Multiplayer Add On In March 2002 !

Sunstone · November 7, 2001, 20:13

Maybe i should post it in the "availability"-Forum but I think its of MAJOR INTEREST :

In a german pcmag called "PC-Games" is a review of CIV 3. A really bad one (85%They are graphic-fetishists) BUT,
they announce on p. 114 that they called Infogrames to get info on the postponed german version and got this answer :

There will be a multiplayer add-on in march 2002. It will be released at the same time as the german version.

This is supposed to be an official statement by INFOGRAMES.

kimmygibler · November 7, 2001, 20:40

is it a free add-on or just a way for them to make money off a patch?

Sunstone · November 7, 2001, 20:44

The info is from INFOGRAMES (the publisher) so....

yea you will have to pay money for it.

Skanky Burns · November 7, 2001, 21:08

Weeeelll, i for one will NEVER pay for that. infogames has treated the Civ 3 fans with contempt from the start. Firstly, theres the different release dates around the world (im still waiting, and so are many others). Ok im willing to concede that maybe they cant afford to do a worldwide release...

But just take a look at what other people are saying about the contents of the LE. People are paying extra for a collectable item, but upon opening it, they find the cds in cardboard packaging

, a tiny tech-tree which is all but useless... and this is for the fans of the game who are giving infogames extra money.

I will buy Civ 3 once it comes out - infogames has me over a barrel on that one (cuz i really want Civ 3, and also want to support Firaxis), but i will really question ever buying an infogames game ever again. Or add-on.

Altuar · November 7, 2001, 21:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
I will buy Civ 3 once it comes out - infogames has me over a barrel on that one (cuz i really want Civ 3, and also want to support Firaxis), but i will really question ever buying an infogames game ever again. Or add-on.

Careful that the game wont make you eat your words. It's that addictive. You'll want to give your every penny to the next bum who claims to be from Infogrames and that he'll get you the patch early if you just paid him $200.

Andreiguy · November 7, 2001, 21:34

The best things infrogames could do right now: issue a general apology (preferably here) for its treatment of civers and forced early release and offer a FREE patch (w/ multiplayer and a respectable editor, of course). Paying more money for an addon with more units, victories, etc. is acceptable, but throwing them more cash to get what we originally assumed they would put in is simply not right.

Somebody needs to get the message across to Infrogames that we aren't exactly an easy-to-please crowd

... much is expected of them!

Hans2 · November 7, 2001, 22:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Andreiguy
The best things infrogames could do right now: issue a general apology (preferably here) for its treatment of civers and forced early release and offer a FREE patch (w/ multiplayer and a respectable editor, of course). Paying more money for an addon with more units, victories, etc. is acceptable, but throwing them more cash to get what we originally assumed they would put in is simply not right.

Somebody needs to get the message across to Infrogames that we aren't exactly an easy-to-please crowd

... much is expected of them!

Naturaly they won't release an add-on pack that only provides multiplayer. They have to put extra things in there to justify it. This is always what happens, game y is released. Game y lacks a vital component that the fans really wanted. Manufacturer of game y makes excuses until they eventually release an add on pack. This add on pack includes above mentioned vital component. Fans go into an uproar. Manufacturer, however, points out that add on pack for game y contains other neat stuff too. Fans get duped, by add on pack.

If Infogrames is really dedicated to the Civ III fans, they will release a free patch that gives mulitplayer compatibility. I don't care if its 100mb, I'll wait 12 hours while my modem downloads it. They can still release the add on pack, naturally, with the perks like professional designed scenarios, etc.

BUT, here me now Infogrames for I believe I speak for most Civers on this issue, WE WILL NOT PAY FOR A COMPLETE SCENARIO EDITOR. WE WILL NOT PAY FOR MULTIPLAYER I know that it was announced weeks in advance that CivIII would not have multiplayer, but it was never announced that it would have a garbage map editor (for that's what it is, don't try to call it a scenario editor in its current state). Furthermore most people bought the game on the promise that Firaxis was working on something special for multiplayer. WE WILL NOT BE RIPPED OFF!!! If I have to wait 4 months for the add on pack to hit the bargain bin I will, but I will not pay more than $9.99 for it. This is if I pay for it at all.....

ChrisShaffer · November 7, 2001, 23:44

I dunno about "most" civvers. I'll pay for multiplayer. Not really interested in scenarios though.

Alexander's Horse · November 7, 2001, 23:50

I think the MP version will be better than the SP - I'm not paying for Sp so I'm happy to play for the MP.

Seeker · November 7, 2001, 23:50

I'll pay up to $20.00 for an expansion pack that has a complete, good editor that will make Scenarios like Red Front possible, and Historical Starts, as well as Multiplayer that includes Hot-Seat/PBEM.

I'll be insulted, think it's terribly uncraftsmanlike, and I'll feel like the male equivalent of a whore, but I know me....I'LL STILL DO IT.

The Unknown · November 8, 2001, 00:04

We need to come together on this one, people. If this report is true, that multiplayer is coming out in MARCH as a separate add-on pack that you have to PAY for, we need to do everything in our power to ensure infogrames (and firaxis?) pays for this insult. We can't let them get away with this.

I was assuming that the first patch (next week? two weeks at most, I thought) would contain multiplayer, and all other basic fixes necessary to the game. Yes, I said BASIC. Multiplayer isn't something you pay for these days Firaxis...it just isn't. What would happen if Warcraft 3 came out without multiplayer, and three months later they put out an add-on pack for it??? There would be riots in the streets, dammit. It's complete bullsh*t.

We need to e-mail and complain, call and complain, send them very long nasty letters, continually post on this board until they release it in patch form for free! That's what we deserve...why the hell would we spend our hard-earned dollars (in the midst of a recession, no less) for a game missing several BASIC, NECESSARY features? This is fraud, thieft of our money.

ANYONE WHO HASN'T BOUGHT THE GAME YET, DON'T!

AND FOR DAMN SURE, NO ONE BUY THE F*CKING ADD-ON!

If we all boycott Firaxis and Infogrames, we'll be successful and get the patch for free. If not....well...we'll have to live with the insult. Unless...

Piracy in this case would be morally acceptable, I think. One person needs to buy it and just put it up on the web, cracked. I used to have respect for Firaxis, and formerly would never have even thought about stealing Civ3. But, to pay for the add on would be Firaxis/Infogrames stealing from us. We need to show them that this just isn't acceptable.

aderen · November 8, 2001, 00:14

I totally agree.

Dida · November 8, 2001, 00:19

I totally agree.
What does Infograme and Firaxis have in mind when they think they could release a game with tons of bug, no MP for $50, and then offer to fix the bugs and MP for another big $$$?
They think we are idiots?

tmarcl · November 8, 2001, 00:24

Ok guys, it's time to take a deeeeeep breath, count to 9 million (backwards) and think about this.

First off, no one has said officially that you'll have to pay for multiplayer, so it's a little early to be jumping the gun and threatening to to boycott Firaxis and Infogrames.

Secondly you must remember this: Firaxis and Infogrames are businesses. They don't make profit giving things away for free (on that note: Thank you to both Soren and Dan for both coming by daily the past week with advice and assistance. As far as I'm concerned, that goes far above and beyond the call of duty, and you both deserve a round of applause.) No matter how much we want things handed to us, it just isn't going to happen. If Infogrames feels it'll make more money by charging us for multiplayer, then guess what, were going to pay (and we will, regardless of what we say now).

Thirdly: Yes, we do have some legitimate gripes, especially with the Limited Edition (I want my ten dollars back) and the scenario editor. But in the first place, there's not too much we can do (unless you got it at Electronics Boutique, and can return it within seven days after the game's been opened and get a full refund. Then, you can buy the regular version), and in the second, Firaxis has already said that they're working on a patch.

So far, Firaxis has done pretty well by us. Dan and Soren don't have to be coming by here like this every day, but they do, and that's a pretty good reason to trust them, in my opinion. Stop complaining about how things aren't how you wanted them, and be greatful that the two of them are willing to keep working on the game to give us what we want.

Marc

Alexander's Horse · November 8, 2001, 00:38

Forget about the Single player goobers - bring out multiplayer as a stand alone game with all the bugs fixed!

Ballz1998 · November 8, 2001, 00:49

I'm not sure how many of you are hard core gamers and how many of you are casual... by hardcore I mean to say that you follow gaming very close and know that people try to do dumb*** boycotts like this all the time. It never works, and I'm going to tell you why.

Even if everyone that posts on Apolyton returned their copy of Civ3, Infograms' profit wouldn't even be dented, proving that this is a great game.

You knew for a fact that when this game was released it didn't have multiplayer. And when you got the game from a "return friendly" store like EB, you saw that the editor was crap. After deciding Civ3 was not worth your money, you promptly returned the game. You did this because you realized that by keeping the game you are only saying, "This game is worth what I paid for it in its current condition." You people that are complaining about no multiplayer/crappy editor and an unfinished game DID return it right??? If not then you must be fairly content with your purchase?

It's worth the money to me, and alot of other people. And if I decide to play multiplayer Civ I'll buy the addon along with plenty of other people. Firaxis may be about making the best Civ ever, but Infogrames is about $$$. And believe it or not, they have people that figure out how many people will most likely buy a certain product in a certain condition. They time the release to maximize profit... October 30, just before the christmas shopping season. That way all the "serious" gamers can beta test the product for them so they can have the patch out by *gasp* Christmas morning. I don't like it, but I still buy hyped up games when they first come out... must be getting my money's worth.

dsteckel · November 8, 2001, 00:52

Well, this idiot shelled out $60 for the limited edition the day it came out. Usually I never buy a game before reading a review for it, but I bought Civ3 immediately because I loved Civs 1 and 2.

I would have no problem with them charging for a MP add-on as they've stated up front that MP is not in this release of Civ. However, they've taken their last dollar from me if they don't patch or elect to charge for the patch that fixes the bugs in this 1.07f release!

My List of Needed Fixes:

1) Fortresses--broken

2) Air Superiority--broken

3) Great Lighthouse allows uninhibited ocean movement

4) Captured city cultural revolutions 2 turns after capture

5) Corruption absolutely crippling

6) "REX"/"ICS" at newbie levels

7) AI Constant Trespass ("Borders? What borders?")

8) Moronic city governors

9) The Million Dollar bug

Fix the first 5 and I'll consider my $60 well spent. Fix them all, and I'll consider it the best $60 I ever spent (if you don't count that one time at the club...

).

My $0.02!

Dar Steckelberg

Mike4879 · November 8, 2001, 01:03

Quote:

Originally posted by The Unknown
We need to come together on this one, people. If this report is true, that multiplayer is coming out in MARCH as a separate add-on pack that you have to PAY for, we need to do everything in our power to ensure infogrames (and firaxis?) pays for this insult. We can't let them get away with this.

ANYONE WHO HASN'T BOUGHT THE GAME YET, DON'T!

AND FOR DAMN SURE, NO ONE BUY THE F*CKING ADD-ON!

I disagree. Yes, all of the hardcore civ fans are disappointed. But this is a company. These things happen. Sad but true. I won't go into how much crap the Ultima Online community has put up with broken promises like this, pretty much every other month. And then they find out they have to buy an expansion pack that is missing 1/2 of the features that were being promoted.

In the case of Civilization III, however, this game simply rocks. Even without the MP and scenarios, it is probably the best turn-based PC strategy game release to date. How do you expect them to pay for quality enhancements if they release it for free? Yes, there should be patches to fix gameplay issues, but not to add scenario support and multi-player. The development involved is just too much.

There is no mention of MP on the box, therefor, you get what you pay for. Civilization III is still a quality product, even though we can all imagine how great it would be with MP and scenarios. Sometimes a game comes around that is worth buying updates for, and this is one of them. Leave this banter for the games that have nothing but eyecandy. I will support any Civ3 addons Infogrames releases.

TCO · November 8, 2001, 01:16

All of you all whining about having to pay for MP sound like whiniey children (OK some of you are children!)

If you wait a while, you can buy the game with MP. Just decide if the wait is worth it...

Alexander's Horse · November 8, 2001, 01:18

Instead of all these spirited defences of capitalism why don't all those of this ilk just post "kick me again".

It would save a lot of verbiage.

orange · November 8, 2001, 01:39

I think up to $14.95 would be fair for an MP add on with expansion pack civs, fixed errors, and a completely redone editor ( VERY disappointed in the current one

)

I'm not going to pretend that I won't pay for the add on if it's more expensive, becasue most likely I will, but it'll be a damn shame and a real insult to civers everywhere...and most importantly, THE civers that have been giving you our undying support from the beginning

Do the right thing Firaxis

Alexander's Horse · November 8, 2001, 01:41

Hey Orange, you should have just posted "kick me again"

TCO · November 8, 2001, 01:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Hey Orange, you should have just posted "kick me again"

Ummm....yeah...a computer game that you can buy or not (I haven't) is being kicked....yeah....

Pyrodrew · November 8, 2001, 02:06

Quote:

3) Great Lighthouse allows uninhibited ocean movement

Even the Civilopedia states now the GreatLighthouse allows for safe sea/ocean travel. They did this on purpose because the Great Lighthouse *sucked* in Civ2. Now it's actually useful. Perhaps too good.

wervdon · November 8, 2001, 02:11

Id pay up to about 20-25 dollars for an x-pack that had multiplayer if it also reverted to civ2 style combat so I could actually predict if my musketman will lose to their warriors :P

I don't think any of us was under the impression we was buying a multiplayer game when we paid, its not exactly fair to demand one for free now.

Things I do expect to see for free though:
Fixed editor (btw is it slow for anyone else? It doesn't even scroll smoothly for me and im running a 900 mz athlon

Could be my video drivers though I guess)

An option is said editor to make bombardment (air and ground, hopefully seperately) lethal to units and ships.

Flat map options.

Fixed placement options.

Of course bug fixes

But I have no doubt at all we'll get those.

Id also like to see the city reversion/resistors changed to more like civ2 style with all the fanatics popping up out of no where. If they can actually take the city back then its theirs ;P That or just abstract it out so that theres a chance any turn there is a resistor that a unit in the city is killed (and you get notice) from riots or what not, and if there are no units left it defects.

In any case after playing the game for a full week those are my complaints, overall I think the good overshadows the bad, but it has a definate "unfinished" and "untested" feel to it. Which actually says alot for how good it is that its still so much fun despite being so obviously rushed.

If none of that gets fixed though, id say its definately no rival to civ 2. The combat aspect is clearly inferior by design IMO, though the diplomacy and culture are good. Can't compare it to SMAC cause I never got around to buying it.

Monoriu · November 8, 2001, 02:44

I don't understand why people are mad.

You knew from the start that civ 3 doesn't have multiplayer. They didn't lie to you. No one points a gun at you and force you to buy it. You purchased civ 3 knowing that it doesn't have multiplayer. You made the purchase decision yourself.

Now they offer a new product with multiplayer. Again, you can choose whether you like it or not. If you like it, buy it, if you don't like it, don't.

Where in the law does it say that games must have multiplayer included? Have they ever signed a contract that says civ 3 must have mp? Nope.

Its that simple.

If they say civ 3 has multiplayer and in the end it doesn't, that's fraud and its a different story. But that's not the case here.

Frugal_Gourmet · November 8, 2001, 03:08

Cool! I will definitely buy it.

TheBirdMan · November 8, 2001, 03:50

I'll pay the full price for a pack with MP (PBEM) - couse I have not buyed the SP game version. I can wait as I have my CTP-PBEM's and now some free on-line games on www.samugames.com (Artifact).

That game have some advantages:
No real limit for number of players - you join until you are defeated or some else win the game.
You can restart in the same game, normally up to 10 times.
You can join/make an alliance and give permissions to other to control your units/cities/building while you are away.
Your units can HIDE and make ambushes.

Also some disadvantages:
Artifact itself are very simple in gameplay, small number of unittypes and buildings. But it could COULD actually be fun, if that type of game was ported over to a CTP or CIV type game!

This has been discussed before here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=29353

MidKnight Lament · November 8, 2001, 03:50

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that just because they'll release MP is an add-on, they won't be doing any bug-fixing patches. I think it very unlikely. The add-on will be for bonus features like MP, that as a lot of people have pointed out, was made clear would not in Civ 3. But they'll take a good crack at fixing the bugs.

And I agree with whoever it was said that people try huge boycotts all the time and doesn't make (hardly) any difference at all.

LaRusso · November 8, 2001, 04:37

Also, please separate bugs from game design. Corruption IS manageable....why would I build Forbidden city if it were otherwise?