November 10, 2001, 10:35
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#1
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King
Local Time: 10:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Lost
Posts: 1,020
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The AI Flat out cheats.
Take a look at the save I attached...Watch the replay. I had the chinese cornered from the start, I take a city, and they build another the same turn. The captured city is assimilated, but I take it and the other city back the immediately afterwards. Then what happens??? Another city pops up at the bottom of the continent from NO WHERE!!! No settler, no nothing. Then, the very next turn, I have an Archer and a spearman coming at me. You know what happens next? ANOTHER CITY APPEARS!!!
This game is Normal map, Monarch, and random for the rest.
If anyone would like to see more saves, let me know
1625 BC- look here first.
1650 BC
1675 BC
1700 BC
1725 BC
Another interesting note is that after all this, they had a great deal more gold than they did before I took their cities.
__________________
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
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November 10, 2001, 11:25
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#2
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Prince
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of rambling for the uk
Posts: 308
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i dont have civ3 yet as i'm in ingland but want to get opions before i get it next week (or dont) so what is it the AI does?
__________________
Just my 2p.
Which is more than a 2 cents, about one cent more.
Which shows you learn something every day.
formerlyanon@hotmail.com
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November 10, 2001, 11:26
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#3
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Chieftain
Local Time: 17:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ÿÿÿÿ◘◘
Posts: 30
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Yes, it's called an early *something* which makes the AI-player get another free new city somewhere else on the continent, as well as 100 gold pieces.
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November 10, 2001, 11:30
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#4
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King
Local Time: 10:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Lost
Posts: 1,020
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but two cities? and then what about the units? There should be some way to disable that. Dead is Dead.
__________________
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
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November 10, 2001, 11:43
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#5
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Prince
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: NY
Posts: 970
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So this is some kind of cheat added to make the higher levels harder? I don't think I like it at all.
__________________
kmj
CCAE
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November 10, 2001, 11:57
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#6
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Settler
Local Time: 17:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 16
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This remembers me of NHL 00/01 by EA, where on higher difficulties the AI didn't got better, but they weakend your players and made the ai players faster, pass better and shoot more accurate, while your speed, pass acc. and shoot acc. went down.
Sometimes AI just stands for Artificial Idiot, and indeed needs cheating to beat a human counterpart.
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November 10, 2001, 12:07
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#7
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Settler
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 8
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It's not just at higher levels. I've seen this happen at chieftain, warlord, and regeant. In my past game (regeant), I killed the germans and the romans, and their cities appeared immediately following the capture of their last city.
It might be like the auto-restart was for early AI death in Civ2. Any speculation on the cut-off date? If it is a date?
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November 10, 2001, 12:14
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#8
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Prince
Local Time: 17:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 624
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Yeah the same thing happened in Civ2. They just get a second chance.
I guess the cut-off date is between 500BC and 1AD.
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November 10, 2001, 13:00
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#9
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Warlord
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 104
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No, the AI does not flat out cheat. If you kill a civilization early on they can be restarted. The same applies to you if you are killed early on. This feature was in Civilization 2 & Alpha Centaurii, and no-one complained then. In my opinion its a very good feature as it means that when I select 16 civilizations then for most of the game I will be playing against 16 civilizations, not 16 take away a few who got knocked out at the start.
__________________
Never underestimate the healing powers of custard.
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November 10, 2001, 14:07
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#10
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Settler
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 24
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Maybe the following happened:
1. Unit finds goodie hut.
2. Unit enters goodie hut and gets a settler.
3. Settler builds a city.
Though it sounds like the unit should not have existed to find a hut.
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November 10, 2001, 14:15
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#11
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Civilization IV Lead Designer
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 335
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If you eliminate a civ early in Civ3, they get restarted. Just like in Civ I and Civ II and SMAC.
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November 10, 2001, 14:23
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#12
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Settler
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 8
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That's what I figured... a little too easy in the very beginning to beat the hell out of your neighbors otherwise.
Or be beaten at the higher levels I suppose. :P
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November 10, 2001, 15:29
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#13
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Settler
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pittsburgh, PA...
Posts: 8
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Of course, in Civ2, you could turn this off...
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November 10, 2001, 16:41
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#14
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Emperor
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rechtsfahrgebot
Posts: 4,315
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after what date/turn # do the ai not get restarted? i wiped out the aztecs in 630bc on chieftain
__________________
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November 10, 2001, 17:02
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#15
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Prince
Local Time: 08:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 679
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Civs could always get restarted at ANY date. However, restarting & 1500 A.D. with 1 settler while you're trying to relearn the alphabet greatly slims that civs odds of winning. I also think this is a GREAT feature. Although as far as options that was my 1 expectation for Civ3... that it would have more options than Civ2 did... but right now it has less.
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November 10, 2001, 22:43
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#16
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King
Local Time: 10:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Lost
Posts: 1,020
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Quote:
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If you eliminate a civ early in Civ3, they get restarted. Just like in Civ I and Civ II and SMAC.
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I don't think it is just like civ2, et al. In civ2, a different civ got restarted. Here the same civ gets restarted, with all of it's techs, 100 extra gold, and extremely fast production if not free units.
__________________
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
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November 10, 2001, 23:32
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#17
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Prince
Local Time: 10:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, United States of America
Posts: 359
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In SMAC (and, iirc in Civ2) they restarted with half the technologies of the leading player and bonus units based on opposing army sizes. There was actually a strategy in SMAC of destroying your initial colony pod which would usually cause a restart with two colony pods.
I think that this is just fine - would you really want the restarted civ to be so far behind they don't have a chance?
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November 11, 2001, 00:03
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#18
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Warlord
Local Time: 08:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 279
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all this talk of AI cheating has reminded me of a game i played on a huge map where i sent some scouts out on top of mountains by my neighboring civs. i watched the AI, not once, but repeatedly build improvements INSTANTLY with NO workers. i mean i let my scout there, end my turn, and watch as the AI starts taking its turn, and all of a sudden a road and a mine will both appear in a tile by their city yet they have no workers there at all.
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November 11, 2001, 02:22
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#19
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Settler
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 11
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I also saw a wooden ship (Caravel or Galleon) instantly change into an Ironclad. It was traveling near my shore just looking around and on one turn the wooden ship disappeared and an Ironclad was there, I guess the AI discovered Steam on that turn.
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November 11, 2001, 02:45
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#20
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Chieftain
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 81
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November 11, 2001, 02:51
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#21
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King
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Hidden within an infantile Ikea fortress
Posts: 1,054
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Soren, if you could peg the blame on one member of the civ team for how cheaply made this game is, who would it be?
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November 11, 2001, 03:10
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#22
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Settler
Local Time: 16:27
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 20
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On thing I found with the AI was that it always seems to be one or two techs ahead of me.
The reason for this seems to be the unbalanced trading the AI does. It will make even trades with other AI civs but with the human player, demands twice the amount of tech/gold/resorces.
Not only does this give the AI players a huge advantage.. it also ruins the "trading subgame".
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