeningly long series of searches and links I could find theHoly of Holies, Velociryx's Strategy Guide, or the Bible of Smac . Everything changed from that day, and not all for the better! Vel's guide is so complete that if you truly digest it you skip over a large part of the learning curve and learn things you might not have ever discovered about TBS strategy.

O.k., that said, I really think that the questions asked in this thread are great. They are specific and clearly don't indicate that you just want to Win at ANY Cost which is tantamount to only wanting to do a crossword puzzle if you have the answer key. Bah!

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot you can do to alleviate micromanagement.

Um...Kirnwaffen, you spelled that incorrectly, that's "Fortunately"!

But seriously, micromanagement is a pain sometimes. I don't know that there is a solution, a meta-strategy of playing games with less micromanagement, because the games where every 'lab' and every mineral count are the most interesting, and they also encourage the most micromanagement. If you play far below your skill level (or have mastered the game), sure, it's less micromanagement, but it's less fun, and certainly less challenging.

Nonetheless, there are some things you can do. As Yavoon pointed out, playing on smaller maps alleviates the late game crunch. You'll find that a lot of us play on the biggest maps possible however, as big == more opportunities for strategy. Build Queues work like a charm and they certainly help. Conquest takes more micromanagement than building, counter-intuitively. As Kass mentions, learning the 'hot-keys' is invaluable, but learn at the pace that allows you to maintain focus on your game.

Listen to Kirnwaffen:

5. Learn to love micromanaging if you're going to get into multiplayer. The really good players (of which I am not one) are really good in part due to their attention to detail.

Think about it: If you want to go low-attention-span, high-adrenilin, play RTS games or FPS games (Real Time Strategy ===bah on them!, and First Person Shooters, the bane one strategists...o.k., I play them too... ) Now that you're back from you're adrenilin rush, how about a cappuccino and a smooth game of SMAC?

I finally realized, after getting into another large game, that the pace of the game slows down because there are just more things to move, both on the computer and player side.

True.

Now to the game:

and all I need to do now is formulate a strategy for victory

O.K., that's a problem I'm familiar with. You have to understand that Smac is raw competition. Imagine 7 people playing Sim City and whoever had the most money at the end of 3 hours got to live. If you let them, the AI will win the game. But what's more difficult is finding a way for YOU to win the game. It comes down to a race, like the Sim City example. If you don't accomplish one of the victories in X years, you lose the race. Granted, certain victories are harder than others, so its great fun to play the same faction from the same starting position and aim at each of the victories in turn. The order I reccomend you try is:

Conquest: Go out there and make every other faction pledge allegiance to you...no, you don't have to usually kill all of them, just keep your reputation noble (a long story) and take over factions one at a time, putting on the brakes when they say "O.K. Provost Cadfael, you're the man, I surrender, please don't spank me further, just let me be your slave". You are required to smile at this point and say "Got 'ya sucka" and move on to the next faction. You'll automatically win when all are destroyed or submissive to you.

Transcendence: Probably the easiest overall win, march through the tech-tree and build the Ascent to Transcendence (remember, someone needs to build the voice of planet first).

Diplomatic: Bah! It can be great fun if you get into the role-playing side of things...just try to elect yourself supreme leader every 20 years and you'll see how this goes...this is an easy win for anyone who knows ICS and/or pop-booming.

Economic: O.K. this one's tough, and that doesn't mean it's fun! You must buy out all the factions. How are you going to achieve that?

Now if you think about all these victories you'll see that your goal isn't to survive, it's to dominate the other factions in one way or the other. The first thing you should aim for is dominating in tech. If you can consistently stay ahead of the other factons you've mastered the game for that level. As a side effect, you'll win the game, whatever victory condidtion. Take a look at the nuts and bolts of the game and know that the two most powerful units in the game are
The Former and the Crawler The Former and the Crawler

O.K., nuff for now.

-S-

[knowhow2]

Originally posted by civcop
Okay, I read posts here about 50 crawlers, tech every 2 turns, having a science base, etc. and I get confused (though that comes naturally to me).

Well this one is actually for SP mostly and some raising for AtT MP games. I gather that AtT victories is somewhat rare in MP resolutions. But then again I haven't played long enough to win any games so I really don't know.

How do you select which base will work as a science base? And shouldn't it be one built pretty early in the game? Do I look for a base site with two energy resource squares within 2 squares? Do I simply build solar collectors all around it?

Science Base should be your HQ because of efficiency, either the HQ you have from the beginning or build the HQ to that Science City later on. If you build a Science City from the premisses of ME, SC & TE then you should make whatever city with the ME the science city and build the HQ there.

And if I spent the time to build 50 crawlers my base would get overrun.

Well you shouldn't start building a Science City until you are somewhat secured behind a wall of bases with the sool purpose of defending against invaders. Once that wal have been established - shouldn't need more than 2-3 bases in the early stages, 4-5 in the middle and 6-8 in the latter stages. The rest of the bases can be devoted into building crawlers for the science base. First each base builds enough crawlers for collection of mineral so that it can build One crawler each turn then devote them entirely to make crawlers for the science city. Shouldn't take more than 20-30 turns to make 50 crawlers for 10 or so bases.

And as for tech every turn or two, the closest I've come to accomplishing that was with the University. I was getting a tech about every 4 turns, I think.

Try the ME, SC & TE in the same base with lots of crawlers

hope that helped. - knowhow2